I am a long term GrapheneOS user and would like to talk about it. r/privacy on the redditland blocks custom OS discussions which I think is very bad for user privacy, and I hope this post will be useful to anyone who are in the hunt for better privacy.
Nowadays smartphones are a much bigger threats to our privacy and Desktop systems, and unfortunately manufacturers has designed them to be locked down devices with no user freedom. You can’t just “install Linux” on most smartphones and it is horrible. And most preloaded systems spy on us like crazy. That was why I specifically bought a pixel and loaded GOS onto it.
According to https://grapheneos.org/features , they start from base AOSP’s latest version, imptoves upon it’s security and significantly hardens it. There’s hardened_malloc to.prevent against exploitation, disabling lots of debugging features, disabling USB-c data, hardening the Linux kernel and system apps etc. They even block accessing the hardware identifiers of the phone so that apps cannot detect whqt phone you’re using. That means with Tor and zero permissions given, apps are anonymous.
Compatibility with apps are best in Custom ROMs but there are still that can’t work, especially if they enforce device integrity. Very few apps usually enforce that tho. Also their community isn’t the friendliest but you can get help. Just don’t try and engage too much or have too many debates.
Anyone else here use GrapheneOS, or any other privacy ROMs? What is your experience? Do you disagree on any point? Let’s have a discussion!
Ive used it for around a year and a half and never had any issues. My banking app stopped working after about 8 months but I just log in via a browser and it hasn’t effected my life at all.
For anyone considering the move here is a list of bank apps and their current working status as I know that is a big consideration people worry over.
The UBL app isn’t listed, hope it’ll work 🙏
You can always give it a run and add a report. Also, if it doesn’t work, give the app devs feedback that it is preventing you from using it. It might not be much but we can at least try to make our voices heard.
Well, I’m saying this because I’m interested in running GrapheneOS on my next phone. (It doesn’t support my current one)
My banking app recently stopped working on graphene too. Mildly annoying.
I personally don’t even find it that annoying as it takes around 30 seconds more to log in via a browser for me and I barely ever use it anyway. I’m more annoyed that my bank has the audacity to think they can dictate what I use on my phone citing “login blocked due to custom ROM” or something similar when I last tried to use the app.
Fuck banks.
It’s great, but it drains my battery like hell, (with three profiles: default, google-ser-ices and owner… don’t know if that’s still recommended)
I was a long time lineageOS user and love the freedom of changing anything. I switched to grapheneOS and like it, but miss some features, that are just pointless and not relatable: no full AMOLED dark mode - the devs said the battery savings between dark and pure dark isn’t relevant. and the other thing is: why is the white bar on the bottom not removable?
Because of these things I switched back to lineageOS and realised how dumb it is because of two optical features. GOS is definitely worth to look over two missing features and I switched back to GOS.
Yeah GrapheneOS rarely does eye-candy features. They have a very small team so they exclusively work on security features.
Tbh i used OLED dark mode on my LG v50, and I got serious screen burn in as a consequence. OLED isn’t worth using for a smartphone IMO.
I’ve been on GrapheneOS for 4 years or so. I’ve tried CalyxOS every now and then, but always end up coming back to GrapheneOS. I find it simple, private, secure and free of BS. CalyxOS does come with some stuff preinstalled, which doesn’t really appeal to me, and I trust the sandboxes Google Play model much more that MicroG.
About the devs, I really haven’t had any issues that I have not been able to resolve myself, so my interaction with the is non-existing. I have read some posts with interactions with them, and they do seem to be hostile towards anything that is not 100% aligned with their train of thought, which I find stupid, to say the least. But regardless of how rude they may be, I feel GOS literally has no competition in the Android landscape in terms of privacy and security.
I’ve been using it for a few months. Very happy with it. Minimalistic initial setup, gives you the feeling of control as well as privacy, bank apps work splendidly… an effortless transition, I say as somebody who previously used iPhone but wasn’t tied into the ecosystem.
Cool! How would you compare it to iOS experience?
Is the camera still good on Graphene? It is pretty much the only thing that holds my Oneplus 6T back.
The camera is fine but I prefer to use googles camera app. Both work.
I use the Google camera app as well, it’s just better
You can even install Google Camera app without google play services and deny it Internet access. All works fine.
My recommendation is GOS if you care about out of box experience and using gapps, DivestOS if you care about degoogling and removal of proprietary code. Both are hardened.
Been using it for about five years now. I absolutely love it. But I will say some of these comments make it sound like it’s a little easier than it is. I’d say about 80% of your knowledge from Android will transfer over and just work. But the last 20% is a bit of a learning curve, and will take at least a few weeks to get the hang of.
What I recommended to some of my friends that switched is to get the phone and mess around with it for a few weeks before you switch your sim. Then you’ll get the hang of things like alternative app stores and sandboxed play services, and you’ll figure out what you can and can’t do.
I will say the vast majority of things do work easily because of protection compatibility mode and sandboxed play services. But there will be some things that are just more hassle then they’re worth. I find keeping a second device, like a tablet, without a custom ROM makes that stuff easier.
And there are some things that seem impossible to get working properly, at least for me. For example, casting to a TV is basically impossible from what I can tell. Also, tap to pay, even for things like tickets doesn’t work (although if you have play services, you can use Google wallet for things with barcodes).
Overall, it’s totally worth trying out. Just don’t set your expectations too high. You’re not getting a completely “just works” experience.
As for other custom ROMs, I’ve tried CalyxOS and LineageOS for MicroG. I didn’t find either of them quite as good, but that was many years ago. Maybe they’ve gotten better.
Yea I did the same thing as you about 2 years ago. Gonna maintain and use this phone for as long as I possibly can before either betting another one or find a equally good or better solution that doesn’t give money to google(and hopefully one with a replaceable battery)
I would absolutely buy a Pixel, if only they supported sd-cards. I get that Google is pushing cloud-storage. If I smash my phone on the sidewalk, I still want to have a local storage, I can take out and thus make live backups to. There are just some features Pixels lack and privacy shouldn’t lock you out of them.
You could roll your own cloud storage.
Not exactly good but the way I do it is to use a USB HDD to have backups and E2EE cloud solutions
I’ve been using it for many months and I like it a lot. Only one of my banking apps doesn’t work.
Currently my main issue is that webauthn stopped working after an update. And the community support hasn’t been helpful.
I wish they had better documentation in general.
I post someone’s comment on a controversial topic about google and GOS. I saved it because that’s exactly how I feel.
Step 1 of installing GrapheneOS for de-googling your life: Buy a Google Pixel phone
Look - I know, I know. I get it. Google allows you to unlock the bootloader while maintaining the phone’s unique and excellent hardware security features. The argument makes sense. It is compelling. Other manufacturers do not give you this freedom. I am not arguing about that. I have a Pixel phone running GrapheneOS myself.
However… It is just so very obviously ironic that one needs to trust Google’s hardware and purchase a Google product to de-google their life through GrapheneOS. I think that it is a perfectly valid position for someone to raise their eyebrows, laugh, and remain skeptical of the concept either because they do not want to support Google at all, or because they simply will not trust Google’s hardware.
The reason why I think that this is “controversial” is because I have seen multiple instances of someone pointing out the irony, followed by someone getting defensive about it and making use of the technical security arguments in an attempt to patch up the irony.
If your objective is to punish Google, or to have nothing to do with Google. I completely agree with you using a pixel phone just doesn’t make any sense. You shouldn’t do it
If your objective is to have the most security possible… Then you should install graphene on a Pixel phone.
Yeah it’s ironic but what is the alternative? At least we CAN remove Google’s known spyware from the device, and there’s no evidence of firmware level spying. If you get Samsung, or some chinese crap, you can’t remove Google period, and you might get spied by the manufacturer as a cherry on top. There is no way to have a perfect solution, well unless Samsung starts to provide Custom ROM support or something.
I’m using a Fairphone with /e/os. No Google at all.
Not hardened though. I was heavily considering fairphone but over the back and forth between them discussing with Graphene developers, their hardware is not secure enough yet for graphene to be made for the fairphones. If and when fairphones are on graphene then I will definitely buy them.
Also, even though I commend their phone, the accessories for earbuds and headphones certainly bring up some questions as to their intentions.
It’s because Graphene is not a custom ROM. /e/os is. Graphene is just an OS on top of the ROM, and Fairphone doesn’t update their ROM often enough.
This is a complete non-issue though if you use a custom ROM like LineageOS or /e/os.
No. The issue is with hardware secure elements in how cryptographically intensive workloads are done
https://www.androidauthority.com/titan-m2-google-3261547/
Unfortunately the fairphone falls quite behind in this and relies on software salt and hash that can be exploited.
Buying a used pixel and installing Graphene OS is absolutely a more secure platform than any AOSP based open source bootloader unlocked ROM.
This was not given as reason by the devs why graphene is not on Fairphone. The delayed security updates were.
It’s a holistic statement that doesn’t factor into this.
I think buying a Pixel phone second hand solves this issue and reduces a little e-waste at the same time.
This. I never buy a Pixel new.
This is exactly why I don’t have graphene os, the irony of having to support google is too much for me call me paranoid but i also dont trust them with the hardware piece either lol. I’ve been running lineage os without gapps and its honestly great, updates and patches are every few weeks, super stable and awesome.
I assume you’re using it with bootloader unlocked. The issue is somehow some malware injects your phone and roots it, it can just install itself as a system service and just live there and you’ll never know. The security feature that protects against it is disabled once bootloader is unlocked.
Also I’ve heard that LineageOS has not all security updates present since some firmware updates needs to be provided by the specific manufacturer. For Pixel, Google provides it and GOS uses it.
Yes, a lot of people in this thread should look up the difference between a hardware based secure element and a salted hash.
With the lack of any other viable option, I struggle to see the point of the arguement.
I would but my Pixel 6’s USB connection is entirely useless. It hasn’t successfully connected to a cable in over a year.
I was considering it for my next one, though, whenever that is. Don’t really feel the need for an upgrade atm.
Last 4 or so phones have all been GrapheneOS (I’m not buying new phones all the time to be clear; I use phones till they break; I’m just a long-time user) and yeah I’ve really had no problems to speak of. I currently have a separate profile with Play services for certain apps, and also just to isolate non-privacy-respecting apps that I have to have installed for whatever reason.
Almost all the apps I use are FOSS apps who are aware that a significant amount of their userbase will be using various AOSP forks so I’ve not run into any app compatibility issues. Even back when I used banking apps, I’d used 4 different banks’ apps on GrapheneOS and all of them worked completely fine. Now I don’t have a banking app because I won’t install proprietary software unless I actually have to for some reason, and I can bank on the web just fine.
I’ve been wanting to try it for a while now, but I’m too cheap to buy a phone that can run it.
