Why is it that compared to other mental illness’s like depression, ADHD, autism and anxiety people seem to be so hostile to NPD? I always see things about ‘mental health awareness’ yet this is never applied to personality disorders.
Just look up “narcissism”, “NPD” or “narcissistic personality disorder” and the results are about how dangerous people with NPD are and how to spot somebody with NPD or if your ex boyfriend is a narcissist etc… etc…
I was watching this video earlier by a YouTube user ‘ShortFatOtaku’ called “Low IQ Twitter Discourse Awards!” and there was this one guy on twitter who said that if you claim advocate for the mentally ill you such do so with personality disorders as well. A statement I completely agree with:
https://youtu.be/3EJedJ8MhNA YouTube
ShortFatOtaku response with “wow your going to let that narcissist kill you and take everything from you?” I shouldn’t have to explain how bad faith and unhinged that is.
Why do people think this way about narcissists? Having NPD doesn’t make someone an inherently bad person. As someone who has NPD I haven’t abused or manipulated anyone ever. Sure, I struggle with empathy, I have to make an effort to think about other people and ok I have a never ending need for validation but that doesn’t mean I’m a bad person I understand I have a problem I didn’t choose to be like this. Manipulation and grandiosity are awful traits that I have but they don’t define me. I’m a good friend, I’m a good sister, I’m a good coworker and there are people out there who benefit from my existence. NPD doesn’t have to define me I’m more then my diagnosis.
People don’t understand that medicine is about helping the patient. They read the diagnostic criteria for NPD, and they don’t understand that those things are only medically significant if they harm the patient. They think the criteria is a list of bad behaviour that hurts others.
Teach people what medicine is, and the stigma disappears.
The D part of NPD is what is defined as harming the subject.
The N is the part the rest of us are worried about.
Most articles about spotting narcissists are not about spotting people with NPD. They’re about spotting narcissists. That’s a superset of NPD sufferers.
A major component of NPD is it’s harm to the sufferer’s interpersonal relationships. I think the behaviors that contribute to this, though diagnostically and medically relevant, are generally deservedly stigmatized.
This is, of course, different from the armchair diagnosing someone with NPD just because they exhibit some of these behaviors, which I do think contributes significantly to the stigma of mental illness.
Ultimately, someone with NPD is more than their diagnosis and can certainly be capable of interpersonal relationships that are worthwhile to all parties involved.
I think the behaviors that contribute to this, though diagnostically and medically relevant, are generally deservedly stigmatized.
Sure, but only one of the nine diagnostic criteria is a behaviour. Most of them are feelings. Oftentimes bad feelings cause bad behaviour, but a bad feeling isn’t enough evidence to call someone an abuser. If we start telling people they can’t feel certain ways, we’re basically inventing the concept of thoughtcrimes.
And yeah, people with NPD are very often attacked by neurotypicals for their thoughtcrimes.
And yeah, people with NPD are very often attacked by neurotypicals for their thoughtcrimes.
Source? I’ve dealt with more than my share of narcissists, and I’ve never seen this. They might say things like “You really do think you’re the center of the universe, unbelievable” but it’s not because of the thought itself, it’s because of a history of harmful behavior linked to that thought. Manipulation, verbal abuse, selfishness at the expense of others, etc.
If you somehow had all the non-behavioral traits, but were able to avoid all the telltale narcissistic behaviors, no one would attack you for your narcissistic thoughtcrimes.
That’s not what drag has heard from people with NPD.
The ableist’s first attack on people with NPD will be to say that the disorder causes abusive behaviour. And they will watch you like a hawk waiting for you to speak out of turn and prove them right. But if you stay on your best behaviour and prove the first stereotype wrong by your own existence, you will see the arguments change. You will still see hate. And the argument for the hate will morph into a new assertion: “Having a big ego is itself an act of abuse.”
https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/why-reactionaries-hate-pride-and-narcissists-938d39261f13
NPD is also typified by not recognizing your behavioral offenses, and reacting to criticism by claiming to be the victim. The narcissists in my life never think they do anything wrong, that their abusive behavior is normal or acceptable, that their critics are attacking them for no reason, out of unfounded hatred or jealousy.
That does not make for a reliable evaluation. Claims of baseless attacks from a person who thinks every attack against them is baseless, does not prove that those attacks are actually baseless.
Well drag doesn’t think neurotypicals with no psychological background can make reasoned judgements on the struggles faced by neurodivergent people either. That’s like asking a white person to explain how it feels to be african american.
Just a few things:
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Bit presumptuous to assume I’m neurotypical.
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I’m pulling my information from psychologists, like the ones who described the signs and symptoms of NPD in the DSM.
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I have extensive experience with more than one narcissist. Failing to recognize their own abusive behavior, and the link to subsequent social fallout, is textbook narcissism.
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I’m not trying to make judgement on their struggles, I’m stating that believing oneself to be unfairly targeted is a symptom of narcissism.
It’s more like someone who is nose blind to their own horrific body odor (thanks to my MtG phase, also something I’m quite familiar with) than race. They think they smell fine, yet people react poorly to them, some even suggest bathing or deodorant. Since they can’t smell themself, they interpret these comments as baseless. They think they smell fine, and other nose blind smelly people will only confirm their self-assuredness.
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It’s probably because you call them ‘anxiety people’
As someone who has NPD I haven’t abused or manipulated anyone ever.
That you are aware of.
Or are willing to acknowledge.
What do you mean by “aware of”? That’s quite the accusation your pushing. You must have some great evidence of my treatment of other people to make such a statement
Nah I won’t be providing any evidence. You’ve just provided it.
You are a failable human, unless you never interacted with anybody else ever you can’t be sure that you never made anybody feel manipulated or abused.
As someone else pointed out, this post is manipulative. You’ve set yourself up as a victim and when people posit that you could potentially have some self improvement, you are doubling down about it.
Or “…yet”.
The possibility is there, yes. But I think the best way to prevent it is to talk about NPD in a more medical way and focus on effective treatments. Honestly, I haven’t found anything like “DBT for BPD” or “lithium for BD” for this disorder. It’s very much needed.
You should definitely say the same thing to the next black man you see saying he hasn’t committed any crimes. Watching you find out what happens would be fun.
Some people like and/or need having something to blame. npd just happens to be an easy target.
As someone with an NPD “friend” - I have to look beyond the insults and threats and see the insecurities and vulnerabilities behind them. Most people just can’t or don’t want to do that and will be insulted if not scared away by the things my friend says to them. There’s also a stigma associated with being friends with someone who is abusive - I keep the friendship secret from all but my closest friends, who have a hard time understanding it themselves.
There’s a reason your friends wouldn’t be okay with you putting up with that stuff.
There is also a reason this person is willing to put up with it. A neurotypical doesn’t trying to understand and forgive the behavior, they just find other neurotypical people to hang out with.
Orbiters of a narcissists, fuel the disease and gain their own validation by being someone else’s fuel. That doesn’t make it healthy.
What kind of validation does the fuel person get?
It can vary but being needed is a common one. The feeling that they are helping hold the NPD’s life together.
Ooh fuck that could be me
The Narcissist Scare by Sarah Z — This explains a lot, the term has been wildly misused and thus people don’t really understand what it actually means.
Plus there is a focus on punitive ‘justice’ very much in the systems we live under instead of either trying to understand people and trying to help them either directly or indirectly.
Allegedly, it is a difficult neurodivergence to live with in a healthy, non toxic way. However, I’ve never personally seen that from anyone I know officially diagnosed with it, in fact they are well aware that they have it and are trying to do better, a lot of people are armchair psychologists and love to diagnose with no proof, misattributing it to other things, either trauma or the systems we all live under which causes people to act in terrible ways.
For those who have genuinely been affected by the actions of those who genuinely have it though, I suspect they feel as if they have to see as everybody with it as exactly the same to try to defend themselves. However, in actuallity this likely just makes people worse because not having community or people to point out when you are doing harmful things or getting you help is likely going to make people act out or seek out others who will reinforce their beliefs instead of encouraging them to get help in ways that actually work instead of the vitriolic hating ways most do to them. Though yes, I get that people shouldn’t have to be around those that do them harm but by seeing anyone of any group as all the same it may be doing more harm than good instead of getting to know individuals.
Personally, I think a lot of the systems we live under don’t help with the behaviour of anyone with neurodiverse conditions nor those that need protection from actual toxicity because they are stagnating and do not allow those that need help to get it due to being alienating and often lacking the resources they need to get help.
I just wanted to say that I think it is probably difficult to have a disorder that is stigmatised so much. It makes it harder to acknowledge it and work on it. You do that anyway, which shows strength. I agree that disorders do not make someone a bad person. How you act and what is the effect on others is what is important for that. We all make mistakes. What is important is to acknowledge them and learn from them and to prioritise the needs of people we might have hurt so that they can heal. I think that defines whether someone is a good person, whether they have NPD or not.
Just look up “narcissism”, “NPD” or “narcissistic personality disorder” and the results are about how dangerous people with NPD are and how to spot somebody with NPD or if your ex boyfriend is a narcissist etc… etc…
Thats because these people ARE dangerous. My dad was a narcissist (my own assumption) and his new wife is a narcissist (both of her parents actually got proper diagnosis and testing, both were positive)
My new step mom actually tried to ruin my life. She tried to throw all of my belongings away, kicked out my cat and kicked my sister and I out. (right as I turned 16 and my sister turned 20). DCF got involved and they did jack shit cause my dad bought a separate house to put us in.
My mom is also a narcissist and she is the most exhausting person to deal with. She has hit and hurt me in the past and blamed me. Constant gaslighting, constant blaming, constant lying. Narcissists are the most damaging and dangerous people you can come across. Some are obviously less insane, and are tolerable, but if I knew someone have serious NPD I’d completely avoid them and hardly talk to them.
Also I’d like to clear up, if you think you are a little smarter, or better than everyone else, I wouldn’t call you a narcissist. However if you think you are more important than everyone, and think its OK to lie to or hurt people, even a little for personal gain, you are a narcissist.
You have not provided any evidence in this post that any of the people mentioned have NPD just that there people you dislike so therefore they must have NPD. Just because someone was rude to you or wronged you in some way doesn’t mean they have NPD. I have been wronged by a lot of people but I don’t go around saying they have a mental health issue.
How do you cope with NPD?
Also, what kind of things can other people do to support someone with NPD?
“How do you cope with NPD?”
Self reflection helps and listening to other people with NPD gives me a lot of insight into myself.
“Also, what kind of things can other people do to support someone with NPD?”
Just be understanding and don’t come the conclusions like everyone else in this thread
The thread is a bit of a dumpster fire…
I’ve been mulling over your actual question a bit. I could argue that some of the stigmatisation could just be that it’s really easy to dislike someone who’s self centred or selfish, that NPD can present similarly (gross assumptions on my part there, sorry) makes it easy to dislike someone with NPD.
Disliking someone makes it very easy to stigmatise any and all of their traits. It becomes a feedback loop.
Anyway, I hope you manage it well and hope you can surround yourself with supportive people.
Same with adults who have a sexual attraction to children. They didn’t choose to be like that, and if they make sure to not act on those impulses, they shouldn’t be demonized. Conversion therapy has been demonstrated not to work, but if there’s any way they can receive help with their impulses rather than condemnation and vitriol, that seems it would be more helpful.
So your saying I’m a pedophile?
I wasn’t implying any specific individual.
I believe ignorance is a common reason even among professionals. They only think of the grandiose traits; they confuse the vulnerable traits with BPD or MDD; and they think it has to be close to ASPD to be diagnosable.
My loved one developed NPD by having a terrible childhood and early teenage years with undiagnosed AuDHD. Bullying, rejection, isolation, school failures, etc. The solution was to start lying, manipulating, trying to get something (anything) going their way, seeking validation… They received a depression diagnosis only at first 🫥.
Did you know people with ASD score higher in vulnerable narcissism traits? That means this story could be common. Traumatized neurodivergent children are already at higher risk of developing mental disorders.
But no, nobody talks about NPD this way. It’s always about grandiose traits being dangerous for others (which can be part of the experience, but there’s so much more). I hope it changes someday.
This:
The solution was to start lying, manipulating, trying to get something (anything) going their way, seeking validation
Is a collection of reasons to be wary of this person. Validation’s not so bad, unless the person gets toxic about how they seek it. But being lied to, manipulated, spending time with someone who has to shape situations into their image, that’s a cost to people who experience it.
Because they have a tendency to not take accountability. Nothing is ever their fault, there’s always an excuse, there’s never an unqualified apology. If you are an exception to the rule, good on you.
I know two people in my life with NPD. One person is capable about having conversations about how he impacts the group socially. The other has just been cut out of my life permanently for refusing to address his issues.
“I know two people in my life with NPD.”
How did you know? Did they tell you or something?
It’s stigmatised because the term has entered common (mis)usage to describe people who are just selfish
I don’t think that’s WHY it’s stigmatised. It had to be stigmatized before that to be applied to selfish people.
It’s a disorder that is harmful to others and difficult to understand. For others to cope with it requires navigating a complex network of negative behaviors. Manipulation and lack of empathy are the traits of a psychopath, and none of us want that.
The OP lacks empathy but evidentally desires it from others. If you understand why you need empathy, then you understand why lack of empathy is stigmatised.
It had to be stigmatized before that to be applied to selfish people.
Good point. I suspect it was a plot point in Medical Drama #17 or Police Drama #12, thus was thoroughly misrepresented.
Actually, it entered pop culture with Christopher Lasch’s book The Culture Of Narcissism
It entered pop culture in ancient Greek theater
Kinda like how “schizophrenia” is used to describe anyone who’s a bit weird or how “autistic” is used to describe someone with a interest in something.
I love how you were downvoted for a totally reasonable take.
I dunno dude, it’s super weird. Sarah Z has a video about this, IIRC the explanation there was something like, people have latched on to “narcissist” as a thing one doesn’t need to worry that one is oneself but can be tacked on to anybody one dislikes. Also there are demons involved for some reason.
(Having killed ShortFatOtaku’s Twitter guy, and taken all his stuff, how would “the narcissist” go about extracting the validation??? Sounds made up.)
(Also it’s always “the narcissist” like there’s just one extremely busy person out there.)
NPD might make people struggle with empathy, but nobody, who is out there thinking everyone they meet could be “the narcissist” who is out to get them and not worthy of respect or consideration, is themselves killing it on the empathy front.
