So all we need to do is find a way to put people in prison!
Win-win!
That’s why homelessness is being criminalized.
The explicit goal is to recreate Victorian workhouses for the benefit of the new generation of robber barons.
Hey now, they won’t be called Workhouses. They’ll be called AI training data centers and Gig Opportunity Recruitment Points.
And if you don’t support these amazing engines of economic development and industrial growth, you are clearly just throwing your support behind the concentration camps that the Bad Team wants to build.
Hell, I how do I even know you’re not a Russian bot or a Chinese Wumao, trying to sow dissent in our glorious country, anyway?
I’m sure Elon will give the camps some dip shit meme name.
Cyber-camps? Giga-gulags?
bachta tanks
“Marginal Demographic, Mandatory Assistance” camps?
“Wage-Exempt Extradition & Deportation” camps?
“Temporary Unpaid Assistant Housing”?Nah, he’ll make it some dumbass acronym.
Like “MDMA”, “WEED”, or “TUAH”?
Yeah…
My wife was a journalist in SoCal a while back. She did a story on some women prisoners that were used to assist in firefighting.
They worked alongside Cal Fire. It was rough work, they were right there in the shit.
She can’t recall if they were paid anything extra but she does remember that they ALL volunteered for it. They actually loved it.
I assume after being locked up long enough, people will agree to anything to go outside for a little while, and vary their routine.
In the end we will all love our chains, the whip, and big brother.
Yeah but Lemmy said they are slaves.
In my job, I occasionally facilitate training for prisoner firefighters. Not only do they all love the job, they are also the best FD we train with. They read the material, study procedures, get it right when being observed. They get to stay at the firehouse instead of the prison itself, so both getting invited to do it and continuing to do it are huge for the inmates. They also love it. It burns my biscuit right up that they’ll not be able to be a firefighter when they get out.
They allow them to become firefighters nowadays.
The law changed recently
Depends on the state I imagine. But I just looked mine up and it’s “in the last 10 years” and not “ever” so that’s good.
It could lead to them getting job offers if/when they get released.
It does not.
They are banned (or they used to be, looks like there were some legal changes recently) from being firefighters after they’re released, so…
Firefighting is known to attract arsonists… probably a bit harder to vet known criminals
Honestly if anything I think it would be easier than vetting someone with no background, you already have what they’ve been convicted of. Idk how many burglars or murderers like to dabble in arson.
If only there were more context and nuance available than “convict/not convict” when making such determinations and risk assessments about candidates…
Why didnt the leftists stop this measure?
California is not the Socialist state Fox News would have you believe it is.
Its what like 40% republican, %30 neoliberal(also republican)? Not a bastion for liberals or leftists
Other way around, 46 percent Democrat to 24 percent Republican. And no. We’re not doing the whole, “all liberals are automatically actually neoliberal” thing. That’s ridiculous.
Yup and Trump will do this to illegals… Welcome to the concentration camps
Lol, he absolutely won’t.
Any billionaire is free to step in and properly compensate these heroes, but they won’t
It could be worse: they could be insured by UHC :)
They’ll probably need specialty pulmonology care later in life and a lot of public insurance plans either don’t cover it, or the waiting lists for Medicaid patients are obscene. At least UHC would get you onto the shorter waiting list.
So no more “Delay, Deny, Defend”?
Oh, they’ll absolutely still pull that shit, but there are a ton of medical practices that have a separate waiting list for Medicaid patients because they only accept a certain percentage of their patients being on Medicaid. UHC will still leave you with the bill, but having Medicaid can make it difficult to even see the specialist in the first place regardless of how much it will cost.
Fire Country
Yes, that is a TV show.
removed by mod
What are “perverse incentives”?
removed by mod
I was being rhetorical.
If you use prisoners for slave labor the state will make more things illegal with harsher prison sentences to increase the slave population. Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits, that’s why they’re giving drug offenders time in double digits.
Want to end the War on Drugs? End prison slavery and end the perverse incentives for making more prison slaves.
indentured servitude is “reasonable”.
legal slavery is “reasonable”
you’re on some good shit.
removed by mod
removed by mod
Important to add, once freed they will be ineligible to take a job as a firefighter in California.
Umm
The website for this program states the exact opposite
https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/conservation-camps/faq-conservation-fire-camp-program/
Yes. A felony conviction does not disqualify employment with CAL FIRE. Many former camp firefighters go on to gain employment with CAL FIRE, the United States Forest Service and interagency hotshot crews.
CAL FIRE, California Conservation Corps (CCC), and CDCR, in partnership with the Anti-Recidivism Coalition (ARC), developed an 18-month enhanced firefighter training and certification program at the Ventura Training Center (VTC), located in Ventura County.
The VTC trains formerly-incarcerated people on parole who have recently been part of a trained firefighting workforce housed in fire camps or institutional firehouses operated by CAL FIRE and CDCR. Members of the CCC are also eligible to participate. VTC cadets receive additional rehabilitation and job training skills to help them be more successful after completion of the program. Cadets who complete the program are qualified to apply for entry-level firefighting jobs with local, state, and federal firefighting agencies.
For more information, visit the Ventura Training Center (VTC) webpage.
To my knowledge, this was only implemented recently and due to state budget cuts to firefighting services, fire departments in California are understaffed. Ex convicts can work as firefighters now, but it’s unlikely they’ll be able to do so. And as I said, this was only implemented recently so for many years they couldn’t. And hiring culture takes time to change.
That’s the first sensible advocacy point I’ve seen sense I started reading these threads. It really doesn’t make sense to assign prisoners to jobs they’re legally barred from.
From what I’ve heard this is actually an excellent job for many of them. It’s good pay (for prison labor) doing valuable work with a lot of dignity. And it’s work for their community that’s valuable on the outside. It should always be truly voluntary else it be horrifying, but if they can’t do it once they get out it’s not job training and it’s not reducing recidivism. These prisoners are doing heroic work, let them be heroic once freed.
All prison jobs should pay actual wages and be voluntary though. While the firefighting job is voluntary, many prison jobs are not. Including jobs making products for private companies.
deleted by creator
maybe hold an outside job as part of a finite period for reintegration
That’s not a bad idea. Like a student co-op to help get some job experience before leaving school. (and should be normal wages)
They absolutely should not be allowed to work for private companies for less than a normal employee. That’s infuriating. Those companies should be burned to the ground. Disgusting
Fine by me - I’ve hired ex-cons to do work on my house and would hire them again. But there’s a lot of vindictiveness about people’s past deeds. An excellent computer programmer I worked with got fired when her background check turned up a prostitution arrest from when she had been a homeless 18-year-old. Then at age 32, after turning her life around, she found herself being abruptly escorted from the building by two security guards. The problem was that we worked in a school district headquarters - nowhere near away students, but rules are rules and bureaucrats gonna crat, right? I would have had her give talks in front of high school kids. But it isn’t just misdirected authority - ordinary people social media will equally crucify somebody for Liking the wrong tweet. Maybe flinging shit is just a primate instinct, I dunno.
A large force of inexperienced indentured servants fighting the blaze, yet so much coverage about the horror of a handful of female hires.
I mean…if you’ve got a trained firefighter, someone who understands fire science…do they need to be the ones holding every hose? Why not just a bunch of muscle holding the hose (or digging the trenches) under the guidance of a pro?
No one is stopping that from happening they just don’t want prison slaves used for it. Considering how much of our justice system is just made up bullshit that incentivizes bad people to keep prisons full so there’s plenty of slaves to choose from instead of just making this a normal job that would require proper pay and benefits.
A lot of them are experienced though. They’ve been using prison labor for wildfire fighting for years.
Maybe they should pay them the real wage the other firefighters get then? I’m cool with them working but not with them being taken advantage of. That lowers the salary of every fire fighter not just the prisoners. That means a real firefighter is out of a job if a slave can be forced to do it.
If they get wages then they’d be able to build a better life after being paroled and they wouldn’t be getting sent back to prison on parole violations. So the system would lose its “human capital”… it’s sad. Never go to prison, especially not the first time.
That means a real firefighter is out of a job if a slave can be forced to do it.
¡Not if you commit arson!
What is this…some kind of Suicide Squad?
The Inflammable Basterds.
Also keep in mind that they are getting charged by the day to be in prison and if ever released will owe a large bill. Usually this results in immediate bankruptcy which further increases chances of future incarceration. By design
Yo, what?? I need to do some research apparently, because I was under the impression that their stay was paid by for taxes. It can’t be both, and if it is I may need to change careers.
Yeah I was very surprised when I heard this too. Absolutely despicable. https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-of-states-allow-people-to-be-charged-for-time-behind-bars
Ooof, that hurt to read.
A real -5* hotel experience
They mention how much money they’re making but not that everything they have to spend it on comes from the institution imprisoning them and unconscionably price-gouged even by outside standards.
Same with immigrants
Also, many of them are ineligible to become actual firefighters after their release from prison due to their criminal record. I would be slightly more okay with this system if it translated into a guaranteed position as a firefighter following release if they agree to go to an area in need like in smaller communities that have trouble recruiting firefighters.
