I’m talking specifically about obeying the speed limit, doing a full stop at stop signs, etc. After receiving a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 50, As an experiment I went a full day obeying all traffic laws 100% and it caused so much road rage. For example, there is a 2 lane road near me with a speed limit of 50 (where I got the ticket), traffic usually moves at about 60/65. There was a huge line of cars behind me and nowhere to pull over. As soon as an opening came up on the shoulder I was about to pull over and one of the cars behind me blew past me on the on the right blaring their horn. Then another truck passed me at the next opportunity and brake checked me. Both of these cars proceeded to run a red light about 1/4 mile ahead of me endangering others. By far the worst part of driving on this 2 lane road was the 25 mph work zone which is completely ignored by everyone else. It effectively resulted in me doing 25 mph in a “60” which is very dangerous.
Having needed to spend the entire day pulling over at every opportunity to let people pass I inevitably picked up a drill bit and got a flat tire.
Even matters as simple as stopping completely at a stop sign for 1 second cause immediate anger and dangerous behavior from other drivers.
What on earth are we expected to do? All I want is to avoid speeding tickets and drive safely.
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WTF are you talking about, I e stopped at every stop sign for 30 years. This is all in your head. And complete fiction.
You do? To be frank, I rarely do unless I’m unfamiliar with the intersection, and neither do 95% of the other people I see on the road. I live in the US.
Exactly. Especially this complaint about stop signs. That’s not something that a normal motorist would encounter during a normal day of driving. If you ever happen to encounter a stop sign, as rare as they are, and feel that you then can’t spend a minute to make a proper stop there then the real problem certainly must be in your mind.
Not sure where you live but in America stop signs are everywhere. You can’t go anywhere without hitting multiple.
American residential streets often have stop signs at every intersection
I think it depends largely on where you live. There’s a reason it’s called the “California Stop.” And arpund Boston, the shoulder is a completely additional, auxiliary lane, which so. many. people. use.
There’s a funny video where a group of people got on the Atlanta 285 loop, spread out across all lanes, and did the speed limit for a few miles. They had a camera set up on an overpass to watch the procession come around a curve. They say they did it to show how stupid the speed limit on the loop was, and I’m sure it was infuriating for the miles of cars backed up behind them, but… yeah. It showed few people there obeyed the speed limit. I don’t know if this is the original; I don’t remember it being edited by a spastic gerbil, but that’s what I could find before I lost interest.
Getting a ticket for going 3 over is silly. That part does seem contrived, and if contested OP could easily get that thrown out. I suspect either OP was being a douche in some other way, and the cop put something down to harrass them, or they dropped a “0” in the retelling.
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The last ticket I got was from parking within 15 feet of a fire hydrant. There’s no sign or marker indicating where 15 feet is, so I had to basically eyeball it and hope that I was far enough from the hydrant. Yeah, that’s one that’s almost impossible to practically obey.
My wife once got a ticket in Boston for an expired meter. The meter was labeled as being in effect until 6pm. The ticket was issued at around 6:30.
When she went to fight it the traffic judge was adamant that she should know all meters in the city are enforced until 8pm. He let it go but warned her not to do it again.
A few weeks later she ran into one of the parking enforcement people who said that they know a handful of meters are labeled wrong, but despite reporting them nothing ever happens. He said they do try to be lenient and ignore cars parked in those spots between 6pm and 8pm but sometimes they’re just so frazzled from the day that they forget…
I do it when I have to drive. If people get angry that’s their problem.
It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Welcome to the real world.
I also follow traffic laws. People often rage at me completely unprovoked, and I’ve been in more collisions than I can count.
What matters is you are not responsible for the actions of others. Yes driving 60 in a 25 is incredibly dangerous. See what happens when you slam on the brakes for the work zone sign, it’s absurd.
But it’s not our job to police that. The best we can do is follow the law, try to avoid the idiots, and collect the insurance money when they do hit us and move on.
Have you tried following traffic laws in GTA games? That is insane indeed.
It’s plenty easy, but it’s not as if I give enough of a damn about them to actually follow traffic laws unless there’s a cop there
You should obey the basic rules such as speed limits, stopping for red light, etc. Driving faster is associated with higher rate of road fatalities.
The real solution is that our society must abolish the reliance on cars. We should opt for safer modes of transportation that do not make it necessary for us to trust every random person to have the patience and skill for operating a car that can kill people so easily.
The Fuck Cars community is so prevalent over here on Lemmy it’s crazy. I wonder why that is.
Btw you guys do you, no hate or whatever I just see this sentiment everywhere on other people’s posts.
I think it makes sense. Just think about what makes the average Reddit user interested in a platform like lemmy, and ask yourself if it makes sense that it correlates with fuck cars. I think it makes sense.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6611240-three-felonies-a-day
It’s a feature, not a bug.
Your not expected to obey all laws all the time, its a tool in the toolbox for selective enforcement punishment, taxation.
Ironically, self driving cars will do more to make traffic laws more sensible, since the cars will OBEY every law, no matter how silly… and that will back up traffic until the law is fixed.
I’ve always thought that if you want to fix bad laws, go to the capital city where the law makers are and obey the law very carefully, such that the cost of obedience is paid by the lawmakers.
That looks like a pretty interesting book, will definitely give it a read.
I personally feel that speed limits, etc are actually quite reasonable given the average human’s response time, and the fact that impact force increases non-linearly with increased speed. I think the bulk of the problem is that so many drivers far over-estimate their driving abilities and are out of touch from the outside world being completely isolated in their cars. The fact stands that if you hit a pedestrian at 25 mph, they have a 75% chance of survival but at 35 mph it is 75% likely to be fatal. The 2-lane road in my original post has a lot of hikers, bicyclists, and even horseback riding not to mention the deer that regularly jump out in front of you. Efficiency of literally every car on the road goes up just by slowing down a bit, too. Don’t people like spending less on gas?
Funny you mention the self-driving car thing, I’m a tesla FSD beta tester and thats how I made sure to obey every limit and road rule to the T. It was the only way I could get through it since obeying the laws gave me so much anxiety I wanted to speed up at every chance. Using the FSD in real life, though it has a setting to always go x% over the posted speed limit. As if the word “limit” has lost any and all meaning in our society.
I think you would really enjoy reading about the strategies used in traffic engineering. Where they not only take into account the physics of driving, but the human psychology of drivers.
The highway manual indicates for new roads a traffic survey should be done and the 80% speed should be the traffic limit for the road (this doesn’t always happen). From a TE perspective you want the law to encourage everyone to work at the same flow.
For roads where drivers go to fast for the conditions, you can create visually hostile environments where drivers naturally slow down (not just speed limit signs, which most people ignore). I.E. add trees, break up sight lines, add curves and chicanes, making lanes more narrow, speed humps, REMOVE traffic markings (this forces people to pay more attention to figure out whats going on).
The highway manual manual is based off gut feelings and little else. Why 80%, where did that come from? How is the currently set speed limit impacting the survey? If you go to a speed trap town by the highway, you’d say the speed limit is dead on, as no one speeds since they know its a trap.
Roads should be designed for the speed you want, and not the other way around. Your last paragraph is dead on. Real solutions look like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc
The speed limits were set at 80% many years ago when driving a car at that speed felt a lot faster. Physics and impact forces haven’t changed since then though.
I think you can take that 53 mph to court. Thats way too close to be legit.
Yeah wtf, cops in socal don’t typically even bother unless you’re doing 15 over. Must have been desperate to hit their ticket quota
In most jurisdictions police can do you for even 1mph over. There are a number of things in their favour, as they’ll have multiple pieces of evidence (device readout + police statement minimum) against only you and your word. Some places will also give you a far worse outcome if you lose in court than if you just accept the ticket. At the very least you should talk to a lawyer first about how best to take it to court and the likelihood of winning.
End of the day, with the way car speedo’s over-read, for you to be doing 53 mph your needle would’ve been reading ~56, which is well over.
reddit post about possibly uncalibrated speed meters
It’s incorrect to think of most road laws as being in place for safety, instead recognize that it’s largely a tax by another name. It is never safe to drive 20mph below prevailing traffic, regardless of what the sign on the side of the road instructs.
To avoid fines, pay attention and try to avoid routes where there are often cops collecting a toll, especially during quieter times when you’re one of a smaller number of commuters (and more likely to be the sucker who gets pinged). If you’re white, congratulations, you’re way less likely to be the unlucky party who gets pinged.
deleted by creator
I’m going to remember this question next time I see one of those “BuT cYcLIsTs!” idiots.
Car drivers are the only group of people who can disregard the laws that govern them, risk the lives of everyone around them, and then cry that 1% of the time they get penalized for it.
In Germany, it’s against the law to not do a full stop at traffic signs. You will fail your driving test doing this and you’ll definitely get pulled over when you’re seen doing it.
American cops are a bit more lenient, but you will get penalized for it on the driving test.
It depends on the jurisdiction. Small towns will absolutely ticket you for a lack of a full stop.
In Argentina it’s against the law too. I have never seen anyone, ever, stop at a stop sign. At most people slow down a little more than usual. Not even cops stop at stop signs. But if you don’t stop in your driver test, they can theoretically deny your license. So this is definitely a regional thing.
Fwiw, I visited a lot of South American countries, and Argentina is one of the most respectful of traffic laws. But yeah, stop signs are merely a suggestion at best. People slow down way more in a “dangerous crossing” sign, than a stop sign.
Not even cops stop at stop signs.
You’re talking like if cops respect the laws they’re supposed to enforce.
In Brazil too, but we don’t ever get pulled over for that, so nobody really stops, just slows down and if they see someone coming they stop. I’ve seen cops running red lights just because there was no one crossing.
Same in the UK. But here most signs are ‘give way’ so there can be confusion when there’s an actual stop sign.
I think the UK has completely eliminated the US style stop sign. I haven’t seen one in years.
Well that sent me down a random Wikipedia dive.
In the United Kingdom, stop signs may only be placed at junctions with tramways or sites with severely restricted visibility.[30] Until 2016, each stop sign had to be individually approved by the Secretary of State for Transport.[31][32] This requirement was removed by the 2016 amendments to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions;[33][34] the responsibility for approving stop signs now lies with local authorities
I remember Tom Scott did a video about a really dangerous junction with one a few years ago. The road layout there has now been fixed so it’s not needed.
I’ve never seen one in the wild though.
Op is full of shit. I’ve stopped at every stop sign the entire time I’ve been driving and there’s never been any issue. This is a troll. Plain and simple.
I’ve been driving for about a decade and a half now, including a few years here and there working jobs with a lot of wheel time. Either pizza delivery or cable technician or driving around a box truck.
I have never gotten as much as a speeding ticket. I typically don’t speed more than 5~10 mph over the limit. If it’s a 35 or 40 in a city area though I will typically stay the speed limit. Sometimes I go a little ham on country roads in the middle of nowhere. I drove through central Florida once at like 4am and I peaked at like 120mph because I hadn’t seen another car for at least an hour.
I think it probably depends on your jurisdiction, but nobody really respects the laws. On the interstate near my house, the speed limit is 65 but it might as well be 80. Cops will pass you and people will pass the cops and nobody cares.
I think the speeding laws are just to give the cops a reason to pull you over if they want you - OR a way to get people that are really being crazy. For example if you’re going 110 in a 65 you deserve to get pulled over and given a ticket or worse, depending on context.
I think it probably depends on your jurisdiction
This is the real answer. There’s a town near me that used to be training grounds for new sheriff’s deputies. The accepted rule was to never deviate by even 1mph there. I recently heard that training doesn’t happen there anymore, but I’m not willing to risk it unless I’m in the middle of a bunch of other cars that are also going above the limit so I don’t stand out.
Speed limits are one of the many transportation issues that have been researched with findings that the US has ignored and the EU has implemented.
Drivers go at the speed they’re comfortable with regardless of any posted speed limits. They dont work. What does work is road design to make it uncomfortable to go faster. Narrower lanes, less vision on intersections, raised crosswalks, among other things.
I don’t think most of the EU really did anything about speed limits
I dont know about how widespread it is, but yeah EU has been doing what Im talking about https://www.pps.org/article/livememtraffic
Speed radars+ removing driver licences if too many infractions?
Not perfect, but a step in the right direction
We absolutely need a points system in this country. Dui, lose your license AND your car for a month. Hit a pedestrian, come see us in 5 years.
I know these harsh consequences can be even harder in the US than Europe, but as someone who has never been able to drive I know it’s not a life ender to lose the privilege for a short time. It’s worth the grief to get people taking it more seriously.
It can be a life ender depending on where you live. My wife doesn’t drive and my last house I stayed was 30 minutes from the closest town. Uber can get me home if I am ok with waiting for an hour and a half for a driver to take up my ride request but they won’t even let me put in a request to get from my home to that town. I would have been fucked if I lost my license or car since my wife’s and I no longer have families in our lives and our neighbors all had issues with my wife for being black so it’s not like we could just ask for rides.
I’m curious. Are you located in a city center with decent, or even just existing public transit? I’m in Canada, not even 1h outside the nearest large city. Public transit is basically non-existent, so no car means I’d have to move much closer to downtown (and pay twice the rent).
I did go without a car for years, back when I lived in the city. Took the bus, metro and train. Walked a lot more. Rode my bike or my longboard for really short commutes. Used car sharing services when I did need one. But for 90%+ of the province (in terms of area, not population, admittedly), it’s just not an option at all.
However I do think that consequences for DUI are way too lax, even up here lol
I have a hard time reconciling that with my observations in Europe:
- People travel significantly faster than in the U.S., for example on the autobahn
- Taxi drivers routinely do things I consider crazy in order to get around old European cities, like driving up on sidewalks, passing on narrow two-lane roads
- There are a lot of narrow mountain roads and people seem to drive way too fast to be safe
I’ve never felt like European drivers were “more safe”.
The only differences I can think of that are positive for Europe:
- Less drunk driving
- Traffic circles instead of stop signs
The two differences you listed improve traffic flow and safety massively!
Driver education is often more strict depending on country (I’m thinking Scandinavian countries and Germany), unsurprisingly this makes a big difference.
Traveling faster is a bit of a moot point. If people drive faster and rate of incidents and road toll are lower, surely that proves that travel speed isn’t the problem in the US.
But really, the drink driving culture in America is terrifying. The state of Texas has a similar population to Australia (where I’m from), 9,560 people died on the road in Q1 2022 in texas. Australia had just under 2000 FOR THE WHOLE YEAR! Both places have similar speed limits that are considerably slower than Europe, so I don’t think it would be honest to try and say the low speed limits cause deaths. My best guess would be that drink driving is enforced at 0.05 in Australia compared to 0.08 in Texas. On top of this, Texas only enforces if officers have a cause for lawful detainment, which is a high threshold to cross compared to random breath tests common where I’m from.
Its the same drivers everywhere. Road design is the difference, and europe has a lot of traffic calming road design.
