- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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I spend a lot more money on good Ethernet switches. But at least that works and is easier to manage than Wifi.
Yeah this kinda overlooks a lot of the issues with like… getting a cable somewhere
Curve ball… I use power line and for my property and in my use case it is not any different to ethernet.
EoP is really cool
My house is relatively new (built 2005), and they pulled cat5 for all the telephone lines and just didn’t hook up the extra pairs of wires. Since nobody uses landlines anymore, I rewired most of the outlets for RJ45.
Have pulled a few more wires, including fiber to my main office PC (so I can have a very fast connection to my NAS). Once you learn a few techniques and the way your building is laid out, it’s not that hard.
My house was built around the same time and had the same feature. I guess VOIP stuff was beginning to take off and people still had land lines. I can’t imagine much new construction has anything for phones.
Yeah, you got to skip over the “getting the wire there” part. If you wanted to replace all that line with cat 5e or cat6 so you can get full duplex gigabit speeds it’d be a much harder task than slapping some rj-45 end onto some old cat 5.
$6.99/5’ of cable. A weekend of manual labor running cable through my walls.
Or $300 for something I can set-and-forget.
Decisions, decisions.
It doesn’t even cost that much for a decent wifi AP either.
$300 in labor is wildly optimistic and true for a simple cable run, maybe
If run probably even a “short” run will typically be at least 20ft. Think, from a wall plate, up an 8ft wall, across a crawl space, down another 8ft wall.
Not all cable runs are simple
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Hay $800 worth of copper, I found a 1000ft roll of shielded pure copper for $2.11 because someone misplaced the decimal point I know because it was listed for $2.1199 every thing was automated through amazon so they just shipped free shipping to, thank for listening $800 worth of copper, your the best.
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you’re
Still cheaper
Nah, wifi is pretty good today. I just dont like the consumer devices like the router shown here. Recently redid my wireless and went with a non wifi router, a poe switch and a few access points, connected through ethernet. I wouldnt dream of going back to the conventional one wifi router. Still use wired for stationary devices I can reach with a cable though… TV, AV, consoles, PC are all wired.
To be honest, I think a lot of Lemmy users are old and yearn for the older technologies simply because they have been more familiar with them than newer ones. They would have used the first gen of a technology, which may not be efficient, and dismiss it altogether, without realising that subsequent generations of that technology improves over time.
I have had that realisation of cognitive bias when I had Bluetooth headphones back in early 2010s. The wireless connection isn’t great and gets cut off every now and then. I dismissed the technology as less efficient than wired earphones. It was over the years with the popularity of airpods that I gave wireless earphones another chance. And honestly, the Bluetooth connectivity vastly improved than I expected and I would not go back to using wired earphones again on regular basis because I don’t have to deal with the wires getting tangled or yanked. I only use wired ones as backup if my wireless earphones went missing or broke.
Sorry to say this to OP, but it seems that you’re being an old man yelling at the clouds. Look, I’m also old and I admit I have had that moment of yelling at the clouds too. We will have that more moments as we age.
I have a similar setup to @[email protected] in regards to my home network and I wouldn’t dream of removing my wifi network. I still consider wired to be superior though it rarely matters at those latencies.
My Windows laptop on wifi:
My Fedora on wired network:
But what if you’re gaming downstairs and the router is upstairs and then you have to go upstairs for pizza rolls so you take your gaming laptop upstairs and you’re eating right next to the router and so you’re just plugged in and then what if you forgot to turn off the oven and your girlfriend is yelling at you “You’re going to start a fire! Why can’t you remember to turn off the oven? What’s wrong with you?” and then you go back downstairs to finish gaming?
I use the microwave for my pizza rolls like a savage. Problem solved.
I eat my pizza rolls cold, like a savage
If that happens often enough to be worth 43 times more than the cat cable, then it sounds totally justified to me. But also, what if you got a toaster oven for upstairs? To put next to the router?
What if you used the router as the toaster oven? Tapping_head.gif
That one in the picture is $599 isn’t it?
Wireless tech has improved greatly over the last 20 years. Speed, latency, bandwidth, stability…all generally excellent. 15 years ago I wouldn’t have wanted to use a wireless mouse or LAN connection. Now? NBD. They just work. Still have issues with poor signal in some areas, but mesh range boosters take care of that pretty easily.
Wireless peripheral devices, sure, but if I’m streaming 4K with HD sound then I still want copper.
Even shitty wireless will let you stream 4k. It only takes 50mbps. 802.11g came out in 2003 and can do 54mbps.
Shitty wireless lets you stream shitty 4K. Yay? Copper is still king for anything that’s not a goddamn webrip.
Wtf dude, that was the example you provided, and then you mocked it. Make up your mind.
If it was a shitty example, why did you use it?What would be a good example of things people commonly want and have access to but that wireless cant do?
Get reliable connection ?
What do you consider a reliable connection?
I just tested my connection to my ISP on my wireless gaming computer, and I got:
2ms ping
0ms jitter
0% packet loss
With >500mbps down
And almost those same numbers from my phone in the next room.So what do you consider the qualifications for “reliable” connect, if that doesn’t meet them?
The fact that you don’t have to worry about Wifi suddenly getting weak for one
They’re saying 50Mbps 4k is shitty, not that 4k is a bad example. Modern Wi-Fi can definitely handle high-bitrate video 99% of the time, but that 1% where someone turns on a microwave can cause hella buffering. If you have the ability to run ethernet there’s no benefit to using Wi-Fi.
Why are you limited to 50Mbps 4k, if not limited by the server? I haven’t had an issue with microwaves in like a decade. Maybe it’s an issue for people with bachelor apartments where their router and microwave are on the same table?
Seriously, I was going to add my WiFi6e is theoretically way overkill for my limited usage and that’s supported by speed tests, yet I do notice its limitations while gaming. It’s got the bandwidth, it’s even got the low latency, but it also has the glitches. Until that speed is reliable enough to never impact my games, it’s not worth being my first choice
Even then, wired is better where appropriate because it just works. The more devices I can put on Ethernet, the fewer require the extra setup of wifi, the extra risks to eavesdropping and single points of failure, and yes the fewer where I ever have the frustration of glitches
50mbps is a fuckterrible bitrate for 4k HDR video content.
You should be playing physical media anyway, though.
I got a used 10Gbe switch and a thunderbolt 10Gbe adapter for my computer and now I can transfer my videos and photos from my NAS like it’s my internal hard drives.
It can also do 2.5Gbe which pretty much future proofs me.
Ethernet is obviously better but running ethernet around your home can be a pain in the arse
Or if you rent. I could run an Ethernet cable to my office from my router, but it would have to run upstairs and across a few doorways.
A pain in the arse you only need to do once, and you can hire someone to do it for you for basically the same cost as a couple of the high end wireless routers, so in like 5 years, you break even.
Also, how much have you spent on your computer (s), phone(s), tablet(s), and all your other internet connected devices, and you won’t spend like $500 on something that can run all that stuff simultaneously? Pouring literally thousands of dollars on connected devices, but most won’t pay more than they would for a toaster, to get them on the internet, then pay out the wahzoo for gigabit internet that your crummy d-link router can’t handle, and you wonder why all your fancy gadgets run like shit… It’s a lot like buying a Ferrari to drive on dirt/gravel roads.
I think it’s a little more than $500 to get Ethernet ports installed all around your house. Especially if you need to run through fire breaks and insulation. Will have to wait till a remodel before I can get those installed.
That said, I didn’t skimp on my home networking, even though it’s all wireless. I’ve got 4 WiFi 6 APs on PoE with Cat 6 runs thru the attic. I can get 700 Mbs+ download speeds pretty much anywhere in and around the house.
It could be, depending on where you land on the DIY vs building code spectrum… Also what your local building code details in terms of low voltage cable.
In my experience unless you’re intentionally going through air handling ductwork, CMG is fine, though I would go with CMR at least, just as a matter of safety. I have yet to see a residential home with any fire protection or fire breaks, at all, nevermind where you would think to put them, like between floors and whatnot. The homes in my area are mostly built from timber, so we’re basically living inside a framework of dried out wood, so putting a fire break between wood framed floors where the floor/ceiling shares a set of wooden cross members for support, seems like it would be unnecessary, since the framing of the building is going to conduct the fire between levels.
Ethernet is low voltage, so it’s largely unregulated. The only real regulation is regarding plenum or riser spaces, and the latter is mostly when floors are intentionally or naturally separated in terms of shared fate when it comes to fire. I only see fire breaks in concrete structures, usually apartments or commercial buildings.
YMMV, not every country has the same building codes, so every person reading this will need to do their own research or pay someone who knows.
My point remains, regardless of all this conjecture: even if it’s $2000 or more, this is structure cabling that should service the premise for as long as it continues to stand, which is hopefully many decades. Over 20 years, at $2000 for installation, you’re looking at a cost of around $8.34/mo for the cabling to exist.
Considering people will pay 10x that for Internet service, and the addition of Ethernet in the building will allow them to take full advantage of the internet they’re paying for, I’d call that a bargain.
You will generally run into fire stops in the framing, like you can see here:
https://www.oneprojectcloser.com/fire-stops-fire-blocking-in-studs/
When I ran wires to my office, I had to cut out one section of drywall above it, another below it, and then use a right angle attachment for my drill to go through it. Pull wire through and seal it with fire block foam.
Seems pointless considering the fire stop is made from something flammable.
Its purpose is to slow it down, not stop it. There would be a chimney effect where smoke rises out of the channel and fresh oxygen is allowed to come in from below. The blocks here prevent that from happening.
Oh, I’m not saying it’s not functional in stone capacity. I understand the physics and what is trying to be accomplished with it, but unless it’s done with pretty tight tolerance so any air leakage between the upper and lower spaces is as close to nil as possible, then it’s not going to be super effective.
Preach! I just finished a long DIY remodel and running ethernet to everyroom was less than a $100 in cable and connectors. Obviously it was easier and cheaper for me because I already had a lot of the drywall down.
Either way such a good point you make, people will drop 1k on a phone no questions asked but a few hundred is too much to get the best home upgrade a tech enthusiast could ever ask for.
So far, I’m only £150 down on cable and clips on my rennovation. And this is the decent stuff, AWG23, and double run.
It’ll probably go sideways when I spec up a switch with enough ports, mind…
I could preach all day about this.
I have a simple philosophy: wired when you can, wireless when you have to.
With that being said, doing a site survey for wifi and getting optimal access point locations, then placing Ethernet in ceiling there for said access points, ensures you have good coverage of your space, which then leads into another rant about network hardware and people spending thousands on everything except their router/access points even if they have the structure cables to support such a system…
Then people wonder why their wifi sucks.
I mean, spend a couple hundred one time to get Ethernet run, spend some time on an online ap placement tool and signal estimator for it, and then go buy infrastructure wireless for your home, and spend upwards of $1000 on networking hardware. You’ll get more out of it and it will work for longer than your $1000+ smart phone, or many $1000s laptop that use it almost constantly.
Networking is critical and it should be seamless and blend into the background. You shouldn’t need to mess with it constantly to get it to work. If that’s normal for you, then something is very wrong.
Way less so if your home is constructed such that the wireless is borked
That can be an advantage. Some of the enterprise-level tech has trickled down to consumer WiFi in recent years, which includes browsing between multiple access points. With several access points with relatively weak signal, you get signal right where you need it without broadcasting up and down the street.
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What do you plug that cable into??
Ethernet to USB dock and usb to phone. What, you guys dont use ethernet on your phones?
Patch panel if you’re on the closet side. RJ45 Jack on the station side.
And what is in the closet?
Usually a two post rack or swing cabinet, some UPS back up batteries, network switches, a chubby telecom guy browsing lemmy.
Ya know, the usual.
Lol sounds like a typical home setup 😛
Wireless data links should be the exclusive domain of temporary, nomadic and/or sacrificial applications.
If the channel is permanent, static, or critical; as much of the path as practicable should be provisioned with constrained energy transmission.
Would be cool if building code standards included Cat5 (or even better, USB) along with the standard power and phone connections of new builds.
My PC, laptop, work laptop, are all wired using gigabit. But my laptop on wifi reach 1200Mbps so it’s faster than cable!
If you have only one device on Wi-Fi, multiplexing turned off, or especially if you have MU-MIMO support, Wi-Fi can be faster than a single wired connection. It is still higher latency and subject to other drawbacks such as security and power consumption, but of course it offers advantages that can outweigh the disadvantages depending on use case and user needs.
That said, it’s technically not faster than the cable, but rather faster at the data link or network layer. For example, CAT8 physically supports up to 40Gbps, but most consumer and even professional electronics only support up to 2.5Gbps. Only really enterprise level switches can push up to like 100Gbps onto copper, and even then that’s using QSFP transceivers, not RJ-45 connections. Fiber cables regularly push 400Gbps.
Impressive, I lose half my speed with the router around the corner.
Same lol. I get 800Mbps on Cat6, but 1100 on Wifi 6 with one of these fancy expensive 11000ax gaming routers that has all those antennas (antennae?).
Something is wrong there then, because no other ethernet spec is going to cap at 800 Mbps, it’s 10, 100, 1000, 2.5g 5g 10g etc
I know but IDK. Just figured it was an overhead thing. Having a connection that can max out a gigabit ethernet port is still fairly new territory for me.
Faster than gigabit, but not 2.5 gigabit. Your cables likely support the speed, just your ports and switching hardware are capped at gigabit.
It’s not extremely expensive, but unless you move around a lot of big files, you’re probably getting very diminished returns, even spending less than twice as much for 2.5x speeds.
Who buys a $300 home wifi box? They’re $50-100
Depends on usage. If you don’t need super fast speeds or low latency, go for cheaper model.
If you need low latency and high speeds (ex. Wireless VR with PC), you need to pay more to get good and stable connection (+ multiple routers as mesh if needed). And more expensive devices have different CPU/RAM which will help you if you have large network + extra security features on.
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Just use something shielded and at least cat 5
I’m seriously thinking of getting a usbC-ethernet dongle for my mobile, for when I’m at my desk.
I, too, have shitty wireless. In fact, for my work laptop, that’s exactly what I do. So much more reliable. Way too many wireless connections on too many channels close by.
If you have wireless charging then you should definitely get the dongle. I have one for those times I need stability. Get a thin lightweight USB C extender so the dongle is not getting in the way.
Getting a USB dock instead would probably get you both charging and Ethernet.
I have one that has hdmi and usb as well so I can use my phone in desktop mode on a monitor, then I use parsec to get in my VM and I have access to a full desktop experience
Nice!
For others considering this, keep in mind that not all phones support external monitors, they need specific hardware for it. Pretty much all Samsung S phones support it, Pixels do not. So check if your phone supports external displays before you buy any hardware!
Google added external monitor support starting with the Pixel 8. So, yeah… Most don’t support it, but newer ones do!
Can you not charge and use a single USB-C port at the same time?
Yes you can. You just need a dock instead.
I mean I just have more than one port and can charge using the dedicated charging port.
What laptop are you using that makes it such an affair to use two USB-C ports?
Edit: I missed the “mobile” part
If I’m reading the thread correctly, they’re referring to a mobile phone which only has 1 USB port typically
Ah butts, you’re right, the first guy said “mobile” and I didn’t read it correctly. I can’t figure why they would ever need a connection like that for their phone, though.
