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What’s wrong with Bluesky? From my perspective it looks pretty dang wholesome. Could someone please elaborate?
It’s genuinely just people feeling the need to “pick a side”, and it’s unhelpful. Just makes the fans look like clowns.
Bluesky’s got the same vibe as early Twitter (for now). That’s awesome. Mastodon / “the fediverse” can take some time to streamline onboarding so when Bluesky gets sold to Mussolini’s ghost Mastodon will be ready to take the reins.
It failed lemmys rigid purity test.
Jumping from one frying pan into the next.
lucky for us, we aren’t running out of jumps.
I like Masodon but the user experience on Bluesky is easier and great block tools too. I don’t mind Mastodon not being mainstream, it is kinda good to have niche parts of the net still.
Nice profile picture! Do you have any suggestions of content to find on Mastodon? I’m pretty new there and I can’t find anything interesting when I open the app.
Try going to the home page of instances of accounts you like (or of instances that seem interesting) and browsing their federated feed (tap globe for “live feed” then hit “all”), you can discover tons that way.
As a general mastodon instance mas.to looks good and is a nice size with a good stable history.
You can find established, more established instances on the fediverse by surfing around a bit fedidb
Its got faults but it’s currently where the big batch of users seems to be going and since some of my interests are pretty narrow that means a lot more to read and see in those interests (or it exists at all). That’s kinda hard to ignore tbh. Its not right wing infested and I’ve already got elon, musk, trump and a bunch of other stuff auto filtered.
I feel like you guys are addicted to letting perfect be the enemy of good. Yes, Bluesky being corporate run will probably be an issue down the line, but if it becomes mainstream then people will be used to seeing .APP.INSTANCE and feel more comfortable with the fediverse interface, which I know at least for me was a big hurdle. Like seriously, the fact that the next big thing is federated, even if in name only, is a big step forward.
Bluesky is such a huge improvement over twitter and so many people are just ignoring that. Yes, the app is centralized, but you can still host your own data if you choose. Plus, the customizable feeds, algorithms, and moderation lists are all great.
Half a loaf is better than no loaf
the irony of a bsky supporter complaining about being judged because it’s not perfect.
I genuinely have no idea what you’re implying lol
I think he accidentally called you perfect.
That’s the only interpretation I’m getting from it
Imo sorry, but you are literally the reason why the fediverse has a bad name. Stop gatekeeping stuff or asking others to do so and just defederate if you don’t like it.
Expecting perfection is a huge problem in all aspects of life. People just want instant perfection and aren’t willing to work towards it. Then there’s just apathy and that leads to stagnation or worse regression.
Ohhh that’s your profile pic, I was really confused how you got verified haha
Oh no I’m definitely verified.
Yeah I’m a huge believer in federated systems but I believe that a lot of ‘normies’ going to bluesky is a huge step in the right direction. Even though most don’t know anything about the tech behind it and migrate because twitter has become a bot infested right wing hell scape, they still are one step closer to being fully integrated to the fediverse.
Bluesky’s ActivityPub support is also leagues better than Threads because of Bridgy Fed. At least a Bluesky user and a Mastodon user can follow each other and have a back-and-forth conversation.
please don’t bridge bsky to fedi.
Why not?
because I asked nicely
Well you can nicely ask your instance admin to block Bridgy Fed
Because how else would we feel superior?
Yeah exactly! I’ve even used the bridge yesterday since I’m on Mastodon, and my girlfriend just migrated to bluesky after hearing about the exodus. The process is really easy and only takes a bit of time for some of the DMs to get sent, but otherwise I have no complaints!
I fully expect this to go away as soon as bluesky overtakes other platforms in users.
Lol
I don’t understand what anyone uses twitter, bluesky or mastodon for anymore. I used twitter to follow companies (like CoffeeStain) or YouTubers/Artists.
Bluesky has some of that, meanwhile mastodon is just a circle pit of yelling and also the same stuff I see on Lemmy.
I don’t understand what people use it for. There’s no information to follow like company game accounts for games I play, and when I tried to do goofy shitposts like old twitter i got a grand total of 0 likes.Yeah that’s why I’m on Bluesky. Twitter was always just a “check whether company XYZ said something about their servers being down”-place.
And Bluesky has a lot of these companies now. A few government places OTOH are on Mastodon. I have both, but both exclusively in this capacity.
Sic cat pics
I use masto for myself, not for likes. I use it to get SilentSunday and Mosstodon photos and to goof around with people I meet in the online space.
Sure it’d be nice to see a like or a response to a shit post, but for that you need to be followed by people who share your sensibilities, as there’s no algorithm boosting your stuff into other people’s timelines. Unless you use a relevant hashtag that’s being followed by others.
I moved from Twitter to Mastodon when Elon bought Twitter. I think what you saw on Mastodon was a product of what you were following (people and hashtags).
The other nice thing happening somewhat recently is that I can follow Bluesky (through a bridge) and Threads (some accounts now, more as federation between the platforms matures).
Not being able to follow the brands you want is just a symptom of them not being on these platforms yet. I follow a few news outlets, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kagi search, Vivaldi browser, Cloudflare, Mozilla, The Internet Archive, etc.
I’m hoping more show up on these platforms with time and that BS and Threads actually do integrate more fully with Mastodon.
If Mastodon wanted to be preferred, it should have been better. I moved to Mastodon over a year ago when the Twitter sale first happened. It was not great then and it’s gotten slightly worse since. I created a Bluesky account two days ago and it already offers exactly the experience I missed from Twitter before Elon.
Would it be better if Mastodon was good and the federated FOSS option was superior? Sure, absolutely. But, that scenario isn’t even close to the case we are presented with.
I’ve been a heavy Mastodon user for two years, and I honestly don’t see why so many people on Lemmy give it so much shit. Certainly not in favour of the likes of Bluesky.
I get WAY more engagement with my posts on there than I ever did on Twitter. And maybe I’m just at an age where I don’t give a shit about celebrity, but I couldn’t care less that all the Big Names have gone to Bluesky and Threads. It’s great not seeing the same people being shared into my TL all the time.
I’ve got a bsky account too but I get way more engagement on my fedi accounts. I’ve been building up my follows for 15 years on the fedi so bsky never had a chance to catch up. it probably never will.
15… Years? On the fediverse? How’d ya manage that without time travel?
Friendica and GNU Social/StatusNet date back to 2010. That’s nearly 15 years ago. Diaspora is also from around the same era, which IIRC was aiming to be something more like a decentralized Facebook (with groups and stuff) rather than just status updates like Twitter.
Huh, didn’t realise it was that old. TiL I guess.
The fediverse is older than mastodon.
Can you give actual examples?
I feel the only thing that Mastodon ‘misses’ is some feed to get you addicted.
Seconded, some specific examples would be helpful.
Which is precisely what makes people actually use twitter
Might be paranoid, but I feel as if alot of the anti-mastodon sentiment is astroturfing. Might just be me and my schizo anti-corpo mind though.
the astroturfing is happening but don’t fall into the trap of thinking that makes it less real. astroturfing works or they wouldn’t do it.
If the userbase of mastodon is even remotely similar to that of lemmy, I sure as fuck am glad I joined Bluesky instead
My Mastodon experience is far more pleasant than that of Lemmy.
My sense is Mastodon is far less left leaning (but still left of center) but it may just be a product of who I’m following and the tags I’m following.
I would love to have an unbiased Lemmy. But this is filled with mostly extreme far left people I talked to. I also get down voted any time I mention most people don’t use Imperial/Fahrenheit, except 5% of the world. Lemmy feels kind of hostile for open discussion.
Have you considered that US standard unit users know that and it’s just annoying when someone points it out unnecessarily for the hundredth time?
Yeah, I think I saw that post.
Lots of “it’s OK when we do it” sentiment.
I’ve noticed the majority (or at least the vocal ones) don’t really stand on principles such as free speech. And I don’t mean as in a “free speech” Lemmy instance. I mean in terms of inalienable rights.
To many here, things like that are only for the “good” people, as determined by them.
My sense is Mastodon is far less left leaning (but still left of center)
Begging the question of what you think constitutes the political “center”, given how fash everything has become.
The actual center, which never moves even as extremists come and go, would be a little to the right of Elizabeth Warren, though not by much.
The actual center, which never moves
???
Public opinion never changes?
This guy Overton windows.
I’m too tired to hash that out with you.
Might be cause you’re bouncing between so many social media services
You’re always welcome to go back to Reddit if you don’t like it here.
You’re not, though. Reddit is Bots Only
Everyone something something bot
Reddit’s core business model from day one was to fake engagement. This isn’t calling your nan’s IMs a cyber attack. We’re talking about a community that’s been outted repeatedly for hosting artificial content.
I did. The userbase in most of the subs there is warmer, not hostile, and much, MUCH less gatekeepy.
If lemmy ever wants to grow and actually succeed, I don’t see it happening with people acting like they are acting now.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience except people are anti blsky and reddit. That isn’t hostile.
I’ve had terrible experience with mainly tankies, which infest this site to its core. That was what mainly made it so hostile. Aversion to bluesky and reddit made it very gatekeepy
I’ve had less toxic experiences on reddit. Here I’ve had people use my post history to insult me and I even had some jackass respond to me 3 months later after some change Firefox did to “prove” he was right. Even though he was still wrong. Not to mention the tankies and other troll instances. I deleted my account on reddit years ago due to the toxicity there and I still find it less toxic now than Lemmy whenever I lurk there. Lemmy is dying because of the toxicity here. My subscribed feed used to have at least an hour or two of content to look at but it’s slowly been less and less, and mostly just automated bot posts now. I spend less than 10 minutes a day here now because there’s just nothing here. And I know someone is going to be a dick when replying to this and I’ll just have to block 2 or 3 people again.
When Reddit happens to pop up on Google search results for something, I sometimes check my old account inbox. There have been two separate accounts replying to a years old anti-pseudoscience post of mine saying that if I don’t believe the moon is plasma, then I won’t be right with Jesus. Yes, really. Only one of them knows how to properly capitalize sentences, so it’s definitely two separate people.
At least on Lemmy, blocking two instances cuts out most of the tankie crap and the experience becomes immediately better.
lol you called dude a “Fucking retard” for posting a link on a 3 month old comment thread that you could have just ignored.
I generally look at someone’s comment history before replying to them to see if it’s even worth a reply. The internet has been and always will be (without heavy authoritarian moderation) full of trolls, Bad Faith Actors, and idiots. Block everyone, cry victim, whatever makes you feel better. Maybe if you keep running into assholes and trolls you should reflect on your comment history and how you interact with people online. The kind of comments you feel the need to comment back to (because you don’t need to comment on anything, like ever) you don’t need to.
It’s wild that you don’t have the self-reflection to realize that your comments calling people “retards” and “morons” perpetuate the same toxicity that you’re complaining about.
Welcome to the Internet though.
You’re the problem and exactly the type of person to block so thanks for proving my point.
I also want to point out how you could’ve just not responded instead of trying to pick a fight. Also even more irony how you claim I don’t have self reflection but then you come in and do the exact aggressive behavior that I explained in my post but none of you ever stop to think that just maybe I don’t care anymore about being nice on this app due to you people. Get over yourself.
Buddy, your comment history is covered with you lashing out like child at others who never interacted with you directly. You’re absolutely the problem.
If you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes.
Another idiot to block. Again you people just keep proving my point by picking fights.
I’m not the one complaining “people are mean”. You’re either a troll or incapable of self-reflection, which is why your “block list” is just going to keep growing and growing, and you’ll never learn or change.
Good luck on your journey though.
“Write a bit about yourself to join this server and if we decide you’re too boring and normal we’ll reject your application and say you’re a spammer afterwards”
Hmm I wonder why normies aren’t flocking to these fediverse platforms, what could be stopping them, couldn’t be the shitty onboarding process could it? Nah asking people to apply is the best onboarding process ever (obvious big ass /s)
Tbf it’s a good way to keep the laziest of shits out
Agreed. If someone can’t be bothered to write two sentences, they really have no business being on a discussion platform. Because clearly they won’t be contributing much if anything to the conversation.
What percentage of people who join platforms like Twitter or Bluesky actually post anything though?
Great, so you want to join a club instead of a social media? Is that it? Because that’s what you’re advocating for, small private clubs which most normies don’t have enough interest to join, out of fear of being rejected or just being rejected multiple times anyway. “Wonder why it’s so empty here?” -Lemmy Users trying to figure out why their exclusive Lemmy clubs haven’t taken off.
Most people aren’t satisfied with Lemmy’s very small and stagnant growth, and I can say I’m one of them, asking people to prove their worth and rejecting them for being a normie is a horrible strategy for growth.
So many of the people who are most invested in federation are a contradiction in terms; centralized social media is evil and it’s fucked up that it’s the norm, but also anyone who isn’t a cynical, crotchety Gen Xer with a tech degree doesn’t belong on federated social media.
Talk shit about normies all you want but they’re most of the people who repost memes and give communities life, you can’t cut them out and expect to have a thriving community. These practices of elitism and exclusion are the reason why Mastodon and the fediverse as a whole are stagnating.
Users don’t cost much to keep around, especially if they don’t post. The data needed for the account would be authentication data, and post data, the second of which doesn’t apply to users who don’t post, and the first one being negligible compared to the amount of space available on a common hard drive. So, why not just give them a chance?
The proponents of application registration are elitists who believe that the Fediverse should be run like the most toxic and exclusive club ever known to man, like, the kind you see in movies with bouncers who will assault you for walking past the place, not even trying to get inside.
They try and argue about network health, and continue to bring up the boogeyman of spam, but the reality is that they are elitist and want a specific user group on the Fediverse while keeping everyone else out, and they want everyone else to do it too. The fact of the matter is that what they are doing and encouraging is more harmful to this place than anything else, because without normies, this place is a ghost town.
Oh and spam can be dealt with without kicking out normies, I’ve outlined that systems which automatically ban spammers and purge their spam would work mostly the same as they do on the big tech platforms that almost without exception have open registrations. So stop using the spam boogeyman, it’s an invented problem to justify your elitism and we see right through it.
Elitist neckbeards like you are why Mastodon and Lemmy are still boring
I DON’T RECALL GETTING A PAYCHECK TO POST
It also acts as a filter to keep threat actors and spammers out. Open sign ups are actually a bad thing for the overall health of the network. Yes it also keeps out the lowest common denominator normies but those aren’t exactly the ones who contribute to the network as a whole anyway
This isn’t capitalism, there isn’t a need for growth for growth’s sake. There does need to be a more simplified way to onboard users but not at the cost of the health of the network.
Open sign ups are actually a bad thing for the overall health of the network. Yes it also keeps out the lowest common denominator normies but those aren’t exactly the ones who contribute to the network as a whole anyway
This is an elitist mentality that harms the health of the network on its own by limiting the amount of people who interact on the platform and post. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, turning the Fediverse into a club is a horrible way to create a platform where people interact with each other like a social media, because the nature of clubs is that they are small and exclusive.
This isn’t capitalism, there isn’t a need for growth for growth’s sake.
Please don’t mischaracterize the demand for having people interacting on the platform and with as something capitalist, or big tech only for making money, it’s disingenuous because people want to have their posts seen by other people, why else would they even post them publicly? Having more people makes a platform more lively, and having more people voting makes content shift and flow.
Let’s face it, small exclusive clubs are one of the biggest reasons Fediverse hasn’t taken off. And it makes sense since if you don’t let normies in and treat it like a club the place will be dead as fuck and have very few people interacting. Only reason its active now is because many instances used to be open and gained userbases.
There does need to be a more simplified way to onboard users but not at the cost of the health of the network.
No, we don’t need something new and convoluted, that’ll just push out the normies who want to be here or make them not want to. We need to take the page out of big tech’s book, let people and spammers signup freely, and ban the spammers automatically. No one wants to do this, they want to invent new solutions that are unfriendly, or just kick out normies and then complain that this place is sooooo dead. Stick to what works, it wouldn’t have been done that way on the OG centralized social media if it didn’t work.
Also don’t conflate assholes/trolls with spammers, that’s disingenuous as fuck both because you are over-inflating the spam problem to make your elitist solution seem more appealing and also because the solution does not work for both types of people. You’re not going to stop all or even most assholes or trolls by asking them questions, they can lie dumbass have you forgotten that or do you think Instance admins are divine beings who can’t be lied to, if Reddit admins aren’t Lemmy admins sure as fuck aren’t. Some of the biggest assholes I’ve met on Lemmy are on instances with applications, it DOES NOT WORK AGAINST THEM.
I appreciate your take and the thought put into the reply. I don’t mean to gatekeep the fediverse to keep normies out because that isn’t my desire at all. Merely my stance is while I believe that low engagement is very undesirable, high volume of scammers/spammers are equally undesirable.
I’m also thinking of things from a moderator/instance owner point of view where trying to defend your instance from illegal activity, spam, and harmful content is greatly increased by having open sign ups. If the majority of engagement on your posts are from pussy in bio accounts then that is a put off from the end user as well.
Trolls and assholes will always get through if they are motivated enough, fediverse platforms usually gives the end user enough tools to block them.
Your perspective has a lot of valid points as well, I think that there is a compromise somewhere that is slightly more effective than a simple captcha that could also streamline onboarding and validating users. I don’t know if it’s as easy as you suggest to ban spammers automatically but I’m all ears for hearing solutions. I think the fediverse is especially equipped for cooperation that could make that kind of automoderation more successful than on legacy socials
I don’t want the fediverse to be an exclusive club, I am already annoyed about how things can be an echo chamber even worse than legacy socials here at times. My hope that bridges and utilities will come that help people follow each other from bluesky/mastodon and allow account migrations from either as well.
I’m also thinking of things from a moderator/instance owner point of view where trying to defend your instance from illegal activity, spam, and harmful content is greatly increased by having open sign ups. If the majority of engagement on your posts are from pussy in bio accounts then that is a put off from the end user as well.
I don’t particularly agree that it’s “greatly increased” by it. I’m on a server with them and I don’t see that much many more spammers. It seems like fearful hyperbole, I’m not saying there aren’t any I’ve certainly seen a few but it’s not as common as most people think it is.
Your perspective has a lot of valid points as well, I think that there is a compromise somewhere that is slightly more effective than a simple captcha that could also streamline onboarding and validating users. I don’t know if it’s as easy as you suggest to ban spammers automatically but I’m all ears for hearing solutions. I think the fediverse is especially equipped for cooperation that could make that kind of automoderation more successful than on legacy socials
Proof of Work Captchas are very effective when it comes to stopping or slowing down bots, while not impacting regular users much if at all. As for banning spammers automatically it is very easy to set up scripts that ban people for rapid posting, malicious links (bio, posts, comments, DMs), as well as words or phrases associated with spam (buy my Tshirt, check out my OF, see my pussy in my bio). For illegal content, image hashes can be used to automatically purge images and data that is known from the server, while simultaneously banning the people doing it. Rate limiting of suspicious IPs are also another way. There’s probably some more ones that can be done, as well as ways to improve these methods, point is they aren’t new, and they improve the situation for new users who can sign up easily and instantly without worry of rejection or too high expectation.
The big thing about these (except for captchas and PoW) is that they are post-signup methods that catch the people doing it in the act. It might seem like a loss for some since you don’t stop them from signing up at all but you need to remember. Spammers don’t give up, they don’t stop, they don’t care, real normie users do though. You can increase the bar and make them seem to disappear, but then you also lose the flow of real users, as most of them are filtered out or quit. Detecting and purging them automatically is the best way to combat them, captcha and PoW stop people using scripts for batch signup but banning them automatically when they start. If done right, spammers would be auto-banned after a few seconds of spamming or account setup depending which flags they trip first.
I don’t particularly agree that it’s “greatly increased” by it. I’m on a server with them and I don’t see that much many more spammers. It seems like fearful hyperbole, I’m not saying there aren’t any I’ve certainly seen a few but it’s not as common as most people think it is.
My mastodon instance rarely ever sees spam despite having open signups either. Maybe my problem is I’m worried about future problems rather than the current state of how things are. My concern comes from personal experience with legacy socials like facebook and twitter when it comes to spam that I report and the frustration of when I get the automoderation notification back and they determine it didn’t break their guidelines.
I don’t want the cesspool of spam to become a problem on the fediverse as these experiences were a major reason I decided to join it.
I appreciate your comments again. You’ve softened how I feel on the challenge of balancing open user sign ups with moderating malicious users.
At least on the Fediverse when it comes to that most platforms will take spam more seriously than monopolized media, since even if they ignore their users they’ll listen to other admins, and if they don’t they become less popular. But there needs to be an initiative to improve on what big tech as done, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
I tried to join Beehaw simply because a reddit community I was actively part in went there.
I got told that’s not a valid reason to join, and that further applications from me would be ignored. I mean… okay? Sure… guess I’m no longer part of that community.
Does beehaw no longer federate? Otherwise you can reach that community from lemmy.world and be a part of it you know.
No, they don’t federate any more at all I think.
Beehaw sucks, they embraced the exclusive club mentality harder than anyone else.
You don’t have to do that when you sign up for mstdn.social, and it’s also not a requirement for mastodon.social And there are more instances where you don’t have to apply like that.
But when it’s asked that you apply to the server, it’s usually to ease the load of moderation, to see if you would fit the vibe of that instance. And/or to protect the more vulnerable people on that particular instance.
deleted by creator
How did you decide which email provider you were going to go with? Did you set up your own server? Or perhaps gain access to an address through a community? Or did you go with a normies server like Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail?
Honestly? I needed a Gmail account anyways, so I might as well use that. Same hammer-analogy, not going to buy a new one while mine is working.
I wasn’t talking about that, I was talking about your objection of “the requirement to select anything in the first place” with regards to a Mastodon server.
With that in mind, if email were to be released today, it’d be deemed “too hard for people to understand” because you have to choose what email provider you’re going to use. Are you going with AOL, or are you going to roll up your own? With some you even have to hand over money before you get access. Just too difficult!
Deemed by who? People who don’t want to adopt new things? It’s not too hard they just don’t want to do it and will make any excuse not to.
Yes and no. It was already rejection at the selection stage back then, but you luckily never had to. You got one from your ISP, or your university, and you just used that. Sure, some techies had their own mail server or so but it’s just mail, just use what you got was enough for the vast vast majority of people.
You’ve got mail!
You don’t have to do that when you sign up for mstdn.social, and it’s also not a requirement for mastodon.social And there are more instances where you don’t have to apply like that.
Yes, and we need much more like that if we want this platform to be sucessful as a whole. Normies want to join social medias, not clubs.
But when it’s asked that you apply to the server, it’s usually to ease the load of moderation, to see if you would fit the vibe of that instance. And/or to protect the more vulnerable people on that particular instance.
We all know or should know that running a platform like a club where people need to apply and have their worth manually determined is a toxic and unwelcoming environment that does not promote any kind of growth, and the fact that it is common and encouraged is not helpful to the fediverse long term. It just pushes normies away. Because a social media doesn’t ask people to apply, a club does. Most people don’t want to join small exclusive clubs.
Yes, and we need much more like that if we want this platform to be sucessful as a whole. Normies want to join social medias, not clubs.
Why? There’s plenty of general servers aimed at normies that don’t require you to write an essay about yourself.
Let those specialty servers be specialty servers. Some only want artists, some only want neurodivergent people, some only want trans people on their platform. That’s their right! They get to decide who comes on their platform and who doesn’t. It’s not up to you to decide that for them. You need to understand that the people hosting these servers are not gazillionaires that do this out of the kindness of their hearts, they want to foster a certain atmosphere and a certain community on their server, and they do their best to keep disruptive people out. And one way of doing that is by limiting who gets on.
So instead of desperately trying to join blahaj_artists.social, why not join normies.social like mastodon.social or mstdn.social, or mastodon.coffee or any of the other ‘normie’ mastodon servers.
Go here, select “Sign up process: instant” and choose any of the servers on that page, and you’ll get in, without having to write an essay about yourself.
The vast majority of users are on general instances without demands like that. If you don’t want to join an exclusive club, just pick a sever that is not intended to be an exclusive club (I.e. nearly any of the big ones).
The top 3 servers on Lemmy are private clubs as of now, they may not have been before but they certainly are now. There are barely any for normies to join. I only found discuss.online because I was lucky enough to, and lets face it this is the only real option because the other one has a swear in the name and most people won’t want to join an immature server like that.
You can’t just pick a server, your options are severely limited, if discuss.online goes away or converts to a club too, there won’t be any options. You can’t “just pick a sever” that only works if you have choices. This is the last one, after that no more choices.
The conversation here is about mastodon
Good point, On Mastodon there are a handful more options but it’s generally not much better over there. Point is the Fediverse is suffering from becoming a collection of exclusive clubs rather than a social media platform.
Many Lemmy instances are requiring their users to apply for an account.
Yeah it’s actually a much bigger problem here than it is on Mastodon. Probably will end up slowing adoption of Lemmy in the future. Especially considering Lemmy is one of those platforms that really needs normie content and normie interaction to keep going, something it’s really struggling at currently.
And that makes it better how?
It doesn’t that was the point of my comment, it is sarcastic, because asking normies to write about themselves then manually determine their worth before they join will exclude the vast majority of them. Applications are how you run exclusive clubs, not a social media platform. Which is the biggest reason the Fediverse sucks for regular people.
I don’t want to join a club, I want to join a regular platform. That’s why I joined discuss.online and not any of the other exclusive club instances.
Yeah. I somehow caught that. I wasn’t responding to you.
It lowers the barrier of entry which may deter some people who just want to check out the space first.
Granted, it also makes it more accessible to scammers, so give and take really.
I just created this account. I went to Lemmy.world to make a new one and it said I need to fill out an application. I laughed. Get out of here with that nonsense.
It is bullshit and it will hurt Lemmy and the fediverse greatly in the long term since they’ve effectively crippled the onboarding process and turned their instance into a club.
After initially hesitating, I decided to join Bluesky after having previously tried Mastodon and permanently leaving Twitter. While I was initially reluctant because Jack Dorsey had sold Twitter to Elon Musk, I still created a Bluesky account. I later came across Jason Koebler’s article on 404 Media, which validated my choice. His arguments aligned with my own reasons for preferring Bluesky over Mastodon. Link to the article: The Great Migration to Bluesky Gives Me Hope for the Future of the Internet.
404 is just mad because we mocked them relentlessly for not using content warnings on their goatse posts.
People who genuinely think like this (as in, that users going to Bluesky is somehow bad, surprising or something only stupid people do) are the very reason systems such as Mastodon cannot work. And sadly they naturally pervade such systems, at a development, administration and user level.
I will have to agree, what I see is people on the fediverse always talking about how others should join it and complain when people have the free will to choose other options. So far, it’s been painful to find a Mastodon instance, because the whole thing doesn’t feels intuitive, it’s hard to differentiate them, and all the topics that go on the honepage are just politics and people mentioning other platforms.
Mastodon may or may not be good (I don’t use it), but the fact that it segments off users into different groups means it will never be a twitter replacement. The fact that twitter is essentially “public” and all sorts of people from different areas interact was basically the whole point of it.
Bluesky seems pretty nice so far and it has real momentum. Mastodon seems more along the lines of what Google+ turned into.
I’m just dreading the inevitable monetization. These spaces are fun in their alpha state. But it’s just a matter of time before there’s a “Let AI help you spam Shrimp Jesus to your friends” button and a “Pay $5 to override the Block function” feature.
Why must you malign shrimp Jesus so
what do you mean?
sure, but what are you talking about? your post could apply to anything
Can you explain what you mean?
Mastodon doesn’t silo its users, that’s what federation is for. Everything you post on the public timeline is essentially public for everyone that’s on a federated instance that hasn’t gotten blocked.
I would argue siloing is easier on bluesky - block list manager drama can definitely have a similar effect to user admin drama. The thing mastodon does poorly is discovery. The fed and local feeds are nonsense on Masto. Imo it should be replaced with local admin/user curated topical feeds and top cross server topical feeds.
Mastodon requires far more effort to create a new feed than bluesky, and that’s the major problem.
You can run your own relays, the obstacle is that each relay takes up many terabytes. But it’s fully open.
https://github.com/bluesky-social/pds
https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/entries/Notes on Running a Full-Network atproto Relay (July 2024)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42094369
https://docs.bsky.app/docs/advanced-guides/firehose
https://docs.bsky.app/docs/advanced-guides/federation-architecture#relay
Mastodon is gatekept to hell and back, the technicalities of federation are exposed to the user for some reason (you already lose half your potential user base right there), infighting between instances means that you won’t see the entire discourse of a post depending on which instance you’re at…
And besides all that, bsky is not as “corpo” as mastodon fanboys make it out to be. They’re on track to open up to privately hosted instances as well, and you can already run most of their backend stuff yourself.
As much as I like the ‘decentralized’ stuff, the technical part of federation should NEVER be exposed to the end user if you want the platform to be mainstream. I still don’t understand why a lot of federated projects think it’s a good idea to expose that to the end user.
Whenever Lemmy or Masto gets a flood of new users, a portion of them never make it past the instance selection and totally bail.
The user experience was designed by people who literally respond to user feedback by telling users to commit new code to the project.
It’s clearly designed by engineers who assume other users will be just like them.
This of the core of the problem. Github energy.
Fine for a hobby. Not good enough for a public-facing product.
Now take all of these replies. THIS is what they don’t understand. All of these replies tell exactly how I feel about this.
The project was started as an architectural thought experiment, not with the goals and limitations of the end user.
If bluesky ever becomes actually federated, won’t it have the same problem?
The way sign up currently is, probably not. It would still default to bsky.social and your average person isn’t going to think about it.
But then it’s not federated. It’s all on one giant monolith of a server. Perhaps the traffic is shared between machines, but that’s not the same thing as federated.
Below is how account portability work between servers, it is easy to migrate between servers.
Account portability
We assume that a Personal Data Server may fail at any time, either by going offline in its entirety, or by ceasing service for specific users. The goal of the AT Protocol is to ensure that a user can migrate their account to a new PDS without the server’s involvement.
User data is stored in signed data repositories and verified by DIDs. Signed data repositories are like Git repos but for database records, and DIDs are essentially registries of user certificates, similar in some ways to the TLS certificate system. They are expected to be secure, reliable, and independent of the user’s PDS.
Each DID document publishes two public keys: a signing key and a recovery key.
Signing key: Asserts changes to the DID Document and to the user’s data repository.
Recovery key: Asserts changes to the DID Document; may override the signing key within a 72-hour window.
The signing key is entrusted to the PDS so that it can manage the user’s data, but the recovery key is saved by the user, e.g. as a paper key. This makes it possible for the user to update their account to a new PDS without the original host’s help.
A backup of the user’s data will be persistently synced to their client as a backup (contingent on the disk space available). Should a PDS disappear without notice, the user should be able to migrate to a new provider by updating their DID Document and uploading the backup
What other server is there?
Probably not. Currently it seems on track that you’re always first on their main instance. If you’re technically inclined you could then start hosting a federated part yourself (or joining one), but this does not change that the actual entry experience is exactly the same as on Twitter, hence why transition is so insanely smooth and painless.
Dude, do you even email?
I think a lot of the attitude I saw on mastodon about this like a year ago was one of suspicion that they wanted an open network but didn’t use the fediverse standard
I assume the main reason is that ActivityPub is a mess and quite overcomplicated for bsky’s needs. Being permanently tied to it seems like a big risk. There’s no reason why they couldn’t make a compatibility layer later and hook into it.
Which AFAIK isn’t a standard, so… 🤷
ActivityPub is a W3C standard, though.
Oh I dis not know that! Interesting! Thanks for the correction.
