- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms.
It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board.
FAQ:
Why?
That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances.
How does this work?
Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed.
What about the posts?
Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled.
As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM.
Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)
Keep this community open for everyone and find a new mod team. With the world admin team “busting echo chambers” (even thoughs that aren’t echo chambers) by overarching mod undercutting admin action, I’m extremely worried that this alone will ruin 196 as a whole. The etiquette on world is also different which will result in the altering of the community into some unknown. The quality content may also suffer a degradation as the culture of blajha and world are not the same.
I’m sorry but what the fuck are you on?
lemmy.world
Literally the worst instance for a decentralized platform (cuz they’re already too big).
please be assured we have same mod team
No that doesn’t assure me. Whichever mods signed off on this should be removed from any 196 community because you took rule too seriously and forgot about your community before posting
It’s really obvious what this is about. And it’s not a good look for you.
deleted by creator
If you don’t want to get into it yourself, totally cool, but if anyone else does - what is this about?? Like, I don’t understand the moderatorial and ideological differences referenced that justify bringing 196 to .world.
I loved having 196 on blahaj specifically, means more exposure to my trans and gender diverse homies and their memes because they feel safe here.
Edit: To those just joining us, who like me comment before reading the whole thread, this is a good place to start: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12464713
[Edit edit: Changed to a LBZ link, because having it be the lemmy.world link is the height of irony]
I can only guess that this is about this instance’s zero-tolerance policy for transphobia. This means there might be higher standards for removing transphobic content than the mods might be capable of meeting / willing to meet. This is just a guess, though - I would like some clarification as well, esp. since in the absence of clarity it just looks like 196 is moving because they don’t want to be vigilant about removing transphobic content, which as nimble pointed out is not a good look. 🤷♀️
EDIT: found the answer
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20937206/12464713
in response to the question:
Compromise on what? What’s the issue?
The post doesn’t really say anything spesific [sic]
We get this response:
A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world:
Heavy-handed moderation, mostly. Don’t get me wrong, we do love Ada and appreciate her work, but sometimes we’ll see people getting banned or comments getting removed for relatively mild takes. We also often disagreed about the severity of the actions, like ban lengths being way too long considering the reason, or people getting banned over something that really should just be a removal.
To put it bluntly, (and I mean no disrespect, but) her mod actions often felt very vibes-based. Like her feelings heavily influenced her decisions. We want the rules to be enforced in a more objective fashion.
So we asked her to let us handle 196 if the content in question wasn’t explicitly trans/queerphobic or illegal, etc… She disagreed, and we respect her view, so we brought up the idea of moving and she gave us her blessing.
so tl;dr disagreements about 1. what counts as violations, and 2. the severity of punishment for those violations (where Blahaj admins are perceived as too strict and 196 mods wish to be more lenient).
Thank you - asked the question in another place, and while I’d much prefer an offical comment from Ada and/or Moss or the other mods, I’m starting to form a picture.
If it’s a capability thing I would hope there would’ve been a call for more mods to support the instance-wide rules…easy to say, of course, but I feel like there’s so much love for this community they’d have some volunteers.
This sucks.
Edit: Start here, folks: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12464713
I agree it sucks, but I also want to resist the the urge to villainize the 196 mods in the absence of information. Maybe they are just being realistic, or maybe they really prefer to have more moderation autonomy to determine what they consider transphobic - it’s not clear to me.
What prevents them to just transfer this community to other mods? Locking it down seems overreacting.
I pretty much agree. It seems more in the spirit of the fediverse to let blahaj 196 to continue with new mods that are more comfortable with the hard line blahaj takes about transphobia, and if the old mods wish to start a new 196 community on .world, there’s nothing stopping them.
Agreed - putting rationale aside, locking the community and just saying “We are moving our community to .world, go there” without community consultation is a terrible move.
Man, haven’t had to think this much about the relationships between instances, communities, and userbases re: ‘ownership’ for a while.
Basically lemmy.blahaj.zone has gotten some criticism because of the server rules and stickied instance posts where we are to respect everyone’s identity/neopronouns. There are a few people who identity as something people consider not real, such as dragons. Neopronouns arent necessarily meant to be literally real, and someone may identify as something they feel resembles them such as a dragon, or “fae”. But some people believe that since dragons/fae/etc don’t literally exist then they aren’t valid identities/neopronouns. These people think that lemmy.blahaj.zone is enabling trolls identifing as non-real things. It also means that people in this 196 community need(ed) to respect people’s identities even if they didn’t think they were valid. Apparently that was too much to ask for the mods of this community.
Personally i don’t know, nor do i care, if the 1-2 people are trolling. If they are, they aren’t typical nasty trolls. They are just like any other user to me. Imo If someone wants to identify as a dragon then good for them. If anything it helps identify people who are openly combative with the instance rules.
All that is to say, it was clear to me that the mods want to move to another instance where they don’t have to respect identities they don’t consider valid. And my suspicion was right because the mod spelled it out down thread
[…] I can guarantee we will not be expected to entertain trolls […]
Imagine being such a pissbaby that you hold a community hostage instead of blocking someone that you struggle to engage with.
You don’t have to imagine, just talk with these
modsclowns.
u guys should mod a community on lemmy.world if they share ur values more but don’t steal our community
deleted by creator
we aren’t stealing your community. the people who built and facilitated this community are the people who are migrating this community.
I think for people who feel safe on blahaj but aren’t guaranteed that safety on .world, it might feel like locking /c/196 on Blahaj and the moderators telling everyone to move to .world is a bit like stealing the community. Maybe /u/not_IO meant that 196 on Blahaj should remain unlocked so 196 can continue to exist on Blahaj, but obviously the question is who will moderate the community if the moderators all leave for .world?
So the community never belonged to the users, it was only the mods’ ?
Setting aside what an awful & insulting response this (the community is the community, that’s why the word exists. Moderators are not the community)…
If you really believe this, then why lock the existing one? Obviously your well planned & executed move will be wildly successful, so there should be no need to lock the existing one. Unless of course 8 people who do caretaker duties on the community are in fact NOT the community, the people are and you need them, even if you don’t respect their opinions or contributions.
Yeah im sure 4.47k people subbed to the new community in a matter of 6 hours and its not just a bunch of bots used to validate this decision in the eyes of uninitiated bystanders. I mean the .world community is older than 6 hours, but it was completely dead for the last 3 months until yesterday.
so you own this shit?
if you’re really going through with this, I dare you to call it 197
This is the most reddit thing I’ve seen on Lemmy and that’s saying a lot
They’ll fit right in on LW.
Imagine believing that you “build and facilitate” a community by being a mod. What an asshole.
In that case then why even announce anything? Apparently it’s your community and you can do what you like with it, you take your ball and go home. I assume that means you’ll be making and posting all the content there yourself?
Yeah you are lmao because we can’t post here anymore. Unlocking it would be a step towards “unstealing” it.
The answer in that case would be for some users with a history of good faith interaction who are interested in doing so to reach out to the blahaj admins and ask if they can take over the running of this Community.
We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this.
Ada being a blahaj admin. If that is true then i wouldnt be too optimistic.
I thought we left that attitude on Reddit, that’s a really disappointing and insulting take. The community is the community, not a handful of moderators. We’re grateful for the work y’all are doing, but, and I really don’t intend this as an insult, moderators are replaceable.
By moving a queer community to an openly hostile network you are stealing a community
I don’t see why if you’re unhappy with moderation decisions why you can’t start your own 196 over on world and leave this one alone
A community is not something you can “migrate”. You are not migrating a community, you are migrating a community space and in doing so, you are alienating said community. If you are unwilling to provide a safe space for said community, the community will either find new space or take their space back.
The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins
Can you expand on this? It’s not really clear to me why you’re making this move.
see here: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20937206/12464713
looks like the main “ideological” differences are about what counts as violations and how to deal with them:
a 196 mod said:
sometimes we’ll see people getting banned or comments getting removed for relatively mild takes. We also often disagreed about the severity of the actions, like ban lengths being way too long considering the reason, or people getting banned over something that really should just be a removal.
part of Ada’s response:
every post and user I removed was due to queerphobia, transphobia, trolling or spam, issues that broke the instances rules. Some of that bigotry was was implicit rather than explicit, like dog whistles, tone policing etc. Some of it was the “just asking questions” transphobia that pervades most corporate owned social media spaces. … As moss said, this is ideological differences in how low grade transphobia and queerphobia should be dealt with. moss is ok with community pushback for the low grade stuff rather than moderation, whereas I’ll just remove it.
They could still transfer the existing community
Sorry can you say more? I am not connecting the dots between my comment and yours. I am only trying to answer blackn1ght’s question about what the ideological differences were between 196 mods and the Blahaj admins.
While there are differences in moderation styles as you detailed in your post, that does not explain why they couldn’t just leave the Blahaj community open, potentially to Blahaj admins who would call for a new mod team rather than locking it down.
Not sure I need you to keep copying the comments in both places, but to respond here as well, yes - I agree.
Sounds good!
Basically it’s “vibes”, that’s the only explanation the 196 mods intend to give us
I’m sorry, but lemmy.world was the worst possible decision for a place to relocate to. I wouldn’t follow you there even if I could. If you really have to go with a big, liberal instance that will let you moderate however you want at least you should have gone with lemm.ee. They’re not making lemmy monolithic, not as much of a troll magnet, and far more competent at what they do.
Seconding this
Well, it doesn’t seem to be a joke, guess the mods like admins forcing changes to moderation policies, unless users throw a massive shit storm.
We joined this community because its on blahaj.zone.
We’re not moving
Seriously. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should leave the community, so ultimately this may be a good thing, so long as this community is kept here and passed to other people.
oh boy i can’t wait to be randomly shadowbanned just like on every lemmy.world community where i open my stupid tranny mouth too much.
I don’t know how many times I have to reiterate that that’s not going to happen
Minus being trans (but queer!) fucking SAME
So I made a new community.
!onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Banner and icon will follow, I’m literally out running errands right now!
Hope the current one will be reopened. Also using letters rather than numbers make it more difficult to use
Agreed, getting this back is much more preferable. I tried 197-1 but the - was problematic.
Okay to have a backup, but I’m still hopeful we’ll get this one unlocked
Same, I’d much rather not have a break in content continuity and I’m ambivalent on being a mod.
BOOOO!
Let us keep our own community right here on Blåhaj!
Fuck this. I’ll be blocking the
newfake 196 then.Every single post on the “new” community is from a .world user. Maybe its time for me to block all of .world, it was pretty clear from the start that .world is predatory but this just makes me even more sure. They can have fun over there with their meta/threads federation lol
.world is federating with threads?? eww
Yes
:(
A link that everyone can click: !196@lemmy.world
boom
What’s the ! for?
So that you’ll go there from your home instance, and not as a website (in most browsers/apps)
Adding my voice to the pile. Leave it here. Unlock it and let new mods take over. You can do your thing wherever you want. But let us do our thing where we want.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no