G.R.E.E.N.
GET
REPUBLICANS
ELECTED
EVERY
NOVEMBER
So early voting has started in some states. Get out and vote people
I voted for Harris yesterday, and I’ll be voting for Harris again tomorrow. Just kidding. Turns out the dead person whose identity I stole wasn’t registered to vote. 😞
You make jokes, but tomorrow this comment will be on FOX as proof them libs are cheating…
I didn’t actually realize the numbers were that high for her… Ffs.
They know what they’re doing. The elections in swing states are always down to razor margins. The right spoiler is almost a guaranteed win for the opponent :/
Third parties help the democrats because the biggest third party is more right-aligned.
In Michigan Gary Johnson got 172,136 votes, in Pennsylvania he got 146,715, and in Wisconsin he got 106,674. If all Greens voted Clinton and all Libertarians voted Trump then New Mexico would’ve only been won by Clinton with around 1,000 votes, Colorado would’ve also been nearly Trump. Nevada, New Hampshire, and Minnesota would’ve been won by Trump. Maine might’ve gone majority Trump.
Third parties certainly know what effect they have. Their motivation is not to make the second party candidate win. Their motivation is to change the first party candidate.
According to Hotelling’s Law, a two-party political system with FPTP voting results in candidates that are very similar. This is why the Democrats won’t run real progressives for most offices, and why Sanders was forced out in 2016 with the excuse that he wasn’t “electable” enough.
Third parties running for president aren’t trying to win. They’re trying to eat some of the votes on their side, thus pulling the main party candidates toward that third party candidate to reclaim those votes.
I have no idea why this is being downvoted. Thanks for the info.
Third parties certainly know what effect they have.
Third party candidates that are running specifically in presidential elections and nothing else.
Third parties that actually want to move the needle participate in local elections, caucus with a major party for ballot access, etc. (WFP)
Their motivation is not to make the second party candidate win.
Bullshit.
Green’s team literally stated the goal was for Kamala to lose.
Citation for that?
https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/harris-vs-trump-spoiler-says-the-quiet-part-out-loud.html
You can find others if you’d like to look, quite easily.
Edited to add the quote from Sawant:
We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic, we could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.
Its pretty clear the goal there.
Jesus fucking christ. I’m so tired of the American political landscape
Maybe if everyone that posted threads like this voted 3rd party, maybe 3rd party would get enough votes for once to push a reelection and get on the radar? Instead of trying to get people to vote for 2 candidates that don’t support their needs and/or wants.
You do realize that the winning president has to win at least 50% of the electoral college vote in order to win. If no one president does then the top 3 candidates go to the house of representatives to be chosen. Just the media if this happened would finally put a third party on the radar, even if they only won one state.
That’s the spirit. Dream big!
I remember how this was totally going to happen with Jill Stein multiple times. And also Gary Johnson. And Ralph Nader. And H. Ross Perot (18.9% of the vote and still no electoral votes) and probably Harold Stassen too.
This proves that left leaning holdouts have real leverage. The Dems need us to win and if they want our votes they have to appeal to our values.
I guess…
Alternatively, left leaning holdouts for some reason really like to punch themselves and all their friends and family in the nuts and are a real wanker class.
Edit: At least 11 people are giant fuckin wankers
Supporting genocide crosses a line for me that I am unwilling to compromise on. If that makes me a wanker I’ll call myself a wanker proudly.
Trump is a clear supporter of the genocide. He wants Israel to destroy Palestine and he wants the US to do more to help them accomplish this. Harris is nowhere near as bad as this. She’s not going to withdraw support for Israel, but she’s at least going to try to rein them in and return to the pre-war status. Not great, but realistically the best that we can hope for with how supportive our politicians are of Israel in general.
These are the only two people that have a chance at the White House. If you don’t want to support the genocide, don’t waste your vote on somebody that is absolutely, without a doubt, going to lose. Instead, use it to vote for the one candidate that is possibly able to win over the person that is explicitly, unequivocally supportive of the genocide.
In my eyes, not voting for Harris is supporting the genocide. Anything that allows Trump into office is supporting the genocide.
So the only thing I can do if I want to end the genocide is to vote for the person currently doing the genocide?
The “democracy” isn’t worth saving at this point
So the only thing I can do if I want to end the genocide is to vote for the person currently doing the genocide?
You either think Joe Biden is still running for re-election or you don’t understand the powers of the vice president.
Got it. It’s the latter.
That’s extremely entitled of you. You’re willing to throw away a flawed democracy to allow fascism to take over because you don’t like either viable candidate? Absolutely childish. I guess the LGBTQ folk, minority folk, women, and everyone else who will suffer under Trump don’t matter one bit to you, and ironically you’ll accelerate the genocide in Gaza by letting Trump win.
You don’t have a choice for “no genocide” because Israel has no intention of stopping. You can choose the one viable candidate who has a chance at lessening it, or you can choose the other candidate who has explicitly stated he will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants. Third party votes accomplish absolutely nothing for Gaza, and the Palestinians sure as hell won’t thank you for it.
You’re willing to throw away a flawed democracy to allow fascism to take over
The only 2 viable candidates are both pro genocide
Fascism has already taken over and according to you there’s nothing I can do about it
“My vote can’t end the genocide immediately, so I might as well accelerate it”
What an asshole position.
Who do you think the US president is right now?
I’ll consider believing there’s a difference between Kamala and Joe when Kamala says there’s a difference. Until then, you’re just making up a reality in your mind where she is somehow better than him on this despite showing no indication of that.
left leaning holdouts for some reason really like to punch themselves and all their friends and family in the nuts
My brother is voting for Jill Stein because Biden (and by association Harris) supposedly supports genocide - but he thinks Putin is a good person (and has recently started talking about how great China is) and waves his hand when I mention that Trump would support Netanyahu even more. Your “for some reason” resonates with me because I have no fucking idea what happened to my brother to make him start saying this kind of nonsense - except that I know he stopped reading books and now gets his news entirely from his Facebook feed.
Agreed. Hopefully Democrats put more effort into earning their votes.
Stein wasn’t even the only third party candidate stealing votes. I voted for Gary Johnson with the Libertarian party as a “protest vote”. Glancing at national results, he had almost three times as many votes as Stein did.
I was 100% the moron this meme is targeted towards. I voted for Harris yesterday.
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The Jill Stein hate requires a lot of ignorance and very little faith in the candidate running at the head of the Democratic Party.
Obama crushed McCain and Romney, green party be damned. Biden squeaked by Trump on thinner margins than Trump beat Hilary. Nobody cared about Stein in that race.
What changed? Why are Democrats so terrified of the green party all of a sudden?
And the Shill Stein love requires zero common sense, and a shit load of entitlement.
The only people insisting someone is entitled to your vote are shills working for the Ds and Rs
No one is insisting anyone is entitled to anyone’s vote. We are however insisting that you try and understand how voting statistics and simple grade-school math works.
Everyone else has this figured out already? Why are we so close to an election and you still don’t? Do you seriously think that you have some big hidden secret figured out? You know better than the overwhelming majority of an entire country?
Every generation does this shit. You think you know how it works. You don’t.
No one is insisting anyone is entitled
a shit load of entitlement.
:-/
Everyone else has this figured out already?
There arguments have been made. You simply don’t like the conclusions other people have reached.
It’s amusing that you have the nerve to accuse others of being shills.
It’s curious to see what touches your nerves
This, but since dot world is infested with Reddit liberals you’re getting down voted into oblivion.
They’re getting downvoted into oblivion because everyone here knows better.
It’s always easy to be the most ignorant one in the the room if you ignore everyone that tries to tell you how and why you’re wrong.
Because Biden just squeaked by Trump. Leading to 50%-ish of the US population and 80%-ish of Republican voters believing that the last election got stolen. Also leading to a lot of election officials in key states being replaced by fair election denying nutjobs.
Haven’t you been paying attention in the past few years?
I’m not even in the US and I’m already exhausted with the BS that’s upcoming, if there’s no landslide victory for any of the candidates.
Be aware that any third party vote will be a vote for trump. If that’s what you truly want, I fear for your sanity.
Btw, it’s not true that nobody cared about Stein in the previous election. Back then they too said “a vote for Stein is a vote for trump”. You may not have heard it personally, but that message was out there. And it’s still true today!
I’m voting Jill. All your liberal gaslighting just hardens my resolve. I don’t care how many convoluted explanations you come up with to say I’m voting for Trump. My ballot never said Trump and never will.
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Correct, but your ballot helps Trump win nonetheless.
No, your refusal to field an actual popular candidate with actual progressive policies helps Trump win.
Homie, I do not control who the DNC fields. I am basing my strategy on the facts of the situation as they are presented to me. Where’s your popular candidate?
Right, you only tirelessly shill for them by browbeating anyone that has a problem with their candidate currently overseeing a genocide.
Someone not even from the US understands this better than you?
Man… you have no excuses.
At this point it’s clear to me why you’re here and what you’re about.
My ballot never said Trump and never will.
When your vote comes with a free red hat, it kinda does.
Me too Stein in 2016. I was so mad at Clinton for what they did to Sanders. I am voting Harris as soon as voting is open here.
Bernie deserved so much better, and I fucking hate the way the 2016 democrats fucked him over.
Don’t forget 2020. They even made Warren stay in through super Tuesday just to fuck him over more. Not to mention thar snake trying to claim Sanders as a sexist with that hot mic. I never forgive her for that.
But you aren’t a moron if you learned from your mistakes. It means the opposite.
I wish we had ranked choice voting. Then these protest votes would still work and not screw with the system so bad and we could fight the stranglehold of the two party system.
I want something like this where I live. We have FPTP here, but we have a viable third option in some areas. I’d be happier to to have more than 2 robust parties on the national stage.
My state is trying to constitutionally ban the use of ranked choice systems 🫠 fingers crossed the muppets just drew enough awareness to implement it after we reject this amendment
I was that moron too in 2016.
Never again.
Same same man… Voting blue on Monday.
Third party voting; the really real reason Democrats and Republicans can’t get their candidates elected. lol
Hey good on you for being open to change your stance. So many people these days cant.
I remember 2020 where Trump did not win. All problems are fixed now.
Would you rather he did?
No more children in cag- uhh I mean no more war in the middle- ah fuck surely no more fracking at least??
It’s Jill Stein’s fault the dems ran Hillary, it was all her master plan all along. She’s also the one who did whatever the email shit was that people screamed about for 6 years. She must be stopped before she makes the administration do something crazy like supporting genocide
Stein can run AND you can be a dolt for voting for her AND we legally permit you to vote like a dingus, but (also legally) you go on a vote tally and we know how many dolts there were and we get to mock you as a small comeuppance for your ruination of everyone else’s attempt to improve our daily lives and those around us.
Not to suggest that we get to mock you specifically! Because we protect everyone in that way. SO FAR. But you’ll know who we’re mocking. Because we protect that, too.
SO FAR.
Hope that helps you make a better comment next time.
your ruination of everyone else’s attempt to improve our daily lives and those around us
The absolute anger at people who didn’t vote for the shitty guy instead of those who did is goddamn sad. To blame third party voters at all for 2016 is heavy copium of some seriously pathetic levels
Hope that helps you make a better comment next time.
and so smugly full of themselves in a weirdly threatening way, because voting only counts if you vote exactly how they want you to
I disagree that it’s “goddamn sad” when people get mad about others refusing to mitigate harm through votes, and cause irreparable damage instead. Loads of people have been using votes as a way to mitigate harm for decades now. They don’t have the luxury to do otherwise. What makes you so special? Why are you above reproach?
I think it makes sense to be mad about that. It’s awful to see a chance to prevent harm and refuse to. I won’t pretend it’s okay just because you think you can chunk up my post to dunk on select blurbs from it.
I do think they can make a better effort in their posts. I think you can, too.
These numbers are
notcorrect according to NY TimesEdit: I can’t math
I double checked the subtraction with the NYT numbers you linked to, and the numbers look correct to me. Which numbers are wrong?
I can’t math and I think I looked at the wrong state for Michigan
Never forget that in 2016 13% of Trump voters voted for Obama in 2008/12. Maybe the Democratic Party can share some blame, instead of just shaming the voters.
America’s system is a problem.
Yeah no shit. But 2 weeks from the election isn’t the time to try to fix it.
Its the only time to fix it
Oh wait, you’re serious. Let me laugh even harder.
What’s your plan for getting a functional better system ready within two weeks? Because if you have an actually feasible suggestion, I nominate you for president.
Complain about it and get them to put it on their docket. Same as every other issue we care about.
The only way to have entrenched political parties adapt election laws is to vote for alternatives. Only at election time can the topic of election reform be addressed.
Ad 1) this voting system is fixed to keep the two entrenched parties in power. It is tailor-made to funnel power to the two behemoths so that they can amass power to a degree where other players overtaking them is… unlikely under regular circumstances. But apart from that, addressing the issue of the voting system and it being fixed are two different things, and just like one would not do car maintenance while the car is speeding along a highway, restructuring the voting process is not something that will feasibly be done two weeks before election day when certain states are already in the middle of voting.
Almost like Clinton should have run a real campaign in MI😃. Stop running unpopular candidates and blaming it on greens. How embarassing lol.
It’s possible more than one thing contributed to Clinton losing…
At any rate Harris is running a great campaign. So much so that every single potential voter is being considered, even the people that might be getting scammed into voting for Jill Stein. I don’t think the Hilary’s campaign even considered going after the people voting green because it was assumed those votes wouldn’t be a significant factor. The Harris campaign isn’t leaving any stone unturned. That means challenging people who are promoting third parties more.
Harris has declined in popularity with every day that passed after her coronation. She is running a mostly adequate campaign, and trying to please everyone has never been a seriously effective Democratic strategy, especially in the long term.
Harris has her strengths. Very few Democrats would have stood their ground as well as she did in the Fox ambush interview. That’s where she really shines, when she can let out that inner prosecutor. Waltz was a great addition, but the campaign hid him away the second Harris took on most of Hillary’s campaign advisors.
Just like Biden before her, Harris’s greatest advantage is how much Trump is despised outside of his cult. Let’s not be deifying her for that.
trying to please everyone has never been a seriously effective Democratic strategy, especially in the long term.
Do you think it would be more effective to piss off people? Maybe she could start telling us which voters she thinks are “deplorable”? Is that more effective than trying to please as many voters as possible?
The Dems have won three out of the last four elections. Not sure why you’re saying this strategy is not effective given the one they lost was the one where their candidate called some voters deplorable.
Waltz was a great addition, but the campaign hid him away the second Harris took on most of Hillary’s campaign advisors.
The VP candidate is not supposed to overshadow the Presidential candidate. Walz has been on the campaign trail basically non-stop, and doing local interviews which may actually be more important than national interviews. The national media doesn’t pick up on things Walz is doing all the time, but don’t confuse that with the campaign hiding him away. Harris’ debate performance and national interviews are much stronger than Walz’s debate performance on the national stage. So why would they be trying to push a guy to do national interviews that he’s not great at instead of doing rallies and local interviews which he is good at?
In 2008, Obama was the dark horse disruptor candidate. He ran on “hope and change”, promising to be a disruptor. It was McCain who was the establishment candidate running the milquetoast campaign trying to please everyone.
Of course Obama was elected and immediately started acting like a standard establishment Democrats, fucking over Unions, letting bankers off the hook for breaking the economy, and rebuilding that economy on the backs of the working class. Romney was another milquetoast Republican like McCain, but this time Obama came really close to losing - despite some serious missteps by the Romney campaign. Running for the middle almost lost Obama a second term.
Hillary was, of course, as establishment and milquetoast as candidates come, and look who she lost to. Biden was almost as bad, but he did manage to squeak by with a win, but he beat Trump in swing states by a much smaller margin than Trump beat Hillary. This was with 4 years of Trump and a failed pandemic response still fresh in everyone’s minds. Trump was far more responsible for losing that election than Biden was for winning it.
I’m certainly no fan of Hillary, but I think too much is made of the deplorable comment. She should never have made it but, once she did, the bigger mistake was trying to walk it back. That just made her look weak. There is absolutely a large deplorable contingent in Republican politics, and Republicans call Democrats far worse every day.
You can’t run a “please everyone” campaign on real policy. Any actual stance on any issue will piss of someone. Democrats who run this way trade off grass roots enthusiasm in exchange for a chance at appealing to Republican voters. They don’t lose a lot of Democratic votes directly, but it kneecaps the Democratic ground game. Campaign need volunteers to knock on doors and get people registered. Nobody is excited to volunteer their time for a Democrat that sounds like a Republican or promise to put Republicans in their cabinet. This is even more critical as Republicans step up voter suppression strategies.
I know that Waltz isn’t supposed to be front and center, but he brought a lot of really effective strategies that were working great and got pulled by the Democratic consultants.
Yeah how dare ð dems pick ð candidate ð majority of ðeir primary voters picked! Ðey should have chosen someone more popular, like ð guy who got even less votes ðan her during ðose same primaries!
Maybe the Democratic party should consider what not following through on their campaign promises gets them. I don’t how their failure to realize their promises to their voters is the fault of people voting for third parties
