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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
In what world or country are professors not making enough to afford somewhere to live? In my country professors make good money despite the fact that tenure doesn’t really exist here. It’s one of the highest ranks you can have in academia above lecturer, senior lecturer, and reader.
The professors in the US aren’t living in their cars because they pay isn’t adequate it’s because of the cost of the huge amount of student debt it takes to become a phd
See this actually makes sense, but it is also entirely their own fault. You should only ever do a PhD if you’re getting paid to do it by being sponsored by a company or from a scholarship fund. That’s how I ended up doing my PhD. The kinds of people taking our loans to become a PhD probably shouldn’t be doing a PhD in the first place. It’s not like an undergraduate degree.
Sorry we’ve got a vocabulist here hold on let me talk him down
Nobody is talking about whatever ivory tower caste system you are talking about, to normals “professor” is common parlance for “college teacher” and many campuses around the country still call adjunct “”“”“”““instructors””“”“”“”" adjunct professors
i hope this fulfills the terms of your devil riddle
Yes except lecturers also make bank.
The only people not making good money are the PhD students who also teach. Even then most of us I think get more money than the undergraduates.
Even I as a student get something like £19,000 a year plus £40 per hour teaching rate for any classes I teach.
Either these people are manipulating you or there is something very wrong with academia in your country. Luckily moving countries is quite easy for academics as many Universities will hire foreign staff and there are often immigration laws in place for these kinds of people.
Yeah, I think, uhh, that something is very wrong with our whole country is actually the whole point of the meme?
If this is Los Estados Unidos then it’s not surprising something is wrong. I still sincerely doubt what these guys are saying though. I suspect a lot of them either mismanaged their money badly or are just straight up lying. Nobody would work in academia in that country if things were that bad at every University.
i told him directly “Nobody is talking about whatever ivory tower caste system you are talking about” and he didn’t listen
edit, clarity: it isn’t normal to be British
I am telling you that even people further down in the hierarchy make good money. Either your academics are lying to you (which wouldn’t suprise me people are fucking greedy) or something has gone very wrong in your country. If we are talking about American it’s probably both of those things.
Oh interesting, your views inconveniently disagree with my experienced reality, which relates to numbers I can immediately look up because I have worked in that industry. I’m sorry about your views for you. A supermajority of teaching at American Higher Ed Institutions is done by people who get paid a couple hundred bucks per course hour, and teaching a 4:3 course-load under those conditions will not yield the numbers you are vaguely gesturing towards.
Go ahead, pick a school and look up their adjunct job offers.
My views are based on data from my own country. If that situation is that bad in Los Estados Unidos then leave. In my country the average lecturer salary is a bit over £40k per year which is above the average UK salary for all age groups. That again is for lecturers which are not the same as professors.
You still haven’t said what their salary actually is, just vaguely talked about hourly rates. Shouldn’t most lectures be full time employees? Are you saying most lectures aren’t full time in your country?
Edit: In the UK we actually have a dedicated visa for people with certain skills and qualifications like your academics. So if you wanted to move here you probably could: https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-researcher-academic
It seems that they do understand this economy. It’s capitalism.
It’s not that simple, simp…
Nah, that shit only happen in USA, think twice before allowing companies to control your political system
Well, something does trickle down, it’s just not money/wealth…
True. I used to teach at a technical school, oh, a quarter century ago now. Seats were something like $500 per person, and I would have a class of 14 to 18 students. So $7,000 to $9,000 worth of tuition per day.
I was making $18 an hour, IIRC? $144 a day?
OH! AND I had to wear a suit and tie every day. So in addition to the usual expenses, there were also drycleaning bills.
After 9/11 class size shrunk to 2-3 people a day and the school went out of business.
So the money comes from being a middle-agent. I’d need a lot of capital to open a business where I could exploit my workers. Guess I’m not the target market for this economy.
We need to rethink economy
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It’s almost like there’s greedy fatcats in every industry stuffing all of the profits down their fat gullets while everyone else barely holds off starvation.
Worker and Consumer Cooperatives should be the only way to form a business. Fuck external and unequal capital ownership by shareholders.
Germany has the right idea with their co-determination laws
What are they?
There is an entire wiki page about it if you literally just copy and paste my comment into Google, goddamn
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Crabs in a bucket
Sorry replied to the wrong comment.
you can stop paying corpos for services that people you know can render
Isn’t everyone who can already doing that?
no, i still know assholes going to best cuts
I would never let anyone touch my magnificent mullet and neckbeard.
Ah, yes, I forgot; getting a haircut is clearly the same level of complexity and cost as finding childcare or earning a college degree.
the level of trained helplessness on you people is astounding
yeah you just have to not work so you can take care of your kids and elders yourself. of “people you know” will just do it for free? how about teachers? how about daycare?
what the fuck are you talking about, no, you just pay the people instead of the company that doesn’t pay them enough (home care workers make like 11.50 an hour in the USA rust belt)
why would you assume something that doesn’t make any sense
Bureaucracy is a huge problem.
I do volunteer office work for a non-profit childcare center, and have looked at their budget and their books. It’s basically impossible to efficiently do at the scale of a single center in a high cost of living city.
If you’re paying teachers an average of $30/hour and maintaining a ratio of 4 kids to 1 teacher at all times, and covering 50 hours per week of operational time (for example, operational hours between 8am and 6pm 5 days per week), and you actually have enough staff to not pay overtime, that’s $1500/week in wages per teacher, or $375/week per student. Throw in taxes, healthcare, paid vacation, and staffing in redundancy so that you can handle illness and the unexpected, and each kid might be at $400-450/week in labor costs of the direct work of watching and teaching the kids.
But in reality, childcare is in crisis now because a qualified worker could probably get a higher paying nanny job for 1 or 2 kids at a time, so there’s a severe shortage of workers even at that $30/hour average wage. And so there needs to be overtime, and that creeps up to $450-500/week for workers.
And then you have the ongoing overhead: rent, utilities, furniture/equipment, toys, books, other supplies, etc. Most centers provide food, and have to contract out for that, too.
And then there’s the cost of management. Someone needs to run the place, there might need to be something like a receptionist, and these centers often have to contract out their bookkeeping, electronic records, or even basics like running a website. Most have extra features like electronic reports and maybe even pictures/video for parents, and that costs money, too.
So even on the non-profit side, without a profit motive or distributions to shareholders, the industry as a whole has a mismatch between the prices parents are able to pay versus the bare minimum acceptable cost of providing that service. (In fact, the nonprofit I’m thinking of has donations coming in to cover things like tuition assistance for parents who need it, or a lot of the supplies, and volunteers like me who can provide specialized labor for no cost to the center.)
Childcare should be subsidized by the government, and there’s basically no way this industry can continue to exist based purely on revenues from parents alone. Otherwise the industry will enter a death spiral and the number of people simply unable to afford kids will grow out of control.
How could we possibly subsidize child care? We’ve got genocides to fund, and that’s WAYYYY more important /s
MBA consultant:
Increase the ratio to 35 kids per teacher, add in a minimum wage helper to assist, and have an intern work reception while building the website. Extra services are subscription add ons.
Boom
You would need to change federal law to do that. In other words: that would literally take an act of congress.
Or, hear me out here, fix the economy so that people don’t need between 2 and 3 incomes per household to survive.
On the childcare side of things just increasing wages would end up increasing wealth inequity if childcare isn’t heavily subsidized. The fact is, for a safe adult:child ratio in a daycare each child has to pay for about 1/4 of a teacher
You’re not wrong, and I’m not against massively subsidizing it. In fact I think we should do both. My point is that childcare places wouldn’t be so overwhelmed if we could have a stay at home parent.
Childcare should be subsidized by the government
It is. Ever heard of TANF and other CCW programs?
You mean the programs that Republicans defund every chance they get, and are constantly trying to eliminate? Those programs?
If only ~30% of the population was able to learn something (or oftentimes simply admit they’re wrong) and stop voting against their interests, we wouldn’t have to be constantly worrying that these programs are going to go away and/or get starved.
People literally voting in the people who will (and have in the past) taken food directly from their own childrens’ mouths. It’s infuriating to see. Then when it happens, they’ll find a way to blame “liberals.”
Yet they remain…
Those programs are income limited and don’t really provide much support compared to the cost of child care.
Cost of child care
I my state, child care runs between $1,500 and $2,200 per month ($18,000 to $26,400 per year) per child (I pay about $1,800 per month).
TANF benefits
TANF benefits are income based. They decrease as income increases and end at $75,000 household income.
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The maximum possible benefit of $592 per month ($7,104 per year) is provided for a family with one parent and two children with zero income.
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If that single parent earns $1,000 per month ($12,000 per year) their benefit drops to $330 per month ($3,960 per year).
Availability of care
To top that off, child care facilities are not required to accept TANF because it places limits on how much they can charge. Most place limits on the number of TANF recipients they will enroll and some simply don’t accept TANF.
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Fuckingcapitalists
Private equity, shareholders. No publicly traded business is in the business of providing service and goods of value.
Capitalism combined with markets with inelastic demand is a lot of fun. But communism bad because tankies or whatever.
Bad because the centralized planning committee is little better than ONE BOARDROOM TO RULE THEM ALL and if you disagree with them they send their secret police to yank a black bag over your head and disappear you in the night. Then you, everyone you associated with, and everyone within three generations related to you spend the rest of your short, brutal, agonizing existences starving and/or freezing to death at a slavery camp in the wilderness.
Was this written by a child?
That sounds more like Authoritarianism…
I think that’s because communism has only really been implemented/taken over by authoritarians, and wasn’t really communism.
Any possibly good people that gain power and pursue communism are couped or destroyed
And a lot like the world the orange shit gibbon wants to spew
Unchecked greed is bad for society, capitalist or communist.
People are the problem. If we could only get rid of the people. /sarcasm
Hey, hey, we’re working on getting rid of the people. Just give environmental destruction a chance to do its thing.
I’m surprised to see such a well rounded, logical view here. Kinda feels rare on this platform these days.