I posted this question on Reddit a while ago and it was an interesting discussion so I wanted to hear what Lemmings think.

It’s common for religious people to be against the above mentioned things due to their beliefs, but how common is it for atheists to be against them? What reasons would they have? How would they base their opinion if there was no belief system/religion to rely on?

I’m not trying to provoke or insult anybody with this question, and I don’t wish for people to hate on each other’s beliefs. I just think this is an interesting concept to think about.

  • @[email protected]
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    72 years ago

    I can only speak for myself, I am a centrist gen Xer and I don’t give a damn about homosexuality or abortion . I personally think they should be background noise and unimportant issues when other issues are being considered. I neither support nor oppose these issues , because I have limited emotional energy and I would rather worry about important issues.

    • forsen
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      12 years ago

      I am very similar and I agree with this, specially with the limited emotional energy. It is physically/mentally not possible to handle all the bad shit in the world; I only focus on those around me. For example, I only have one homosexual friend, but I never speak about sexual topics anyway so that never comes up. I will never take part in a gay pride parade, but I will also never stop it or oppose it. This goes on for many topics as well.

      So yeah, fairly neutral on such topics, and prefer to stay neutral. Even for topics I don’t agree on, I still try not to pick a side. “But you should be pro-X and pro-Y because of Z!”, no, take my neutrality as a sign that I am not against your existance.

    • @[email protected]
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      32 years ago

      I sort of agree. I think we should a) have gay marriage be legalized and totally equal and b) decide as a society what date is OK. Whether that’s 3 months or 5 months I don’t really care. Then make it a law and move on

      But remember, just because it doesn’t matter to me or you (I’m not gay or a woman and I’m guessing neither are you) doesn’t mean it isn’t important to a lot of folks. Abortion is something that can dramatically improve a young girl’s life for the better. Instead of raising a kid at 19 maybe she can go to college and begin a career. Not only is her life improved, we have a productive member of society.

      Of course, we lose out on population growth but I’m more of an individualist than collectivist. I think we can always just import immigrants to solve population issues.

      So I support whatever the average woman wants do with abortion.

      But yeah I agree that we focus too much on these culture war issues and not enough on economic issues. For example economic inequality or distribution of wealth.

  • Hyperreality
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    2 years ago

    Not sure about the US, but a lot of former soviet countries are virulently homophobic, despite high levels of atheism.

    China and Japan are also quite homophobic too, despite something like 80% of the population being atheist.

    Closer to home, the UK has far more atheists (google suggests almost twice as many) than the US, but is also TERF central with plenty of homophobia and transphobia.

  • 52fighters
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    02 years ago

    Every year “secular pro-life” has a fairly large contingency at the March for Life in Washington DC.

    I am myself a pro-life Catholic but I also have found nonreligious on the right are much more prone to radical and violent ideas than religious folks on the right. For example I don’t know anyone who loves Trump at my church. Some just accept him as being the highly flawed option we have in the moment whereas I know some crazy lovers of his that are absolutely without religion. My experience might or might not play out in the numbers but it is my experience.

  • #!/usr/bin/woof
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    22 years ago

    I’ve not known any. But it also seems like those things have a correlative and not causative relationship.

  • @[email protected]
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    92 years ago

    I’ve met people like that, I think those against abortion are more common and their reasoning is that the child is alive from conception or the moment its heart starts beating, and it deserves human rights from that moment. This idea is independent from any belief in god.

    Same goes for homosexuality, personally I think it’s because some men (I’ve never met a non religious homophobic woman) find their own sense of masculinity or sexual identity challenged. I’ve never met a young person like this, all the examples I can think are from people who should be at least 50 yrs old today.

    And honestly? I think it’s more of a cultural thing. I think I’ve met these types of people just as much as I’ve met backwardly religious types. In some countries you have a lot of religious thinking but not in others.

  • GreenBottles
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    202 years ago

    lifelong atheist here and I was always taught to live and let live so do whatever the fuck you want it’s your life

  • @[email protected]
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    342 years ago

    I’ve met weird people who argue that homosexuality is unnatural because it doesn’t reproduce (and apparently that is the reason for existence) and thus wrong.

    Same people ignore homosexuality in nature, that other animals in nature have members that contribute to their society without mating, and that no one cares what they think.

    But I have met them.

    • MentalEdge
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      2 years ago

      It’s not really that surprising. I’m straight, and thinking about sex with someone of my own gender, does repulse me. But it’s not really a different revulsion to thinking about sex with someone of the opposite gender, who I’m not into.

      I can totally imagine less self aware individuals observing their own feelings, and failing to account for the fact that the feelings of others may differ, and that that is fine, and doesn’t need to affect them. Even if they are otherwise secular.

      I’ve definitely met homophobic people, who literally go out of their way to feel queasy about it, when seeing it in public or the media. Mistaking their feelings for something more universal, than just their own personal sexual orientation.

  • @[email protected]
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    332 years ago

    My dad is an atheist and whilst he would never openly tell you he’s against homosexuality. He is a homophobe in almost every sense of the word, he’s had conversations with friends at the pub about how worried he was that I was gay (I’m not, I’m just not a rugby player drinking 10 pints every evening). He’s not against abortion as far as I’m aware, though I would imagine he’s in favour if only because it protects men against unwanted children.

    My brother “came out” to him to see what his reaction would be and he essentially disowned him there and then. Neither me or my brother talk to him much anymore, he’s very right wing and refuses to admit it. Failed upwards for most of his life and is quite bitter about anything existing which he isn’t 100% on board with. I think his parents were somewhat religious but not aggressively so, he went to boarding school which could have something to do with it but I don’t know any details about why he feels the way he does. If I asked him he’d just deny it despite all the evidence anyway, I think in his mind that as long as you SAY you’re OK with it you can’t be homophobic by definition

    I remember him advocating strongly for every drug dealer in existence being executed, no exceptions. I then pointed out that I would be executed in that scenario because I was suspended from school for giving someone some hash and he didn’t really know what to do with himself. Everything is jet black or bright white to him, there is very little room for any shades of grey.

  • PorradaVFR
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    32 years ago

    I would note that it’s not any part of the ethos so an atheist can be (or not) anything. A lack of faith in a deity and an absence of prescribed beliefs is precisely that after all.

    So vegan and meat loving atheists can exist precisely as much as progressive and extremely conservative ones.

    Is it likely or common? I’d venture so say I doubt it.

  • @[email protected]
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    192 years ago

    In my experience it’s less common but not crazy rare. Atheism often comes with experience challenging society’s expectations and that means you’re usually more open minded. But these opinions aren’t inherently tied to religion. I’ve met people who argue their pro choice stance from a Christian perspective (life begins at first breath is in the Bible) and I’ve seen atheists claim that distinct genetics mean that fetuses are equally alive. Homosexuality is less easy for side switching as it’s not explicitly permitted in the Christian Bible, and opposition to it on science grounds are harder but it tends to come down to unexamined discomfort and the reasoning comes later. For atheists it will be related to the biological imperative to reproduce or eugenics and social contagion rhetoric.

    Also there’s the new atheists who are basically all Alt right bigots

    • @[email protected]
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      12 years ago

      Most of the alt right bigots I’ve seen or heard of are religious too. I’m sure there are some that aren’t tho just doesn’t seem to be common

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        Well yeah, but one pathway that eventually fed into the formation of the alt right we know and hate is new atheism -> gamergate/anti SJW -> alt right. It wasn’t the main contributor to any of these things, but it is there. And like I wouldn’t be shocked if some of these people wound up Christians at some point during that process.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 years ago

          I have heard that a lot but not seen it, but I don’t surround myself with those kind of people much.

          I did New Atheism (never was really religious but Texan so… religion is everywhere in your face) > Secular Humanist while also being anti SJW because of how cringe/bad they make the left look > Gamergate… eh idk it seemed somewhat fair at first being a look at potential corruption in the game review sphere but spun out I definitely agree, though it’s hard to not feel it was co-opted or somewhat intentionally lead down a worse path for some reason.

          Idk it seems like that’s definitely the narrative I’ve heard parroted online and on news articles but, I personally went down a similar path and am basically an atheist/agnostic secular Humanist and social democracy or straight socialist advocate 🤷‍♂️

          The alt right existed prior to most of that, like the tea party in 2009

  • Schwim Dandy
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    162 years ago

    Neither impacts me in any appreciable manner so I don’t think much about it.

  • @[email protected]
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    2 years ago

    I’ve only met one who was somewhat like that: my roommate in freshman year at college, he was surprisingly conservative for a US atheist and thinks abortion should only be legal if the pregnancy is life-threatening or the product of rape/incest. And it wasn’t just that issue, he had these really weird and often messed-up takes on a lot of things to the point that one can’t completely dismiss the possibility that he might just be fucking with people by exaggerating how conservative he actually is.

    Though to be fair he didn’t seem to have anything against at least the L, G and B (heck, for a good 8 months he dated a girl who openly admitted to being bi on like day one of their relationship and their breakup had nothing to do with it) but that’s a very low bar these days, now homophobia in America is creeping towards extinction and, now down to 25% of the electorate (whereas a good 55% are unfortunately still transphobic), is little more than a middle-school phase except in a few really specific areas like Florida.

  • FuglyDuck
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    72 years ago

    I suspect it’s far less common, but I don’t have any numbers.

    It depends in large part how you define “atheist”- does this include people with religious or spiritual beliefs, but don’t believe in a diety?

    Or does it exclude the supernatural altogether?

    Regardless, personally… I don’t care. Like, yes, absolutely equal rights to love who you want. Absolutely should be codified into law. Don’t get me wrong… everyone should have that right… and equal access to healthcare, and the rights to decide what happens to and in one’s body.

    But personally… I don’t care. I don’t care if you specifically are gay, or if you’ve had six abortions in the last year. It just doesn’t matter- and it really, really Shouldn’t matter at all.

    That people are trying to make it matter… trying to discriminate and make it illegal? Yes. That matters. That’s wrong and evil. Their hatred is something that we need to stand against.

  • Gullible
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    12 years ago

    Supposedly china, a country that’s largely atheist, also has issues with homosexuality. Weird how persistent that trait is.

  • @[email protected]
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    92 years ago

    What do you. Mean by “being against homosexuality?” This can mean:

    Finding it distasteful.

    Thinking it isn’t real or healthy.

    Speaking out against it, trying to shame or stigmatize it.

    Promoting its criminalization.

    I don’t really care if people want to do 1 and 2 as long as they keep it in their heads.