cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/50439521
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/33851469
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Because most school shooters aren’t adults.
Also, most school shooters don’t survive.
Yeah, because the US “justice” system famously never treats juvenile defendants as adults in order to mete out draconian punishment that eliminates all chances for rehabilitation…
And they have definitely ratified the UNCRC because they definitely do not want to put kids in adult prisons, right?
The US Supreme Court prevented people who committed crimes as juveniles from being executed a number of years ago. Trump’s group might change that, but for now it is the law. They technically cannot be incarcerated forever either.
I mean Luigi barely counts.
Isn’t he 26?
Exactly, so he’s just now turning into his final adult sets of ideas and personality.
In the US an 18 year old is the same as a 26 or 56 year old under the law.
That doesn’t mean they can’t be tried as terrorists. The main problem here is actually whether or not the facts of the crime actually allow for a terrorism charge. Fact is, he had a manifesto (see ideological goals), and the shooting was a violent criminal act.
According to the FBI that’s all it takes. It may also be what is lacking in the case of some school shooters.
While I am generally on the side of “CEO FAFO”, I recognize that the problem here is that the FBI and the laws they follow are flawed (probably deliberately) in such a way that they only target those who target the wealthy.
Shooting up a school is an act of terrorism if you do it because you’re targeting a soft target in an attempt to hurt the local, state or federal government or you’re religiously motivated etc. But not if you were bullied.
There’s been plenty of over 18 mass shooters who also haven’t been charged with terrorism. And with each one there’s people who will say they don’t want the US to become more of a police state because they believe that counterterrorism techniques (which we use internationally) shouldn’t be used against the general population.
The federal government has a habit of overstepping the rights and freedoms of the general public any time they feel like they are under attack. We saw this with 9/11 and the Patriot act. So I can see their reasoning even if I don’t agree that mass shooters should be considered terrorists under the law.
Doesn’t make sense to compare a rate of an outcome (without even knowing how often that outcome was sought) with an individual attempt whose outcome is not even known yet.
When Mangione IS actually given the death penalty, this ‘argument’ will actually amount to something. Dumb until then.
“because their lives don’t matter as much as CEOs”
This is the defining moment. This is our future
Because it’s about sending a message. They’ve seen how popular this guy and his actions have become and are trying to throw everything at him so it puts off any copycats.
Except all they have done is make him a martyr, and now anyone who wants to be infamous is more likely to do something.
True, hopefully it will backfire.
Death penalty increases violence because murdering the person catching you becomes a way to increase your likelihood of surviving.
So basically, killing Luigi would not make copycats less likely, but it WOULD make it more likely for copycats to shoot CEOs AND cops?
Hmm… The killing of Luigi itself would be awful, of course, but the consequences of it sound like a win to me 🤔
[oh no… Anyway. PNG]
No, the death penalty increasing violence is about incentives.
If I shoot someone dead and you are the only witness, I have a choice to make. If I do not want to be executed, killing you is the best chance for escaping punishment.
The more severe the punishment the more desperate one will become to avoid it.
Death penalty backfires because it demonstrates fear for what this person keeps saying.
That would make him a martyr. I’m thinking the plan is to lock him up in max for life, then control the media narrative whenever his name comes up again.
Everyone who saw how this thing went down gonna have to spend their lives correcting false narratives they will weave.
We didn’t do know for snowden, public opinion got split altht funny enough it seems people have came around on Snowden.
Either way, luigi did not do anything wrong
Haven’t seen any copycats yet.
Plans take time. Better wait a few weeks until the CEOs start to relax again
The death penalty has not been executed in NY/federal court for decades right? Doesn’t seem like an actual threat. What they want to achieve is a good negotiating position for a plea bargain because they known a trial will be a shitshow.
What religion this mr. Mangione represented?
Good luck finding a jury to convict him of jaywalking.
Some homicides are self defence.
Lol this isn’t one of those.
We’re in a pretty nice bubble here on Lemmy and the fediverse. There’s a LOT of bootlickers who happily want him convicted
Vigilante justice only feels nice when you agree with the Vigilante. The curse of internet bubbles is that people feel like everyone agrees. Bubbles build extreme values and a lack of understanding of other peoples values.
You become right. Others become bootlickers.
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Or… killing people is wrong, even shitty people.
Or actually lots and lots of reasons. In a nuanced world filled with billions of people, there are very different viewpoints.
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opposing world views fighting
Imagine thinking there should be consequences for assassins.
Sometimes the consequence for doing a good thing is that people like that you did a good thing, legality be damned.
For that very reason… He will never see a jury. This will be decided by ONE judge…
Who has already written his poinion
6th amendment guarantees the right to a jury trial. The only way he doesn’t see a jury is if he waives that right.
I wonder why executioners don’t get doxxed.
This you shall offer in the morning and this you shall offer at twilight, a lamb without blemish.
I love bow this meme gets fact checked and the thesis get tighter.
Brian Thompson is a parasite, no empathy for them
New York doesn’t have the death penalty though?
He’s askari getting federal charges. Those do.
The feds also indicted him. There’s zero chance a Trump AG isn’t going to be pushing for the death penalty. What they cannot seem to understand is that this will only make him a martyr. They should have just given him the standard NY Murder II conviction any other killer would get, but they just couldn’t help themselves. They had to really send a message to the proles.
All they will succeed in doing is elevating him to outright sainthood.
They had to really send a message to the proles.
They did, just not what they expected?
Am I supposed to fear feds because I think Luigi if he did it, did nothing wrong?
Or I suppose to fear them if I am gonna dpa. Copycat… I am pretty sure that guy would want luigi treatment… Kill me goverment while the working class talking about the topic I brought to the national level discussion.
Also, I am not sure what’s up with the pictures. But luigis body language is of a man who is in control.
They are the ones getting bent out of shape.
Single payer or bust. The working class will need to get this done either now or in 25 years.
My personal tinfoil hat is that they are seeking the death penalty so he accepts a deal. They are scared of jury nullification.
They haven’t said they are seeking the death penalty. They have charged him with a crime where they could seek it.
But I agree they’re pushing for a deal.
That isn’t tinfoil-hat at all. I was reading a news story recently about how worried they are that they’ll have trouble finding impartial jurors, since there’s so much sympathy for him.
How exactly does this work? How do they determine someone to be impartial? If they weed out people for having sympathy but keep people who don’t, aren’t they making that jury partial to finding him guilty?
That’s the quiet part out loud. They want a jury that will convict him.
The jury is supposed to be unbiased, i.e. not favoring one side or the other. Obviously, it’s impossible to get a jury that’s completely impartial, especially in a case that’s as high-profile as this one, but they have to try.
They ask the jurors questions and then each side has the opportunity to remove ones that they deem problematic.
That’s normal though. I mean it shouldn’t be, but they always go as hard as they can hoping you’ll plead guilty to avoid a trial. When they say the death penalty is meant to dissuade criminals, they know it doesn’t work on crimes. It works on getting guilty pleas.
FFS, it’s not even him, people need to stop accepting he is the killer. He is not, news made sure that pics from the killing footage were buried so people would forgot them, because when you compare them with Luigi, its obviously NOT him… And there is no doubt here, killer is smaller, whiter (like Irish white), slim eyebrows, and less muscle body shape than Luigi.
Why do people try to make him a martyr, when it is not even the killer.
If he isn’t the killer, why did he have the same gun as the killer and a notebook detailing who he was going to kill and how he was going to do it?
Because he is a patsy.
Land of Double Standards.
Pulling an excerpt from George Carlin: “Politicians hide behind three things in this country: The Flag, The Bible and Children. No child left behind! It wasn’t long ago you were talking about giving children a headstart. Headstart, Left Behind. Someone’s losing fucking ground here.”
He spoke the truth but most of us were too young to understand but how did boomers miss these money shots.
They were the audience
Haha funny man is funny. Ooo my 401k is growing, line go up. What’s on TV?
Not that it would have made a difference but as far as I know there was no call to action from Carlin. Without that many people just say yup, that’s life, and keep their head down.
Shouldn’t there be leniency for killing a killer?
Yes I know it’s about “sending a message”, but messages go both ways.In this case, I wouldn’t even call Luigi a killer. He’s a hero, if any.
When the killing is in self defense or in the defense of many, many victims, is this called justifiable homicide?
Yes there are double standards but this is the wrong comparison to make that point.
Most school shooters are minors who are inelligible for the death penalty, and a large percentage don’t survive their own shooting. Either death by cop or suicide.
I have no love for insurance CEOs or our capital-first justice system, but if you’re gonna make a point don’t leave it open to be so easily picked apart.
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Of the adult school shooters, which is most of them anyway, try and find a handful.
