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🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
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If you’re sitting at a poker table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can’t tell what the product is, It’s you.
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
Yeah, I feel like that’s usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn’t really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you’re getting downvoted by so many people who don’t realize you’re pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects don’t have suckers.
misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services
To be honest I don’t think that’s clear at all, it feels like it’s more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
It’s difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but I’d argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means something ultimately isn’t.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenter’s phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant “How the product is being funded”.
Of course, it gets hard when there’s multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
Just open their privacy policy and done. They sell your browsing info, and you could stop it there
I haven’t trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they can’t even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
LTT… toilet flushing! I had no expectations of paypal. To my shame I used them in the past,but deleted my account after reading how scummy they are. fuck paypal and anything affiliated with them.
Mid this year they also started sharing transaction data without consent…
Delete that account
Oh, I deleted it like 1 year ago. it was probably slightly more reputable back then. it does make it easier in some cases to have a centralised way of handling payments, but I’d rather struggle with inserting my cards each time.
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered “yeah, but where do they get their money?” I always figured it was just a way to take people’s data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, let’s be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. It’s basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
“Hey Honey, we’ll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off.”
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasn’t worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesn’t fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we can’t have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. There’s no place for ethics in that combination.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didn’t realize they were playing both sides. It’s fucked.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon product’s country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didn’t work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
There’s a good one for Amazon called Keepa that shows you the price history of the item. Helps a ton keeping prices in check during sales like Prime Day to see how much you are actually saving, if anything.
Also nice to see how much you could potentially save if you just wait for the next sale or if there was already a price decrease. Often times it looks like I’m good buying without waiting for any sale as the sales only knocked off a few dollars, at most.
Triple Camel does this too
Nice! Thanks for the recommendation, I love having alternatives in case anything unexpectedly goes down.
Thank you for the recommendation, looks neat. Tracking prices of different conditions is a nice touch. I’ll have to scrutinize it further when I make my next online purchases and chuck it into Edge as I made that my dedicated shopping browser.
It’s funny how Edge got lambasted for it when they introduced that feature, but it’s legitimately super helpful and non-invasive.
I had no idea it was, I don’t keep up with browser news. I just wish they didn’t migrate to Chromium. It became my main browser for a brief period before that.
I just used it randomly when I was working and doing some shopping for a computer in my downtime and decided to try out the feature. That and the AI are super good when combo’ed to shop smart. Managed to save $800 off a quality laptop.
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
Also pcpartpicker to track pc parts. Isthereanydeals for game prices.
everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Enshittification correctly defined.
I don’t really wanna watch a video… but how do you “steal” affiliate links or coupon codes?
If you are doing affiliate marketing for a company and they give you a coupon code for 10% off called GET10OFF and that code gets used, the affiliate marketer gets the sale no matter where they got that code from?
I assume it looks for affiliate links and replaces the original with it’s own affiliate ID.
He says that when you click on an affiliate link, a cookie gets stored on your browser that lasts for 30 days, saying that the source should get the commission for your purchase. Honey has a popup in checkout, even when there are no codes, with a big “Got It” button to close the popup. Clicking the Got It button replaces the old cookie with a Honey cookie, giving the commission from your purchase to them instead of your source.
and thats only one of the problems he mentions in the video
I’ve slept since I watched and am not great with tech, but iirc the link with the affiliate code when clicked takes you to the site. Then honey has a pop up that, when clicked, replaces the link with their own, swiping the commission. Hope that makes sense - most people likely would not catch it. The Linus tech tips was used as an example of even a tech channel with lots of employees taking quite a while to notice themselves, and even when they did, it wasn’t quite conclusive for some reason?
Another thing the video touched on is that honey would claim to search for coupons but often opt to show what the partnered companies want. So, could be there’s a coupon for 50% but they only show 10%.
Ah gotcha. So what I said about coupon codes would be valid, but affiliate links are different than the coupon codes. Also crazy they hide bigger discounts.
Edit: But I guess they could find a company offering a coupon code, then sign up themselves knowing it’s an option now, and then show that code instead.
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Shit! You are right. Thats horrible. And explains why he freaks me out.
Mr. Beast is completely creepy.
His audience are largely children too
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. It’s hilarious.
It’s a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Oh… THAT’s what’s off!
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
This isn’t even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren’t scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven’t quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it’s buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
I don’t mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first–you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more–but at least it’s clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that’s an immediate red flag.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn’t use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn’t just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
I have been using PayPal increasingly for online payments. Not sure why. I have heard old stories about PayPal but Honey seems really bad. Its basically a given that any fintech company are going to be dodgy scammers but PayPal seemed almost grown up and respectable. Guess not.
I use Klarna for basically everything I buy. I should probably reevaluate that. But I’ve had no issues so far. It notifies me when my payments are due. Helps me collect the sum of what I owe each month, each week. Helps me group payments to pay similar/connected things simultaneously, categorize purchases, etc, etc.
I really hope there’s nothing dodgy going on there. But at least I’m not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I’m paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
I’m guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
I really hope there’s nothing dodgy going on there
In 2023 they got a 1.1 million SEK fine for breaking the law that regulates working hours. To “allow” (strongly encourage) your employees to work nightshifts you need a collective agreement approved by the union, which they didn’t have.
More recently, they got a 500 million SEK fine for skirting the anti-money laundering regulations in Sweden.
But at least I’m not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I’m paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
The whole “buy now, pay later” deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If that’s true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
I’m guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
Correct. Like all credit banks they promote the “buy now, pay later” option before direct payment, which is becoming a pandemic on our society. Hardly any user interaction needed. They also offer their own payment plans which encourages buying even more expensive items you cannot afford.
Yeah. I definitely don’t think I’m the target audience for their service. Paying everything on time, every time. Buying only what I can afford. Etc.
The whole “buy now, pay later” deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If that’s true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
I’m not very educated in economics, so I’m struggling to understand this. Is there a way to easily explain this? I’m 38 so… please use big words if you like, but simple domain language. 😅
Maybe use privacy.com instead (they also have an app), they can generate virtual credit cards and you can set limit is (one time payment, or monthly $10 only, etc). It’s great if you need to cancel something or if they try to charge you extra. Saved me $150 when boost tried to charge me 1 year after I bought a phone from them!
It’s also great for predatory services like GYM membership that you can’t cancel.
Oh you naive child
A useful question to ask when hearing about a new company is “What’s your business model?”
“Where are they getting money to pay for sponsorships and what are their motivations”
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There is no such thing as a free and benevolent product with an advertising budget.
Free and benevolent maybe not. but genuine and non malicious?
“What’s your business model?” “we make and sell delicious sandwiches. Customer buys the sandwich for a little mote than it costs to make so we get money for ourselves.” That isn’t a scam.
Correct. It’s not a scam. Because it’s not free. The sandwich had a price posted, you paid it, you received the product. Valid business model.
What would you think instead if you saw a NYT front page ad taken out for Free Sandwich Mart, the all-you-can-eat totally free sandwich emporium?
Or in this case, a free browser extension that paid to sponsor five thousand YouTube videos that promises to help you pay less money to every store you activate it on at no cost to you?
Yes. Which is why, when you see a novel service being advertised, it is a useful exercise to ask of them “What is your business model?”
Wikipedia
Their advertisement budget is collected by guilt tripping Wikipedia users using the lie that the website would cease if they didn’t ”donate”.
Yes, their method of advertising/fundraising is atrocious. They still have an advertising budget and their product is benevolent and free.
I agree
Show me a Wikipedia ad that they paid money for?
They have a budget spent on advertising on wikipedia itself, plus the cost of the emails they send out asking for donations.
Does it even count if you’re advertising on your own platform? If I’m able to see the “ads” in the first place, I’m already using it.
I also wouldn’t exactly call a donation drive “advertising” either. They’re not trying to onboard more users to the service, they’re nagging people who already use the service to give them money. Which is itself leaning a bit on the wall of what is and isn’t “free”.
Does it even count if you’re advertising on your own platform?
YES
I guess most people don’t have much knowledge about affiliate link URLs and how easily they can be rewritten to shift where the commission goes. I implemented SkimLinks on a hunch of websites so I’ve seen it before. Forum owners used to get upset about anyone posting product links in their comments because they night include an affiliate code. SkimLinks adds JavaScript to every page that rewrites those codes to the forum owner’s personal account. It will even insert an affiliate code into basic Amazon links that don’t have one. Once this came out, forums went a lot easier on Amazon links.
After seeing all this, the second I spot a browser extension that wants to get between me and Amazon, I immediately assume they will rewrite all the links for their own benefit. Otherwise what’s in it for them? This news isn’t much of a surprise.
The biggest issue that this video brings up is that businesses can filter out certain coupon codes if the discount is too high
This isn’t anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
That doesn’t include users being a victim? Honey gives users worse coupons when better ones are available, apparently that happens if companies do a deal with Honey.
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
Wait, when did Paypal buy Honey? 😳
2020 for $4 billion.
And Honey has always worked like this. So PayPal knew exactly what they were buying which explains the price tag. Paypal knew they were going to make their money back and then some.
