More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful
Okay, but how many are leftists?
As a Transfem, it’s because conservatives suck (granted I despise all forms of liberalism).
Also why the hell is liberalism considered “left-wing” its center right at most.
The people who process these data have limited vocabulary or need to speak to those who do.
Political education in the US and many of the countries that hold these polls is awful. I’d trust a middle-schooler from Cuba, Vietnam, or China more than an ivy-league-educated polysci graduate when it comes to political awareness.
Generally, a supporter of the political philosophy liberalism. Liberals may be politically left or right but tend to be centrist.
Liberalism supports capitalism, nothing about it is left wing. Hell even Social Liberalism isn’t left wing.
It sounds like you’re thinking of Libertarianism which is a subset of liberalism, but they are distinct.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and often mutually warring views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion. Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
“private property”
Yeah, not left wing.
One thing not left wing and it’s all right wing? Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Liberalism supports capitalism and private property, thats not left wing. Leftism isnt “when government does stuff”, its worker owned economies and true progress (no unions dont count as a worker owned economy). There are centrist ideologies which aren’t strictly speaking left or right like Social Democracy and Georgism but Liberalism isn’t in that category.
Did you just say conservatism is a form of liberalism?
In the United States the Republicans follow a form of Liberalism, Libertarians a form of Classical Liberalism, and Democrats a form a Neoliberalism.
Is this related to differences in prefrontal cortex maturity rates in young adults?
The good news is that almost universally, women vote in greater numbers than me. So on average its still breaking to the left.
I HATE THE LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE DICHOTOMY
I HATE THE LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE DICHOTOMY
I wonder if progressive/conservative is what the charts are getting at. Heck, I wonder if we could even put it in terms of Welzel’s Democratic/protection values.
A better voting system than First Past The Post is proven to create less of a divide between parties and supports either new parties forming, making existing parties more likely to work together on bi-partisan goals, as well as bringing existing parties more towards the center.
So how does corporate oligarchy and unlimited dark money from corporate pacs fit into all this?
Cable news never really mentions campaign contributions so I guess it’s not newsworthy.
Nevermind
He’s a Communist, liberalism is right-wing and he wants representation.
shit sucks which primes people for radicalization and The Algorithm basically pushes men to be chud shitheads (which doesn’t really work for women because who is going to listen to “become a baby machine” and think YEAH, BET)
You’d be surprised, until they encounter what that actually means and will mean for them specifically - some conservative women trick themselves into thinking they’ll be given an exemption. Or they really just don’t what it means until someone like Crowder is brow-beating them and not letting them leave
Then you get the women who hate ethnic minorities, foreigners, sex-positivity, other religions that aren’t their own denomination, and LGBTQ+ people more than they hate sexism. They will put up with misogynistic bullshit if it means they get to be racist and homophobic.
There’s probably more of the former, though. Like you say a lot of them trick themselves into “being the exception,” often because their partner is nice to them specifically.
A few folks have mentioned that these charts
- conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations
- does not include people who do not identify with one of those dominant parties
- have some somewhat unreliable stats magic behind them
A lot of young men in the US are reporting themselves as “not a Democrat or Republican”, and that’s causing a lot of this proportional shift. I would bet that characterizes a lot of folks on this site who are not conservative.
https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women
https://www.allendowney.com/blog/2024/01/28/is-the-ideology-gap-growing/
conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations
Why do so many people on Lemmy insist on pretending that liberal/conservative aren’t relative terms?
Every single time those words get used with their little l/c to mean "relatively liberal/conservative) I see multiple people go “well ackshully a Liberal is a right wing ideology!”
The actual opposite of conservative in this case would be progressive. Liberal isn’t a relative term, progressive is. It’s easy enough to tell from context but when there’s already no info on how these graphs came to be it just adds to them being questionable.
Those ‘unaffiliated’s are just embarrassed republicans. Just like most of the centrists you’ll run across.
Oh hell nah, I’m independent and I am definitely an embarassed left leaning voter
In the UK, where there actually is a centralist party, most of the “centralists” don’t actually vote for them. Which really tells you everything you need to know about centralism. It’s not a political ideology, it’s just a refusal to engage.
Exactly. I would be almost as upset with being classified as a liberal or a Democrat as I would be a conservative.
At the same time I know many people (my brother included) that claim to be “independent” because they think that the trump camp is somehow outside the conservative camp, and therefore respond “independent” on polls. Because they think “I’m not democrat or conservative, I just want to drain the swamp” and then support trump, who is literally a swamp.
I get classified as all three depending on who I’m talking to.
That’s because when talking to tribalist types, you’re seen as either with them or against them and in a system with 2 political parties “against them” means “supporting the other guys”.
There is no independent thinking amongst the “party supporter” masses, only following and parroting of the party messages, so the idea of somebody being a genuinely independent thinker guided by personal principles rather than following some tribe or other is anathema to them.
On the flip side, in Europe extreme right parties are mostly being propped up by young men, while in other age groups men and women vote relatively similarly, which supports this finding.
Edit: read Jane Jacobs system of survival
This is your brain on idealism, just pure vibes. Political astrology.
Have you read it? Don’t judge too quickly!Actually on second thought nvm. If that’s you’re response then I’m out :)
No, but like… dude, you could flip half of those supposed traits between categories and it would read exactly the same. That’s why I called it astrology.
Perhaps you just did a bad job of presenting the book’s ideas, but I’ve just read through a summary of it and it didn’t exactly make me reconsider my knee jerk reaction.
Thanks for explaining. I did a bad job explaining it, but I’m only taking a short break irl and am just jumping into this conversation. I’ve removed that section of my comment.
The book explains this in more detail and I recommend it. We don’t get much deep discussion into what it means to be conservative/liberal and the purpose of the book isn’t to go into that but it does provide a framework. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs
But now your comment is just “here’s 10 hour read that explains everything, I will not elaborate” like in this post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/26206134
You can at least leave info about what it should explain, at best you can summarise, but it is possible that you will not persuade people to read that.
From the wiki page, it looks like the idea behind the book is viable, but nothing is scientific about it, no research, no further developments, it’s just how the author sees the system work. This may be insightful but should be taken with a large grain of salt
Why?
And no way the UK is left leaning like that.
Anyone wanna take bets that the datatrend will change once we have fully functional Gynoids?
We won’t. The desire is to be connected to a real living woman. Toys can’t get sophisticated enough to make you believe what you prematurely know to not be true.
Yeah that’s what meant by fully “functional”. We already see it with people purchasing sex dolls and even the AI powered ones that have conversations. If a AI dolls is indistinguishable or at least good enough from a human female I bet we will see a change as the populous is satisfied.
Why won’t anyone date me?
Prolly because you are poor
In more categories than one. Could you be more specific?
Financial and emotional… The order depends on the counterparty’s preference
You were correct before you even answered
I wonder why Dessalines is posting this sort of stupid charts
What’s the source? I wanna learn about the weird unexpected drops in some countries.
For anyone else also interested, I went and had a look at the links Dessalines kindly provided.
The source on the graphs says “Sources: Daniel Cox, Survey Center on American Life; Gallup Poll Social Series; FT analysis of General Social Surveys of Korea, Germany & US and the British Election Study. US data is respondent’s stated ideology. Other countries show support for liberal and conservative parties All figures are adjusted for time trend in the overall population.” Where FT is financial times.
It’s not clear how the words “liberal” and “conservative” were chosen, whether they’re intended to mean “socially progressive” and “socially traditional” or have other connotations bound with the political parties too, and whether the original data chose those descriptions or if they’re FT’s inference as being “close enough” for an American audience.
Unfortunately the FT data site is refusing to let me look at them without “legitimate interest” advertising cookies so I can’t tell you much more or if there’s any detail on methodology.
It’s weird that the axes of where “centre” is remain stable over time. Can you imagine comparing “left vs right” between the 1890s and the 1920s? Like a bunch of stuff happened in between, history happened, and that tends to redefine left, right and centre.
Great observation! This is called the Overton Window
Canada is so fucked. I understand the fatigue with Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but if PP wins it truly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
We deserve whatever comes from the next election. A person is smart. People are dumb.
Halp!!!
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
Yet, they’ll vote conservative, not realizing this.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
Rather than buying “fuck Trudeau” stickers and flags to put on their oversized pickup trucks, maybe voters should learn how our government is structured.
I highly doubt most of the “fuck Trudeau” sticker people have no clue what he has or hasn’t done. They just hate him because he’s on the other team.
On a side note I don’t think I’ve ever seen the sticker NOT on a giant truck.
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
I strongly disagree and anecdotally the sentiment plays out.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
You’re also ignoring the litany of bullshit the Liberals have fumbled during their time in office as well as the multiple very public scandals around what amounts to a very publicly perceived “not giving a shit about Canadians”.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
They are everyone’s responsibility don’t try to pass the buck. The Fed’s have an obligation just as much as provincial and municipal.
As someone who leans left and has voted Liberal on multiple occasions making it out like they’re the victim is complete and utter bullshit.
Those letters mean absolutely nothing to me
The colors are also meaningless as well since there was no global definition of each color means respective to political leanings. So it’s basically a meaningless picture. At least the OP graphic (while it has some pretty big problems) tells you which is left and which is right.
They’re Canadian political parties.
Yeah I got that from context but I wouldn’t just dump a UK political chart on everyone and expect them to be able to understand it not least because the colors all opposite to what you would expect from a US centric point of view
Red is liberal blue is conservative
Canadian politics: red, Liberal party (center); blue, Conservative party (right); orange, New Democrat party (left); green, Green party (was kinda conservative, then had a meltdown around identity politics); BQ are kind of French separatists.
Here you see the chinese meddling in other countries’ politics. The canadians are so brainwashed by the chinese that in canadian elections they vote for the Communist Party of China!
Sauce, for those interested - https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
In the US, Gallup data shows that after decades where the sexes were each spread roughly equally across liberal and conservative world views, women aged 18 to 30 are now 30 percentage points more liberal than their male contemporaries. That gap took just six years to open up.
So it might be worth taking it with a pinch of salt because I’m betting it’s using the very dumbed down “liberal vs conservative” 'murican political view. Maybe skew all results down 3-6 points.
I believe that a significant factor for this can be attributed to mental development and maturity of boys lagging behind that of girls of the same age, during formative years. And, please read on, if you assume my argument is “boys dumb, conservatives dumb. Q.E.D.”
The second factor is an education system where this offset in mental development/maturity is further confounded. Boys don’t typically do as well, because sitting idle and being a “good boy”, is more challenging. This leads to a path for boys to start working earlier, while girls get higher degrees. (I assume the trends for higher education by gender, to be similar, if not, then that can falsify this hypothesis).
What a person then observes they get from society, vs what you pay in terms of taxes, is skewed between these two groups, and highly correlated with gender.
If this hypothesis has any validity to to it, then one could argue that a way to mitigate this is by correcting the negative causes. Where the fundamental root cause might be improved by revisiting how education is failing boys in particular.
The challenge with this is that if the conservative parties’ policies are driven by what can make more people vote conservative, then this will be a negative feedback loop. The worse you make it for a certain group of people that vote for you, the more that group is willing to vote for you.
I think the issue is simpler, in that the traditionally dominant group statistically reacts negatively to the levelling of the field and their loss of control and power over the other group. This and the fact that it’s statistically harder to see the oppression and feel for it when you are not affected by it(and this goes for every form of oppression).
Ok, then this would mean older women would be skewing further liberal, not younger women who don’t have any life experience to have seen anything change in these ways.
