This is going to be fun watching over the next four years. LOL. You just gotta laugh.
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Give them as much raw milk as they want? They’ll find out
We could give you a cure, but we aren’t allowed to. Perhaps you could write to your congressman?
“fuck around and find out”
their favorite thing.
As I saw someone else say, “I love natural selection.”
You think jolly old Darwin will fix the US problem of conservatism?
Unfortunately, most of these people have already reproduced.
*Obsessed
If they want to drink raw milk and cough their lungs out; I am not going to stop them. The conservatives clearly wish to be left alone in their stupidity and lack of education, and we can’t force them to pursue knowledge.
I also suspect that the bird flu (H5N1) is not (as of yet, at the time this post was written…) likely to mutate to spread in a human-to-human context. It’s not impossible for it to do so though…but the mutation(s) have not yet reached a point where humans can pass it on to each other by breathing the same air; I would guess that a significant contact (Like breathing, eating or touching a very very very large amount of a bodily output that contains the virus) is likely needed to spread that virus; as that’s how it’s spread from animal to human so far. TL;DR: I could be wrong; but I don’t believe it’s capable of a pandemic yet. Science has not yet presented enough strong evidence that this is spreading from person to person. I welcome any citations to prove that wrong however. Thankfully I’m not conservative, and do welcome being shown that my suppositions are indeed wrong; as long as it’s done respectfully.
They’ve done it before, they’ll do it again. Just give it time and with abundance of idiots helping it along, soon the Maga bird flu will be the hot new COVID.
I also suspect that the bird flu (H5N1) is not (as of yet, at the time this post was written…) likely to mutate to spread in a human-to-human context.
If you are infected with multiple flu strains at the same time, the viruses can recombine and yield a new strain. That is substantially more chance to get a human-to-human transmissible H5N1 than just by mutation alone (which is still something that should not be underestimated - flu mutates like crazy). There is a reason why virologists warn about H5N1 as the likely candidate for the next pandemic.
Just because it can, does not mean it will. I’ve yet to see any hard evidence of probabilities either; but I welcome any evidence one might present to that effect. I am always skeptical of science news reporting; as oftentimes they blow things out of proportion.
Just because my house can burn down, doesn’t mean it will, so fire extinguishers and smoke detectors are just a waste of money.
Is the probability zero?
No?
Then if enough people get infected, it absolutely will.
This goes beyond “show you sources” to “you need classes in genetics, microbiology, organic evolution, and maybe statistics”. For what it’s worth, I’m an educated and experienced microbiologist with experience in public health. I’m not sure how to cite what’s effectively a semester of college education and four textbooks into one comment. I can explain the basics and you can verify details if you’d like. I am more than happy to answer questions and point you towards where you might find more information on specific topics but citations for all of this would be a huge endeavor.
There are two main reasons H5N1 isn’t human-to-human: specificity and, by its effect, low transmission. I’ll try to keep this super high level.
Regarding specificity, viruses don’t infect cells at random. Instead, there’s basically a “lock and key” effect where the virus attaches to an external component (receptor) of the soon-to-be infected cell, then it releases its genetic payload. Much like how it’s pretty easy to pick most locks, it doesn’t need to be a perfect match, just close enough to get the job done.
This is how you get some splash over between species, as there’s variation in both the virus and potential receptors due to mutation, and through random chance you might get a good enough match. The more exposure a virus has to potential receptors, the more likely it is that this will happen. If it happens, the particular mutation making this possible will be selected for in that individual or population, creating many more copies of a mutation that otherwise may have just died out. This is exactly what happens when a human gets infected with a zoonotic virus.
Next we have transmission. Not all cells in the human body have the same receptors, so viruses can infect different parts of the body. This is partly why people get “head colds” and “stomach bugs” - that’s the region with the most cells with the target receptor. H5N1 isn’t particularly good at infecting human airway cells, so infected humans are fairly well dead ends as this blocks airborne transmission, its primary mode of spread.
Currently, H5N1 is one point mutation, vastly the most common type of mutation, away from switching specificity to humans and infecting our airways. This is incredibly small and viruses churn out point mutations like crazy. Every time some dingus swills down raw milk, we’re rolling evolution’s random chance mutation dice. If just one virion has that single mutation and successfully infects that moron’s airway, it’s game on for a potential new pandemic. Evolution is just a numbers game and the more chances you give it, the more likely it is to happen.
What does your gut say on the likelihood of it jumping and, if so, when? What would the timeline look like for spread after the jump? Likely CFR?
Sorry to blast you with questions. My level of concern is rising.
It’s really hard to say - estimating with any certainly would be like estimating the likelihood of the lottery being won without knowing how many people are playing.
What makes it tricky is the mutation that changes to human specificity may change specificity away from cows/birds. In that case, if there’s no opportunity for it to infect any humans, it just stops there. This may have happened multiple times already.
I’d say it’s possible, incoming political idiots will make it more likely, and given how poorly they handled the last pandemic, it wouldn’t be unwise to make reasonable preparations in advance: respiratory protection, soap/sanitizer (it needn’t be antibiotic), maybe a bit of backup food and other daily supplies in case the shit hits the fan and supply chains get squirrely.
I used to make fun of preppers before COVID (and still think many of them are a bit too paranoid, you don’t need a buried shipping container full of weapons), but we now have full-face respirators and a few months of dried food supplies.
Sounds like your risk assessment is similar to ours on bird flu.
As for prepping, I think it comes down to being realistic about actual threats. I’m a lot more worried about Lyme disease and other tick carried disease than I am being bit by a water moccasin so I treat my clothing with permethrin. I’m a lot more worried about a house fire than a home invasion so I have CO and smoke detectors. Just added an emergency fire ladder to our second floor. Real life isn’t a Mad Max movie.
My girl keeps a well stocked pantry and deep freezers. She’s experienced food insecurity before, and she manages our food. We stock up on things we already eat when they go on sale. She’s read some alarming things about the coffee harvest this year so we now have a year supply of coffee. It will all get used and we are insulated from a big price hike.
Longer term, we hope to raise or hunt all our own meat. Our “prepping” isn’t really anything we wouldn’t do anyhow. We love venison, rabbit, and now have land to raise a couple of steers.
We have soaps and sanitizers. Keep a good supply on hand, super long shelf life.
With COVID, I got us all half face respirators. I spoke with my girl, I think I’m going to look at getting a couple of full face. Our house is old and has a lot of asbestos in the walls and shingles, so I use the respirator when cutting into a wall along with a HEPA shop vac. Also use my respirator when dealing with moldy hay or bad allergans. So, it’s not like I’m wasting money. Thanks for getting me thinking about it. P100 is great for peace of mind.
As far as guns and such, you can’t eat ammo or rifles. We have farm and hunting firearms. Thinking a bunch of weapons will be what makes a difference if things got really bad is foolish.
Mostly, we just try and pay attention and anticipate big price changes. We are slowly working towards having less dependance on supply chain disruption. True supply chain independence is a pipe dream and would be a brutal existence.
Yep, you and I are 100% on the same page.
We also have a bit of land and a full-face respirator is the best for working with anything dusty, spraying weeds, or even just burn piles. Smoke in my face? Zero fucks given now.
If I may, I recommend the Scott AV-3000. They’re a bit pricey but you can beat the hell out of them for years, can replace individual components, and they work with canisters, cartridges, SCBA, and supplied air, all of which use a bog-standard connector. If there’s any question on sizing, you’re probably a medium. 80+% of the adult population is medium, around 15% large, and less than 5% small. Large is barely larger, small is way smaller.
I may or may not have had a job related to respiratory protection for awhile. Science is fun!
If you ever have any questions, feel free to hit me up! Us friendly “reasonably prepared” types gotta stick together.
I went with 3M 6900 (Large) as it is what I have experience with and before I saw your message Amazon was low stock and MSC was really high. Most of my mask use has been in industrial process and only for short periods.
I will absolutely look into the Scott AV-3000. I only got a couple pair of the full face.
Will do. You have machinery and tooling questions lemme know.
The conservatives clearly wish to be left alone in their stupidity
No, no they do not. They feel compelled to force their stupidity on everyone. I guarantee you, there will be bills brought to the floor that require raw milk to be served at elementary schools.
there will be bills brought to the floor that require raw milk to be served at elementary schools.
So prove that is what they are doing. Otherwise your argument is just pure hyperbole. I get that conservatives are dangerously stupid; but don’t spread falsehoods; that’s how they get a turn at the stump to convince more people to join their stupid cause.
Hyperbole until it isn’t. We used to think supposition of settled law being overturned was outlandish. The world has changed and incontinent orange man is now talking about buying Greenland. Hyperbole until it isn’t.
Prove that there will be bills brought to the floor?
Are you aware of the concept of cause and effect? Or maybe you have a time machine or something?
I didn’t say they are doing it, I said they will. It’s a prediction of the future based on past behavior. Only time will tell if my prediction is correct.
H5N1 isn’t going to be the last virus. The next time they cough their lungs out, it could be contagious.
They complain so much even when they have exactly what they claim they wanted. They wanted raw milk, they got it. But somehow all the non-raw milk drinkers are “ruining” something for them? Weird.
Deep insecurity.
They see others doing the right thing & that makes them doubt their entire “purpose” or world view.
There might be one or two far leftists here. Seriously curious, does anyone here think drinking raw cow’s milk is a good idea? Why?
The alt right crowd are weird as shit. Nobody gave a fuck about “raw milk” until the last year or so.
I’ve seen signs for raw milk in the UK now. The local Facebook groups have tinfoil hat types who think there’s a giant conspiracy about Arla (huge milk wholesaler) milk not selling, and taking photos of milk in shops to “prove” it…
The world seems to be in a mental health crisis, and while I’m not suggesting reopening Bedlam lunatic asylum we should probably pay some attention to this. Social media has a lot to answer for
I work at a tailgate market in a left leaning area. There’s always one or two people who come looking for raw milk and I have to explain that the milk we sell is UV pasteurized instead of heat pasteurized, so the proteins are more intact. They’re never satisfied with that. They tend to have accents, so I assume they use to get raw milk in their country, but in their country, the milk isn’t being mixed from hundreds of cows, possible from completely different farms, so the rick of contamination is much lower where they’re from.
I tell them to find a farm and tell them you want to make cheese. It’s not my problem if they want to make themselves sick.
People who make cheese as a hobby have called for the ability to buy raw milk for years.
That said alot of people in the hobby also confuse pasteurization with homogenization. I can get cheese almost as good as raw milk by mixing pasturized skim and heavy cream together. Trying to use Homogenized milk results in a mess.
I think it was originally a “do we really need the government to mandate this” when they were appealing to the idea of like, a small family farm with people idyllically milking a single cow into a bucket. Then that idea morphed into an actual advocacy of drinking it when it got combined with the sort of “crunchy” “paleo” pseudoscience “health nut” movements.
I think the foothold thought was that pasteurization destroys more than just bacteria, and milk might be healthier and/or tastier without having been changed by that process. Of course taste is largely culturally acquired - example A being Germans and UHT milk - but lots of people fancy themselves taste-o-philes.
Then the mistrust of “them” kicked in, and if “they” said the risk of pathogenic bacteria far outweighed any marginal health benefit, the “truth” must be the opposite.
It’s easier too if you’re the one milking, with the exception that pasteurization also extends shelf life
Because our ancestors did it and they were strong Chads.
I grew up drinking raw milk because we were milking 50 head of cows every day. Why make a 50 mile round trip to buy something we 500 gallons of right there in the yard. No one died or even got sick from it. Is it better for you? I don’t know or care. It’s what we had and the price was right. And it’s VERY unlikely any of you would actually want to drink it. And this includes the magahats also. It tastes nothing like the stripped down and flash pasteurized milk you are used to.
That said, for the commercial milk you buy and drink, it’s an absolute must to pasteurize the milk. It’s going to take a week for that milk to get from the dairy to your refrigerator and you expect it last another week or two. And so food safety demands it.
In any case, it’s not illegal to drink raw milk. You just can’t sell it to other individuals. If you want raw milk all you need do is to simply get your own cow and milk it. Then you can drink it all you want.
“Louis Pasteur was a fascist in line with the new world order!” -Big D
I feel like it used to be a super far left thing but the spectrum is a horseshoe as I’m sure you know. I also think it comes a bit from the prepper community which tends to be “libertarian”
Tastes better. Probiotic, so can be healthier. Risk is very low of contamination, low enough that the mandate for pasteurized milk was kinda overblown, but technically safer.
I find the posturing the funniest. Conservatives trying to act tough by drinking raw milk is hilariously tame. It’s like being proud of not wearing sun screen when mowing the lawn. Like, that’s arguably fine either way, but sunscreen is a little safer but…why would you brag about that?
It’s attention seeking behavior. They blatantly break small rules with (usually) small risks to get a rise out of people. My 5-year-old does the same thing.
Need to kick things up a notch. What we really need is for scientists to start talking about how bad slitting your wrists is. That’s how you get attention.
Probiotic, so can be healthier
Objectively not true. Zero actual evidence to support that. Also probiotic in itself is not a real thing and the only scientifically probiotic thing is fiber, any fiber because unsurprisingly to care for your bacteria you… need to feed and protect them not introduce more fuckboy dudes coming in trying to fuck shit up lol.
Also probiotic in itself is not a real thing
Oh please do go and fuck off. I’ve had to spend a ridiculous portion of my life reading the research on probiotics, and how they work is not entirely understood, but it’s a far better established idea than “[introducing] more fuckboy dudes” into the targeted ecosystem.
Are they or is that just what the media wants us to believe? I hear the “left” is obsessed with all kinds of things too yet I never seem to encounter these people outside of social media.
There definitely are those people too. I noticed this a lot with home schooling. I live in a celery get leaning area and have been surprised at the number of home schoolers I run into.
One had what I consider a good reason - so netting happened at school and the kid was being bullied over it, so they kept him home for a couple years until they could get him in a different school.
But the rest are generally some variation of extremely well educated people thinking they can do better for their kids, let the kids use their imagination or dive very deeply into their interest. But they’re not teachers and not prepared to dedicate every weekday to covering all the same ground. All good intentions, all poorly done at their kids expense
We should have a weekly celebration where conservatives drink raw milk together. Just guzzle it all down you idiots.
As someone who stopped drinking raw milk as soon as I became aware of the bird flu issue they have whatever happens to them coming. They’re incredibly goddamn stupid.
I just like non homogenized milk, it’s hard to find pasteurized. Nothing worth dying over ffs.
Your user name is perfect for this comment.
Also binge drink alcohol & smoke all the cigarettes/put in all the dips (because anything that’s horrible for your health they love for some reason).
That will show everyone who chooses to smoke weed and exercise and eat vegetables.
That will get them good.
I hear it’s tastier with horse dewormer.
It’s because the gubmint told them they can’t have it and, like petulant children, they just wanna do what they’ve been told they shouldn’t.
This is exactly it for the vast majority of them. And there’s a minority that have been duped into believing there are legitimate benefits.
Wait till they outlaw/regulate eating unpasteurized cheese in the US…
Oh wait.
It’s not illegal to eat it. It’s illegal to sell it.
You know what? We should probably deny vaccinations, unions, and “love thy neighbor”… The world would be a better place
I grew up on a dairy farm and milked cows every day. We never bought “store” milk to drink. It always came from the tank every morning. We also made and ate foods that would cause you urbanites blanch and faint if you only knew, (I miss the home made blood sausage and canned beef my Grandmothers made). It’s not a death sentence like many of you seem to think. But, for commercial store bought milk, it IS imperative that the milk is pasteurized for consumer safety. That milk might be a week or two old before it reaches your refrigerator in the Big City/Suburbs/Gentrified neighborhood.
I doubt if drinking raw milk will become common place amongst magahats. It tastes NOTHING like what they or you are used to. It’s a whole different thing. And the vast majority of you would hate the taste of it and refuse to drink it. And the first time someone gets the shits from drinking it, they will try and sue the dairy they bought the milk from. And that won’t end well.
In Europe they seem to not have the same fear/issues with the sale or consumption of “raw dairy” that we do here in the US. Perhaps they are smarter about such things.
I think a lot of it is coming from the bird flu scare. If the milk is pasteurized the virus would be killed in the process. If it isn’t killed and gets transferred to a person it can be deadly. The chance of death varies drastically though. Worse than covid odds, but up to ridiculous levels if someone is pregnant.
Basically if a pregnant woman gets it from raw milk somehow, the chances of death for her and the baby are around 90%. So the lack of knowledge of if the spread amongst the cows is being stopped, is leading to the fear of it being dangerous to humans
“That woke dairy farm didn’t take all the pasture outta the milk before they put it in the cartons! Everyone’s getting sick because they’re not depasteurizing the milk enough!” - my qanon neighbour, probably
The cream from the top is the best.
They want to be more like Homelander
Ewwwwwwwwww
They richly deserve tuberculosis. Too bad it’ll also afflict innocent people.
I’ve noticed lately around me too that “conservatives” will pull out a cig and start smoking it (as a “defense” mode or something…or maybe because I have a mask) & it feels like it’s to take a side in some kind of “culture war”. Killing themselves to “own the libs”. Brilliant.
That’s also really weird because when I was growing up cigs and coffee, at the same time, was like an inner city liberal stereotype.
Antivax used to be a lefty granola thing too. The rules don’t make sense anymore.
That one was the wildest switch up
Darwin award 👍
Combined with H5N1… thy won’t be missed.
So is there a bird flu vaccine I can get yet or what?
You won’t. When Kennedy is in charge of “health”, vaccine promoters will probably be crucified.
No no no no. Just megadose on vitamin C and take since herbal remedies of questionable origin. You’ll be just fine. And if you’re not then we’ll just blame you for not living a healthy enough lifestyle.
Is now a good time to remember that the unregulated supplements market is a huge base of GOP funding?
Absolutely. And I will be enraged but not surprised when RFK has his departments offer them as treatments for bird flu.
Linus Pauling has entered the chat.
