How many dead Palestinian kids will it take for you to change your vote?
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We both know the answer in most cases is “None, they can all die”
The ones said that they have to vote against Trump because he’s so mean. Even though Florida is no longer a swing state. Like they get and agree with me that this is an long-running campaign of genocide, they have come to detest the Israelis for their brutality but, Trump winning in 2016 just broke their brains enough that they can’t imagine doing anything but voting for Democrats, no matter how much they resemble the Bush era ghouls they hated.
When you confront them with it, the cognitive dissonance is there, and it presents itself as getting hostile when being confronted with their voting for people currently committing genocide. They try to avoid that contradiction by changing the subject as soon as they can. The TV really makes them think Trump is the source and only problem in this world, even though I’ve told them repeatedly it isn’t the case.
Hell, I remember when we were politically active liberals pre-Trump, and my mother displayed symptoms of what we now call Trump Derangement Syndrome, but, towards John Boehner of all people. She would talk with the same hatred every liberal has for Trump but, towards that guy, of all people, saying he was basically the root of all evil in this country. They always need, I guess, a Bonapartist figure to manifest their negative partisanship towards and I’m at a loss of how to break through.
My dad was the most crushing to hear, since his hatred for Putin as a scapegoat by the neocons for Trump winning, has made him invested in reading about the Ukraine war online. When I told him of my anger towards the Democrats on Gaza, he basically said that in the grand scheme of things, he doesn’t really care since the American political establishment will never change anything on that issue. My takeaway from that was, at least his vote can change whether the orange Putin man is in charge or not. He’s been that disillusioned ever since Bernie lost and showed the electoral system for what it is.
Anyways, we all voted yesterday.
he really is the greatest investment they ever made. they never have to fulfill a campaign promise again.
Or even make any.
I’m not going to pick arguments over votes in the presidential election, I’d be better off trying to bail out the high tide.
If voting isn’t worth a whole lot, it’s not worth arguing with a liberal and making them double down, because that’s all that’s going to come of it.
sad cat song meme meow meow meow meow… piano chord bum bum meow meow meow meow. meowww
The honest answer is that no number would be sufficient.
Maybe I should have put this in /c/doomer
The whole world is /c/doomer now.
Congratulations on succesfully creating a lemmitor honeypot, Mr. Mayor
This feat has become increasingly difficult as the libs have sealed themselves off in their echo-chambers.
Good heavens, would you look at the time?
You guys really don’t get that your voting system only leads to two parties. As soon as one of those parties splits up, the other one will literally always win, that’s just a mathematical reality.
It is true that both of these two parties are terrible. However, D is slightly less terrible as R. If you stop voting for D and go for X which is theoretically objectively better, R will always win. So a vote for X is effectively a vote for R.
Yes, if suddenly all D voters would move to X, then X would win. But this is simply not realistic. The only realistic way for change is for the slightly better party of the two to always win, which would make R die out. Then a farther left party will emerge, that might even want to change to ranked choice voting. If not, the whole spiel has to be repeated until D dies out because of never winning.
This is incredibly slow, but slow is how our society changes. Even the French revolution didn’t just suddenly happen, hundreds of years of starting to understand how terrible monarchy was and building the knowledge of alternate systems among the general populace was required. The real change is people gaining more knowledge, gaining a better understanding of reality, themselves.
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if dick fucking cheney and enthusiastic support for genocide won’t break you from blue no matter who, what could?
Vote Blue No Matter What They Do
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
First time a tragedy, second time a farce. My mom has been sending me these pre-written harangues to vote for Bomb-ala and this is all I can think of. The Democrats have already thrown Palestine under the bus. They have already thrown the people, families, and children at the southern border under the bus. Do you honestly think they are going to care about queers when it’s no longer expedient? Seriously?
Exceptional struggle session, comrade
There is no point in getting them to change their vote though.
Srsly, if you want people in your life to actually help Palestine, there are much better ways. Maybe encourage them to donate to gofundmes on gazafunds.com or something. Go to a protest together. Tell them about the BDS movement.
But on the other hand, why do any of that when you could instead take the option of antagonizing them about their electoral choices. Really piss them off, get them to stop taking you seriously. Burn bridges and shrink your sphere of influence within your community. That’s what will really be helpful to the people of Palestine.
I can’t fucking wait for election season to be over
get them to stop taking you seriously
If they can’t take genocide seriously they don’t deserve to be in my circle.
They should have enough of a conscience to not vote for a genocide denier AND support BDS, donate to Gaza, etc.
Talking about whether these people “deserve” to talk to you when the question is how to make political progress wrt Gaza is fucking ridiculous. No one is asking who should have the honor of your presence, they are asking what to do to fix the problem that you see as disqualifying people from having Pete association privileges.
If you want to do agitation but can’t tolerate that most of the people talking to you hold the most normalized views of their society, let me save you the effort and inform you that you should quit.
I’d rather pick my battles. Not worth spending time trying to convince everyone.
That’s exactly why people are saying you don’t need to convince people to not vote Kamala. You should try to convince them to help Palestine in other ways.
Seriously, like every two years everyone in the USA just turns into a Vulcan going through Pon Farr
But for elections
Here’s the thing: if they back the genociders, I want them dead. I no longer see them as countrymen; I don’t even see them as humans occupying the same strata of the Animal Kingdom as I do anymore. This is beyond ‘opp’, this is ‘existential fucking foe’ shit.
I mean the hope would be to convince enough of them to hold their vote hostage to make America stop killing people. Even for ten days.
I think things are going to get real bad if the democrats learn genocide is completely fine.
I don’t think we can convince them it’s not through voting. (Obviously we need to protest more and do direct action)
Sure, but I don’t think voting for them helps in that effort
Both sides of the American political system have known that for decades.
Not like this. They used to hide things like the My Lai Massacre or lie about WMDs or obfuscate what the troops were doing
voting is completely pointless. why do we even argue at this point when it just gives neoliberal ghouls more space to spread their ideology? we should be criticizing the idea of voting as a concept without the presence of a leftist party as a viable option, the hope in the electoral system has become a kind of false consciousness. it was only able to make change as long as people were implicitly backing up their beliefs with the threat of direct action, and as long as the looming threat of communism kept the bourgeoisie from diving off the deep end entirely. And now they are, and without a proper opposition nothing will matter. We need to be emphasizing this and attacking their positions of supporting voting in general as a primary form of action, not just who they’re voting for. Yes, we should vote for PSL and such, but mostly as part of creating the image of a strong leftist power base, not because we think it’s possible to actually get electoral concessions from the bourgoisie
I’m not against voting, I’m against elections in liberal “democracy”. There’s a very big difference, imo.
