highest voter turnout in history
nailbiter race between fascists and liberals
I voted, that should be enough, same as anyone.
Also, both sides are bad, in different ways.
Find your polling location. Go vote!
Your ballot will be deciding much more than just the president. Even if you did theoretically think both presidential canidates were equal in all regards (they aren’t), then vote for the down ballot races!
Keep your local school boards from having insane people on it that will ban books and harm your kids or your neighbors’s.
Vote for the constitutional ammendment questions and ballot initiatives. For instance, many states have either pro and anti abortion questions on their ballot.
Yup, they know they’re outnumbered so they try every trick in the book to stop the Democrat bloc surplus from voting.
The destruction of the republican party via increased voter and representation rights represents the single greatest possible “progressive” leftward shift of the US political window. Emphasis on “possible”. Conservatives are a minority party and their extreme views do not represent modern America.
The road to a more progressive, equitable future is through the democrats. It doesn’t end there.
Republicans winning offices means more long lasting legislation to clear, more conservative judicial appointments, etc.
Teaching THIS (2024) democratic party a lesson is worthless if it comes with 30+ years of conservative judicial backsliding.
The destruction of the republican party via increased voter and representation rights represents the single greatest possible “progressive” leftward shift of the US political window.
Absolute pipe dream. They aren’t even going to lose control of the Senate. They’ll have dozens of governorships and legislative majorities when this election is over.
Liberals are fucking delusional if they think this election changes any of that.
My guy I’m saying it’s the goal in general not this election. It is the existential goal of anyone left of maga.
You should review the electoral college maps compared to population, in addition to gerrymandering. Democrats actively seek to improve voter access, proper districting and so on. If those topics are continued and eventually successful, the republican party is exposed for the minority population that is is. Republicans cannot win in a “fair” fight.
Lastly my point regarding judicial appointments is critical here: redistricting and voter access issues are won in the courtroom. Reducing conservative appointments is absolutely possible with a Harris win.
Delusional is thinking all this happens in one term, while ignoring the backslide of progress a trump term would mean.
it’s the goal in general not this election.
One Party Rule is the goal of both parties, and equally unattainable for similar reasons.
Democrats actively seek to improve voter access, proper districting and so on
They do not, as evidenced by the failure to advance DC Statehood when they had a majority.
my point regarding judicial appointments is critical here
Republicans will control the Senate at the end of this election. Harris will not shift the balance of power under these conditions.
thinking all this happens in one term
Do you think this is the first term Dems and GOPers have been struggling for power?
I do not. Why would I?
Trump has made judicial appointments a key goal of his first term, so it stands to reason he’d do the same now. Avoiding that is progress, even if Harris gets zero.
Edit: to avoid playing nickel and dime debate club:
The democratic party is wildly imperfect and often ineffectual. I’m not satisfied, and I’m not cheerleading for them.
Harris may also be wildly imperfect and often ineffectual. That’s still better than the massive equality, stability and integrity sink trump represents and that’s what I’m arguing for.
Trump has made judicial appointments a key goal of his first term
McConnell made it a key goal. That’s why he blocked Garland for 10 months under Obama.
Schumer has not. That’s why he let a SCOTUS nomination fall into Trump’s hands a mere 10 weeks before Biden took office.
Please note I had a late edit that should head off this back and forth on specifics.
With election reform we don’t need for the Republican party to stop existing to get more viable options in the voting booth.
Very true, my point is the current republican party is trumped up by systemic inertia. They are a minority position.
Teaching THIS (2024) democratic party a lesson is worthless if it comes with 30+ years of conservative judicial backsliding.
And on top of that, when has “teaching the party a lesson” actually worked out in the peoples’ favor?
It hasn’t ever. Always vote for the lesser evil, it’s less evil.
For anyone who already knows the truth of this meme, or who would like to know more about the vast methods of deception and how to spot and counter them, this DEFCON 32 talk is incredible.
DEF CON 32 - Counter Deception: Defending Yourself in a World Full of Lies - Tom Cross, Greg Conti
The Internet was supposed to give us access to the world’s information, so that people, everywhere, would be able to know the truth. But that’s not how things worked out. Instead, we have a digital deception engine of global proportions. Nothing that comes through the screen can be trusted, and even the things that are technically true have been selected, massaged, and amplified in support of someone’s messaging strategy.
Deception isn’t just about narratives - we see deception at every layer of the network stack, from spoofed electromagnetic signatures, to false flags in malware, to phony personas used to access networks and spread influence. They hide in our blindspots, exploit our biases, and fill our egos while manipulating our perceptions.
How do we decide what is real? This talk examines time-tested maxims that teach the craft of effective deception, and then inverts those offensive principles to provide defensive strategies. We’ll explore ways to counter biases, triangulate information sources, detect narratives, and how hackers can build tools that can change the game.
100% this.
Don’t worry, the communists of Lemmy are already celebrating the Trump victory.
They were never leftists, or if they are, then they’re extremely anti-American leftists who want to see the US burn, not improve.
Are you even federated with Lemmygrad and Hexbear? Because they’re not celebrating. You’re like the Republicans who blame immigrants because you want an easy excuse to hide the fact the party is dogshit.
I am federated with the bear, but not grad. What’s going on is thinly veiled celebrations. Plus never have I heard a single one of those people have a bad thing to say about Trump or conservatism.
I’m not too sure most of the people on Hexbear are leftists tbh, I reckon they’re fans of authoritarianism more than anything. I even got banned for saying that voting third party (aka not voting against Trump) is pretty much voting for genocide. Of course, they don’t see it that way - Biden and Harris are personally killing Palestinians and under Trump this would surely be stopped.
And thus, instead of fighting the actual enemy, the republicans, you’re antagonising the people who are more reasonable. Next time you can do it like France and call leftist crazy extremists so you’ll seem less hypocritical about it.
Been saying this the whole time. Libs were shaming and harassing undecided voters for weeks instead of acknowledging that the dems were running a god awful campaign and pivoting towards nazi policies.
please explain to me in what world, not voting for dems who are “tending towards nazi ideology” compared to someone who openly espouses nazi ideology is somehow the better choice.
I fail to see how, maybe i’m too intelligent and smart, but to me it seems like a really fucking simple choice.
I’m not commenting on the ethics of voting for Harris. I’m commenting on the hordes of people on lemmy and other social networks who were actively insulting anyone who expressed uncertainty in voting for Kamala. Actively insulting people who want to be on your side but are finding it difficult to support someone who is part of an administration that is actively funding a genocide.
Those people, in my opinion, pushed voters away by completely ignoring their concerns and telling them they are fucking stupid if they don’t vote democrat. It’s a brain dead strategy and mirrors the democrats campaign strategy, which categorically failed.
When you run to the right, and the people who like right-wing policies already have a party giving them the policies they want, they’re not gonna switch parties, and you’re just going to alienate the parts of your base/coalition that are affected by those policies.
Campaigning primarily on being the lesser evil and maintaining status quo failed, you can tell people 1 choice is slightly better all you want but on election day we found out that you can’t win that way. If the dem politicians actually want to win they’ll try a different strategy next time
When you run to the right, and the people who like right-wing policies already have a party giving them the policies they want, they’re not gonna switch parties, and you’re just going to alienate the parts of your base/coalition that are affected by those policies.
the harris campaign was not right wing, idk why you’re just making this shit up, there are more political ideologies aside from socialism and communism you know this right?
It was so right wing that it got endorsed by evil warmonger dick cheney.
and so did putin? Who gives a fuck who endorses what.
Clearly the campaign cared because they publicized Cheneys endorsement
Which policies are nazi-like?
The trump 2020 border agenda that the dems adopted as their own campaign promise this time around
Also, “most lethal military in the world”.
What are you talking about?!?! The Dems ran a flawless campaign, it’s all the voters who are wrong!!! Don’t know they know what the Dems tell them is right is right?!? Don’t you know you’re fucking stupid if you have any qualms about not voting for Harris?!?
- 90% of Lemmy users right now trying to find any reason to blame anyone but the DNC for their hubris and entitlement
If third parties wanted to actually do some good in the country, you’d see them running locally and encouraging either ranked-choice voting or STAR voting (Score, then automatic runoff).
Third parties run at all levels of government and they would actually benefit from eliminating first past the post polling far more than the major parties.
The bitter fact is that a winning candidate has no incentive to reform the voting system that put them in power.
Why would a dominant party want to give any competitor an advantage?
I hate to say it, but the only way I could see it happen is if both parties simultaneously see significant 3rd/4th party challengers acting as spoilers. In that situation, RCV would be the short term solution to remove the effect of spoiler votes. Basically the situation the UK is in right now with both the Lib Dems and Reform.
Because they care about maintaining their voters far more than enticing non-voters. If you listen to legislators and their staff for example, the way they perceive it is that non-voters may as well not exist in their minds, but eroding voters get attention.
Why is it called score, then automatic runoff instead of star, then automatic runoff?
I’m not an expert in it, but according to the Wikipedia link, they score the possible candidates to get down to two, and then they do an automatic runoff.
But wouldnt starring amd scoring mean similar things?
The fact that you only ever hear of third parties every four years really illustrates what their true objectives are.
The fact that you only ever hear about ranked choice voting when you tell Democrat you’re thinking of voting third part illustrates what their true objectives are.
(Also, I see third candidate parties in every midterm and local election I vote in at all levels of government. I have no idea what you’re talking about).
(Also also, anyone reading this who lives in a swing state and hasn’t voted yet, please, just votes for Harris. She sucks, but Trump is even more dangerous now that he has a staff full of enablers and an actual plan. We have to beat him.)
Not having RCV doesn’t make anything worse.
Promoting third-parties without RCV in place does.
Well, third parties have always existed and will always exist, so it sounds like the Democrats need to get cracking on RCV. That is, unless they don’t actually want RCV because it might disrupt the duopoly that empowers them, and they’d prefer that third-parties remain a boogeyman they can use to bully people I to voting for them (or a scapegoat for their losses).
Democrats have been behind, or at least caucused to support, most of the RCV initiatives that have been put forward.
Statewide, sure, but there’s no broad discussion of abolishing FPTP polling like there is eliminating the Electoral College.
Don Beyer(D) proposed the Fair Representation Act in 2017 that included implementing RCV for electing representatives to the House.
It’s much easier to sell a national popular vote, since people are used to popular votes already. RCV will be much easier to push federally when there are plenty of states that use it locally. Until then it’s largely a non-starter.
I see no Green party members on the local ballot to enact this. They are starting at the top, which doesn’t help.
The greens internal voting is literally done by RCV, they have it both in practice and in platform all the way down the line. AFAIK, so does the DSA.
But whatever dude, keep doing what you’re doing, it’s working out great, clearly!
Shhh, they need someone to blame for their horrible run.
Its only been 24hrs and this post aged like milk.
Aged like fine wine my dude, ~14mill less dems showed up to vote
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it’s absolutely not politicians, it’s the people.
This is like being presented with “would you rather stick a nail in your arm, or in your eye” and then doing nothing, only to have the nail get stuck in your eye by a third party.
The fault lies squarely with people who make assinine claims without any evidence, pretending they hold some deep wisdom when they really don’t know shit.
You are the evidence to support my claim, Poopster, in case that wasn’t obvious.
What’s a politicians job during the campaign?
To convince people that they’re worth electing.
and it’s the peoples job to vote for the best candidate…
Weird that donald trump WON the election, that’s real curious.
When did voting become mandatory?
The only obligation to voting is your right to exercise it how you choose, full stop. It is not anyone’s “job” to vote any specific way, this is the entitlement Democratic voters need to get over.
Yeah, Trump won because he convinced his base he was worth voting for. Harris couldn’t convince her base that he was a threat and that she was worth voting for.
She did try to win over Republican voters instead of her own, though. 94% of them voted Republican anyway, just like they did in 2020.
But I’m sure you’ll tell me that was the voter’s fault too. 🙄
Edit: I brought up mandatory voting because it could be legislated that way, just as voting day could be made a federal holiday. And laws could be passed to mandate paid time off to allow essential workers to vote on voting day if absentee/early voting are unavailable. Or what if you were automatically registered to vote on your 18th birthday, none of this registering nonsense.
Damn, those are all great policy ideas that the Democrats could run on, or even implement, since they have been outwardly more supportive of people voting. Funny that they haven’t done that in the last couple decades…
… It’s almost like the Dems don’t want that roughly 60% of people who don’t vote to start voting. Wonder why that is…
When did voting become mandatory?
i didn’t say it did.
Fact of the matter is, if you don’t exercise your vote, and the result is worse, you exercised your vote badly. There is no difference between not voting, and having a bad outcome, and voting (for the wrong thing) and having a bad outcome. They are the same.
It is not anyone’s “job” to vote any specific way, this is the entitlement Democratic voters need to get over.
i don’t disagree, and in fact, i agree, this is an entitlement that democrats need to get over, because if they did get over it, we would start fucking winning. The republicans are literally an abusive partner right now, and we’re just sitting here like “well maybe if i close my eyes he won’t hit me” and then being really fucking confused when it doesn’t do anything.
As a party, we’re literally cannibalizing ourselves over this issue. It’s not that deep, just vote for the least bad candidate, and get over it, go do local political lobbying, go vote in primaries, go vote in local elections, whatever the fuck, nobody cares, just do something
She did try to win over Republican voters instead of her own, though. 94% of them voted Republican anyway, just like they did in 2020.
she didn’t try to win over republican voters, she tried to win over moderate voters. I would say it worked to some degree. But obviously since we got like a 50% turnout, it’s really hard to say if anything worked, and frankly, i think the democratic institution is failing right now. If we don’t get up and do something about it in the next 4 years, the republicans are going to run uncontested.
it’s funny that the image says moderate republicans, and while that’s partially true, it’s also pushing for support from the moderate left. Which is the vast majority of the party. She was also appealing to the moderate left (most of the dem party)
Damn, those are all great policy ideas that the Democrats could run on, or even implement, since they have been outwardly more supportive of people voting. Funny that they haven’t done that in the last couple decades…
maybe they should, but in defense of them, running on voting policy, in a federal election is pretty fucking silly. You can’t really do much about it on a federal level.
It’s almost like the Dems don’t want that roughly 60% of people who don’t vote to start voting. Wonder why that is…
so they can lose repeatedly to the republican party? ok.
If they could understand that you need to appeal to voters to win an election, they’d be very upset.
I love this, you made me smile on a very shit day, so thank you for that.
If I don’t laugh, I cry. I have to make comedy out of a shit situation or I’ll wonder how far I need to jump.
Do you think these people stayed home?
Exactly. Trump got less votes than he did last election (which he lost).
What definitely didn’t happen is people changed their mind. That’s impossible!
I know that they didn’t vote
You know there was 14 million less people this time l than last. You don’t know if they were Democrats. Literally low information, high opinion person. And we know what happens to them.
(Hell, you don’t even know that 14 million didn’t show because we don’t have the final vote total.)
Trump also has less votes than last time and almost all votes are tallied at this point, there isn’t millions left. Voters in general didn’t show up as much for this election.
Lowest turnout since 2020. Second highest since 1920.
You Americans are really weird in that regard. As a foreigner, both your parties are fucking horrible. To demonstrate what I mean: one party wants to ban abortions, the other party says that unless you vote for them, the bad guys will take away your abortions and then they proceed to do absolutely nothing about it.
So yeah, one of your parties is almost cartoonishly evil, the other is plain old adult-level evil.
It’s not that democrats are any better than republicans, they’re just smarter about pretending they’re not evil.
This is not only incredibly reductionist, it’s just flatout wrong. How can people still tout this “both parties are the same” bullshit?
It’s gonna get real hard to keep it up in a few months when we start to see the real world implications of a second Trump regime.
Again, this is a foreigner view. Maybe it’s different when you actually live there, though I doubt it. But from my point of view, both parties suck extremely and unless you somehow manage to get a 3rd party to win, you’re fucked for eternity. Both parties have no reason to make anything better if they know you’ll vote for one of them anyway.
I think I’ll do some data Analysis on how much this community shits.on third parties, non voters, and Republicans relative to how much they advertise what’s good about the Dems.
Some of us are actually not Democrats or Republicans because we really think both sides are bad in different ways. I still voted though.
And some of us who are that way understand that in FPTP there can only be a winner from one of the major parties and we are choosing who we want to fight to push for changes.
I always vote for who I perceive as the lesser evil of the two. This year is no different. I’m not excited about what either candidate wants to fight for. I will oppose whoever is elected on multiple fronts.
The November elections are damage control. Unfortunately they always have been.
Howd that work out for us?
It’s still worth it to register for one of the major parties to vote in their primary and push them towards your actual politics. For example, I wouldn’t consider myself “a Democrat”, but I am registered to the party and I vote as progressive as I can in primaries.
In a lot of places, you pretty much have to register for a party to have any say in the local elections. Where I live if there is a primary for an office it is guaranteed whoever wins the Republican primary is going to win the office, so if you want to have a vote in that election you have to register Republican.
I think everyone should get a vote in every primary. If there is a Republican and Democratic primary then you should get to cast a vote for a Republican candidate and a Democrat candidate. I think this would result in a better selection of nominees for offices.
But then you don’t get to brag about your enlightened centrism.
Not all states work the same. In Ohio I can just show up and tell them which one I want to vote in each time. I always vote in the Democrat or Republican primary, I get a voice without committing to one or the other.
From what I’ve read, the two times Trump won, many Democrats felt that they were denied this choice, which left them disillusioned, and they didn’t vote. I don’t think that’s the main reason for Trump’s victory, but what you touched on was definitely a factor in the Democrats’ loss.
I wonder how many times we need this to happen for people to learn that letting others make your choices for you will often lead to your worst possible option.
voter suppression and voting are not the same thing.
a vote for third parties is as valid as a vote for a primary color.
Except when the votes literally aren’t counted.
that would be voter suppression.
which, yes, is the same thing as voter suppression.
＼(ﾟｰﾟ＼)
That’s why a big portion of the funding for parties or candidates that pull from the political left in the US are extremely wealthy conservatives, right?
no, you are incorrect.
probably your vantage point.
it’s funny how confused you guys get from concise, direct answers.
Someone baselessly gainsaying something I’ve said isn’t confusing in the slightest. And what I said is really easy to verify or refute.
Though I was perhaps not specific enough when I said strictly “funding” as that can be interpreted as strictly the money a candidate gets in direct donations instead of including paying all the moving parts of a candidate’s run including PACs, et al. that cover legal fees and organization.
“…isn’t confusing in the slightest.”
of course, you’re one of those dizzy-headed people that think super clearly.
your comments are starting to make more sense.
“Though I was perhaps not specific enough…”
certainly.
“as that can be interpreted as strictly the money…”
still irrelevant to voting being valid regardless of the party you vote for, but have fun.
I like tangents.
