you mean they got the D&D license for free?
He should’ve stayed on VACATION, imho
this “dev” are really dumb.
Cry some more, corpos.
Wizards of the coast paid $0 to fund this game, that’s why it says Larian in the publisher field on Steam and not WoTC or Hasbro.
Although they probably got some good sweet Nvidia dollars.
Complaining about it having funding… AAA… lol. Thats the fucking point of AAA. Big fucking budget.
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I read this in stereotyped Italian fuckin Mario voice.
AAA stands for “Abig Afuckin’ Abuget”
Why are they getting so much attention for it?
Nintendo does the same with BoTW and ToTK. Long dev cycles that releases a functional game without micro-transactions.
FromSoft does the same with most of their games. Where people actually beg them to release DLCs.
But no… it’s Larion they seem to go after.
Nintendo is huge. FromSoft has their own cult. But Larion? What’s can they blame there? Nothing. Most big studios that bitch about this is larger than Larion. Maybe because they are more scared that if Larion can do it. There’s no excuse anymore.
I agree with you, thing is: Nintendo produces Nintendo exclusives, so it doesn’t affect the gaming space as much as other games might
There was plenty of distaste for Elden Ring when it came out – devs at Ubisoft I believe ridiculed how the UI wasn’t informative and such.
I think AAA studios are terrified because they’re seeing just how much consumers value quality over quantity and MTX bullshit. Games that should be in self contained bubbles are now hitting mainstream and becoming absurdly popular.
Lmao Ubisoft of all folks should shut the fuck up about UI, they are literally the source of the meme about cluttered and overly complicated UI. If Ubisoft is complaining about a UI I have to automatically assume it is a good UI.
Also, if AAA developers have been paying attention for the last decade, they would know that consumers have valued quality and shown disdain for MTX since MTX started becoming pervasive. MTX overall can generate a lot of revenue, but it isnt sustainable, hence why there is always some sort of FOMO characteristic included with the MTX system, making things limited time and constantly shovelling low effort “new content” to fill out the MTX system.
They’ve been working for almost a generation now on changing the mindset of gamers as to what they should expect from a game, and here comes a really good game from a little known studio doing exactly what games used to expect before the mind changing was attempted.
The lesson here is you can trust most big Japanese publishers/developers and it’s the opposite for American/European ones. Christ, Death Stranding was almost ruined by all the “subtle” product placements they put
Kojima got away with his product placement in mgs3 because nobody in the west knew calorie mate was a real product lol.
I personally think this is because gaming journalism isn’t real journalism. They don’t actually care, they just want clicks and perceived relevancy when people repost their tweets to reddit
“They don’t actually care, they just want clicks and perceived relevancy when people repost their tweets to reddit”
Kinda sounds like real media to me then lol they all suck if they’re major corporate media.
A lot of journalists do care, but they also have a job to do and a boss that tells them which articles to write.
Like I don’t care about whatever business my company is competing in, but I’ll keep working for them because they pay me.
but I’ll keep working for them because they pay me.
That’s just it, you can move to a different company that has a better working situation in environment. You just have to be a brave enough to fight the inertia that keeps you where you’re at.
And in fact, if you want your salary to steadily increase over your career, you’re supposed to move from company to company every couple of years.
Yeah I’m thankful to have got that advice pretty early in my career. Generally get itchy feet around 3 years now.
Most of the Sony exclusives are the same. God of War, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima.
Just solid AAA single player games, no nickel and dime bullshit.
Every F2P model is predatory as fuck, and relies on taking advantage of whales over a prolonged period.
Dota 2 did it really well, it was and still is an amazing game, and you couldn’t pay to get any gameplay advantage.
I sank a lot of money into it just to support such system.
…but I paid full price for D4 and still got a half baked game with an invasive in-game shop.
I’m as frustrated with D4 as the next guy, but I’d hardly call their in-game shop invasive. Their MTX has been minor and cosmetic thus far. There are far better examples including one within the Diablo universe.
The shop had an un-clearable red alert notification any time they released a new skin for your character chat.
The only way to clear it was to open the shop and scroll to find the new item and click on it, opening the store page. Then when you backed out it would go away.
You had to do this for every single item that was released.
Maybe I’m neurotic or autistic or OCD or all three but those stupid red alerts trigger me and I need to clear them all to keep playing the game.
I don’t even want the fucking store in my game. Give me an option to turn it off for fuck’s sake.
While not exactly their in-game shop…
Not to victim blame, but if you looked at everything Blizzard have done over the last 10 years, and thought “maybe this one will be different” then perhaps the problem is you.
Not to X, but…
[Proceeds to X]
[Proceeds to X]
Sometimes, if the subject is important enough, you just have to X.
Sure but don’t lead by saying you are not going to do x.
I don’t think this comment really deserved this discourse, it seems pretty clearly tongue in cheek to me.
Not everything needs to be so dire.
Don’t forget the battle passes.
Ironically I’m less concerned with battle passes as long as they don’t sell power. The actual mtx itself doesn’t bother me, I’ve easily spent hundreds in path of exile. But I prefer to enjoy the game first, and then at some point decide that I want to support the devs, and then maybe I buy something.
Yeah it blows my mind how much I’ve spent on league supporter kits as well. Not sure if it is because I enjoy the game or I respect the business model.
I’m not against battle passes, but there are plenty of examples of how they fall under the predatory monetization category. Not selling power is hardly a justification that they aren’t unethical.
I realized I had overdone it when two weeks in they were going to send me a free hoodie shipped from a different continent.
At least I ran out of things to buy there.
I think the “problem” for those people is that the game broke out of its bubble. nintendo, from soft and also larion up until now all had their own bubble of fans. Larion broke that mold and even people who have nothing to do with the genre celebrate it.
Critical mass has been achieved.
I think it’s due to the little guy making a huge wave that other people don’t feel they’re “allowed” to make. These other devs work on “AAA” companies working on big name titles from studios everyone has heard of so. But now a small, indie studio comes along with a grand slam and they don’t like it kind of makes them look bad by comparison. Showing you can release a big complex game without it being an absolute buggy mess, doesn’t need microtransactions, doesn’t need to sell millions of copies to be considered a success, and isn’t just a copy paste of the previous game with a handful of modifications made to slap a new “FOR SALE” label on it…
“AAA” in price tag only.
(Content may vary. Please purchase premium battle pass to see more details.)
But now a small, indie studio comes along with a grand slam and they don’t like it kind of makes them look bad by comparison.
Larian is similar in size, if not significantly larger, than Bethesda when they made Skyrim.
Less established though. I’d say that Larian wasn’t on most gamers’ radar until Divinity Orginal Sin 2.
Even then I feel like they were too underrated for their obvious potential. I’m glad the studio is fully in the spotlight now. With so many shitty companies out there it feels like they earned and deserve it. Now we just have to hope they don’t fall to temptation and turn to crap like so many others
You’re not referring to Larion as a small indie studio right? They are not a small indie studio.
Hear that Gamefreak, owner of the highest-grossing media franchise of all times?
They learned their lesson though. They don’t need to put on any effort and people will still buy it.
I know and I fucking hate it. I was one of the fanboys defending them even through the first SwSh trailers, but the more they showed stuff the more it was clear it wasn’t the franchise I used to love anymore.
The next great Pokemon game won’t be by Gamefreak, and it won’t be called Pokemon. But your kids will love it.
Man I hope the next great Pokémon (even if it’s not pokémon) doesn’t take until I have kids to come out. I heard good stuff about Coromon but I’m not sure if it’s genuinely great or “great for an indie”.
Meanwhile:
Jan 2022: “Heres xenoblade 3, an absolutely gigantic single player game, no microtransactions, pushes the console to it’s absolute limit, Monolithsoft at the top of their fucking game. Announced today, out in september.”
April 2022: “Lol, it’s now out in july. Enjoy.”.
Baldurs gate is fucking sweet, but let’s not act like it’s a unique occurance in AAA gaming.
Xenoblade 3 is a Nintendo exclusive. Baldur’s Gate is unique to me because a game like this hasn’t clicked with me since Dragon Age Origins.
This isn’t a pissing contest and no one is acting like this is unique. We saw the same excitement for the last 2 Zelda games, God of War, Spiderman, Elden Ring etc. (post more examples, I don’t pay as much attention to the industry anymore so I’m sure I’ve missed a bunch). Let’s celebrate them if that’s what you’d like to see more of. They’re all awesome and they all add to the evidence that there is a large population that still want to experience games this way.
no one is acting like this is unique.
Yes actually, they are. That’s the entire reason this debate began; some developers claimed that Baldur’s Gate 3 is a unique occurrence and should be treated as such, rather than an example of a AAA video game meeting the expectations of consumers.
I think that was the point the person you replied to was getting at: not only is it completely fine for consumers to have these expectations, but it’s actually not even as rare as these developers are making out. There are other examples of AAA development studios and publishers who aren’t engaging in blatantly anti-consumer practices, so the ones that do really have no excuse.
That’s a bingo
My example was just the first that came to mind. But like baldurs gate, you can tell the amount of care and passion that has been put into it. And it’s a AAA title no matter whether people think otherwise due to it being a Switch exclusive (admittedly, I only play switch games nowadays on my PC emulated in 4k60fps but still…)
Yeah it’s a great game. Monolith and the Zelda devs constantly knock it out of the park with these huge titles.
Ugh, totk can’t break 30fps on my computer. What’s your rig?
botw and todk are fps limited to 30fps by default due to their physics engine being tied to the framerate. There are workaround/hacks though to get them running smoothly in an emulator. (At least there is for the wii u version of botw in cemu, I’m not quite up to date with switch emulation but I’d be surprised if there wasn’t)
I know of the hacks, my pc is just incapable of running it. After install i think i got 60fps, sometimes, if i looked at the ground. :)
i9 9900k @ 5ghz, WD black 1tb nvme, RTX 3080 12gb, 32gb ddr4 ram, win10
I get 60fps in totk
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- psych
That waifu/husbando enslavement game was AAA??
No, that was 2. That mechanic and plot point doesn’t exist in 3. 3 has very little, if any, fanservice, most due to its dark subject matter (infinite war, limited lifespans)
And yes, AAA. It cost multiple millions, hundreds of staff working on it, hundreds of hours of VA including notable UK talent (Jenna Coleman, etc), a fully orchestral soundtrack by Yasunori Mitsuda recorded in multiple countries, and the game itself pushes the switch to breaking point. It absolutely counts and is considered by Nintendo as one.
There’s loads of other examples of decent single player experiences without bullshit, this one just came to mind first. And I hope Baldurs Gate’s success brings more like these
Who the f is Shawn, wtf is evolve? Why is every shitty game dev crying that other people make good games, without shame? Oh that’s right, based on their releases, they have no shame.
He didn’t have anyone’s attention and he craves attention and now he has lots of attention, so I guess everything is coming up Milhouse as far as Shawn is concerned.
Maybe we need to update the nomenclature. Software with loot boxes, pay to win mechanics, predatory gameplay loops, and storefront-first design should now be called “casinos”. They should have disclaimers about gambling and addiction in their load screen, have age restrictions, and should be forced to institute limits on what can be spent in a certain time frame. Feature-complete software with zero storefronts of any kind would be allowed to brand themselves as “games”.
Better idea: just make that shit illegal.
That’ll happen when pigs fly.
Hell, when customers actually learn to have some self respect for themselves.
I guess pigs fly in Belgium and Netherlands
Fair but let me make a vain attempt to save face: Did that actually make an impact in the industry, given they’re small countries with not much customers.
It’s not always about making a big impact. Sometimes you just need to set an example.
Not really for now, most games usually just skip releasing in banned countries. But let’s hope EU will adopt this in near future
Oohh. I like this. I’ve been bothered by the rise of gambling in different packaging in the world over the last decade. We really should be acknowledging that gambling is different from gaming, separating them meaningfully. Are toy department shelves still full of child gambling reandom toy bullshit too? I haven’t had reason or opportunity to pay attention to that for a few years.
I’m not sure about toys, but watching my son grow up with app stores has made me very aware of how so called “games” have been monetizing our children makes me want some real legislation and restrictions on what is legal to market to children. The “idle” category of games is just egregious. They’re a flimsy and thin veneer of game painted over a bank machine. AAA is not much better - they just have more complicated routes take your money.
Honestly, this kind of pleading from the other AAA developers is just making them look pathetic. Yes, it’s reasonable not to expect BG3 for every AAA games, but it’s not because of time and money, but simply because developers are just not always going to make lightning strike twice. But these devs have plenty of time and money and they look terrible in comparison to a dev that took it’s time to make sure it was well polished before release.
Exactly. Every new game doesn’t have to be an instant classic that breaks new ground. But they should be functional, playable, and have enough polish to be considered finished. That doesn’t necessarily mean bug free, but we all know what a finished game looks like, and what one doesn’t.
The worst one I’ve ever personally played was the Lego Hobbit game. My wife and I used to line up kamikaze shots and play Lego games, figuring a child and a drunk adult were about the same level. The game stops when Smaug flies out of the mountain. Roll credits. I guess the last movie did so poorly that they never bothered making the rest of the game.
For ages, AAA games were classed as such by brand recognition, not by quality. Inevitably, they devolved into being just a platform to sell microtransactions. The shareholders want their dividents and the CEO needs a new yacht with coke and hookers.
It’s too easy to exploit the dopamine rush playing the new, official installment of a well-known series. Even if it’s terrible, the customers get their joy by ranting about how trash the game is and how they hope the next one will be better. BG3 being an actual game does not change anything and will not reset expectations.
That’s sad because TT’s games were quite good, I think they hit their apex at Lego Marvel Superheroes 1. Awesome open world, a ton of characters, and lots of exploration in addition to the normal level quests.
How does it go?
I want smaller games, with lower quality graphics. Made by happier developers who are paid more to work less. And I’m not kidding!
I mean we can have large games with detailed graphics and have employees treated well. We just need to accept 10+ year timelines for releases on big games which I’m ok with as long as we get quality results and the team is treated well.
I follow star citizen though so I could be the weird one here lol
And then you need someone to foot the bill for all that. Preferrably ahead of time.
That’s kinda how lucky Star Citizen got, but that’s not a business model you can replicate a second time.
That’s a valid point. As long as there’s a publisher and investors we’re more than likely never going to see what I suggested, I kinda forgot star citizen is what it is because it’s funded by us.
It’s always the same crunch time for employees and rushed buggy products to feed the investors from “AAA” corps. Hope we can push for some positive change :/
The main differences with Star Citizen are that it’s
- Funded in advance
- Funded by people who have no say in how the product/company should work
- Massively overfunded
This means, CIG has no pressure to ship soon or even at all (if the project fails, they have no liability). They also have nobody telling them what to with the money. They have already made their profit.
I am not knocking CIG for this situation, but if you put it like this, it’s easy to see why for each CIG out there, there are tens of thousands of games on crowdfunding sites that either
- Failed to raise funds
- Failed to get a decent company/legal structure running with the money they raised
- Failed to actually ever deliver anything in an usable state
- Are just pure scams
So as a general business model rather than just an insane stroke of luck, I don’t think this is a good option.
A business model that only earns money after release (like the classic publisher-funded development model) is bad for the obvious cash-grabby and buggy reasons, but at least it consistently delivers games. Contrary to the “earn money before you start development” model that is enabled by crowdfunding, which in general does not deliver games.
In my (not very educated) opinion, early access is probably the best middle ground. You start off with little initial funding required, but by the time you turn to the crowd, you already have a working prototype and company structure. That makes it much more likely for the game to eventually be released in a full version. This option obviously comes with its own downsides as well, but many of my favourite games have been small studios or even individuals who use early acces to fund development.
I can’t understand why crunch time has become so normalised. There’s no other software development project where constantly failing to plan for the needed time requirement would be accepted. Crunch is a sign of bad project management, it isn’t normal.
Dreaming of riding an army of unicorns to battle.
Does this include Hollow Knight? Because I want more of that. I can’t wait for Silksong!
Those developers trying to shit on Larian need to cry and seethe more. Terribly incompetent people who can’t create good games themselves, why not trying taking notes instead?
Keep up the great work Larian.
Those developers trying to shit on Larian need to cry and seethe more.
I can’t find developers doing this. Seems like a mostly made up concern by overly sensitive people looking to be angry about something.
The picture in the OP is PR for a publishing company. There are many other accounts of people who work in the industry who are angry/jealous of Larian. You’re probably just not looking in the right places.
I can’t find developers doing this.
This entire story was started by game developers on social media (Twitter) complaining about consumer expectations in the wake of Baldur’s Gate 3.
The devs are mostly not the problem with the state of AAA games today, it’s the people telling them what to do in order to maximise profits.
Same as with most problems we face as a species, really.
But I was told every individual ruthlessly and insatiably acting solely out of greed for personal gain — regardless of ethics, morality, or empathy — was the greatest, most efficient, bestest, freedomest thing to have ever existed?
Why would corporate sociopaths lie? What could they po$$ibly have to gain?
Capitalism is the worst form of economics.
Except for all of the other ones that have been tried.
This is the bad take management wants you to have.
Who in management exactly? As far as I know Larian is not responsible for the tweets aside from just making a good game.
I’m not talking about Larian, I’m talking about the studios who want to keep cranking out suppisedly AAA games that are little more than creatively bankrupt, dressed up vending machines.
Yeah, in that case I totally agree. It’s just ineptitude shouting at excellence.
Try actually reading what the developers are saying. Most are saying that they can’t make good games because the suits won’t let them. They keep fucking over and chasing off the most experienced and visionary people, force teams to chase trends instead of concentrating on one type of game and never give them enough time.
From all that I’ve seen it’s more like they are trying to dismiss the success that Larian has found by saying that they are a special case which is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Larian did hard work and are being rewarded for it.
People have been saying this game is exciting because of the lack of mtx, but it seems to me that any big rpg gets a lot of attention. Eldan Ring got similar praise last year. Bioware was making these kinds of games fairly consistently about a decade ago and then stopped to make shit like Anthem. It’s a design decision not a budget problem.
