🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
The product is spyware by design. It’s a honey pot for people trying to save a few bucks, while exposing their entire browsing behavior. They even called it honey…
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Shit! You are right. Thats horrible. And explains why he freaks me out.
Mr. Beast is completely creepy.
His audience are largely children too
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. It’s hilarious.
It’s a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Oh… THAT’s what’s off!
Just open their privacy policy and done. They sell your browsing info, and you could stop it there
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
This isn’t even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren’t scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven’t quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it’s buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
I don’t mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first–you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more–but at least it’s clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that’s an immediate red flag.
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn’t use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn’t just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
If you’re sitting at a poker table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can’t tell what the product is, It’s you.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
Yeah, I feel like that’s usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn’t really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you’re getting downvoted by so many people who don’t realize you’re pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
It’s difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but I’d argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means something ultimately isn’t.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects don’t have suckers.
misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services
To be honest I don’t think that’s clear at all, it feels like it’s more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenter’s phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant “How the product is being funded”.
Of course, it gets hard when there’s multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
Pretty sure this was already posted yesterday when it came out. Or it might have been a different community.
Watching the full video is important though because they are scamming the consumer too, not just “”“influencers”“”. Someone made a great comment about how it’s just one greedy troll stealing from another and has no effect on the consumer since they still save money but Honey not actually giving you the best coupons on purpose is next level dickholery.
Lying about the coupons really should be the focus so people stop harming themselves using Honey.
I never use affiliate links AND I don’t bother looking for coupons (let’s be honest, who does?) so I don’t give a crap, every now and then I’m saving money without taking it from anyone 🤷
idk, I find the coupon thing to be super easy. Just takes one search and maybe two clicks if you have ad blockers on. Mostly the only time is if I’m ordering something like pizza for a get together where no special applies. There’s a local chain in my state that had a coupon code for half off my order that wasn’t listed on their site (they might’ve given it to me if I called but who knows). Been using that for the past year and it allows me to convince everyone to go there instead of a national chain. I’ve also been lucky with some manufacturers coupons for products I’m ordering straight from them, it’s more rare though so it’s hit or miss sometimes.
I just look up price trends and that’s pretty much it for me too. Coupons rarely ever worked for me in the early days of e-commerce so I quickly stopped bothering.
It’s also kind of a protection racket against shops. “Partner with us or we’ll cut into your profits by spreading cheap coupon codes, but partner with us and we’ll protect you”
I used Honey before thr PayPal purchase and it did have working discount codes, as well as a cashback thing that I redeemed a couple times. But I haven’t had any codes work for a long time.
I don’t have any love for influencers but they have the right to make money IMO, and it’s completely shitty behavior for honey to be taking that away from them.
See, I’m torn. I’ve never used honey, so I was never scammed. However I do think them scamming consumers is awful.
Buuuuuuuut, I DO enjoy the fact that they scammed influencers.
Yeah I thought that too until seeing the bits about consumers getting shafted. Awful company, hope they get sued into bankruptcy.
They are owned by PayPal, so that seems unlikely
Small content creator makes informative, honest review of a product. Honey gets money on the commission. This makes you happy?
Ltt didn’t hide shit, they posted it on a public forum
They didn’t hide it, but a huge portion of their audience doesn’t read the forums. A 10 minute video of Linus ranting about them would have opened this scandal to a wider audience years ago.
There may have been non-disclosure agreements between Linus tech tips and PayPal Honey. They may have threatened to sue him if he went public. I’m assuming we’ll find out the details in the next few weeks.
And then they took sponsorships from Karma which does the exact same thing
Linus usually likes to rant about it on the WAN show then they usually make a clip for YouTube, but weird he didn’t do that for honey, maybe he didn’t know how far the scam went.
Especially considering he hasn’t been shy about ranting about a lot of things from (insert latest apple thing) to “fucking eggshell”
Could have a non disparagement clause in their former agreement
non disparagement clause
Not the level of a non-compete clause but that’s a scummy thing I hope is not legal.
It’s fairly common. As far as legal, that will depend on the jurisdiction and the mood of the judge.
As creator that makes some of their profits from affiliate links, I don’t see how that could be the case for him.
Seems more likely they had a reason to avoid beef with PayPal.
Linus said it would be on this week’s WAN show
Yeah, that not nothing but it isn’t far off. They have a massive platform. It deserved at least a video telling people about it.
If only they had some medium to post the information, perhaps a medium that that VAST MAJORITY of their viewers use.
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Their complaint was that honey inserted their affiliate cookie even when they didn’t find a coupon code for you. I doubt they knew the full extent of the scam.
Plus, we don’t know what was in their contract with honey. They could still be subject to a non-disparagement clause.
GN doesn’t seem to have a problem holding their sponsors accountable, putting a story together, doing their due diligence, and then letting everybody know.
I knew this was Douglas Adams by the tone but had to look it up to realize it was Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Time for a re-read!
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT. I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on, I think their forum post was good and I believe they even mentioned this functionality of Honey a few times on the WAN show. It wasn’t a secret, and anyone who cared to do in-depth research on a potential sponsor could have found out.
[Added information: LTT say they were unaware Honey was mistreating users. So they had no reason to make a video at the time they dropped Honey for mistreating them.]
I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on
Their viewers getting scammed by tech they promoted isn’t worth a video on their main channel? If they could legally do it I think they should have.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT
LTT have made mistakes (edit: and made choices/comments I would disprove of) but the dunking here does seem disproportionate.
I’m definitely noticing a lot of hate warranted or not bjt it’s honestly also been hard to defend them after their last “scandal”. Once bitten twice shy…
Same reason I don’t try to give CD Projekt RED the benefit of the doubt anymore even though I loved Cyberpunk despite the messed up launch, and it seems they’ve largely redeemed themselves - I now realize where their priorities lie.
They could have been exposed to legal liability to report on a business partner like that.
And yet here’s the scandal being exposed TWO YEARS LATER. Yeah, LTT couldn’t possibly have handled this better… /s
They told everyone and nobody cared, turns out people care if a YouTube video is made framing the same thing differently. Like yeah, Honey’s practice is bad for the creator industry, but is it bad enough to bring it back to the people who took their money? No, I don’t think so.I think this is more of an example of how easy it is to get the masses angry with a YouTube video than anything. It’s good that more people are going to move away from this information harvesting app, but I really feel like the reaction and hatred is overblown and, at least for the hatred towards creators, unwarranted.
The way I see it, people still take money from predatory gambling sites, and if any creator deserves pushback, it’s them.
Literally just watched that. I agree with his consideration that that’s fraud.
This isn’t anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
That doesn’t include users being a victim? Honey gives users worse coupons when better ones are available, apparently that happens if companies do a deal with Honey.
Everybody: Fuck Peter Thiel, fuck Elon Musk, fuck Honey, Fuck PayPal
Everybody: unflinchingly using PayPal
Deleted my ebay account but very rarely will buy on the site. I’ve yet to find a UK alternative.
I dunno, I stopped a while back, it wasn’t hard really. I’ve also heard that while they are usually fine with regular sums of money they are not to be trusted with large sums. Just word of mouth an I’ve got no proof but it put me off.
There are some examples of buyers exploiting the returns policy for expensive items. The buyer initiates a return of item but never sends it, gets item and refund.
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered “yeah, but where do they get their money?” I always figured it was just a way to take people’s data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, let’s be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. It’s basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon product’s country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didn’t work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
It’s funny how Edge got lambasted for it when they introduced that feature, but it’s legitimately super helpful and non-invasive.
I had no idea it was, I don’t keep up with browser news. I just wish they didn’t migrate to Chromium. It became my main browser for a brief period before that.
I just used it randomly when I was working and doing some shopping for a computer in my downtime and decided to try out the feature. That and the AI are super good when combo’ed to shop smart. Managed to save $800 off a quality laptop.
There’s a good one for Amazon called Keepa that shows you the price history of the item. Helps a ton keeping prices in check during sales like Prime Day to see how much you are actually saving, if anything.
Also nice to see how much you could potentially save if you just wait for the next sale or if there was already a price decrease. Often times it looks like I’m good buying without waiting for any sale as the sales only knocked off a few dollars, at most.
Thank you for the recommendation, looks neat. Tracking prices of different conditions is a nice touch. I’ll have to scrutinize it further when I make my next online purchases and chuck it into Edge as I made that my dedicated shopping browser.
Triple Camel does this too
Nice! Thanks for the recommendation, I love having alternatives in case anything unexpectedly goes down.
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
Also pcpartpicker to track pc parts. Isthereanydeals for game prices.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
“Hey Honey, we’ll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off.”
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasn’t worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesn’t fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we can’t have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. There’s no place for ethics in that combination.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didn’t realize they were playing both sides. It’s fucked.
everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Enshittification correctly defined.
Honestly I thought all of this was common knowledge at this point, back when I used Honey (many years ago) I saw its affiliate code in the address bar and thought “huh, that’s how they make money”
I remember researching it a while ago when I was curious how they made money. If anything else, this just illustrated glee little research and care people have with their online information.
Linus Tech Tips really is scum. Yet more proof of that.
OP isn’t exactly giving you the full story there. I know for a fact I’ve seen a video on this. I remember thinking at the time “well duh”.
Same person that said ad blocking was the same as piracy.
edit: People downvoting me like I disagreed with him. Just saying how he looks at it. I think it’s a bit of a false dichotomy but they are definitely similar.
It…is? You’re copying digital content without paying for it. I use uBlock but I don’t pretend to have the moral high ground.
It’s… not? It’s protection against malware and profiling by shady companies.
It can be both things at the same time.
It is. Taking from a service without paying for it, and actively avoiding the service making money via advertising is basically the same as watching a film without paying for it.
Both ways, you consumed a service and the people providing it got nothing, but it cost them something to create and provide it.
Have you ever heard his full stance on the matter? Because he clearly stated that this is not a judgment against using it. Heck, he’s been open about having sailed the high seas himself and still doing so for media he physically owns.
It’s just that gaining access to media while circumventing the payment (ads in this case) is basically piracy. Which is fair.
Signed, A uBlock User
How much you want to bet he uses Ad block himself but it’s suddenly different when YOU do it on HIS content?
If I hacked a server to get content then I would be circumventing payment at it shouldn’t be up to me how it responds to requests, I don’t own it. Google trying to enforce playing adverts via software running on my property is an unjust overreach. The user choosing what displays on their own monitor is not “circumvention”, it’s claiming ownership over your computing. Google could choose to verify on their servers if I’ve paid (in normal currency) but instead their servers act like adverts are an optional donation.
I trust Linus is being sincere when he says “it’s not a judgement” but blocking ads is being compared to a criminal doing copyright infringement (illegal). The word used is one originally meaning for a person murdering others on boats (immoral), and it’s used because it’s pejorative. It’s unavoidably judgemental.
They are similar only if you presume there is an agreement of content in exchange for revenue from adverts. If you view the internet as a place for open collaboration, or oppose (internet) advertisement, then you wouldn’t presume that agreement and it looks very different.
It was a matter of time until the public found out about this. They couldn’t think in the long term, by not accepting a bit of backlash, exposing the scam they unknowingly participated in they only opened themselves up for more later.
They are not only evil, they are stupid too, which is worse.
At this point, anything these goons “influencers” try to sell me on is a scam, and I’ll avoid it at all costs. People do insane things for money. Just watched a coffeezilla video on the CSGO gambling scam and holy shit, people are straight up heartless and have no humanity in them.
I respect coffee but he said nice things about MrBeast who is known to hire pedophiles and sexual pests
Bro just released a video investigating Mr beast. Lol
