May the first amendment suit she files after this gain her the money she needs for her healthcare. And may whatever insurance company this is be dissolved.
Stephen Bonczyk of Lakeland Florida is a tyrant and fascist who doesn’t respect our right to free speech in the US. In my opinion.
They think they’re making an example. That this will have a chilling effect.
They’re wrong. All this is going to do is radicalize even more people. As it should.
The last part was probably it but its clear they are scared. That fills my heart with joy.
I hope the CEOs lie awake at night with fear in their cold dead hearts.
No they don’t, and you know it. There will be less in person meetings tho. Or at least more often at retreat locations, not at the usual headquarters.
This will definitely ease tensions among the masses and rouse support for the Healthcare execs lmao
Won’t someone think of the CEOs.
I think of them all the time actually…
removed by mod
Threatening the hospital that was denying my father care, leaving him to die, was the only way I got into the literal board room to reason with them. I got them to resume treatment after they dicked around for a month and he refused to leave because he was going to die if he left.
He still died because he was so sick at that point that they couldn’t do the procedure he needed when he first arrived.
So I threatened them in 2010, and I’d fucking do it again now for my child. We are supposed to stand up for our loved ones.
It’s disgusting. There needs to be legal recognition of all that is at stake for patients and their families. The denial of necessary care is structural violence and should be treated as such by everyone.
Agreed. It’s straight up murder
Maybe if you get another vote?
As in, if trump doesn’t turn the country into a dictatorship, hopefully we have a future candidate that will treat health care as a human right? 🤞
got them to resume treatment after they dicked around for a month and he refused to leave because he was going to die if he left.
I had to play this card once, too. I was in the cardiac unit for 28 days, and they were going to send me home because they couldn’t figure out what was wrong, and the insurance decided I wasn’t worth the expense anymore.
I refused to leave until they gave me a diagnosis, because i would have just died otherwise.
Pretty sure the healthcare system still wants that.
What was wrong?
Dysautonomia causing SVT and sinus arrest. I have a loop monitor now and am on heart meds.
e: they wanted to send me home with ‘anxiety’.
What did you threaten them with? Thats the most important part.
Financial extermination. But threat of violence would’ve been my next step in trial and error. It’s my family… I’d do anything for them. People even told me I should’ve. It was a tough situation and I was young. A little younger than Luigi.
Once you threaten violence, its a ticket straight to jail. Not very effective
Yeah, threatening violence is useless currently. Either act on it or have a plan B.
Well I wouldn’t say that. But threats of violence are best done anonymously
Ok yeah fair enough
Jesus fucking Christ we are so damn cooked. It’s actually joever.
signed, a floridianI imagine the “Delay, Deny, Depose” didn’t get her in trouble nearly as much as the “You people are next” part. Yeah, that’s a bit hostile there.
I can agree with your statement, but is it an act of terrorism? I don’t think her threat should be categorized as terrorism.
I don’t think it’s terrorism either as I understand. Terrorism targets citizens for leverage.
Clearly she was saying that they were next to receive a gift basket for all their hard work in denying claims for profit
I’ve met victims of domestic violence who were threatened much worse than “you guys are next” so I’m not buying this as anything other than the system trying to use her as an example.
Were their threats recorded? The fact that people have said worse doesn’t change the fact that it was a threat.
Oops, I completely misinterpreted your comment. Not sure what etiquette says, but I feel silly and am removing mine.
I agree that this person saying “you guys are next” is not a threat to the degree that it should be chargeable, and that she’s being made an example of.
Just want to point out that your example implies domestic violence is a lower level of violence, and as such this shouldn’t count as a real threat?
Reading comprehension ain’t for everyone.
Edit: on some reflection that might be a rude reply if you don’t already know that domestic violence threats in the US are largely ignored.
Thanks for the reflection edit! I don’t think I’m stupid, but you’re right that I didn’t read your comment correctly. Do you want me to remove my original reply?
Edit: decided to remove
For something really embarrassing -
Original embarrassing comment:
I hate Star Trek
Newly edited comment:
edit: removed opinion I reconsidered
I recommend doing it like I did below the horizontal lines down there 👇
_btw, tap me 4 formatting tip_
To strike through, use ~~ before and after the offending text:
~~This text would be strike’d~~
The United States has the most equitable healthcare system on earth.Edit: sorry about that, cat stepped on my keyboard
“a bit hostile” -> straight to jail
Do not threaten commerce, they don’t tolerate that. The money must flow at all costs.
Seems like free speech to me?
First amendment doesn’t cover true threats. So it all kinda depends on context and whether who it was said to felt as though they were in real danger.
Bullshit. Denying life saving care is a much much much more direct threat to life, as are abortion denials. The concept of a true threat depends mainly on whether you are an acceptable threat maker or not.
Except if you are actively dying and I refuse to help in my personal capacity, I’m not threatening to harm you. I’m just not helping you from imminent harm (presuming I didn’t cause that imminent harm). Now if you’re on fire and I’m currently watering my lawn with the hose when you ask for help, it’s shitty of me to not help. But if you’re in a gunfight with someone and you’re asking me to render aid as they are still a threat, sorry pal.
E: Apparently some ignorant idealists don’t like making a distinction. Tough shit. From a legal standpoint, that’s how it works.
Hot take here in Lemmy. Get it while it’s still hot!
Now if you’re on fire and I’m currently watering my lawn with the hose when you ask for help, it’s shitty of me to not help.
Inaction is still an action. If you have the ability to save someone and you let them die, you may as well have started the fire yourself.
The only real point you have is that you don’t render aid when there’s an active threat.
I’m just not helping you from imminent harm
Doesn’t the law protect that in some way? I thought medical professionals were compelled to save lives first and then “worry” about costs later with the Hippocratic Oath and all. Or maybe it’s limited to some instances? Idk, I’m not from the US and our system works way differently.
That is a “good Samaritan” law. They can compel you to help, but that could be calling law enforcement. That’s also why in my examples the gunfight still had a deadly threat. No laws compel you to put yourself in danger to help.
That doesn’t seem like a true threat to me.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-1/true-threats
A person speaking out of anger who the person does not have a real reason to fear and believe they’ll follow through is not a true threat. Saying “you’re next” is clearly hyperbole. There’s no chance she loses this case. They’re just trying to make an example out of her for the moment to scare other people.
You might say it is a true threat in and of itself. There is very good reason for people to believe the state will arrest more people who use this speech. They’re assuming this is true, because they want them to fear them in order to stop them. This is what we call terrorism, except it’s the state doing it so I guess it’s totally fine.
Even more importantly, it matters who you’re threatening. Your wife? Meh, no biggie. An insurance company? Straight to jail.
There’s no direct threat there more than saying the boogeyman will get you. People threaten marginalized communities like this on TV, radio and social media every day with no impunity because it’s just vague enough not to count because stochastic terrorism is totally cool for SOME people.
Please, marginalized people get more explicitly threatening crap said to them all the time and people rarely get arrested or charged for that. She’s being charged because the system wants to make an example out of her. The judge basically said so himself at the bail hearing,
“I do find that the bond of $100,000 is appropriate considering the status of our country at this point,” the judge said.
100k for a threat made in reaction to what was likely fear for her life, or the life of her loved one.
It’s pretty amazingly cruel.
Ouch. “This place is a shit show,” the judge said. (Not really, just fixed it for him).
They need to appeal this. Clear judicial error. If he wouldn’t have done this 3 weeks ago legally he can’t do it now.
Not saying you are wrong about the marginalized, but in this case she made, what could be considered threatening, a call to a health care provider that was not only actionable, but entirely recorded.
“The system” won’t make an example out of her, “Exhibit A” will. That’s the difference.
Yet, if Trump said it live in front of cameras, it would be “a joke.”
In Trump’s case it would be on 5th avenue in broad daylight.
Just a joke though.
It’s both.
$100k bond for a threat that is neither specific nor credible is absurd.
If it were a first time offender threat against a normal person (which is more specific), at most it would result in probation and a restraining order.
The bond is ridiculous, but the arrest wasn’t.
Talk to any call center worker at any shitty company in the US and they’ll tell you they’ve heard the same thing or worse before. This isn’t new for shitty companies at all, they’re just trying to make it seem like it’s new in response to this situation and not something that they’ve been ignoring for decades.
Ohh good point. Have a call center friend; heard stories…
Looks like a lot of us are going to jail over the next 4 years.
They can’t jail all of us. Deny, defend, depose
That won’t stop them from trying. After all, the prisons are profit centers for them.
Well yeah, those camps won’t fill themselves!
deleted by creator
“The working class is being oppressed to the point of breaking, so we better just keep them all locked up.”
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
How much do judges make? The average income is around 30k a year in us, and thats just the income not even saving.
No one making 30k is going to have savings
I don’t get how people live on 30k. They have to be a multi income residence. Even in the cheap areas, that is so little in this country.
Let’s not make him a liar
The “status of our country” is genocidal empire of massive inequality destroying the planet.
Interesting to note, they mentioned the Florida woman’s name, but not the judge’s.
Interesting, interesting, interesting.
I take it that was the the information they could get.
Well Lakeland is Polk county, known by people who grew up in FL as the meth capital of Florida. All arrest records are public record in Florida, so finding a judge wouldn’t be hard I imagine. First appearance court rooms should be the link below. Not sure which judge it would have been on Wednesday.
I said Wednesday because if she was arrested Tuesday Florida does first appearances the next morning (unless it’s a weekend) https://www.jud10.flcourts.org/virtual-courtroom-links/polk-first-appearance
Fucking florida. It’s like they all live there to prove a just god does not exist as they haven’t been washed away yet despite it being fucking florida.
No, but in 10 to 20 years nature will be doing the Lord’s work.
The beatings will continue until moral improves.
“Status of our country.” Lol. A fucking gilded age shithole where the rich a finally being treated like the outta be?
She threatened the ruling class. And in a feudal society are not allowed to do that.
Honestly the judge can be added to the fucking list.
Evil. They’re evil.
She said “Delay, Deny, Depose. You people are next,” according to the article.
Funny part is insurance companies hear worse than this all day long however this is their trigger.
L O L
previously it was at some poor customer support agent in a 3rd world country, now the danger is to the mega donors oligarchy club members.
won’t be tolerated.
I hope she’s right
deleted by creator
It’s weird, because I took it to mean that the people she’s talking to are going to be denied insurance in some way next.
I mean we can assume, and it’s fairly likely, that it was a reference to the assassination, but American court is fucked if this is enough.
She didn’t say she was going to be involved in whatever the “next” thing ment. Might have been a heart-felt warning against vigilantes.Also, the “next” thing might well have been “…to get much needed care denied”.
Legally this is so flimsy it’s a waste of time. Looking at wording from politicians there’s way more direct calls to violence which will never be prosecuted. In practice it shows the pull of big corporations with cops, and inconveniences the life of an already inconvenienced person.
Yet, if some citizen tells another citizen directly, “I’m going to kill you until you are dead,” and that second citizen then goes to the police to report it, the police will respond, “we have no proof other than your hearsay, person one has to actually commit some act of violence before we can even issue a restraining order (worthless) let alone do any ‘police work.’”
This is how it acts in citizen-to-citizen interaction in the real world. A business gets special treatment versus a citizen, yet again.
(Regardless of how crass or inappropriate her angry comment was. Remember: America lets Nazis exist because “free speech” - it’s a huge hypocrisy.)
deleted by creator
that makes anything you say after implied to have given consent for the recording, bypassing any two-party comsent laws.
That… doesn’t sound like two party consent to me. Are you saying that I can tell someone “I’m recording this call” and they don’t have to actually consent, they just have to not mention it?
They consent by continuing the call. They can otherwise hang up
And if you hang up you can’t deal with the claim denial. So really, wouldn’t that start to tread the line of coercion? If you don’t consent to being recorded we’ll continue to deny healthcare.
Oh honey… they were going continue denying the claim either way.
It depends on the state. Not all states have two-party consent.
Some states you don’t even need that. I live in a one-party state, so I wouldn’t need to tell someone they’re being recorded, as long as I knew they were.
Legally, the fact that you didn’t hang up the phone after that disclaimer means you consented.
deleted by creator
Makes sense. I don’t usually call customer service - I tend to use email or social media where possible, so that I have everything in writing with timestamps, just in case I need to refer back to it or use it as evidence.
Does that mean I can also record them?
deleted by creator
But you can say “Just so you know, this phone call is being recorded” and if they continue to talk, they are implicitly giving consent
Which makes it kind of bullshit and not two-party, since in many cases this is effectively the only means of communicating with these companies. There is no real option to not consent, especially in the case of healthcare companies, since it’s not like a person can just choose to not have a body with real medical concerns (and in the US you legally can’t even go uninsured without penalty). Calling this “two party” at this point is a fucking joke.
You can literally choose to not say anything about threatening or murdering someone over a recorded call.
Because police exist to protect capital, not people.
If you have a recording of someone threatening to kill you, the police can absolutely act.
Threatening to kill someone unless they give you what you want is not protected speech. Otherwise, you could walk into a bank, demand they give you money under threat of violence, then walk out having committed no crimes.
I’m sorry to say, but that’s not necessarily true. It would need to be a police recording or record of someone threatening you for them to actually have to do anything. You could walk into a precinct with a bona fide video of someone making a serious threat to your life and the police typically won’t do anything about it. That same person could make a clip about murdering you and post it online with a clear plan to kill you and the police still wouldn’t have to act. All of that is hearsay, regardless of how serious the intent is and the police can choose to ignore it. Unless it’s someone worth helping, someone who might be able to make a sizable donation.
The police doesn’t have to act if a person drags another person into the precinct and murders them in front of all the cops according stupid US courts (Warren v. District of Columbia).
That’s why 2a and self-defense are such important rights. You want to be safe? Better take care of it yourself (or elect a 3rd party that will change the status quo, but fantasy solutions don’t count).
Remember the time Lemmy was so outraged at the elections that they, un ironically, became Unabomber stans
I wish.
Outraged at elections or outraged that despite decades of the football being tossed around each election, that nothing changes, and the only way to make change is via violence at this point?
I was literally told by some dude that “if I see you again, I’ll fucking kill you” while I was walking my dog at night around my town’s library. I told the police and they didn’t do jack shit. Whereas this lady gets a hit by a $100,000 bond?
They’re determined aren’t they? To just completely make Luigi a martyr.
I’m surprised they aren’t just burying the news completely.
Doing this shit is just throwing gasoline on the fire
According to the affidavit, 42-year-old Briana Boston used the phrase during a call with BlueCross BlueShield about a denied claim.
“Delay, Deny, Depose. You people are next,” she allegedly said near the end of the call.
The “You people are next” line certainly adds some context to this story.
A bit, but it still doesn’t explain how this warrants terrorism charges and $100,000 bail. A visit from the police and probation or anger management courses? OK I still don’t really agree but it makes some sense. But not prison time. She’s getting punished harder than many rapists and child molesters.
Why wouldn’t an insinuation of terrorism warrant a terrorism charge and a lot of bail money? That doesn’t make sense.
MAGA paraded with more direct threats of violence on signs, after Jan 6th, with no accountability.
I’m sure the “Free Speech” people are up in arms about this, right?
Yes, actually, I am. This is nowhere near an actionable threat and arresting her over it is insanity and should be criminal itself.
It was the, “You people are next”. If she had just used his catchphrase I doubt we’d be here.
I didn’t think that holds muster either. It could mean many different things, even in context. The bar for true threats in the US is very high, as it should be. They clearly wanted to make an example of her to nip this class consciousness in the bud, and our legal system is certainly prone to bad decisions and practices, but in theory I can’t see this passing that high bar.
You need the credible threat cheat code. We should vote to make it legal to kill health insurance CEOs.
please, the free speech brigade only protects important speech, like calling for minority executions
Proof that the justice system only serves the wealthy.
Clown world we living in
One dead cop, no more donut shop. More dead cops, the hurting stops
