• @[email protected]
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    356 months ago

    Many reasons. One major factor imho is the belief or illusion to be living in a meritocracy. Which would mean, that someone who’s rich has to have earned it and therefore criticism must stem from envy or jealousy. The same belief fuels the ideology of thinking of poor people to just be lazy leeches on society.

    • @[email protected]
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      6 months ago

      The idea of meritocracy is such a bullshit lie it’s laughable. We need it so our children don’t live in a world without hope but much like santa claus they should shed the idea around the time of college. There are merit based reward systems. Ladder climbing is real. Only, many of them are corrupted by politics and mismanagement. Even if you succeed in an isolated merit based system it’s only to incentivize more production and you will never reach the level of CEO or what ever.

      What we should teach young adults is that life is a lottery inside a lottery inside a lottery. Success is about increasing your odds by taking as many smart bets as you can. Bets where the reward is great and where you don’t have much at stake if you lose. Betting with other people’s money is the most efficient way of extracting value. The meritocracy isn’t real, so neither is the morals around it. If you want nothing but an easy life this is how you do it. If your can’t in good conscious gamble with other people’s livelihoods we will see you on the ladder.

  • @[email protected]
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    96 months ago

    I think the “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” idea is overstated, most people I interact with have a somewhat negative outlook on the economy and their future wealth.

    I think the real issue is that no viable alternative is presented to most people.

    The alternatives presented are Russian-style authoritarian oligarchy, Islamofascism, or a Venezuela-style “socialism” in which the narrative only focuses on poverty.

  • @[email protected]
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    26 months ago

    Lack of good examples of countries that are successful without being capitalist?

    Pretty ubiquitously non-capitalist countries have a pretty poor track record.

    I often hear the phrase, capitalism is terrible, but it’s the least bad of the terrible options.

    As an aside, I’m arguing here for capitalism, not billionaires. Supporting capitalism isn’t an endorsement of a complete lack of controls and safeguards.

    • Cowbee [he/they]
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      66 months ago

      Lack of good examples of countries that are successful without being capitalist?

      There are many. The USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc. Have all drastically improved on previous conditions, achieving large increases in life expectancy, democratization, literacy rates, access to healthcare, housing, education, and more. Read Blackshirts and Reds.

      Pretty ubiquitously non-capitalist countries have a pretty poor track record.

      This is false. What are you specifically tracking? Freedom for the bourgeoisie?

      I often hear the phrase, capitalism is terrible, but it’s the least bad of the terrible options.

      The phrase is typically used to describe democracy, not Capitalism.

      As an aside, I’m arguing here for capitalism, not billionaires. Supporting capitalism isn’t an endorsement of a complete lack of controls and safeguards.

      It doesn’t matter what you support, the Superstructure, ie laws and safeguards, comes primarily from the Base, ie the Mode of Production.

      Markets move themselves regardless of people’s will towards centralized syndicates, monopolies over production. These make themselves ripe for siezure and central planning, markets themselves prepare the proletariat for running a socialized economy as they coalesce over time. This is why Marx says the bourgeoisie produces “above all else, its own gravediggers.” There is no maintaining Capitalism, it eliminates itself over time.

      • sunzu2
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        26 months ago

        USSR starved ethnic minorities to industrialize. How is this success? or is that the price you can accept?

        • Cowbee [he/they]
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          66 months ago

          I’m confused, do you think the USSR’s economy was powered by starvation of ethnic minorities, and through this magic starvation power industrialization could occur? What point are you trying to make?

          • sunzu2
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            46 months ago

            I cant tell if this for real…

            But so we are clear… USSR had undesirable minority farmers who didn’t like collectivization.

            They need hard currency to buy tooling and equipment to industrialize.

            They took all crops from these farmers, sold it on International markets and kicked industrialization into high gear…

            Millions died. So yes USSR industrial at expense of millions of lives. I don’t think there is much dispute here.

            • Cowbee [he/they]
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              6 months ago

              Do you think Kulaks were an ethnicity, and not a bourgeois class? Collectivization of agriculture was poorly done, yes, but it wasn’t what powered industrialization. This is a misanalysis of the USSR.

              • sunzu2
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                36 months ago

                Weren’t they ukrainian?

                I don’t think kazakhs were ever called kulaks, not sure tho

                Collectivization of agriculture was poorly done,

                And here comes genocide apologia … Again

                • Cowbee [he/they]
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                  6 months ago

                  You’re conflating disparate factors. Ukraine was the breadbasket of the USSR, that doesn’t mean there was a targeted famine towards them.

                  Kulaks were a group of bourgeois farmers that opposed collectivization. Many of these Kulaks burned their own crops and killed their livestock to avoid handing it over to the Red Army and the Communists.

                  The famine in Ukraine and parts of Russia was a separate but linked matter. The Kulak resistance to collectivization was multiplied by drought, flood, and pests, making an already low harvest spiral into crisis. The idea that it was an intentional famine and therefore a genocide actually originated in Volkischer Beobatcher, a Nazi news outlet, before spreading to the west. It isn’t “genocide apologia,” it was a horrible tragedy caused by a combination of human and environmental factors.

  • @[email protected]
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    26 months ago

    because the idea of being super rich is awesome and i want to be super rich. so much bills i wouldnt have a thought about 😂

  • @[email protected]
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    6 months ago

    We’re raised by parents that must be obeyed for our own safety. Some people eventually learn to accept their parents are imperfect people and not gods. Many people do not. They look to kings and gods to protect and provide for them.

    Those that have power negotiate with kings and gods. People without power attempt to use the only techniques they know to negotiate with their kings and gods: begging and/or pledging loyalty and service in exchange for scraps.

    Of course this is but one of many reasons many people worship power.

  • FiveMacs
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    916 months ago

    I assume they think they will be able to achieve the same status in the game that’s designed to literally oppress them and make them think they are cared by the billionaires.

    • @[email protected]
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      336 months ago

      It’s the American dream. What is the quote? We’re all embarrassed potential millionaires?

      • massive_bereavement
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        286 months ago

        That’s why the “hustling culture” is so important and prevalent in our society right now.
        Everyone “knows” someone that made bank with either youtube, selling some pyramid-scheme product, bitcoins, some collectibles, craft beer, lottery… you name it.

        Social media (and before that was TV) is selling us the idea that there’s a shortcut to becoming rich, you just need to find it, hustle, and you will become one of the rich persons.

        That’s also why there’s so much cult of wealth and billionaires.

        That said, a large portion of Millennials and after them have a rather negative view of billionaires and are rather skeptical of becoming rich, or even becoming home owners.

    • @[email protected]
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      6 months ago

      This has been studied, and the ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaires’ idea is actually wrong.

      The real reason is because some people (especially conservatives, because it’s a core part of conservative ideology) believe that in order for society to work, a hierarchy must be maintained wherein the ‘deserving’ are at the top, and everyone else is in their rightful place. Any threat to the natural hierarchy will undo the societal order and bring chaos and carnage.

      This is why Obama becoming president was such an affront – because his presence outside his ‘rightful place’ was an existential threat to the natural order.

      This belief has its roots way back when feudalism began to fail and the moneyed classes needed to find a new way to retain their power – both capitalism and conservatism were born at that time, with ideologies shifting from birthright to ‘earned’ status, which enshrined the haves and have-nots into literally sacred structures of meritocracy and social darwinism, and colonialists specifically fostered strict adherence to the social order. It became ingrained culturally that adhering to your station, whatever it is, is crucial for society to function. That there’s honour in being a cog in the machine, and that not accepting your lot in life is a danger to everyone. (eta: this is mostly subconscious, but you can see it if you ask ‘why’ enough times of someone who idolises Musk, for example. You’ll eventually whittle them down to these themes.)

      That’s a nutshell view of a complicated topic, but these people don’t believe they’ll strike gold one day. They believe people who are rich deserve to be treated as kings, for the same reason monarchist peasants did.

        • @[email protected]
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          6 months ago

          One place to start is this article from the Stanford Encyclopaedia on Philosophy: Conservatism.

          It’s a lengthy read, but enlightening.

          One highlight from the summary:

          Most commentators regard conservatism as a modern political philosophy, even though it exhibits the standpoint of paternalism or authority, rather than freedom. As John Gray writes, while liberalism is the dominant political theory of the modern age, conservatism, despite appealing to tradition, is also a response to the challenges of modernity. The roots of all three standpoints “may be traced back to the crises of seventeenth-century England, but [they] crystallised into definite traditions of thought and practice only [after] the French Revolution” (Gray 1995: 78)

          eta: It’s worth noting that societies worldwide often see a resurgence in conservatism in response to social change, crises, and civil rights movements, which are without fail a fear response to threats to the social hierarchy. We can see this in real time.

  • @[email protected]
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    96 months ago

    Lack of successful alternatives? It’s easy to find flaws with capitalism but every other system has its share of problems too.

    • Cowbee [he/they]
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      86 months ago

      Socialism is the successful successor to Capitalism. Socialism isn’t an idea you implement, but a consequence of markets coalescing into monopolist syndicates that make themselves ripe for public ownership and planning.

        • sunzu2
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          36 months ago

          Marx has the best content on the topic, shit is so good it triggers daddy owners to this day lol

            • sunzu2
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              36 months ago

              I would not say I like some dead guy… But his work is foundational for any self respecting adult imho

              With out Understanding these concepts you are ain’t fucking operating

              Also, elites study him closely and a lot of the regime behavior is actually designed to suppress workers based on his writings.

              Ohh the irony.

        • Cowbee [he/they]
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          76 months ago

          What do you disagree with here? The idea that markets trend towards monopolist syndicates, naturally centralizing production? Or the idea that the Proletariat should sieze these syndicates and plan production democratically and centrally?

          • @[email protected]
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            16 months ago

            I’m not really disagreeing with you to be honest. I’m only saying that your views are the central idea of Marxism. Only Marxists believe in the conflict theory. I’m not a Marxist, but i do think socialism is the next most likely economic stage considering the current capitalist landscape. Whether it is the best path is what i don’t know.

            • Cowbee [he/they]
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              76 months ago

              I’m a Marxist-Leninist, correct, but the point of Marxism is that it doesn’t matter what individuals believe, Capitalism itself paves the way for Socialism just like Feudalism paved the way for Capitalism.

              • @[email protected]
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                36 months ago

                Hmm i don’t know about that. Saying that this one theory explains social change is kinda restrictive. There are other valid ideas that aren’t the conflict theory that might also result in social change. Think of idealist theories such as Hegel’s dialectical process which involves a thesis and antithesis. These theses eventually contradict each other to form a synthesis which eventually becomes its own thesis and vice versa.

                I just like to keep an open mind about this stuff, as i don’t think social change boils down to just one theory.

                • @[email protected]
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                  6 months ago

                  I find this reply very strange because it’s the core point of Marxism that it’s dialectical but materialist. It has a lot of forebears, but Hegel is the most direct and obvious of them.

                  This new German philosophy culminated in the Hegelian system. In this system — and herein is its great merit — for the first time the whole world, natural, historical, intellectual, is represented as a process — i.e., as in constant motion, change, transformation, development; and the attempt is made to trace out the internal connection that makes a continuous whole of all this movement and development. From this point of view, the history of mankind no longer appeared as a wild whirl of senseless deeds of violence, all equally condemnable at the judgment seat of mature philosophic reason and which are best forgotten as quickly as possible, but as the process of evolution of man himself. It was now the task of the intellect to follow the gradual march of this process through all its devious ways, and to trace out the inner law running through all its apparently accidental phenomena.

                  That the Hegelian system did not solve the problem it propounded is here immaterial. Its epoch-making merit was that it propounded the problem. This problem is one that no single individual will ever be able to solve. Although Hegel was — with Saint-Simon — the most encyclopaedic mind of his time, yet he was limited, first, by the necessary limited extent of his own knowledge and, second, by the limited extent and depth of the knowledge and conceptions of his age. To these limits, a third must be added; Hegel was an idealist. To him, the thoughts within his brain were not the more or less abstract pictures of actual things and processes, but, conversely, things and their evolution were only the realized pictures of the “Idea”, existing somewhere from eternity before the world was. This way of thinking turned everything upside down, and completely reversed the actual connection of things in the world. Correctly and ingeniously as many groups of facts were grasped by Hegel, yet, for the reasons just given, there is much that is botched, artificial, labored, in a word, wrong in point of detail. The Hegelian system, in itself, was a colossal miscarriage — but it was also the last of its kind.

                  It was suffering, in fact, from an internal and incurable contradiction. Upon the one hand, its essential proposition was the conception that human history is a process of evolution, which, by its very nature, cannot find its intellectual final term in the discovery of any so-called absolute truth. But, on the other hand, it laid claim to being the very essence of this absolute truth. A system of natural and historical knowledge, embracing everything, and final for all time, is a contradiction to the fundamental law of dialectic reasoning.

                  – Engels, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific

                  i don’t think social change boils down to just one theory.

                  If we believe that the universe fundamentally makes sense, then it must stem from that that it can all be explained on the same terms. Furthermore, within a domain, the extent to which a theory is unable to explain some part of that domain is the extent to which it either fails or is in-utero just a component of a larger theory whose other parts can cover those other areas. Not only can social change boil down to one theory, if you believe we live in an interconnected, logical world, it must boil down to one theory. Obviously there are many competitors for that title, and none of them are yet developed enough to properly claim it, but it is a legitimate and even a necessary title.

                  Edit: Sorry for piling on about the dialectics part, I see Cowbee did go over it later. fwiw I think he didn’t represent materialism fairly, but part of why I included the Engels quote is because I think he does represent Hegelian idealism and its fundamental problem (How can this dialectic of humans – material beings – take place in the world of ideas?) fairly.

    • @[email protected]
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      16 months ago

      People will find ways to accrue wealth and power even if you change the rules of the game. Sometimes people on this platform make it sound like socialism or communism can solve our problems. but it’s not that simple.

      • Cowbee [he/they]
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        56 months ago

        You’re right, Marxists don’t describe a Utopia but the natural progression of the Mode of Production.

  • @[email protected]
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    206 months ago

    Unfortunately many of us have been taught that being a good person and a good citizen equals being productive and accumulating resources. Things that are quantifiable and external to the actual person and their relationships.

    Being productive and accumulating some resources can be good activities to spend time on, but they are practical necessities and not defining characteristics of existence.

  • @[email protected]
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    6 months ago

    temporarily embarrassed billionaires

    Richard Nixon’s head : I promise to cut taxes for the rich and use the poor as a cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel!

    [audience applauds]

    Philip J. Fry : That’ll show those poor!

    Turanga Leela : You’re not rich!

    Philip J. Fry : But someday I might be rich, and people like me better watch their step