- Peter Kropotkin, The Conquest of Bread (1892)
- Murray Bookchin, The Ecology of Freedom (1982)
- Abdullah Öcalan, Democratic Confederalism (2011)
I’m not right leaning, but I live in a right leaning area, and I think most all of us could stand a bit of time back in nature. So here’s what I would consider.
- A hunting or fishing license and classes
- A long weekend camping in the woods
- A trip to a national park
- Boat license lessons
- A craft class at a local Uni, like welding or pottery. They’re usually pretty cheap and a lot of fun
- A rafting trip
Not knowing him at all nor what he likes, perhaps a guitar and guitar lessons. That’s something I truly enjoyed in my late teens/early 20s. Or tickets to a music show or comedian he likes.
A hunting or fishing license and classes
These are really educational, and I actually made a new friend at one, and I’m a middle-aged man.
I would advise against hunting, fishing, and boating. I’m part of that community and it’s mostly racist older men. You can find progressives like me, but most people he would encounter would just reinforce the kind of ideology you’re trying to steer him away from.
Marx
Other than fascism, what else is he into? Lean in that direction. Make it apparent that you are all a loving family, and he is a part of that as long as he remains willing to put in the work/maintenance that love requires.
Do you know if the doctrine he’s been taken in by is religious or secular in nature?
I ask because I could recommend some books you could get him that just might get the kid to think a little harder about things.
For context, I teach philosophy and religion for some community colleges and have been looking for ways to get these Gen Z alt right boys to quit the propaganda.
While a lot of them seem to be lost causes, there are some who can be challenged to read outside their sphere, so long as what I give them isn’t too overtly “other.”
Depending on what he’s into, there might be some authors who know how to talk to an oppositional reader.
i was going to mention some books too but then i saw the pink floyd answer and realised that would be far more likely to not end up sitting on a shelf :(
I don’t know how to put this delicately, but:
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
2.) Much of my family is like this and it is always due to a similar lack of confidence/self-loathing.
I’m not suggesting anything, just throwing it out there. That’s a hard thing to “gift” around, if it’s even at all potentially relevant. Gym membership or weights? You’d have to have a pretty unique relationship with your son to give him psychedelics or a trip to a nice strip club, and I’m not even sure that solves anything necessarily (just using it as an extreme example). Could be badass. Could be really weird/icky. Probably the latter. Massage is less weird? I don’t know.
Which is why I agree with the sentiment of separating it all from Christmas and just love him and give him something that shows you know him and know what he would like, so that he feels seen and appreciated. “I’m not going anywhere” is the most-powerful message you can try to send. I’d say IF you try to gift something like that, make sure it’s only a side item. Don’t make the entire thing about your differences.
Many cliches of parenting turn out to be realities as you go. You find yourself realizing tropes exist for a reason. They grow up fast. Different phases at different periods. Moody teenagers. They’re not always true, but they often turn out to be understandable. Besides the above, it’s worth considering whether there might be some element of “rebellion” in it, if he grew up liberal. Maybe it’s just “doing the opposite of my lame family,” like a little bit of a “fuck you, dad!!!” phase? No matter what, you lose the more you dramatically respond. I think riding it out by being the rock who loves him no matter what is ultimately the best play, which means some awesome gift that he would love.
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
My GenZ son is in his early twenties and lockdown and covid impacts on his health and school have really thrown him for a loop. He has not been overcome by fascist ideologies, but we seem unable to inspire him with any motivation. He’s the same sweet person he’s always been, but I think he is content to just play video games in his room and do D&D with his friends a couple times a week forever. (I understand that, but we won’t always be here to put a roof over his head, and we are not wealthy people. He’s going to need to support himself when we go.)
He is also very overweight (the entire family is, but he’s really accelerating it) and although he doesn’t seem very very bothered by it, I know he’s aware of it.
I understand the need for exercise and I understand calories. Those things don’t need explaining. But I’d love to know how you got over that hurdle to start doing something about your body. I feel like some successes there could easily translate to greater confidence and motivation in other areas.
We spend lots of time together, we enjoy him just like we always have, he just seems rudderless and we’re trying to help him without controlling him, but with limited success.
Anything you might be able to share about your turnaround could be helpful. Though I’m not offering him psychadelics. 🙂
Unfortunately, that really is the answer for me. Psychedelics made it all finally click in a way that stuck. I had previously seen marginal success in dieting, but could never keep it off. Because I was coming from a religious background, part of it was, “What’s the point?” Sex is wrong. I married young. Life sucks. And so on. Psychedelics made all of the percolating doubts and insecurities click into place in a clear way. “I’m NOT really religious; I don’t believe it. I’m not raising my kids that way. No third-party is going to step-in and change my body for me. Nobody is going to put the weights in my hand and check my progress. I have to take care of me. I either have to take action or shut up and live with the consequences. I’d really prefer to live a life where I’m more desirable and it’s not really anyone else’s fault if I’m not putting in enough effort and ‘losing the mating game.’” And so on–can’t really characterize a trip like that with words obviously.
I might have/probably would have eventually gotten there without psychedelics? I think? Maybe? I don’t know. But they certainly provided the swift kick in the ass I needed to clarify years of baggage. I know it’s not helpful to say “give your child psychedelics,” but it just happens to be what helped me (specifically, one instance of using shrooms was the most-impactful, I mostly only ever microdosed a few times besides that one trip).
I have a long-time close friend who has long struggled with weight in a serious way. He briefly lost it and suddenly he was dating a beautiful Ukrainian girl, seeing the benefits of being healthy, loving life. That was a long time ago, it ended, he gained it all back. The closest I’ve come to getting through to him is to be a bit more crass than I normally would be in saying, “REMEMBER HOW GOOD IT WAS TO BE WITH THAT GIRL!? DON’T YOU MISS THAT AND WANT IT BACK? ISN’T THAT WORTH A FEW MONTHS OF WORK?” But being a bit more pointed in my language. But again, you’re probably not going to say, “Don’t you miss that good pussy!?” to your son, so…I’m kind of useless to you, maybe.
I can see how that makes sense. I’m not anti-psychedelics in general (if presented with a binary choice of being anti or not), but I’m also not of the experience level nor comfort level to be offering them to my son. If they would become something available to him clinically I’d support it if recommended by his doctor of course. (not that he needs our permission at his age)
Nonetheless I appreciate that you took the time to make that detailed write up. Thanks!
- subscription to Brilliant
- museum card (go with him)
- trip abroad
- night out to stand up comedy
- tickets to an anime convention
Edit: maybe get him a busuu, rosetta stone, or duolingo subscription so that he can learn a new language, and maybe the desire to travel to experience life outside of the country, learn about new cultures and people, and so on.
To be honest brilliant seemed so cool to me like 7 years ago and I got a subscription and found that I basically learnt nothing from it even though I spent hundreds of hours.
It’s good at making you “feel” like you’re learning but it’s pretty bad at actually teaching things.
A textbook will go so much further.
If he’s consuming right wing social media, it might be because he’s bored. Others have suggested left wing media, but maybe just finding other activities to do would help. These cost money, but maybe camping/hiking, hobby electronics/combat robots, dirt bikes/go-karts, RC planes/drones or metal fabrication are ideas that come to my mind. These are hobbies that have either politics neutral or left leaning communities. If he picks up that you’re trying to politically influence him, he’ll likely dig his heal in.
This is great advice, and combine it with talking to him. My son was into Tate, and then Rogan, and a few others throughout his years. He would tell me about something they said and I would tear it down with logic and empathy, and then explain the right mindset from which to view whatever the given subject was. Indoctrination requires isolation, so keep an open dialogue, and an open mind, and talk them down from the ledge.
First question: when you use the terms “liberal” and “fascist” do you mean them in their original sense or as they are currently employed in US English?
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It’s hard to do that when he shows such clear disdain for his siblings.
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Normal gift, yes.
Love conquers all? This isn’t a Hallmark movie, yo. Have a chat after Xmas. If you have the presence of mind to see your kids supporting shit we literally fought wars over, you don’t pat them on the head and say “ah it’ll be fine”.
Be a good parent; talk to your kids.
Love will conquer all the hatred
Not only that, but the hatred on the right will consume them. Sit back, lay low, don’t participate and let the fools burn themselves. Opposition will only give them targets to blame for their failures.
Being conservative depends on you being fearful rather than empathic. The fast way to get people to turn from conservatism is promoting behavior that is focused on doing good for others and providing an environment where someone might not have as much external stressors triggering a fear response.
Kick him out of the house… This trick always worked like magic back in the day when boomers didn’t like something their high schooler did.
That’s literally what fascist parents do to their gay and trans kids. Great fucking plan.
Yes, this never happened to CIS white male 🤡
It was just an example
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Coal
The wicked have enough coal
Hell, its making them rich!No! That’s what they want!
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Additionally, I would suggest activities that doesn’t isolate him further or put him in a group of like minded people. Cooking classes would be nice.
While cooking classes might be nice, I would think for someone who is suspected of falling into the fascist sphere of influence that masculinity is more than likely highly emphasized so they would more than likely be offended by the thought of cooking.
Although if you could frame it in a masculine sense like barbeque then maybe you could get somewhere. I don’t know if there are specific group barbeque classes though lol
This is a really interesting cultural one that always kinda surprises me.
Where I am, cooking has always been a very masculine thing. Cutting up meat with sharp knives, setting things on fire, etc. The chef industry here is very male dominated and men cook together as a social thing when hanging out. In most families I encounter, the dad does most of the cooking with the exception of maybe baking? It’s weird to hear that it would ever be thought of as insufficiently masculine.
In fact I think it would be seen as maybe a bit embarrassing/weak if you were a man who couldn’t cook.
To be honest, my shithead US centric mindset kicked in there. OP never mentioned being from the US, but the rise of fascism has been a major focus as of late so I assumed they were.
It’s good to know other countries are more sensible and don’t share our stupid concept of masculinity being degraded by not having a woman be your
kitchen slavecook.
A lot of people recommend anything, outdoors, hiking, camping, dirt bikes etc.
I want to say you have to be careful with those. As you can easily spiral into right wing, conspiracy theorist territory.
Youtube is very good at pushing that kind of content.
Maybe something about food, like cooking classes, or about traveling.
Edit: I developed my comment a bit more below. Hiking isn’t a right wing hobby per say. But here is the experience I had with youtube. If you start browsing video about camping and hiking. You will probably start browsing video about solo camping, then survivalism. Then youtube will try to push video about paranormal activities and conspiracies.
So the important part is cut down on social media.
I think a lot of right wing people are people who have travelled very little. If OP can afford it, maybe a trip somewhere with the family.
So hiking is fascist now?
Survivalist militias are, and guess who already has a history of going too far…
No no, it’s not really what I mean. Hiking is great, and everything that has to do with nature.
But I enjoy sometimes watching video about surviving in nature, bushcraft and youtube algorithm started pushing stuff about Paranormal shit, conspiracy things.
It might be true about anything. it’s juste something to keep in mind. Before pushing OP’s son to get a hunting or fishing license.
But clearly disconnecting from social media can help.
If you have to advise about hobbies, boardgaming is nice, rollerblading too.
You ought to edit your comment above because it reads like you’re telling people those things are dangerous.
