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There are some issues with the way they’ve implemented congestion pricing, in my infrequently-visits-NYC mind, but this complaint is outside of them.
Isn’t the point of the congestion fee to relieve congestion? Each person that says “this fee is stupid & I’m not paying” is one less vehicle in the area.
Sounds like a win.
That is indeed the goal, but there is still a PR battle to be had on the issue.
To my knowledge this is the first time that congestion pricing has been implemented in North-America, and how people react to this will decide whether other North-American cities are willing to take the risk and do the same thing. Over the next couple of months there will likely be a lot of opinion pieces and articles that try to make you think that the congestion pricing is a failure and should be reversed.
Edit: typo
I hope they don’t react the same way they did when roundabouts (rotaries/traffic circles) were introduced. Another thing that is only a problem in America and works well in many other countries.
Runabouts can be very awesome, but can anyone explain to me what the hell is going on in the UK where (in some places) they’ve added a bunch of traffic lights to their roundabouts? In my (admittedly limited) experience, they make them substantially worse, but perhaps I’m missing something?
From my understanding there are two main beneftis:
- Capacity
- Safety
Roundabouts work great, until the amount of traffic becomes to big. Then it actually starts causing problems.
At that point you can put in a regular intersection with traffic lights, which actually works better than a roundabout does in high traffic environments. But you do lose out on the traffic safety benefits, with head-on collisions becoming possible again.A roundabout with traffic lights increases the capacity of the intersection while still reducing the risk of deadly accidents.
It’s also a lot cheaper than upgrading to the next step, which is building an interchange.Signalised roundabouts are also quite prevalent in the Netherlands, and I can speak from experience that they generally work quite well if the lights are adjusted properly.
Note: I’m just some random guy, I’m by no means an expert on the matter.
This is just my understanding of the benefits of lighted roundabouts.
Congestion fees are a very capitalist way of solving it. This law basically exists for everyone except rich people (i,e. Those who can afford to pay fees).
All this is based on a false assumption that money has an objective value. But in reality, 1$ means different things for different classes.
Yes but the money goes 100% to public transit so it benefits the lower income public transport commuters too.
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Since when cops are public transport?
Since… I dunno but it seems all transit systems have dedicated cops in the US.
Ah, you’re new! Hello! Ga ga goo goo! Goo Goo ga ga!
There are transit cops, cops who are on the payroll of a transit system. There are also politicians who lie about where money goes, so they say “we’re investing 100% in MTA to make the system safer for you and your family” and they mean they are giving money to NYPD with some requirement they have 1 more cop at a transit terminal. As another fine example, check out states where lottery funds go to “public schools”.
I don’t understand the need to belittle anyone that lacks information or is ignorant. Were you born with all the information you have right now?
What’s that xkcd?
No, in fact I quite literally in my message acknowledged they were new and didn’t have that information. Like, the thing you’re asking is actually in my message. Sure, there’s also some belittling for flavor, but life is boring if you don’t insult people on the internet.
Sounds like you just lead a boring life if you rely on insulting strangers on the Internet for some spice.
I am new with the us system. I dont live there you see. I believe we separate cops and public transport in my country.
In NYC in particular though, I have a feeling that very few low income people drive into Manhatten instead of taking transit.
According to Wikipedia “Low-income residents receive a 50 percent discount on daytime tolls after their first ten trips into the congestion zone in a calendar month”. So to some extent the system does take your concern into account.
Well it pretends to but no system like that will equalise it.
Do the same as we do with fines, based on income.
So that the congestion charge for a billionaire is also actually significant. Enough for then to reconsider using a car.
Billionaires using cars aren’t the ones causing congestion though, there just aren’t enough of them
No, but it’s tied to your income, so it doesn’t matter what you make. Poor people should have it practically for free (but still for a small nominal fee) as they’re often completely broke. Someone making an average salary should pay an average sum, a wealthy person should pay more and an ultrawealthy person should pay even more.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine
That’s one of the world’s largest speeding fines, and that guy isn’t actually even that rich. Like he’s barely in double digit millions. That’s honestly not that rich on a global scale.
I tried looking for someone with “just” ten times the estimated net worth, so someone worth 100 million. But top 25 richest hollywood actors and #25 is still 170 million. When the fines grow progressively, then those people would pay something like 4-5 million in a fine, probably.
Like when you get a fine of any sorts, unless it’s for a very basic infraction, it’s going to be day fines. So if you commit an infraction that you don’t go to prison for or get probation, you’ll have day fines. A day fine is equal to roughly your daily income. You can get 1-120 dayfines for an infraction and if you’re getting multiple infractions at the same time it’s at most 240 day fines.
The point here is that it would actually be good tax income and it would remove the effect of any regulations being cheaper to break for rich people, which is inherently very unjust.
I mean, you are right and the fee should be proportional to wealth, but it is not gonna affect the poor people because they use the public transit. Maybe anywhere else in the US may be true that “even the homeless need/have a car” but NYC would be the exception.
Car owner.
His kids live on 79th street and he will have to pay congestion price every time he goes to see them.
So like, what, Christmas and their birthdays?
That was my first thought as well. Why doesn’t his kids want to live with him?
Not having primary custody can be due to lots of things, I won’t judge anyone male or female for it unless there’s abuse involved.
Also maybe theyre adults?
I was wondering if there was more to the story. Like, maybe he has a disability and NYC doesn’t have an exemption for disabilities. They do, however, have an exemption for disabilities as well as a reduced rate for low income residents. To me it sounds like this guy is just lazy.
Looking at this on Google Maps, he can get anywhere on 76th St using one bus or subway ride and a 5-10 minute walk.
Zero sympathy.
Wow, I can’t believe you’d suggest subjecting this poor man to something as horrible as being forced to use a public bus.
Reminds me of the time I worked at the Sears repair call center… A woman who lived on the island of Nantucket needed her washing machine repaired - Sears only went out there two days a week, and they were booked for a couple weeks, so of course she asked “what am I supposed to do until then?” I suggested a laundromat. “Have you seen the kind of people who go to the laundromat?” I said “yup, I’m there once a week.” Was quite proud of myself, usually I don’t think of the perfect response until minutes later…
“Ahh, the old number 22. Clean, reliable public transportation. The chariot of the people. The ride of choice for the poor and very poor alike!”
I found Area 51!!
👽👾 🚌
Bedbug bus? :p
A bus? With all the other peasants?
Sometimes when I ride the bus I’m uncomfortable with how my country fails the least fortunate
A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation. (mayor of Bogotá, Enrique Peñalosa)
Colombia has really been doing great stuff in their cities
The congestion zone starts at 60th Street and heads south, so traveling from 61st - 79th street won’t even encounter the congestion pricing. This guy is dumb on so many levels.
EDIT: I just looked it up on a map and 61st is a one way going west towards Central Park, so if you enter 61st from Madison Ave, you’re forced to exit at 5th Ave and go south entering the zone, which I guess is this guy’s problem?. I also looked up the guy and he’s a CEO Real Estate developer, so he’s living in a multi-million dollar place right next to Central Park and can’t afford to pay $9 because his private parking spot in his building forces him to drive into the congestion pricing zone. Come on!
Wait, it’s 9 dollars?
Oh my God. I thought it was cheap. This poor bastard, does he have a GoFundMe I can donate to? This is highway robbery, it’s going to drive him straight to the poor house or worse the public transportation system!
Maybe he’s a shady CEO scared his shit business practices will get him capped so he avoids all public transit.
Another case of the big bad gubberment hurting the little guy!
Public transportation in the USA sucks shit and it should be improved before unleashing a congestion toll.
My brother lived way out in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan for decades. Never had a car the entire time. Apparently New York’s public transportation isn’t a big issue.
Mass transit in Manhattan, and NYC as a whole, is actually a very good system, that just needs upgrades.
It’s a good system in terms of “if you look at the map and see all the places it goes”. You ever use it daily though?
I used it for two weeks daily while there on a work trip. Worked fine, far better than my hometown, which still has a pretty decent system. I’d say its about on par with what you see in Paris.
The main complaint is that it’s absolutely filthy and decrepit. MTA has major corruption issues. The same subway cars in use now can be seen in movies from the 1970s (e.g. The Warriors). Service unreliability is a thing as well. It is not pleasant to use for actual daily commuting for years at a time. You can actually notice an increase in how many communicable diseases you get. I’m out of the area now and literally shudder a little thinking about using it again.
PATH going to New Jersey - an example from the same area - is about 10x cleaner, and seems very reliable. Lower volume, but that shouldn’t change anything.
How are you this way?
Don’t put the cart before the horse. The Wikipedia article says that “The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) estimates $15 billion in available capital will be generated by bonding revenues from the tolls, which will be available to fund repairs and improvements to the subway, bus, and commuter rail systems.”
I take it you’ve never heard of new york, then?
NYC has one of the biggest public transportation systems ever built
Travel to Japan and visit any large metropolitan area equivalent to NYC. Yeah, that’s the dust trail left behind by the Japanese.
Yeah that’s a good point. Also, the congestion pricing could fund improvement to public transport And motivate a change in perspective for the residents.
Wendover productions did an interesting video on this recently.
Can somebody share a better measurement than “18 blocks” for the rest of the world?
A “block” is not a fixed measurement, it is the distance between cross streets in a grid. They have blocks in Europe and people definitely understand the concept in my experience.
I understand the concept of a block (even if they don’t really exist in my city), but that doesn’t really give me an idea of the actual distance, so it’s a pretty useless information to me. Using proper standard metrics makes much more sense.
Its also significantly worse for Manhattan because depending on if you turn 90 degrees its like 4.5 times the distance.
North South blocks in Manhattan are fairly uniform, and a standard measurement there. Just hard to get across to someone that doesn’t know
18 blocks in NYC is approximately 1.5 km to the rest of the world.
That is literally 15 minutes lol. But hes a ceo so thats why a 15 minute walk is so hard for him.
5’ or less by bike
after reading that he lives on a one way that takes him farther away before he can take a turn to go towards his kids, he probably drives for longer than 15 minutes 🤦
Last I checked, NYC had lots of taxis so he wouldn’t have to hurt his precious feet by walking any further than outside of his luxury building and telling his doorman to hail him one.
A block can vary, but in a city like NY a safe estimate is 0.1 mile per block. So 18 blocks is something like 1.8 miles or 2-3 km.
It’s you-shoud-probaby-walk-this-distance-for-your-health walking distance.
He’s less than a block from the N R W line too. Such an inconvenience.
I asked Google and told me that’s like one mile distance.
This fucker is serious that he has no other way of traveling that then by car?
I bet taking the car actually takes longer if there’s any traffic at all.
I looked on the map. That overlooks Central Park.
If your home overlooks Central Park, I’m pretty sure you can afford a congestion charge.
Some of the most frugal, penny pitching people I know are also some of the wealthiest people I know.
Then he can walk.
Yep. I work in tech and there’s a guy who cannot stop bragging about his millionaire status and is so ridiculously cheap.
You know he’s got exactly $1,000,001 too.
A good reason to feel sorry for his kids.
You don’t get rich enough to afford such a location by paying fees that benefit others.
Someone should tell these people about gasoline (or electricity) if they think “having to pay to use your car” is an insane notion.
They may take our lives, but they will never take our DRIVING 18 BLOCKS TO SEE OUR CHILDREN
He could walk, but I can also see why he might not want to. It’s more than I would probably want to walk.
Biking is also an option, although maybe biking is uncomfortable or inconvenient for him for some reason. Also, I don’t know what the biking infrastructure is like in that area. Maybe it’s not ideal. I don’t know if e-bikes are allowed in bike lanes, but if they are, that might be an option.
He could take the subway. That’s probably what I would do, although I’ve never been on the New York subway. I only know about it through its portrayals in various media, which is often negative. I’ve heard it described as “a public toilet in rails.” I can’t personally speak to how accurate that is, that’s just what I’ve heard.
I think making better cities requires a holistic approach. It’s not just about having more bike lanes, or public transportation, it’s about designing cities for maximum efficiency and convenience, and for the promotion of maximum health and well being. I think cars are a symptom of our skewed priorities, not necessarily the root cause of the problem themselves. I think we need to change our priorities, first and foremost.
This is right next to Central Park. He could ride his bike (or his e-bike) through what is widely considered one of the most beautiful urban parks in the world without having to worry about cars or red lights.
The subway is also fine. It’s by no means a public toilet on rails. The platforms are a bit grungy, but inside the cars it’s comparable to London or Paris.
In addition to the subway, there are no less than 4 bus routes along Madison & 5th Avenues.
If that’s true then it sounds like this man has a lot of options, and hopefully he will recognize the benefits to availing himself of one or more of these options.
He won’t. He will keep driving.
He’s a real estate developer, so just assume he has a similar world view as Trump.
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Love how this is in the one US city where you need a car the least as far as I know. You’ve got the subway, the sidewalks, cabs… I mean sure, the latter exists in the form of ride sharing apps basically everywhere now, but NYC had cabs even in old movies. Though I suspect most other cities of any real size had them as well
I had a girlfriend from Phoenix who was surprised you could hail a cab on the street in Boston, she thought that only happened in NYC…
The cabs actually get a surcharge for the congestion pricing but who cares.
Only a buck 50. Cabs and rides have get a greatly reduced rate, and it gets packed onto the ride charge.
I dunno about NYC but Chicago has a pretty large and diverse public transit system.
That said the first bus I got onto in Chicago clearly hit a parked car that was too far over the line and the driver just sorta shrugged and kept on truckin’.
That’s why you dont park over the line. Seems fine to me.
Agreed, just thought it hilarious
There are buses too. Last time I visited NYC I used buses all the time. They were clean, frequent, cheap, and I had great conversations with other passengers. 10/10.
