I’m a teacher and our division just “upgraded” to W11 with a new version of outlook that is basically a web app on desktop. Several times a day my laptop comes to a complete crawl while Teams decides to open itself. Can’t open or close programs, Firefox won’t register mouse clicks, nothing. Graphical glitches appear al the time with menu bars and task bars disappearing regularly, requiring force quitting the app or logging out of the desktop.
When I first switched to Linux I assumed my experience would be like this. But now it’s the other way around.
Rant over.
I requested a Windows machine at work a few years ago, because the specs were amazing, and I was getting frustrated with Mac OS. After using the Windows machine for a couple days I was reminded why I don’t like Windows anymore, and returned the machine, despite its amazing specs. It just wasn’t worth it.
Hm. Not sure if it’s because I’ve stuck with gnome and kde. But both definitely freeze often during high I/o or intense processing times.
On multiple machines and multiple distros. It’s one of the most annoying things about it really.
Not completely sure, but I believe that is a kernel thing. Hence present on all distros. Perhaps because the kernel is turned for throughput/server workloads. I hope this will be resolved with new schedulers though (e.g., through sched_ext).
Can’t comment on Gnome as I don’t use it, but that hasn’t been my experience with KDE. Previously running Tumbleweed and now running EndeavourOS
Maybe it’s because of Wayland, but that hasn’t been my experience with KDE. It has been lightning quick lately (though I recently switched to an immutable distro so that could be part of it)
Yeah, I noticed that on GNOME as well
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It is basically http://mail.office365.com in an electron shell. I’m pretty sure all the non ‘classic’ apps are this way now. I’m currently trying out Thunderbird to see if I like it.
Yeah my org is about to ban using anything but the outlook client for email access for “security” reasons, and ban all other logins. We’re on a Kubernetes cluster, so historically you’ve been able to login via Thunderbird or use the Gmail web interface as well.
If they go through with it I will riot.
Personally I’ve been using outlook via pwa for months anyway
If they’re gonna put it in an electron container anyway you be may as well cut out the middleman and just use the web app Microsoft’s ones are actually quite good now
And here I am looking to move away from Linux after they started rejecting contributions for political reasons.
They removed maintainers that work for Russian corporations, they are not blocking submissions from any Russian citizen.
That doesn’t invalidate my statement though.
The reason I replied is because of the “submissions” part. They aren’t doing that, everyone can still submit code that might get accepted. What they did was remove some of the people in charge of deciding what gets accepted from the team.
I think that entire comment is actually incorrect. My understanding is that they did not “remove” any maintainers, but actually rejected patches from Russian citizens (because of their employer), and also removed some Russian names from the maintainers list who already have code in the kernel.
Guh. Amen to this! I’m in the same boat. Sometimes I just bring a Linux laptop with me to work just to have a break from the work computer.
Software neutrality in the entire public sector should be a law. Leverage of proprietary software and media like professor published book scams are criminal extortion.
People say shit like this, then move over to the thread about Russian maintainers, and lose their shit about it…
These are one in the same. Sanctions have been imposed on Russia because working with Russian people/companies is a national security risk at the moment.
And yes, I know that the Russian people are not the Russian government. But one thing many of you don’t seem to grasp (perhaps due to the massive holes in basic understanding that your STEM degree left you with?) is that, in an authoritarian country where numerous people have been thrown out of windows for less, you cannot trust that the government is not actively interfering. In fact, given recent history, it would be pretty surprising if they weren’t.
Would you put in a backdoor if your government (very credibly) threatened to kill you and/or your family if you didn’t? I can’t say that I wouldn’t.
Yeah they transferred all of our network files held on our own private servers over to Teams. I didn’t even know that teams did file storage. I guess through one drive.
Yeah it’s just OneDrive/Sharepoint with a trench-coat
Everything is through OneDrive. Even stuff that doesn’t need to be. Desktop shortcuts…really?
Also - I hate Teams, refuse to use it. The one time I did use it for some irrelevant confirmation message, it stuck and now not only does it load every time I log on (to get closed immediately), it also has the history of that one message. That I’ve tried to delete, and it keeps coming back.
It doesn’t do storage. It puts it in SharePoint somewhere. Where? Nobody knows. You may find it someday and bookmark it. It will also show up in OneDrive and maybe even Outlook! Because Microsoft doesn’t believe in your concepts of “location” man.
You can access basically everything O365 through Teams, this is one of the factors making Teams such a shitshow.
You can still use the classic version of Outlook, that comes with latest Office. It is literally called “Outlook (classic)” in the start menu.
with a new version of outlook that is basically a web app on desktop
Oh you got the EdgeBook!
What a big pile of shit software, I swear I’m just gonna quit because of this ass smelling garbage.
Today I discovered that C:/Users/MyUser was silently an alias of C:/Users/OneDriveBullshit/MyUser only in the explorer. So I just figured out why some documents were often disappearing for months, I’m just working on a multiverse were depending on the application the same path don’t lead to the same folder.
Earlier this week I unzipped a file and couldn’t remove resulting files without administrator privileges.
I’ve never lost so much time for any fucking software, let alone a paid one. And don’t even get me starting on the fucking ads they put everywhere even if you unchecked the 154 options in 42 different menus.
Wow thank you I needed that.
Wow, you just… described the problem we had on our Windows PCs that I never managed to describe
Also, I don’t get how people just accept that any input they perform will require an average of 1s for feedback.
But at least now I understand why macs are so popular…
Takes a second for your clicks to come back from MS servers.
I also experienced less “hiccups” since switching to Linux with KDE but I’d like to know on what combination of hardware and Windows you experienced anywhere close to an average of 1s response time to “any input”.
right clicking on anything takes closer to a second on our school machines… on 10th gen i7…
It’s a ~5 years old thinkpad. It may be due to it not being well managed but it really disn’t up to the task. Being in a Teams call while using an external displays makes the framerate drop to ~10fps for example 🤷
That’s mostly down to Teams though (being the bloated web app that it is), and not the underlying operating system.
I think, it’s both.
This is the thing I hate most about windows. Did it register the thing I clicked? Is something happening? If I click again will it do the task twice? Complete opposite of how my Mac works.
Earlier this week I unzipped a file and couldn’t remove resulting files without administrator privileges.
To be fair, this kind of stuff happened to me when I first switched to Linux, before I got a better grasp on file permissions.
Yeah I can totally see that happening 🫣
Here it was especially infuriating because it’s mixed with all the company policies, like the 1 month process it took me to have administrator privilege in the first place.
These process also make some sense as I’m in a company of several hundred thousand employees, but all of this mixed together is exhaustingly anoying.
I just dealt with my directories secretly being in one drive. It actually was only found because the system was buggy and I couldn’t find the desktop directory in Explorer.
I had to edit the registry to fully resolve the issue.
At least now I know that I’m not crazy. Also that this issue is on Microsoft and not on my company’s IT department.
Yeah, Microsoft is super buggy. It’s a wonder that people think that Linux is unreliable.
My current company just got bought out earlier this year, we are in the process of rolling all our stuff into their IT infrastructure.
I was lucky enough to get to use Debian as my OS on my old company laptop because I was the only IT at this company. Last week they finally issued me my new corporate laptop, which of course is Windows because the company that bought us out is a 100% Microsoft house.
One of their sys admins was on a call with me to get the laptop set up and working on their VPN, MFA enrollment, it was supposed to be a “quick 15 minute call.”
I watch him as he fought remotely with my machine for almost an hour. The VPN wouldn’t work no matter what he tried, then the GUI started acting up, then RDP wasn’t working right, then MFA wasn’t working. This was a brand new installation from their golden image too on a brand new high end laptop.
After about 20 minutes, I told him I was gunna stay on the call muted and to just let me know when everything was working properly. Then I hopped back onto my Linux laptop and spent the rest of the call getting actual work done while their new Windows machine was pooping the bed.
He didn’t actually even get it working at the end of the hour lol. He had to remote in later that evening to finish doing a bunch of registry fixes and file purges to finally get the VPN to connect.
My home desktop has been on Linux for almost a decade, and a few months ago, my employer certified Linux as a choice for our corporate laptops. I couldn’t be happier. If only I managed to convince my wife to take the plunge, but she is the most anti-change person I know when it comes to technology. It took her months to stop complaining when she had to upgrade to Win 10 and her 9 years old computer is slow as it gets right now, it was never re-installed and she rather not risk trying to make it better in fear of breaking something…
I have to use SharePoint on a daily basis.
You’re fucked.
We pray for you
Yeah no, the experience really is ass.
We use Lenovo IdeaPads at work, a model with an i7 and a Nvidia GPU, and Windows constantly chugs and has weird UI issues, even though the machines are not running heavy software and are on a pretty fresh install.-
Sometimes when I wake the laptop from sleep, it sits and the lock screen showing my wallpaper and NOTHING else.
Clicking, typing does nothing, I just have to sit there and wait like 2 minutes until it finally decides to show the input field and let me login again. -
The Network/Sound/Battery tray flyout frequently stops responding. Only goes back to normal after restarting explorer.exe
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The internal display has scaling while the external doesn’t. So every time you drag a window across it “snags” in between them while the application flickers and struggles to switch the scaling.
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Switching between virtual desktops is so sloooow, if you use a different wallpaper on each you can literally see Windows struggling to swap the wallpapers in time.
It’s impressive how a native OS feature feels like a third-party kludge.
Great work Microsoft.
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My experience exactly. My current company is rolling out new W11 laptops as the old ones age out.
I’m consistently amazed at how poorly Windows 11 runs on these brand new, $1500 enterprise grade machines. They all have the latest Intel i7 chips, 16GB of DDR5 memory, Nvme 1TB drives, 1440p beautiful screens, and they perform like ass.
Constant lockups, stuttering, slow to wake up, slow to open programs, the fans constantly spin up super loud with almost nothing running in the foreground.
I see frequent GUI glitches and bugs, literally had the WiFi stop working on one yesterday, just wouldn’t connect to anything and the tray app wouldn’t pop up when clicked. Had to restart the whole computer and log in again to get it to connect.
Meanwhile, the 11 year old retired desktops that I repurposed for internal company resources like Open Project, Uptime Kuma, and Ansible are running plain old Debian with KDE Plasma and are rock solid. They never crash, never freeze up, are always super responsive, and are fast to update. The longest one of them has taken to update was maybe 3 minutes?
Windows on the other hand… Lets just say there’s a reason I push updates at the end of the day.
Vista all over again?
Worse, Vista you could wrestle into submission, Windows11 is so deeply embedded with ads, spyware, bloat, and spaghetti code, it’s almost impossible to get it clean.
And even when you do, you have to constantly fight to keep it that way. The fact that Windows will change your settings for default apps and privacy preferences without your permission after a major update is absolutely insane and disgusting.
I shouldn’t have to constantly be on guard for my OS Which I paid $200 for professional licensing to just sneak its own preferences and settings back to what it wants.
Microsoft is due a terrible release, 7, 8, & 10 were all above average.
What are you talking about, Windows 8 was a complete shitshow. It wasn’t until 8.1 that it became respectable.
I think Win 8 was a YMMV release. I used it heavily for work, (CAD/CAM) and it ran very well. With no more issues than one expects to get from /windows.
I stopped after 7 🤷
The last week 10 was an easy, free upgrade, I upgraded then gave the machine to a friend to do some very, very early LLM training to never see it again.
XP had a bunch of problems early on, just like 8. The hate for 8 was mostly because of ui changes. Me and 95 were irredeemably bad.
I spend a lot of my workday looking at windows that have turned white and “not responding”, or clicking on things and waiting a minute to see whether the click worked, or waiting for the Start menu to allow me to type, or waiting for the indexing service to spare me a little bit of my computer for my own use, etc. Then I come home to Linux and remember how computers can actually be fast and satisfying to use.
Oh W11 start menu is so damn slow… I usuall smash Win and then immediately start typing the Application I need. After the Windows 11 upgrade, the menu chokes on the first two letters leaving me with having to redo everything slowly.
