Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Semi-obligatory thanks to @dgerard for starting this, and happy new year in advance.)
Is the brain just a computer By Iris van Rooij, a psychologist and cognitive scientist (and she is also a bit skeptical about the claims about AI). Might be an interesting read for the people here.
hoping for a 2025 with solidarity, aid, and good opsec for everyone who needs it the most
I find it impressive how gen-AI developed a technology that is fine-tuned to generate content that looks precisely passably plausible, but never good enough to be correct or interesting or beautiful or worthwhile in any way.
Like if I was trying to fill the Internet with noise to ruin it, on purpose, I couldn’t do better than this. (mostly on accounr of me not having massive data centres nor the moral calousness to spew that much carbon, but still). It’s like the ideal infohazard weapon if your goal is to worsen as many lives as you can
It was made to write copy for catalogs, alumni bulletins, and mediocre in-flight magazines.
It also is ‘great’ for creating post for people who want to debate others but who dont actually care to make up arguments themselves, quality of the argument doesnt even matter. Which is quite the shit development.
At least you can recognize real replies as there are words they never fucking use.
Comment sections on awful.systems are similar to this Drew Gooden sketch sometimes:
It’s just hard for me to give MY input when I don’t even know what’s going on
Once a month or so Awful Systems casually mentions a racist in some sub-sub-culture who I had never heard about before and then I get to spend an hour doing background research on obscure net drama from 2013 or whatever.
If you stick around and do a bunch of research you will end up better informed and much unhappier.
I’m making a mental note to keep that link around for the next time someone barges into one of our threads and does the “I don’t know what this is, here’s my reaction to what I thought the topic was, no I didn’t read the article or lurk” routine
as a bonus they might accidentally watch the rest of the video and finally figure out how much AI sucks
You know guys, it’s really hard for me to give MY input when you are so negative about all the terrible things I like. Next time you guys come CRAWLING to me for advice, try not hating me as a human being for everything my twisted value system represents.
“I don’t know what this is, here’s my reaction to what I thought the topic was, no I didn’t read the article or lurk”
bizarre that they actually just say this
Oh no I’m in this sketch and I don’t like it. Or at least, I would be. The secret is to acknowledge your lack of background knowledge or basic grounding in what you’re talking about and then blunder forward based on vibes and values, trusting that if you’re too far off base on the details you’ll piss off someone (sorry skillissuer) enough to correct you.
choose your silicon valley thinkboi
edit: goddammit istewart got in first because we both saw this on the zitron discord
alas, there is no honor or glory to be had from winning the meme race
ong Yann LeCun was sharing this post too and i was shook that he was seeing quality shit post like this before me. We are not ready for whats coming next . jpg
https://xcancel.com/altryne/status/1872090523420229780#m
The whole thread is terrible; controlling and borderline abusive behavior.
I feel personally attacked because I have a BELOVED dino plush that looks almost exactly like that one, only is, you know, a fucking plush toy not an eldritch horror. They took a perfectly fine toy and ruined it with a stupid chatbot, the girl did the smartest thing and just uses it as a normal plushy.
Also if you listen to the video at the end you can really easily figure out why kids don’t like that toy, IT’S FUCKING ANNOYING. Kids don’t want to deal with your bullshit and fortunately they don’t yet know how to pretend to care.
“In the meantime, would you like to play a game or maybe hear a fun fact?”
“No.”
“That’s okay! Is there something else you would like to do or talk about? I’m here to chat about anything you like!”It’s like a deliberately written comedy scene of a character who can’t pick up on social cues.
Teaching the girl how to deadpan ignore annoying guys in her DMs for the rest of her life, I mean, valuable skill
The video is hilarious. The idiot AI man is so gpt-pilled he cannot figure out that this thing is just bloody annoying!!
This guy’s gonna be on whatever remains of Twitter in like 20 years vague posting about the missing missing reasons his kid doesn’t talk to him anymore.
Found a couple QRTs cooking the guy which caught my attention:
https://twitter.com/denimneverdies/status/1872364569743786286
https://twitter.com/TheWapplehouse/status/1873915404529406462
as an amuse bouche for the horrors that will follow this year, please enjoy this lobste.rs reaching the melting down end stage after going full Karen at someone who agrees with a submitted post saying LLMs are a dead end when it comes to AI.
https://lobste.rs/s/lgqwje/does_current_ai_represent_dead_end#c_tefto4
Thankfully, accusing someone of being a crapto promoter is seen as an attack that is beyond the pale.
Highlights from the rest of the thread include bemoaning the lack of a downvote button for registering disapproval:
https://lobste.rs/s/lgqwje/does_current_ai_represent_dead_end#c_ft9mpj
unilaterally deciding to reply multiple times to one comment, neccesitating them to add a meta comment with hyperlinks
https://lobste.rs/s/lgqwje/does_current_ai_represent_dead_end#c_jjk5ei
And of course is a MoreWronger (moroner?)
Lol of course they think they are civil and other people as pushing nasty rethoric. Quite the sealion feeling.
Wonder if they even notice how much communication weirdness they themself used. With the emphasis of emotional laden language. (They didnt use bold so i cant call it crank capitalization, but more crank cursive. A big deal for me! ;) )
Anyway the questioning of “how do you know this is why there is no downvoting” shows the type of person they are. (And is quite the Rationalist annoying behavior, suddenly they demand excessive sourcing for small remarks of people they disagree with).
“Do you want to refine your claim?”
one day i’ll finally catch a lobste permaban thanks to your links :-)
enjoy your flags from outraged simps
:-)
If you go over to LessWrong, you can get some ideas of what is possible
I just got a hit of esprit d’escalier, and wished I’d replied to this
But the road to Hackers News is paved with good intentions.
with
So too is the road to Roko’s Basilisk.
I’m increasingly convinced that this person is in a dark place mentally, and am fighting an internal battle to keep poking them for the lulz or just ignoring them.
https://lobste.rs/s/lgqwje/does_current_ai_represent_dead_end#c_cyrxm4
(I’ve seen this behavior on lobste.rs before and I think sometimes people literally get banned for their own good)
Edit bored on a train so I did the math, in the comment thread, this user has made 30% of the comments by count and 20% by “volume” (basically number of bytes in the plaintext).
Edit bored on a train so I did the math, in the comment thread, this user has made 30% of the comments by count and 20% by “volume” (basically number of bytes in the plaintext).
tha’s a lotta posting
Adderall will do that to a fellow
LLMs continue to be so good and wagmi that they’ve progressed to the serving ads part of the extractivist SaaS lifecycle
via this I just learned that google’s about[0] to open the taps on fingerprinting allowance for advertisers
that’ll go well.
I realize that a lot of people in the rtb space already spend an utterly obscene amount of effort and resources to try do this shit in the first place, but jesus, this isn’t even pretending. guess their projections for ad revenue must be looking real scary!
edit [0] - “about”, as in next month. and they announced it last month.
The Google post appears to be Updating our platform policies to reflect innovations in the ads ecosystem.
I have no idea what the heck those words mean (it appears to be some bizarro form of English), so I diffed the policy itself. Here are the parts I found notable.
This will be removed:
You must not use device fingerprints or locally shared objects (e.g., Flash cookies, Browser Helper Objects, HTML5 local storage) other than HTTP cookies, or user-resettable mobile device identifiers designed for use in advertising, in connection with Google’s platform products. This does not limit the use of IP address for the detection of fraud.
This will be removed:
You must not pass any information to Google […] that permanently identifies a particular device (such as a mobile phone’s unique device identifier if such an identifier cannot be reset).
This will be added:
You must disclose clearly any data collection, sharing and usage that takes place in connection with your use of Google products, including information about the technologies used, such as your use of cookies, web beacons, IP addresses, or other identifiers. This applies for data collection, sharing and usage on any platform, surface or property (e.g., web, app, Connected TV, gaming console or email publication).
you just gotta love how vacuously pointless the wording is
You must disclose
google-rfc “must”: “we want something we can bend you over a barrel with if you’re caught out by one, but that’s all we’ll bother committing because otherwise it eats into our lovely extortion profits”
Also I’m having a fun time imagining an accurate device fingerprinting disclosure from someone who was really really thorough.
Not-A-Cookie-I-Swear Technologies LTD may collect the following information:
Don't worry none of it is a cookie :D
- Your User-Agent
- Your browsers language / locale
- The state of the service-worker associated with Not-A-Cookie-I-Swear Technologies LTD’s website
- Whether your “mouse” movements look more like a mouse, trackpoint, gamepad, joystick or touchscreen according to our heuristics
- The current JavaScript time
- Whether your browser prefers dark mode or not
- Whether your browser reports itself as screen or print media
- The device size, device pixel ratio, frame size, and frame position reported by your browser
- Your browser’s HTTP request headers
- The success or failure of fetching a URL included in the Easylist ad-block list
- Whether or not an element associated with the Easylist element hiding list was hidden or not
- Your IP address
- The result of tracerouting your IP address from one of our servers
- Browser Local and/or Session Storage
- The state of the WebSQL and/or IndexedDB database for our website
- The state of the OPFS filesystem store associated with our website
- Whether or not there was an HTTP cache hit for our website
- Whether or not there was a DNS entry cached for our website
- A hash of the pixels in a WebGL and/or WebGPU scene
- The browser’s default styling
- The browser’s minimum font size
- The browser’s default font family
- The font file chosen for a variety of character (or ligature) and font-family combinations
- A hash of the pixels of a canvas with a variety of font families and shapes written into it
- A report on the presence or absence of various browser CVEs in your browser
- Information about any other open tabs that happen to include technologies from Not-A-Cookie-I-Swear Technologies LTD
- What video, audio, and/or image codecs are supported by your browser
- Whether or not your browser enables video auto play (and whether or not it’s muted by default)
- Whether your browser supports MathGL or not
- Whether your browser recognizes any origin trials that Not-A-Cookie-I-Swear Technologies LTD happens to have opted into at any given time
- The behavior of your browser against various web standards edge cases or the presence or absense of features in draft web standards (e.g. Web Platform Tests or Can-I-Use tests)
- Whether or not your browser supports Widevine video DRM
- Various browser performance characteristics
- All key press events
- Various form auto-fill data (if triggered)
- Any mouse down, mouse move, or mouse up events
- A rough geolocation calculated by examining the relative latency of fetches to a number of geographically distributed web servers
- The presence or absence of various browser plugins developed by, purchased by, or affilated with Not-A-Cookie-I-Swear Technlogies LTD (and any data therein as agreed to by the extension permissions dialog – up to and including microphone, webcam, or full page DOM)
Some stuff in this list is me being silly, but overall it shows that the talk about “privacy-enhancing technologies” is premature on the web platform. The web has been trying to have better privacy defaults over time; but there’s a long legacy of features from before this was considered as much, as well as Google tossing around their weight in the web standards and browser space.
now i wonder how much of that is blocked by firefox enhanced tracking protection. not all, of course, and it’s probably much more than needed for unique identifier. there’s mozilla security blog post on this topic says that some anti-fingerprinting measures were built in all the way back in 2020 (firefox 72)
Above I listed a bunch of things which would help narrow down browser version, but that’s hopeless anyway – an adversary will probably be able to figure out your rough browser version even if you fake the UA string, and that you’re running in anti-fingerprinting mode.
So assuming that’s out of scope I think these are probably the big categories:
- Normalize any system information presented to webpage (e.g. remove minor version from UA header, remove OS from UA header, etc)
- Canvas, WebGL, and WebGPU need to be implemented in software in a deterministic way. Similarly any compositing (including stuff like font shaping, SVG rendering, page layout) must be done in software (prevent GPU fingerprinting)
- A fixed font set must be used rather than using the system font set (prevent fingerprinting font enthusiasts)
- The device size / frame size (and position) must be lied about (e.g. rounded to a common resolution or a multiple of 100px), and layout adjusted appropriately (Mozilla calls this “Letterboxing”) (prevent fingerprinting psychos who don’t run their browser in fullscreen mode).
- Page storage should be disabled or cleared (local / session storage, cookies, service workers, indexeddb, etc) (A cookie by any other name would taste as sweet)
- Caching is a big problem, probably have to disable it entirely (including HTTP caching, HTTP caching at the ISP level*, DNS lookups, favicons, JavaScript compilation cache) (Pesky pesky global state).
- Performance metrics are another big problem. Disabling JavaScript would go a long way here but you probably can’t prevent them entirely unless you’re prepared to go to unhealthy extremes** (this is like the past 10 years of cutting edge security research so we’re doomed)
- Disable any plugins or other customizations which may provide a fingerprint accessible to the webpage (oops it turned out the FBI caught me because I configured my browser to inject pictures of cute bunnies into every webpage).
- And of course IP address, which you presumably want to do something about (proxy?)
That said while I’ve worked with browsers, I’m not in the biz of fingerprinting or anti-fingerprinting, so there’s surely stuff I haven’t thought of.
* Actually we should probably just disable non-HTTPS entirely…
** Running under a VM is probably the minimum required to mitigate the chances of cutting-edge side-channel timing attacks from James Bond level adversaries, but at that point maybe you just want a dedicated browsing computer heh. I did chuckle at the idea of someone trying to apply cryptographic constant-time algorithm techniques to writing a browser though.
I remember during my very very first job a security guy explaining to me why I can’t record work emails of people borrowing stuff from the company’s internal library because GDPR. In a company of like 100 people. I guess Google is too big to care.
It’s the same feeling as when it’s reported some guy was able to defraud literal millions from public funds while I had to separately report and bring a receipt for the $5 I spent on a city bus while out on a business trip because it was funded from a public grant or I’d get fired and sued, in that order.
from the company’s internal library because GDPR
I’m not a gdpr person (nor even european) but this sounds like bullshit - was it?
I simplified , but:
The problem is that if someone leaves the company you should delete all of their PII you don’t need for compliance reasons. The emails were [email protected], as is usual, so it was PII. So if someone borrowed something from the library and that record stayed in the database, when their company profile got deactivated we would’ve had to have a flow that deleted that row or at least anonymised it. Needless to say, this was a minor side project with a time budget of one month, so we just ended up not storing any PII in the first place instead of bothering with archiving and removal.
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Nobody outside the company has been able to confirm whether the impressive benchmark performance of OpenAI’s o3 model represents a significant leap in actual utility or just a significant gap in the value of those benchmarks. However, they have released information showing that the most ostensibly-powerful model costs orders of magnitude more. The lede is in that first graph, which shows that for whatever performance gain o3 costs over ~$10 per request with the headline-grabbing version costing ~$1500 per request.
I hope they’ve been able to identify a market willing to pay out the ass for performance that, even if it somehow isn’t over hyped, is roughly equivalent to an average college graduate.
I’m wondering about the benchmark too. It’s way above my level to figure out how it can be gamed. But, buried in the article:
Moreover, ARC-AGI-1 is now saturating – besides o3’s new score, the fact is that a large ensemble of low-compute Kaggle solutions can now score 81% on the private eval.
The most expensive o3 version achieved 87.5%
if all of that $1500 cost is electricity, and at arbitrarily chosen but probably high electricity price of $0.2/kWh, that’s 7.5MWh per request. could be easily twice that. this is approx how much electricity four 4-person households consume in a year in poland. or about half of american one. six tons of TNT equivalent, or almost 2/3 ton of oil equivalent if you prefer
Actually wait I’m pretty sure it’s even worse because I’m terrible at reading logarithmic scales. It’s roughly halfway between $1,000 and $10,000 on their log scale, which if I do the math while actually awake works out closer to $3,000.
a reply from a mastodon thread about an instance of AI crankery:
Claude has a response for ya. “You’re oversimplifying. While language models do use probabilistic token selection, reducing them to “fancy RNGs” is like calling a brain “just electrical signals.” The learned probability distributions capture complex semantic relationships and patterns from human knowledge. That said, your skepticism about AI hype is fair - there are plenty of overinflated claims worth challenging.” Not bad for a bucket of bolts ‘rando number generator’, eh?
maybe I’m late to this realization because it’s a very stupid thing to do, but a lot of the promptfondlers who come here regurgitating this exact marketing fluff and swearing they know exactly how LLMs work when they obviously don’t really are just asking the fucking LLMs, aren’t they?
Right, well God says:
meditated exude faithful estimate nature message glittering indiana intelligences dedicate deception ruinous asleep sensitive plentiful thinks justification subjoinedst rapture wealthy frenzied release trusting apostles judge access disguising billows deliver range
Not bad for the almighty creator ‘rando number generator’, eh?
a non-zero amount of the time, yeah
also, that poster’s profile, holy fuck. even just the About is a trip
Wow, how is every post somehow weird and offputting? And lol at ‘im seeing evidence the voting public was HACKED! (emph mine)’ a few moments later ‘anybody know some big 5 webscrape API coders? I need them for evidence gathering’. The delightful pattern of crankery where there is a big sweeping new idea that nobody else has seen, plus no actual ability in a technical field.
Wow, how is every post somehow weird and offputting?
just an ordinary mastodon poster, doing the utterly ordinary thing of fedposting in every thread started by a popular leftist account, calling “their wing” a bunch of cowards for not talking in public about doing acts of stochastic violence, and pondering why they don’t have more followers
Not bad for a bucket of bolts ‘rando number generator’, eh?
Because… because it generated plausibly looking sentence? Do… do you think the “just electrical signals” bit is clever or creative?
Here’s an LLM performance test that I call the Elon Test: does the sentence plausibly look like it could’ve been said by Elon Musk? Yes? Then your thing is stupid and a failure.
That test doesn’t totally work as Elon does often say fuck.
That first post. They are using llms to create quantum resistant crypto systems? Eyelid twitch
E: also, as I think cryptography is the only part of CS which really attracts cranks, this made me realize how much worse science crankery is going to get due to LLMs.
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there’s unfortunately a lot of cranks around lambda calculus and computability (specifically check out the Wikipedia article on hypercomputation and start chasing links; you’re guaranteed to find at least one aggressive crank editing their favorite grift into the less watched corners of the wiki), and a lot of them have TESCREAL roots or some ties to that belief cluster or to technofascism, because it’s much easier to form a computer death cult when your idea of computation is utterly fucked
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As self and khalid_salad said, there are certainly other branches of CS that attract cranks. I’m not much of a computer scientist myself but even I have seen some 🤔-ass claims about compilers, computational complexity, syntactic validity of the entire C programming language (?), and divine approval or lack thereof of particular operating systems and even the sorting algorithms used in their schedulers!
I thought those non crypto cranks were relatively rare, which is why I added the “really” part. There has been only one templeos after all. And cryptography (crypto too but that is more financial cranks) has that 'this will ve revolutionary feeling which cranks seem to love, while also feeling accessable (compared to complexity theory, which you usually only know about if you know some cs already). I didn’t mean there are no cranks/weird ass claims about the whole field, but Id think that cryptography attracts the lions share. The lambda calculus bit down thread might prove me wrong however.
I know what you mean. I think the main genre of CS cranks is people trying way too hard to prove something they’ve gotten way too attached to and cryptography (and its more or less obviously stupid applications) and functional programming (proven to be no more or less powerful than procedural, but sometimes more or less fun) seem to attract a particularly high share of cranks. Almost certainly other fields too.
I still need to finish that FPGA Krivine machine because it’s still living rent-free in my head and will do so until it’s finally evaluating expressions, but boy howdy fuck am I not looking forward to the cranks finding it
write a series of blog posts about it, all of which end “And in conclusion, punch a Nazi.”
also sprinkle it at the start, and throughout
because you just know the tiring fuckers won’t bother reading in depth
A “high-tech” grifter car that only endangers its own inhabitants, a Trump and Musk fan showing his devotion by blowing himself up alongside symbols of both, the failure of this trained and experienced murderer to think through the actual material function of his weaponry, welcome to the Years of Lead Paint.
from I Was Promised a More Aesthetically Pleasing Cyberpunk Dystopia by Vicky Osterweil
Wow, that’s bleak. The whole article I mean.
“A new report showed that Trump’s win was extremely narrow except in ‘News deserts’, places where there is no local reporting or information, where he won by upwards of fifty points”
Apparently the repubs always do good there or something, i saw somebody complain that the news desert stuff claims there is a much stronger casual link between news desert and trump won than there actually is.
“if you chat with it about its designers”
I hope the people here at least realize how bullshit this is right? The ai doesnt know who designed it. It isnt a child talking about how their parents looked.
To be fair it also endangers people outside the car, just not when a deflagration is set off inside.
