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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/24230552
Just capitalism doing its thing
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This is seriously fucked up, but I don’t get the capitalism part of it?
They are proposing a human body factory for producing wage slaves.
they are proposing a human body factory for producing humans. you’re the one calling them wage slaves. it’s some gruesome Frankenstein shit but has nothing to do with C word
Why do they need more humans? For workers obviously.
You know what happens when workers become scarce? They are no longer expendable, which means each person has more employment power. This happened after the black death. So many peasants died that the power dynamic shifted and they were free to choose their employers.
They are heavily invested in keeping the population up.
WHO IS “THEY”?! this is the way paranoid delusions sound! you are so quick to find an answer that you don’t even consider the entire question
They aren’t keeping brain dead women as incubators for free.
How many viable children could a vegetable human create before the body just turns into meat slag? (Serious question)
Fuck off, venture capitalist!
/s
I have no idea. Women churned them out in ye olden days, so probably a lot.
The amount of babies isn’t the issue America, it’s the fact that we can’t afford them.
Okay, but imagine if you could have one really rich guy impregnate a thousand captive comatose women at once, to improve efficiency.
From a Lomgtermist perspective, this would be great for the future of our Brave New World
What I really hate about longtermism is that it actually tells us nothing about what policies are best, as we don’t know what paths will lead to the best future.
You could argue that low taxes on billionaires will give them the resources needed to do space colonisation. Thus, in the long term, not taxing billionaires now is good. Or you could argue that a robust social safety net and UBI is the best path to a long term best future. How many Einsteins throughout history died illiterate peasants? By providing resources for everyone, we maximize our chances of the truly talented having a shot at elevating us all through new science and discoveries.
Hell, I could even justify a nuclear war through longtermism. Economies grow more worn-in and sclerotic over time. Every so often you need a historical arsonist like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan to run through an area, burn the existing order to ashes, and give people a chance to start again. Existing elites prevent necessary change. And often the only way to remove them is to burn everything down. On the next attempt at civilization, they can learn from their predecessor’s mistakes. For example, destroying the fossil fuel industry now is effectively impossible; they’re simply far too entrenched and powerful. By voluntarily starting a global thermonuclear war, we will smash their power. Civilization can then rebuild powered entirely by solar and wind. Yes, we lose 90% of the human population today, but we prevent total human extinction via complete biosphere collapse, which appears to be the road we are on now. From the long term perspective, deliberately starting a global thermonuclear war is the only rational choice.
Climate Change is good for humanity because killing off the bulk of life on earth will give us a fresh slate to build on.
~ Op-Ed at the Atlantic or WSJ or some other smug contrarian navel gazers warehouse
And that the government won’t do shit-all to help them. A baby born to a corpse is not going to have a good life in America.
I just threw up in my mouth a little when you pointed that out. Yes the article says that too, but this accurate re-wording kinda really makes it “click”
What if they are a rich corpse?
What if they are a rich corpse?
Edit: Replied in wrong place.
I know forced sterilization is bad, but people that come up with opinions this psychotic…should not be allowed to procreate.
Nominate them for the Darwin Award
I say sex work to help pay for health care.
Suggest like 2 of the most evil doctors you could find so that, actually, YOU could suggest it, The Telegraph
Death Stranding spoiler
So we’re really gonna try bridge babies, huh?
What does this have to do with capitalism? Did we just switch from “everything bad is communism” to “everything bad is capitalism”?
IMO
We don’t need more people in the world right now. We should be concentrating on figuring out how to agree on having and applying the best support for the ones we already have first.
You’ll be glad to know that populations around the world, particularly in energy-intensive nations, are starting to decline. Some, like the US, are propping this up with immigration (for now) but places like South Korea, Japan, and a lot of Europe have been below replacement for some time.
And to a lot of people this would be a good thing. Fewer people means less impact on the planet and more to go around for everyone. But a lot of our systems are predicated on eternal population growth. For example, a lot of countries have pension systems that require there to always be more young people paying into it than there is old people taking payment.
Then you have the problem of who does the jobs that these retired people rely on. If there are fewer young people to do all the jobs in society, how will the non-working elderly buy groceries or get medical care or have packages delivered or clothes to wear? Automation can solve some of this but not all of it, plus who’s going to develop and build the robots?
It’s going to be a very drastic change in how societies are organized, especially combined with how the Internet and climate change are going to affect society. Hopefully we’ll come out the other side a little smarter.
Goddamn ancient Chinese curse, stupid interesting times…
Good news boys, if we’re willing to use women this way, we can actually do the same for men! This is one unique sexual reproduction horror story that can in theory be inflicted on both sexes!
Pregnancy without a uterus, impossible! You say. But ectopic pregnancies are a thing. We all start out as parasites. As an embryo develops, it looks for a surface of flesh rich in blood vessels to latch onto. The primary function of the uterus is to provide an inner lining that is sort of a “disposable surface.” The inner lining is rich in blood vessels, the ideal environment for a zygote to latch onto and grow from. The embryo can integrate its blood vessels with the uterine lining and thoroughly mess those up. Then after pregnancy the whole inner lining is just sloughed off. That in inelegant terms is the uterus - an organ that produces a nice safe surface for the zygote to latch onto that won’t harm the person carrying the pregnancy.
But, things don’t always go well. If a zygote somehow tears through the uterine wall, then ectopic pregnancy, pregnancy outside the uterus, can result. And this a serious life-threatening medical condition. The fetus as it develops will latch onto not the intended uterine surface, but the vital abdominal organs. Giving “birth” in this case is done surgically, and it’s more akin to cutting out a cancer than a healthy live birth.
But while it hasn’t been tried due to the obvious health risks and huge medical ethics issues, there’s little reason to think that ectopic pregnancies couldn’t be carried in a male admomen. DNA and chromosomes shouldn’t be a barrier. The placenta that the fetus grows is evolved to prevent the fetus from being rejected like a donor organ. It’s not like mothers and infants share their DNA.
So in theory we could use men in vegetative states as one-time use surrogates. There has been research proposed and papers written on the possibility of trans women carrying children via uterine transplant, but this method, deliberate artificial ectopic pregnancy, is in principle a lot simpler. You don’t need to transplant a delicate organ and find a way to carry a pregnancy while taking anti-rejection drugs. You just implant an embryo in the surrogate abdomen and let it go to town. Let it latch in to whatever internal organs it wants. Then after nine months, just cut open and discard the surrogate father.
It wouldn’t be as simple as just implanting an embryo. The pregnant vegetative man would likely need to have his hormone profile monitored and heavily manipulated. But this is easy enough. Testosterone production could be nuked by simple castration, and erogenous estrogen and progesterone could then be introduced as needed before and during the pregnancy. After the pregnancy, it is unlikely the man would survive. So this is a one time deal. But if we’re OK treating people in persistent vegetative states like resources to be exploited, I see no reason to throw out half of our potential surrogate population simply because they happen to be men.
I hope this doesn’t awaken anything in me…
Tap for spoiler
It most certainly did.
No, you don’t understand, people’s lives can only be thrown away in accordance with tradition. Men die in wars, women are exploited for children. You can’t cross the beams, frogs will turn gay!
You will get this passed as soon as we have a gender neutral draft and 50-50% wartime casualties between genders.
The fact that anyone would need this amount of mental gymnastics to find reason enough to relate to the women potentially being targeted, to be against it, is pretty fucked up in its own right.
A large part of how patriarchy works is that men aren’t expected to, so often don’t, give a shit about the harm it causes until something impacts them directly, and even then, they will only actively oppose it if it harms them significantly more than what the patriarchy benefits them (toxic masculinity being a prime example of self harm many men are reluctant to fight).
Catering to this feature of the system only perpetuates it. Stop creating convoluted ways for them to relate (even “your mothers and sisters” shouldn’t be needed), and start expecting, and demanding, they simply consider and therefor treat all humans equally (which magically leads to caring about what happens to women just as much as they would if it were men under threat).
I don’t know, I think OP is making A Modest Proposal
With all due respect, you seem to be actively seeking to be offended. This comes down to bodily autonomy. And providing an example of how this effects everyone is not some monstrous thing perpetuating the patriarchy. I think you’re a little too deep in the gender theory here.
I’m a trans person. I have had to fight for bodily autonomy my entire life. The fight for bodily autonomy is what ultimately connects trans rights with what are traditionally labeled “women’s issues.” Ultimate the right to abortion or contraception is about the right of everyone to bodily autonomy. To have final ownership and control of your own flesh and blood effects women’s reproductive rights, trans rights, the right to die, organ donation, etc. This goes way beyond just traditional women’s issues.
And honestly, the scenario isn’t convoluted or absurd. If the government did ever allow this kind of surrogacy, there would be no need to confine it to just one sex. Hell, I would be actively petitioning to apply it to everyone regardless of sex. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, and I AM that pettty. I would absolutely demand that atrocities be applied equally. And if we’re doing this, we’re probably also doing involuntary organ donation. So again it all comes back to bodily autonomy.
What is horrifying about this proposal is not that it would be done to women. What is horrifying about it is that it would be done to human beings. And I don’t feel the need to throw up artificial barriers and get offended that someone would dare to point out the broader implications of this beyond narrowly defined and ghettoized “women’s issues.”
Basically face hugger reproduction from the Alien franchise?
Essentially yes. Again, we all start as parasites. A uterus primarily is just a way for pregnancy to be survivable. But in theory it is perfectly doable in males.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_pregnancy#Ectopic_implant
As that article notes, pioneers in reproductive healthcare have even commented that it would likely be possible. We just don’t do it because it’s medically unconscionable to deliberately create an ectopic pregnancy. It goes against the whole, “and first, do no harm” principle. But if we’re throwing ethics to the wind and involuntarily impregnating people we consider already dead anyway, why not do the same to males?
This should be a horror movie plot
They did a comedy with Arnold and Danny devito called JR
That horror movie would make any HP Lovecraft stuff look like a children’s book.
Yeah, that’s the kind of persistent vegetative state you don’t want to wake up from.
But really this kind of abuse of people in these states goes way beyond pregnancy. If we’re willing to do this to women, why not keep vegetative patients of both sexes alive for years as continuous blood donors? I could easily see someone justifying that, especially if the victim has a rare or that universal donor blood type.
Or how about organ donation? We do currently take organs from deceased donors, but usually it’s a one time deal. When it comes time, if the person is a willing donor, you pull the plug, and then harvest whatever organs you can that you have a recipient for at the moment. But you could make that a lot more efficient if you could keep the donor alive for a long time, perhaps years. Just keep them alive, waiting for someone in need. Someone needs the first kidney? Give it to them. Someone needs a second kidney? Give it to them and put the donor on permanent dialysis. Someone needs a hear or lung? Take the donor’s and keep them going via artificial means. Or maybe we could take skin graft after skin graft, growing new skin again and again. Treat them like sheep being shorn. It’s the difference between having to use a butchered animal up all at once vs being able to freeze most of it for later. Hospitals could have whole wards of these donors caught for years in a state of half-disassembled living death.
This is an ethical Pandora’s box we REALLY do not want to open.
I’m cool with anencephalic humans/clones, with or without genetic engineering to reduce rejection, being used for spare parts.
Have you read House of the Scorpion?
I have not. Looks like it’s YA, which I tend to steer away from. Is it full of tropes and oversimplification like Divergent or Mockingjay stuff, or is it better than that?
I mean its alright it just covers this topic exactly while also not showing it integrated into society at large too well.
deleted by creator
I mean, sure. I have no problem with people signing up for this thing voluntarily. But it should never be something you can be opted into by default, like organ donation in some locales.
deleted by creator
Sure. So am I. Opt-in posthumous gestation? Not so much.
One of the benefits of living and working in a liberal society is that stuff like this can get publicly published, discussed and rejected if deemed bad. Under totalitarian regimes that public forum is absent, which is why some of the worst ideas/atrocities of the Soviet Union only came to light years after they had happened (instead of being rejected before they could happen). When it comes to human rights, liberalism > communism, and it’s not even close.
real, theoretical communism is not a totalitarian regime. keep these ideas separate so we can find a path forward
The spice must flow. The Tlielaxu will have their Axolotl Tanks.
there are far too many fucked up hentai plots that have the same lines
either way dude needs the nsa as his isp for a good bit
that paper has GOT to be a thinly veiled gruesome fetish manuscript, involving at least a couple corpses.
Welcome to the Wisconsin State semen/fertility donation center! We have dressing rooms on the left and on the right we have rooms with permanent donors! Like in restrooms you’ll see rooms for men where we’ll have our braindead “moms” set up to your penis precise height. If its for women, you’ll find our braindead “husbands” layer out in reachable love seats. Please ignore the fluffers, they are all volunteers who’s job is to ensure the highest quality erections.
We have lay away if you find a suitable partner but need more time. And no, we don’t rent out the mothers and you cannot take them home for birth day. It all happens here, our staff is the best…
There is no way in hell they’d have an option for women to rape men for their sperm. No fucking way. Women getting their rocks off is against sky daddy’s wishes.
Dear sky daddy, Please make 2025 2029.
Axlotl tanks?
The more I learn about the Frank Herbert novels, the more I realize how prescient and relevant they are to this day.
