This is not my personal opinion, I know Gen Z men who voted for Harris. But the voter demographics really speak for themselves, and maybe now people will look at the radicalization of young men as a serious (but solvable) issue.
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Social media. Gen Z grew up with youtubers and influencers pushing their beliefs.
in the age of misinformation and grifting mind you. it’s not just the technology, we’ve had youtube for 20 years
I hate my gender so fucking much. If every man in the US dropped dead on the 4th the world would be a better place.
Because they have a bunch of dumb opinions no one tried to address - feminists are trying to destroy video games. Women won’t date short men. Liberals are stealing girls breasts and making them trans too easily. Or giving them tattoos and making them fat. One or two chads every generation are getting all the sex, leaving them as lonely incels. Dating apps don’t work anymore. They feel insecure about masculinity.
They blame women for all this, so they’re not going to vote for one. Especially if no one’s listening or appealing to them except the orange raisin and his American exceptionalism and edgy humor.
Get someone who appeals to them if you want thier vote, don’t just sit around calling them fascist idiots, and laughing at them for being incels or Jordan Peterson fans. They need fathers and role models who actually give them structure, meaning, purpose, closure.
…someone who appeals to them. Someone who joins their story, and makes it feel coherent with their America.
That’s a pretty ignorant way to overgeneralize about a whole generation. I hoped I was leaving this kind of bullshit behind on reddit.
Every flag-emoji in a user’s profile name is a red-flag for a different mental illness.
But this is pure scapegoating. Even the most straightforward read on the turnout demographics tells us where the problem is.
Trump won the White People.
Just curious, do we get these breakdowns from exit polling or some other source?
Trump was expected to dominate the white vote. Hispanic voters were expected to be way more blue tho, especially after the recent “porto reeko” fiasco. I read that Hispanic males tended to prefer Trump but women liked Harris. The geography stats are unsurprising - more dems live in urban areas and more repubs in the smaller towns and wide open spaces. The huge surprise is that younger voters are so evenly divided. Maybe I’m just used to the constant noise on reddit that blames Trump on boomers. Now it will probably shift to “BuT ThEy GoT HiM StArTeD!”
Trump was expected to dominate the white vote.
Hmmm…
All projections I’ve seen show Trump being below the number of votes Biden got in 2020, and Harris below what Trump got in 2020. The population grew by about 6 million people during that time. Overall the total voters should have increased, yet the number of votes decreased. That just tells you people stayed home.
Every flag-emoji in a user’s profile name is a red-flag for a different mental illness.
Now that’s not very nice. There’s a mod in c/news and c/worldnews who’s username is 🌱 🐄🌱 and they are quite level-headed.
I’ve yet to see a level headed mod in either sub, but I’ll keep an eye out
I think a lot of people would say the same about you.
Remember how I showed you the Indiana ballot more than once and asked you who Hoosiers should vote for and you refused to answer? That didn’t seem very level-headed of you.
Lemmy wonders… But what about the menzzzz!!!
Because the democrats haven’t made a serious appeal to them in a decade. We need to turn bell hooks into actionable political messaging.
There is a lot to be said here. I’ll use my own experience as an example.
I’m a millennial male who had a terrible time as a young adult through my mid 30s. I grew up in a fairly religious/conservative area of the US, and I didn’t have the ability to even start questioning that before my college years because literally everyone I knew was either a vocal supporter of or tacitly accepted that cultural status quo. Mental health issues were either not discussed or not recognized in any serious fashion. It wasn’t until my late 20s that I finally understood that I had severe depression and anxiety and sought help, despite suffering from it since my early teenage years.
Socially, I never felt like I was cool enough or good enough. I didn’t understand women, and the endless series of rejections and confusing encounters only served to erode my low self confidence further. I had no idea what a healthy relationship looked like because my parents were just going through the motions at that point, and the relationships I saw in TV shows and movies were incredibly shallow. The few people I considered friends did not support me in any positive way. I eventually kicked them to the curb, preferring solitude to being the butt of their jokes.
I was a prime target for recruitment for the alt-right: depressed, alone, disaffected, and ready to lash out. The only thing that kept me from going in that direction was a keen sense that the rhetoric was bullshit and its leaders only cared to take advantage of the rank-and-file to accumulate money and power. Many people I knew were not so perceptive and became victims of that movement.
My only saving grace was that I had a decent job with healthcare benefits, which allowed me to get the therapy I needed to overcome these challenges. Again, most people I knew did not have such resources. Nearly a decade later, I am now a family man with a wife and child. I am far happier than I have been at any other point in my life. Despite that, there is still plenty I don’t understand. I don’t have a good grasp of what positive masculinity looks like. I cannot point to anyone who has served as a good, male role-model in my life. I still don’t have any close male friends with whom I can share my feelings and challenges.
However, I do understand how easily young men can be swayed to far-right crusades. Social media warped my view of reality, and it’s far worse now than it was 10-15 years ago. Moreover, there is no alternative to far-right echo chambers for young men to commiserate and get help. Those spaces simply do not exist on the left. If you dare to complain or vent, you will immediately be told your problems don’t matter and called a misogynist. I can readily call multiple conversations I had with liberals and feminists who rejected my problems, even being told that I was “living life on easy mode” because I was a man.
For all the women who are reading this, I get it. As a man, I don’t have to worry about the government meddling in my bodily autonomy. For the most part, I don’t have to worry about walking alone at night or being accosted or raped. I don’t have to worry about being taking seriously at my job or being passed over for promotions because of my gender. However, none of that negates the challenges that young men are facing. Their gender does not save them from broken homes, abuse, mental health issues, a bad job market, degrading standards of living, student debt, double-standards, confusing and contradictory narratives surrounding dating and relationships, etc. Yes, privileged men with no right to complain do exist, but they are an extreme minority. The vast majority of young men are in a bad place, and the only people reaching out to help have ulterior motives. If you want things to change, try having some empathy. Maybe you will get empathy for your problems in return.
As a Gen Z man who statistically should have fallen down the incel and alt-right pipeline but didn’t, this echos exactly what I see in my generation. We don’t have positive examples of Masculinity, and the left just yells at us that we’re trash, when we struggle with things and most don’t have many (or any) good friends to lean on. So of course they go to the alt right.
There is only really Noel Deyzel from social media as a positive role model
and the left just yells at us that we’re trash
I’m a millenial and I never got this. There must be a split somewhere when people fell into different echo chambers or algorhythms. Like 7 years go I used to frequent reddit subs like MGTOW and pussypassdenied, looking for something to connect to because of clinical single-ness. These were the only spaces I would find comments like that. On my other, left wing, socialist Internet spaces this wasn’t present. That is why those pro-men/anti-women subs never connected to me. The work on yourself, improve yourself and keep reading was great, but the insane amount of hatred and religion pushing was crazy.
Yet it feels like men in my situation these days don’t have alternatives. It’s sad when Andrew Tate is considered masculine. Terry Crews or Keanu Reeves are much better. Sure they’re not podcasters, but they give off a much better vibe.
It’s a shame that the space these men find themselves is pushing against freedom of expression for others.
I think it depends on a lot of real-life interactions, too. I had coaches and teachers and older work colleagues (including in heavily male dominated workforces, like the military) who were strong masculine role models. So when it came to media consumption I tended to gravitate towards celebrities or famous characters who already fit the worldview.
Nick Offerman played a libertarian Ron Swanson on TV, but in that fictional work the core cultural markers of manhood were explicitly presented as non-political, and seem largely shared with the left-leaning actor himself.
Terry Crews is similar, as you’ve pointed out. On Brooklyn 99 his character was presented as a loving father of young girls, who was in connection with his feelings, but also loved working out and sports and, you know, was a cop with a gun. In real life, in interviews, he seemed very much in tune with healthy masculinity and his place in the world.
Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich give off positive male leader vibes and often speak up about political and cultural issues, while largely being protective and supportive of the younger men who essentially work for them.
George Clooney is funny because he came off as a bit of a womanizer for years, but dove right into his long term relationship with a woman whose own career would arguably overshadow his. He is unabashedly and vocally a supporter of Democrats and other causes associated with the left in the United States.
Nobody is perfect, or deserves to be put on a pedestal. But there are little nuggets of positive examples all around us, including traditionally masculine men who support ideals that are more culturally and politically associated with the cultural left.
George Clooney is funny because he came off as a bit of a womanizer for years, but dove right into his long term relationship with a woman whose own career would arguably overshadow his.
George C- oh, you mean Amal Clooney’s husband. He’s some sort of actor, right? Anyway, Amal Clooney is awesome and a hero.
half joke first. nobody’s trying to meddle in our bodily autonomy, yet.
edit: i havent looked too close at it but the mensliberation space on lemmy.ca may interest you? cancermancer down bellow has a rec for r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates that looks to have another good perspective in the topic. so im sticking it right here with the other.
I’ll try to approach the topic from my perspective as well. my gender has never really be part of my internal view of myself. but it is an inescapable part of how other people will see me, and the rules are always whatever the other person wants. so maybe not the poster child for speaking on masculinity. i’m literally the default charater generator in every videogame, but it’s just a hallucinating meat suit.
talking about gender concepts and social roles was a norm growing up because i did that growing up in the weird outside groups the christian kids chased. any reference to maculinity was done at me as an attack, even when i was doing it according to the rules. i agree, there are few places for young men to explore their way out of those strict views. especially in the early years. i’ve often seen them jump straight into spaces meant to be safe for people who’ve had not great experiances with the topic, especially women. and press other people to do all the work, explain things to them and navigate their often* harsh language. and i get it. when you’ve only ever been allowed to express 3 levels of the same emotion, it’s gonna be rough sorting that out.
it’s going to be on people who have worked their way through that mind set to make those places for kids to start the process. most importantly, people who share their experiance and perspective. yes folls like me can and really need to come in there and talk openly. but my own experiance is never going to line up in a way that will connect with those kids. even when i look exactly like our experiance should line up.
…if theres more spelling mistakes then there are more spelling mistakes. fuck it thats too much text for a phone
Bodily autonomy? What’s this scar on my cock again?
Have also heard people talking about giving men vasectomies at 16 (people who don’t understand they can’t actually be undone)
FWIW I’ve only seen that used to illustrate how ridiculous it is that we find it essentially normal to have laws controlling what women can do with their reproductive systems but not men. I’ve not seen a single credible example of someone seriously suggesting this.
I’ve known a person who took that seriously and thought it was a good idea
I mean, yes, I’m sure there are people who do. There are people who think the earth is flat. They don’t influence policy though.
Edit - my point is, no one is coming for your testes, and knowing someone who thinks it’s a good idea is no better an example here than it would be for me to say I’m worried a flat earther is going to influence space exploration policy.
Fair point
fair point. sounds like theres a need for a space to have these conversations. with people effected by the topic and moded by people on the otherside of the joirney, who could have empathy in the difficult moments. anyone know of a space? i’ll try engaging where i can.
mensliberation space on lemmy.ca
I appreciate your otherwise quality comment but I have to say that I don’t intend to use a space that only views men’s issues through a feminist lens.
On Reddit, LeftWingMaleAdvocates is a solid lefty men’s space.
i spent all of a minute poking around. not a topic i deep dive in really. more hoping to pose the question of “hey do we maybe have a space like this?”. someplace where people having a shared perspective would have the patience for eachothers early questions they once had.
i’m not on reddit but a few minutes poking around there it doesn’t look crazypants. so i’ll add it to my comment too.
No that’s fair, I don’t want you to feel like I’m saying you’re acting in bad faith because I absolutely do not believe that.
nah i get it, i assumed good faith on your part as well. i skimmed through some threads in that sub and all i wanted to do was start jumping saying “guys just pause a second so we can talk about some of this language”. but thats absolutely not the place for me to do that.
it would be as productive as the guys who’d go into r/twoxchromosomes posting “explain like i’m 5 why my wife left over not doing the dishes enough”. assumimg good faith, i get he’s thinking “ok this is where other women who have done this talk, i’ll ask them”. there wasnt anyplace else to send the dude, so a few people would try responding. but it always devolved into language policing, because not doing so in that space would forfit the sub to the people it was designed to be safe from. i never commented in that space specifically because it was their sub and i was just there to understand perspectives. i was a guest in their home.
people need to be able to use the only words they know with the meaning they understand them to have. before they can do any self reflection or understand why it becomes important to adjust our language for eachother sometimes.
If you want things to change, try having some empathy. Maybe you will get empathy for your problems in return.
Funny a man has said this twice this week. Women have higher EQ than men in general - how do you think they developed this?
Extending empathy to men is not what helps men feel empathy, though. That’s not how empathy is developed. If it was, movie actors and kings etc who have empathy extended to them constantly, would be the most empathetic people on the planet. Yet they are the least empathetic.
The thing that gets men to feel empathy, is the man feeling empathy. It’s like a mental weight - you have to choose to lift it. I can’t make you do that by rolemodeling. You have to actually take time and do the work. Actually sit down and think and perspective take without projecting or objectifying. Just radical acceptance. You have to do that work. Your comment asking women to once again bear your emotional burden of empathy is silly. We can’t. It’s a skill you gotta develop. And the sooner you do it instead of thinking it’s women’s work (which is why you just asked us women to be empathetic - our assumed role), the sooner the world is less shit.
And only then can you be truly caring, empathetic, or a feminist - by examining your own actions as a man. It’s great to allow men to have a sense of community outside of toxic masculinity, but this isn’t how men develop empathy or Feminism and that’s weird to phrase it like that,as if it’s valid for men to punish women by removing rights, voting for Trump, removing empathy, and not being prosocial. In fact, that’s quite controlling and abusive.
I once saw a gif on Reddit of a little girl being forcibly kissed by a little boy (both about 6), and she shoved him off and he looked sad. The entire thousands of comments focused on the little boy’s first rejection. No one even noticed it was the little girl’s first sexual assault. She even wiped the kiss off, reminiscent of victims cleaning themselves after assaults.
When I pointed this out, people were angry. How dare I suggest that little boy is a monster. But I wasn’t. I was entirely focused on the little girl’s experience and I wasn’t advocating for anything relating to the boy. In fact, I think an appropriate “punishment” would be to explain to him to not touch people without asking etc. And that’s it. I just wanted to see her experience and make sure she was okay. Her situation is more important and critical in this moment than the little boy’s. But these men heard ‘sexual assault,’ and instead of empathizing with the victim, they empathized with the assaulter, so much so they started defending him from a nonexistent attack. Do you not see the clear problem here? Do you see the issue?
But men were so unable to extend empathy to a girl, to a woman, that they literally couldn’t absorb this information or perspective take as her. It was impossible for them to imagine what she felt like. This was like 3 years ago. It was astonishing. No, men do NOT empathize with women. Men empathize with themselves as an idealized version of who they would be as a woman - that’s projection by definition and is entirely how they feel entitled to control women and objectify them.
That was a very thoughtfully written response. I can relate to a lot of your story and agree with your conclusions. There needs to be more outlets for men as an alternative to right wing communities. I hope you meet more liberals and feminists that are open-minded to men’s hardships. I have to believe there are more reasonable people out there on the left than not.
I have to believe there are more reasonable people out there on the left than not
There are, but online is where the psychopathic man haters feel free to let their colors fly. At union conventions and community meets, I only ever hear tame comments from the very obvious radfems.
So much fucking this
Thanks for relating all that - lots of information but worth the read. You largely summed up my own early existence in the first few paragraphs. My therapy came in the form of getting involved in theatre, which exposed me to all kinds of people and ideas, revamped my attitudes and saved me from embracing radical ideas that are more or less based on rejecting a society that rejects you. I think that same cynicism is common in people from many different backgrounds, who share the same alienation for all kinds of reasons.
I’ll even add one - throughout my software career doing contract jobs, finding a new gig always took me 2-3 weeks and was very routine. When I turned 50 the 2-3 weeks abruptly and permanently became 2-3 months, and took a lot more effort. Apparently in that community I was suddenly too old. Only one recruiter let slip that age was the reason a potential client rejected me, but the sudden difference at 50 was stark. So I don’t know what you do for a living but you might be facing that yourself when it’s your time.
Anyway I totally agree about empathy. I don’t know what it is but people seem to be constantly on guard nowadays. Their go-to assumption is to look for evil and refuse to accept simple mistakes. That and permanently crucifying anybody who does anything morally unacceptable, or ever did in their past. If somebody Likes the wrong tweet it’s unforgivable and irredeemable. I don’t recall another time when so many people were so militant about this attitude. Forgiveness used to mean compassion, now it means you’re complicit, enabling, a shill, “just as bad,” etc. I think we need to think of the glass houses analogy and stop pretending to be morally impeccable.
I have to imagine if the democrats had not largely ignored these problems they would’ve won by a landslide
there is no alternative to far-right echo chambers for young men to commiserate and get help
I feel like there’s an adjacent issue where any space like that without a clear political lean quickly gets pushed rightwards by shitters
ugh I remember my last straw on Facebook was my high school alumni group becoming a shit-storm of sea-lioning and a couple folks blocking people and also spamming nostalgia-posts to drown out and push down more serious discussion. A high school famous for it’s science-focus but alas, the older (but not much older) folks were openly commenting about that black-people-crime-percentage “statistic” and gay people.
This. Men are more often victims of violent crime, homelessness, mental illness, suicides, do worse in school, incarceration, die in wars, work dangerous jobs. Classic male institutions, structures, and spaces don’t exist anymore like they used to.
Add to that that men showing emotions is still seen as weakness.
These issues aren’t addressed or even mentioned.
Men are more often victims of violent crime, homelessness, mental illness, suicides, do worse in school, incarceration, die in wars, work dangerous jobs.
The victims of other men. That’s the joke of it all. And the folks screaming loudest about being victimized are inevitably the ones quickest and most eager to take their own pound of flesh at the first opportunity.
Add to that that men showing emotions is still seen as weakness.
Primarily among other men. This isn’t a gendered issue nearly so much as it is a socio-economic hierarchy. The “excess males” problem is what’s driving the violence, the poverty, and the declining health. Young men are pressed into the social hierarchy by their elders, often from an extremely young age, through physical, emotional, and sexual violence. They climb the social ladder by proving their tolerance for abuse by those above, while exhibiting a sufficient capacity for sadism on those below. Anyone who cannot endure the abuse and find their own cohort to abuse in turn becomes the social excrement that the system exudes.
This is literally “The Patriarchy” that feminists rant about and seek to abolish. But efforts to abolish the system invoke its most violent tendencies. The result is a youth population that is selected for the most sniveling and cruel to lead it into the next generation.
When Terry Crews came out about his sexual assault. So many men publicly derided him. I felt so bad for Terry.
For the record, fifty cent, Vlad from VladTV, DL Hughley were those that made fun of Terry and some even insinuated he was possibly gay.
primarily among other men
Tell that to my ex lol
And if Feminists could differentiate between a homeless man down on his luck and a bigoted billionaire asshole, “The Patriarchy” would actually get fought, but they both have dicks and are therefore identical.
Why is this downvoted, but not the comments its responding to; wtf? But yeah, you could not be more right on the patriarchy bit. All the things being cited here are things actual feminists have known for a century. What men need, beyond positive role models, is a rebranded classical feminism. The reason you cant just call it feminism is kinda the problem. The term has been associated with misandrists, who feminist advocates tolerate way more they tactically should. Because us vs them narratives are very appealing
Feminist in general is the wrong word because it inherently sounds like placing women first, rather than treating men and women equally
I would also say that everyone regardless of gender is treated pretty shittily at the moment
I’m using the term because it…is the word for that philosophy. I’m not exactly campaigning here
You are right about that though. Men and women both get shitty treatments, the funny thing is they’re almost polar opposite experiences and both manage to suck monkey farts
I agree that much of the problem is men on men and this patriarchy - men who do not want to uphold patriarchal values can often be ostracized and demonized by those who do - but I believe OP was specifically noting that then those men who get abused and ostracized cannot speak out of seek help because many people will simply snap back at them saying that they are part of the problem and resources need to be given elsewhere. They cannot endure the abuse, and their own cohort becomes abusive, and the only way to avoid the abuse from all sides (in their view) becomes joining the “social excrement” they wanted to escape in the first place.
Angry screams tend to mask sad and lonely tears. Hatred does not end hatred; hatred ends through non-hate alone. Non-hate is not inaction, though. If we do not look at them, and ourself, with empathy and kindness and understanding and patience, they will continue living in a world devoid of and therefore ignorant to empathy and kindness and understanding and patience.
those men who get abused and ostracized cannot speak out of seek help because many people will simply snap back at them
The people they’re surrounded with who will snap back are the folks higher up the chain. Parents and older siblings, bosses and sports coaches, bullies at school, etc. The people you see “snap back” on Redpill discords are TikTok influencers none of these men knew existed a day ago.
the only way to avoid the abuse from all sides (in their view) becomes joining the “social excrement” they wanted to escape in the first place.
From the inside, you’re told everyone on the outside is out to get you. Anyone who is nice must be a predator. Anyone who is apathetic must be a bigot. Meanwhile, the people on the inside are your friends. They only want to make you stronger and tougher. The hazing, the abuse, and the exploitation are for your own benefit.
Only be leaving the insulated Redpilled world do you realize most people simply aren’t invested in the cultish behavior and bullshit ideology.
Oh absolutely, I’m pretty sure I’m on the same page with this. I only pose that to someone who believes they’ve found people who respect them, and particularly those who have felt for a long time that their voice didn’t matter, it is counterproductive to approach them and their group with outward hostility.
Telling them the people who took them in and listened to them are vile, abusive, disgusting people and are exactly the problem they say everyone says you are, is just reinforcing of their views.
Consider the comment originally replied to; paraphrase because mobile is hard, “those loudest about being victimized are the most eager to take their pound of flesh”. This can easily sound like:
- (Man) I’ve been victimized and nobody lets me voice this except for this gang/cult/militia. Cult says they should be allowed to “get support” and they know the way (it’s bad).
- (Outsider) Claiming to be a victim usually means you are a terrible person.
- (Man) So according to outsiders, if I seek help, I’m a bad person. According to my (cult etc) if I tell them, they will offer a form of support. I can stay with these people and get something of support, or I can leave them, be ostracized, and any attempts to voice my feelings will lead me to being labeled someone eager to take a pound of flesh.
They need to be shown that those on the outside understand them and are better people than those who took them in. They are with people whose form of empathy and respect is so distorted and toxic, but it’s the only model of that experience they know.
Your comment, upon my read, felt like anyone in that position would feel justified in their gang telling them that everyone on the outside is out to get them. If they already think everyone else is a predator, what is attacking their friends, their family, and their opinions, going to do?
They will only leave when they know they will arrive somewhere with the respect they craved without those toxic feelings they repressed during their time with a hateful group.
So I guess it’s less about the content of the comment, more of the way it represented the ideas, the timing, and the perceived intention.
Telling them the people who took them in and listened to them are vile, abusive, disgusting people
This isn’t a matter of telling anyone, this is a matter of people in abusive systems realizing it on their own. You can pop over to the ex-Mormon or ex-Scientology communities and find these folks in droves. Its not random anons asserting the corrupt nature of these relationships but the folks who escaped them.
“those loudest about being victimized are the most eager to take their pound of flesh”
The loudest folks are the social media influencers. You’ll regularly hear your Tim Pools and your Jordan Petersons, your James Dobsons and your Elon Musks, rant about how men are victimized by femininity, while profiting off the insecure and insulated men who have been roped into their carny acts.
They need to be shown that those on the outside understand them and are better people
The folks that profit off the patriarchy are the least willing (or, even, able) to convey an outsider understanding. They only persist by rehashing age old tropes of toxic masculinity.
They will only leave when they know they will arrive somewhere with the respect
They can only find respect when they leave. If they’re trapped in a bubble of delusion, they’re just going to get a shadow-play of Woke Liberal Virgins being mean-spirited losers and Based Trad Chads being triumphant paragons of virtue.
The patriarchy sucks for most men, that aren’t on the top. Their grievances are still legitimate and either ignored or belittled.
The men at the top maintain their position by deflecting the consequences of their exploitative policies onto the lower rungs of the ladder.
This entire comment is exactly the kind of lack of empathy that the gentleman was talking about.
Primarily among other men.
The worst I ever got for showing emotions in front of other men was being called sensitive. Women on the other hand dismissed me with fury, insulting my manhood and even hitting me.
They climb the social ladder by proving their tolerance for abuse by those above, while exhibiting a sufficient capacity for sadism on those below.
Where did you learn this fucking nonsense, gender studies?
The Patriarchy
Interesting name for it given how many men will tell you it is women upholding men’s gender roles. Men are still expected to pay for dates, to be able to support families, to have a home and a car before they’re even worth attempting to date…
I blame social media and algorithms. My teen son for the longest time was leaning further and further right due to the content he was getting served on YouTube. He was making disparaging comments about women and how stupid they are. My wife and I who lean left had to sit down and have a talk with him about what he was saying and videos that he was getting served by YouTube (that popular red pill girl, I can’t remember her name and andrew tate among other red pill stuff). He’s a pretty smart kid, once we showed him data and articles that directly proved all the things he was watching wrong, he started to come around. He’s been careful to believe things that he sees or hears on the internet more now. Occasionally, he’ll bring things to us that we have to double take and fact check to see if it’s wrong.
Men have already long been abused by the patriarchy alongside with women. In the last couple of years the so-called “liberals” claiming to fight against the patriarchy have joined in the abuse by denying men any escape from that situation
I’m a gen z male, raised in a far right Republican household. I’m a social democrat. I am progressive.
Can you please tell your entire generation to get it together worldwide? That’d be great, thanks.
Leaving this here just in case: /s
Same here. I’ve cut my entire family out of my life over this shit.
Same man. It was wild when middle school rolled around and I finally gained awareness of the world beyond myself and learned what the Republicans actually were and wanted. A friend who knew more about politics than me explained some stuff, and suddenly I had to question why my family was against progressive beliefs.
Same. I live on a ranch in a deeply red area. Voted Kamala. I’m also happy to say my conservative parents are ex-republicans.
I’m also a Gen Z male, raised in an evangelical household at a Christian school that supported Christian nationalism, and was supposed to be a strong conservative Christian but ended up turning into an atheist socialist instead. It’s kind of funny to read that Gen Z is going radical right when for me it was the opposite.
Mostly the same, i was raised to be a worthless red neck. I’m not. The issue with using our experiences is that we are people, we have an inner world and are capable of free thought. Trump’s followers aren’t.
Unironically, congrats on breaking free of the brainwashing. I grew up in an insanely red rural area and a very conservative religious family, unlearning all that shit has been a decades long process (and still continues).
Good on you. No group is a monolith
Because they’re being indoctrinated by Kick streamers like I was by YouTubers in 2015. It’s so disappointing to see the same shit that ruined me for years ruin them.
Obviously in their lives they’ve been massively influenced by social media starting from a younger age than any previous generations. And you know what kind of garbage is out there.
“Solidarity forever” applies across gender lines as well as race and other sources of disparity. I wish this could have been made more apparent to our young men, social media has them in its clutches unfortunately. Billionaires did that.
I can see why some young men might feel like the Democratic party is prioritizing women’s issues over those affecting men, especially young men. In fact, it might seem like the Democratic party is not only indifferent to struggling young men, but hostile to them. I can understand why someone might not want to vote for a party that thinks of them as deplorable, pathetic losers.
Issues affecting young women:
- Rapes aren’t prosecuted
- Government forced births
- Bleeding out in a parking lot
- Widespread misogyny
Issues affecting young men:
- Girls won’t put out
- There aren’t enough pickup trucks
- Joe Rogan is being victimized by jews
- Germ theory and masks or something
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
This is the exact kind of attitude they meant
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
I don’t necessarily know, and neither does the Democratic party, which is at least part of the reason why Trump just got reelected.
Is there a visual representation of 3. being nailed to a cross for dramatization purposes?
It’s not so much a crucifix but a lowercase letter T for his low-testosterone he’s so obsessed with
Don’t forget them just being mad at the concept of child support
Oh yeah, good point.
I don’t disagree with your issues facing women. But your issues young men face is very disingenuous
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Nowhere in this thread has anyone discussed issues that exclusively affect men. There are very few such issues and all of them are trivial.
Talk about diving people, what a prime example. What would you say if I name fashion as one of the primary female problems? Or having good pictures on Instagram?
Issues affecting young men:
- Rape reports are ignored and not taken seriously
- Not trained in the tools to deal with mental health and emotions
- High expectation to make money but low job prospects
- Jerks trivializing the fact that men have real concerns because OtHeRs HaVe It WoRsE.
It should be empathy for all. Asshat.
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Empathy isn’t a zero sum game. It is, in fact, possible to care about women’s issues and men’s issues at the same time. A woman getting the support they need doesn’t take anything away from a man, nor does a man getting the support they need take anything away from a woman.
And yet these “all ____ matter” comments only come up when someone tries to take the spotlight away from white men. Women getting the support they need has been fought tooth and nail by men for fucking ages. The group that only just got the ability to have their own bank account doesn’t owe us fuck all in politeness especially when so many of us act like goddamn degenerates all the fucking time. They still struggle to even get healthcare that isn’t designed for men.
What you’ve got in your comment is a deflection away from the real use of these things. It’s not clever, you’re just being an ass.
The original topic was about the radicalisation of men. One poster commented how it might feel that the democratic party doesn’t care about men’s issues. Another replied and tried to trivialize those issues. So some users advocate for empathy. And you reply with “but what about women?” Do women face issues? Absolutely. Arguably more than men, I don’t know. But that’s beside the point here. The topic was radicalisation of men, and a possible cause. I would argue, you’re acting like an ass right now.
And I’m pointing out that men have not been forgotten, they’re just whining because it’s not about them 100% of the time anymore and they need to get over themselves. Also, their sexism caused a lot of the problems that women face and are now having to do all this fucking work to fix.
Boo-fucking-hoo.
I don’t know the solution, but I do know that self-hatred isn’t it.
People face a myriad of assaults on their mental health every day. Virtue signaling and choosing to leave any subgroup behind just because you think someone else has it worse won’t lead to the outcome you hope it will.
Men aren’t being left behind, they’re just a bunch of fucking babies about maybe actually having to police their own behaviour. Women have been carrying the mental load for generations and now that we’re being asked to carry our fair share we do this shit.
You’re not being left behind, you’re just being a asshole.
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Also, I’m a tall straight white male. Blond hair and blue eyes and everything. I don’t feel the least bit left behind. I feel embarrassed that I may have acted a certain way in the past, and it’s hard to overcome habits and normalized shitty behaviours. Instead of running from it and blaming everyone else for pointing out how my behaviour might have hurt someone I’m dealing with it and trying to be better.
I don’t give a fuck who you are. I didn’t ask, and it’s not relevant. And whatever you’re doing smacks more of “look how much better I am than you” than “I’m truly trying to be a better person.”
Empathy makes you better, not self-hate and virtue signaling. People need help. All of them.
The bar is pretty low, it’s pretty easy to be a better person.
Also this isn’t “self-hate”. It’s called introspection you spineless little weasel. Maybe you should hate yourself a little, kickstart a little humility in there.
I agree, but you forgot the biggest one
No more third places
Your list is the issues that men are actually facing, but what OP posted is what the clout chasing “alpha influencers” tout as “men’s actual problems”.
For everyone’s sake, we need to start reclaiming men’s spaces from these Andrew Taint-wannabe’s, and towards people like you. They don’t care about anything but their bank accounts.
Influencers are the tail that thinks they’re wagging the dog. When they aren’t shilling garbage products and cryptoscams they’re spending all their time trying to find the next trend to chase. Besides the shilling, at their worst they’re merely a sounding board for ideas and issues that are already out there (and have been for a long time).
The biggest mistake the Democrat campaign made was to ignore the plight of working class, non-college educated people. To a group that’s been reeling from inflation and the major setback of COVID lockdowns, the Democrats promised more of the same. That’s not good enough! What good is student loan forgiveness to people who never went to college?
That’s been the problem for the Democrats for decades now. A party that used to call labour unions its base now focuses pretty much exclusively on college-educated middle class and up.
I just had a look at the exit polls. Of the people who said the economy was the most important use, 79% voted for Trump. Of those who think the US’s economy is doing not so good/poor (67% of voters), 69% voted for Trump.
I know lots of people here will sneer at that and Trump seems pretty unlikely to right the ship but he actually promised change whereas the Democrats did not. Promising to keep things the same when 2/3 of voters believe the economy is poor is not going to get the job done.
Yeah, and people seem to forget a key question these days: “what middle class?”
I think many men, whether they realize it or not, feel specifically persecuted by trans rights. They might say that allowing trans women in women’s sports is cheating and that it would allow the trans women to be successful in the sport over less merit than they as cis males would have to. The deconstruction of the gender/sex binary also threatens cis males’ historic position as self-assigned protectors, leaders, and winners of the “weaker sex”. There is also the phobia among men of discovering that the woman whom they want to romance is trans, which really comes down to masculine fragility and conformity that leads to homophobia (in the sense of XY + XY, not gender) and transphobia. As a cis male, these men need to get over themselves.
Many men also believe that gun control is a threat to them. They need these guns in case a fascist power ever seizes the government and they need to fight back, so they are actively voting for the fascist powers to seize the government so that they can keep their guns.
There are also men who hold prejudice against any religion except Christianity so leftwing inclusivity efforts and anti-prejudice efforts come across as welcoming these perceived threats. These men aren’t simply just the redneck Bible thumpers or even devout or practicing Christians, but they just see the most common belief system around them as the default.
It’s not that these issues are a threat to men, but that they perceive them as threats.
Imagine if you reversed the roles there and said something like issues facing women: handbag not sparkly enough or some shit
There are real issues for both men and women. The fact people think otherwise is part is the root of the problem
But I would be lying.
Look, name an issue that exclusively affects men, and I’ll amend my list. So far, no one has come up with anything.
Mental health issues being ignored by their peers and society as a whole is a pretty big one
You could claim women have mental health problems too and they do but they have spaces to talk about that
So your claim is that “mental health issues” are an exclusively male problem? Because again, the problems I listed for women affect them exclusively.
So do you see what the problem is here?
EDIT: people that downvote this benign comment are proving me right. Braindead.
You ignored part of my message, I said the problem was that men’s mental health problems are largely ignored, not that women don’t have mental health problems
So to be clear, one of the main issues that men in this country face that women do not face is that “their mental health issues are ignored”?
Who is “ignoring” these mental health issues? There’s no systematic lack of access that needs to be legislated, correct? I had absolutely zero problem getting therapy as a man. It’s a toxic masculinity thing of men themselves being unwilling to see a therapist. Correct?
“Rapes aren’t prosecuted” doesn’t exclusively effect women by any means. Also, men can get pregnant. Trans men are men.
I understand the point you’re making and I generally agree, but to suggest there are not issues that affect young men much more than young women that seriously need fixing is silly.
The insane drug war affects men far, far more than women.
And you’ll also notice that, aside from Breyonna Taylor who cops didn’t even know was there, virtually every major case involving police extrajudicial murder was of a black man.
“The drug war” is not a male-exclusive problem. That would be like saying that because men are responsible for perpetrating 99% of violent crime, violence is an exclusively male problem. Notice I didn’t say that.
Also, are you sure you want me to add “trans male pregnancy” to the list of male problems? Are you quite sure this is something your fellow men feel strongly about? Don’t be dishonest, please.
Tell me you didn’t even look at the image without telling me you didn’t look at the image.
And you also don’t seem to think men can be raped since you think it’s only rapes of women that don’t get prosecuted.
Also, are you sure you want me to add “trans male pregnancy” to the list of male problems?
I was pointing out the flaw in you claiming these were only problems that involve women. That is only true for most of them if you do not think trans men are men. Are trans men actually men?
Wonder if it has anything to do with oligarchs taking over the internet so only a select few sites run by them are popular. It can’t be just like television was to the boomers, no way.
