Until we figure out humanoid robots all people are biological and trans women are women, so…
yknow its funny, because if you really wanted to, you could argue that the very pretense of being trans is a biological factor, since there must be something beyond what is just “social norms and rules” determing gender. Such that trans people are technically, biological women.
Just not physically. So the correct way to write this would actually be “women determined to be such as by the definition of the classical physical definition, plus the correspondingly accurate neurotypical construction that tends to align with the concept of a woman more broadly”
just rolls right off of the tongue.
Just not physically.
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
Trans people change frequently are changing their biology to match their gender.
I think that’s what KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com was trying to say.
I don’t think so. Seems like KTI was talking specifically about trans women being neurologically female (and neurology is part of biology). I’m talking about the rest of the body also being female.
My interpretation is that they were saying that the argument of trying to force people into the gender roles assigned to them based on some sort of physical attribute is dumb. And that the argument could easily be used against itself because trans people being the gender they feel is correct simply because their need to be such is a part of their physiology.
I think the example of trans women was not an attempt to limit this logic simply to them, but was just a method of communicating the idea.
I could be wrong, though. I may have just been reading it optimistically in how I’d want it to be.
I wasn’t disagreeing with that part of the argument or suggesting that were limiting the discussion to trans women for nefarious reasons. I was only disagreeing with the quoted part. Biological sex is also a social construct, so the whole topic of physically being a man or woman biologically is still in the same realm of thought as race science, so I think the topic is sort of questionable to bring up at all. But even if we want to follow that logical, some trans women have far more in common with their body with a cis women who have had a hysterectomy that they do with cis men.
I’m also not suggesting that trans women need medical interventions to be women. Just that if you tried to assume some logic to actions of transphobes (your biggest mistake), then even if you excluded neurological biological reasons, then biological sex should still allow those that meet the transmeds/truscums BS ideas at least, yet transphobes still take issue. Biological here is just a dog whistle.
Also not suggesting that said person would necessary disagree - my goal was just to add to the topic.
I mean if she wants us to break her legs, who are we really to deny her?
Menopause is going to be her karma.
I will continue to ask these morons if they’ve ever heard of homosexuality. There have been people attracted to other people they see in the bathroom since people started peeing together. Gender does not define sexuality, and neither gender nor sexuality define pedophilia.
To them homosexuality is a disease too. This one is just easier for them to justify at the moment. Once this battle is won they’ll absolutely move onto non hetero sexualities.
The only reason trans rights are a big topic now is because they started losing the war against homosexuality and so they found themselves an easier target instead.
And they will go back to homosexuality as soon as they can.
They’re already talking about it.
Yup. Pretty good indicator of a significant regress being made.
These people are obsessed with people’s genitals. Just go to the fucking bathroom. Must you go out of your way to make even taking a shit in public more uncomfortable than it needs to be?
Shut the fuck up and do your fucking job.
Many public restrooms in Iceland are unisex. These apes wouldn’t last one road trip.
Insist on big dick and small dick bathrooms for guys. Really lean into it.
What if they’re a grower not a shower? How do we sort this out we talking flaccid or erect? Can half these congress critters even get an erection without chemical help?
Breaking News: House Republicans introduce bill to install Viagra dispensers in Capitol and House office building bathrooms
I don’t care who is with me in the bathroom. I’m not there to make friends. I wouldn’t care if either Nancy Mace or Donald Trump was in the stall next to me.
Just don’t talk to me unless it’s an emergency, that’s all I ask.
I would care. Trump stinks like shit and even though I’m in a bathroom, I only want to smell my own.
I’m still trying to figure out what these people [Republicans] are doing in the bathroom. I probably don’t want to know. All can say is, when I’m trying to pee in a public restroom, I don’t really give a shit who’s in the stall next to me. I don’t care what their gender is. I don’t care what their birth gender was. I’m just trying to do my business and get on with my day.
But if they don’t wish me good luck, I don’t want to be taking a crap next to them. Sometimes you need that emotional support on the crapper, you know?
I feel like the sign should just read cunts.
Republicans will use anything to generate outrage and distract from the constant war they wage on the working class
The biggest winners of this US elections are the corporations
Regardless of party! Because we’re such a great country full of decadence that we have not one but two pro capitalist pro imperialism pro forever war parties!
“The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
Yeah that was the quote I was trying to go for but couldn’t quite remember
I had to look it up…knew what you were thinking though!
we’ll see. Media companies, gas companies and private prisons for sure win here, other corporations may suffer if they enact most of these policies:
Invading cities with the US military will destroy real estate markets. My guess is this is a bluff.
Rounding up immigrants (lets not pretend they’ll be checking documents) will destroy agricultural corps and one of the US’ largest exports
Tariffs will drastically damage consumer spending and costs for electronics (which will indirectly hike data center costs).
Tax cuts will radically increase inflation again.
Rounding up immigrants (lets not pretend they’ll be checking documents) will destroy agricultural corps and one of the US’ largest exports
Not if they take advantage of private prison structures in which prisoners are already paid like 0.15 cents to do agricultural labor in places like georgia.
The rest of this shit is maybe hype depending on the level at which it actually ends up hurting corporations. Elon’s part of the circle because he wants the tariffs because he can’t compete with BYD in any market they’ve been competing in, and he wants to foreclose things like the EV tax credits so nobody else can come up and usurp his position at the top of the market. I’m sure there are plenty of other tariffs that american corporations would be in favor of. The domestic US auto industry basically only exists in the form it does, influencing infrastructure and tons of other shit, because of the chicken tax, which was some random protectionist legislation in the 60’s.
Tax cuts will increase inflation for the bottom class, and cost of living, and probably every other metric, but nobody gives a fuck about that.
And I’m not sure to what degree the real estate market will be affected by domestic US military interventionism seeing as how we’ve already had a couple high profile marches and protests over the last 20 years that have had pretty outsized police and national guard responses, and the real estate market has done nothing but go up basically. Both up in value, and upwards into the hands of mass property management corporations and landlords.
I know everyone’s trying to stay optimistic about the sort of, incompetence of the trump regime, and the degree to which this is all just hype and drivel meant to drive the turnout of his base. I’m sure plenty of it is hype, but I’m also sure plenty of it isn’t. He still ended up appointing those supreme court justices, which has already fucked over an incredibly large proportion of stuff, and will probably fuck over everything for the next couple decades, since nobody’s gonna have enough of a spine to even threaten packing the court.
I know it’s not a very hip position right now but I think the incoming administration will turn out to be mostly hype. They’ll get bogged down trying to get the blue states to comply with some insane piece of legislation on something with no federal jurisdiction, and blame their failure to do anything on that.
I’m thinking similarly and that the Democrats will use the Senate filibuster to block as many things as they can. Of course, conservatives may end up changing the filibuster and ram through all their terrible policies, then they’d only have until the midterms to pass all the crazy stuff they want to pass. Unless they figure out an illegitimate way to stay in power and go full fascist authoritarian on us. No matter what, the next few years are gonna be terrible.
I mean they have the presidency, the house, the Senate, and the supreme court, gonna be difficult to lay the blame.
They had the same situation the first two years of Trump’s first presidency. The blame did no good.
Mostly what saved us before was the incompetence, and that’s already rearing its head again. Stupid thing to rely upon, though.
Fair point
I’m sorry, but that sounds like copium to me. Why would this fascist authoritarian regime be less successful than all of the other big fascist authoritarian regimes in history? They don’t care about the law.
So funny what issues the conservative fossil fuel media comes up with to avoid any climate actions. People discussing genitals before extinction definitely show how Darwinism was right. Humanity will die of stupidity.
Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I’m a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don’t have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who “believes being a woman”.
People will exploit this.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom
OK
People will exploit this.
Do you? Who is currently stopping you?
Why would someone who wants to batter, rape or abuse another person be stopped by an unlocked door with a little cartoon sign on it?
Who stopping?
If I try that now - I’ll get beat up if anyone sees me . Most likely cops called. Most likely immediate sex offender.
But if it’s a trans bathrooms - the people that try to beat me up will be in the wrong and arrested for being transphobic.
I’m so glad no trans person has ever been beat up because they were forced to use their birth-gender bathroom
That’s total bullshit and you know it.
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Just a reminder: this shit is being peddled by the same people who call upon cis men to enter women’s bathroom to “protect them from predators”.
A predator doesn’t need to identify as anything to walk into a bathroom. They just need to open the door and walk in.
AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? WHAT’S NEXT? MORE LITTER BOX DRAMA?
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The vast majority of pooping and being is done in gender neutral bathrooms. I’ve never been in a house that had gendered bathrooms.
Hi, trans person here.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a ‘belief’ based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being “clocked” by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don’t automatically feel comfortable using the gent’s washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn’t designed for us. Trans women I know who don’t seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there’s an individual third non gendered option that’s often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women’s spaces even if they don’t hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don’t have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don’t find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women’s washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn’t a path of least resistance move. It’s not that we “believe” we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we’re doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don’t keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women’s room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution… But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women’s room then more than likely that’s a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren’t permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a “Trans” issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against “locker room” talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won’t, because you are a coward. It’s just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I’m a woman
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women’s bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women’s restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you’d piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn’t notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let’s take your example and flip it - say you’re a trans dude, now you’re a man going into the women’s restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women’s restroom, that’s what this is doing.
I didn’t down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet “laws”, except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet “configurations” within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now “Diverse/Neutral” too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it’s very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend… a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it’s a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
Edit: Lots of typos…
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It’s literally the same energy as “if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!” Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
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Being trans is not a disability unless asshole bigots make it one.
I don’t understand why it’s necessary for trans people to have a specific place for them to go, like, at all. We have been using public bathrooms for the last hundred years. It’s never been a problem before, and it’s not a problem now. This entire thing is manufactured outrage about a problem that doesn’t exist.
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The way I see it there are only two realistic outcomes. We either let all women use the women’s bathroom (crazy concept) or we have the gender neutral communal bathroom/showers from Starship Troopers.
Yup and given that there may be already toilets for disabled people and those not urinals where penises are exposed in public, there is also privacy
Democrats should hire a staffer to stand outside of the women bathroom at the capital and have them accuse every GOP women of being a man before they go to the bathroom.
They want to play these games? Let’s show them what their crazy looks like
Need a big scary FTM trans man with a beard to loiter in the women’s washroom because they have a vagina downstairs.
It’s all about the “biology” right??
These are the same people who’d say “stop lying, you look too manly to be a trans!!!1!1!!”
AOC put it nicely, the GQP wants to do a genital check on every woman and girl that dares to go into a restroom. Can’t we just make private stalls open to anyone?
Shows who paid attention during school. You can have XY chromosomes and be born with a vagina, no genitalia, or both. You can have XX chromosomes and be born with a penis, no genitalia, or both. So biological women doesn’t mean anything in the context they are using it.
This Mace lady will do anything for attention. She once spray painted her own sidewalk to create a false flag antifa harassment narrative.
She looks like the kind of person that cusses you out when you get her order right.
Unisex bathrooms or bust
I say we push them harder, hard enough that they mandate single person unisex bathrooms, with the fancy auto room washing function they have in Japan. Then I can finally crap in peace.
