Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?
“They did not answer the question,” he said.
“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
demorats coping hard
What funny is everyone knows for a fact what lesson they should’ve learned, and if you ask 3 people they will give you 5 contradicting answers, every single one of which will be the most important strategy advice that stupid dems don’t see. It will usually can be boiled into “They need to focus on this specific issue and only on it, to the detriment of all the others”.
Don’t worry too much, it’s the same in France. A whole side of the politic is in denial.
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
Still one step lacking to understand what Republicans already do.
Moneyed interests are the leaders you get. Money is just one of the kinds of power, but a lot of other kinds are applied in the form of money. You can’t seriously expect to contribute energy of a negligible cost into expressing your opinion and even casting your vote, and even donating a dollar or two, and for that to somehow give real power to your side, even multiplied by millions. You are already choosing from a limited pool of people and positions to support. Defined by parties with real power before your choice. Together with a lot of other conditions of an election.
This is why the perfect, logical, supposedly honest system the more classical kind of Democrats dream about would not result into a honest democracy.
This is why the well-meaning kind of Republicans talk about checks and balances, and interpersonal connections between people having power, and gun ownership and in tech it would seem sometimes that they want to get into dystopian future faster.
That is because dystopian future may be better than dystopian past. Every day of your life is unlike any before it. It’s the same in history and good tall states with institutions and good democracies are devolving into something a bit more “1704 anno domini” all over the world. This is not anything new. The world is always changing. Unfortunately what progressives today consider progress is not the direction in which the humanity is, well, progressing.
But that dissonance is a clue for us to see. It’s not Bronze Age anymore, but humans are still eating each other. Progress is meaningful on such a scale, and so little affected by someone’s personal decisions, that any party or ideology calling itself “progressive” seems arrogant to the degree of madness.
Well, I’m not in denial. This country is full of fucking idiots. The next Democratic presidential candidate should be a celebrity that promises to achieve world peace and full gay space communism. Apparently empty promises and celebrity are what win elections.
Next? I’m sorry, but democracy continues to be dismantled. The train has left the station. Trump already had 4 years of training and now with direct support from Musk… Hate fear and more hate mongering…and Trump is using it… So are accusations of election meddling etc… fuck why hasn’t there been that accusation even from Democrats? That’s it… Its game over.
All those highly secured nuclear secrets or files in the restroom at the golf club… anyone who steals something like that… also steals/cheats in the election. But not 1 accusation… Republicans as well as Democrats don’t want democracy anymore. A convicted highly criminal traitor to the country and enemy of the state becomes president without riots etc… The Democrats who are now just pointing at the Republicans with “I told you so” but not doing a riot or anything else are just as hostile to democracy.
I think you may have missed the point a bit. It’s exactly these ‘empty promises’ which have been the democrats issue over the past 30 years.
They get elected on messages like ‘make the economy work work everyday americans’ and then once in office they prioritize the status quo and making sure that nothing major changes. This benefits the wealth and damages everyday people, many of whom voted for them in the hopes that the democrats would improve their situation.
As awful as much of their platform is, the Republicans have proven that they aren’t scared to break things and make big changes. This appeals to many voters who feel let down by empty promises.
Democrats say good things for the people. Democrats win = Republicans just block everything and embarrass Democrats for it. Republican voters also go without understanding… The main thing is against the “enemy” (i.e. against America…)
Of course the Republicans only build shit and destroy America besides blocking everything good that would benefit the American citizen (you). But it was the Democrats… who accept a democratic election and after defeat. NOT block everything from Republicans. How deluded can you be.
Name one of those empty promises and let’s review how they were voted on in congress. If the Democrats voted against it then your comment has merit, if Republicans blocked it your comment has no merit
You don’t get to just blame the opposition for making sure nothing got done. Especially when the other party manages to succeed when they have power.
What are you even talking about? I do get to blame the Congress members who vote for or against something. That is your civic duty. What do you do, check boxes for funsies?
The failure of Democrats is their own. Giving them a pass because of Republicans is lazy. There’s always opposition.
So yeah, for funsies
What you been smoking, my friend?
Just look at the responses, complete denial. The american people overwhelmingly didn’t want kamala, the democrats thought they could pull another Bernie and we would just do what they wanted. No, it doesn’t work that way, and no they haven’t learned their lesson. They won’t so long as they retain a modicum of power. Democrats and Republicans are the problem.
The only lesson is that unreliable voters can be ignored.
People only ever emulate the winning individual, side, or group.
There is no “They lost so next time they will cater to me.” There is a “I didn’t vote, so next time they will ignore me.”
Edit: Don’t put words in my mouth. It makes uou sound stupider than your words do.
Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:
If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.
If you believe things aren’t true or didn’t pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.
Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren’t seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.
Winning is detrimental to the party.
At a certain point, they realized that they make more money when they lose. The end goal of both parties isn’t to win, it’s to make the most money for their members. The democrats just happen to have stumbled into a situation where they have a perverse incentive to fuck things up just enough to barely lose so that they can keep their funding up.
Dems have won every national election except for 2 in the past 10 years.
Who upvotes this shit? Jesus Christ this is idiotic.
You drank the Kool aid.
The only lesson to be learnt from this is that forgiving debts, pardoning marijuana offences, wanting fair elections, etc don’t work.
The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren’t conservative enough.
Fuck that lesson.
The voters are going to learn a lesson.
They didn’t last time. Maybe they’re getting what they wanted, and it’s the DNC that should be trying something different?
Or the voters can start voting better. They make their own decisions.
Sure, but the subject of this thread is whether Democrats have learned lessons from this. The Democratic Party can also make decisions, and ideally it’ll make some decisions that attract more votes next time.
While that’s true, choosing to vote for Trump, a third-party, or not at all is like saying, “I don’t like this ham sandwich and I don’t like my sandwich choices… so I’m going to eat this dog-turds-and-radioactive-glass-shards sandwich instead!”
This country is fucked.
Edit: Rather than respond below to every comment, thought I’d clarify a few things here.
- I never said Democrats didn’t fuck up. They certainly did.
- But - and this is important - we can’t ignore the roles that racism, sexism, and above all misinformation played. To pretend there was none, and that vast swaths of the electorate didn’t fall for it, would be disingenuous.
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
If only someone, or a group of like minded thinkers, had predicted this exact social course and offered another course that actually has ideological solutions for capital interests fucking over everything in their quest for more money and power!
Too bad RCV is moving so slowly
Can’t imagine why politicians would be hesitant to mess with a system that put them in power.
RCV was on like 5 ballots last election and failed in each one. The VOTERS didn’t want it.
In Nevada they tied RCV to independents being able to vote in primaries, instead of being its own bill. The carrot and stick approach upset a lot of people, including me.
Neither centrists nor republicans want RCV, yeah. Republicans might lose and centrists might lose the ability to run as second worst to republicans.
Oh man that would be incredible. I’d actually be vaguely satisfied with my choices on the ballot.
I think a lot of the core of the Kamala base is just as out of touch as the Democratic establishment. The fact that the establishment can’t understand this outcome just demonstrates their ineptitude.
People are hurting, a lot. Real wage growth has been stagnant, people are having trouble making ends meet, the wealthy are richer than ever leaving the working class with less and less.
What do the Democrats do to actually improve peoples material conditions? Absolutely nothing. The CHIPS act and IRA are great for longer term problems, but does nothing to put more food on people table. Kamala had the gall to ignore the problem all together. The economy is great, look at the stock market! And her big economic plan? Tax breaks for small businesses and your first home purchase. That’s it. That’s their fucking cornerstone economic policy. That’s not gonna help the vast majority of people.
Then on the other hand you have trump. He tells everyone it’s the brown peoples fault everything sucks, so we will get rid of them (and, by implication, your problems). It’s their fault egg prices are high, just get rid of them and things will go back to the way things were. Of course the rich are the real problem, not immigrants or trans people or any other conservative boogie man, but Trump acknowledged the pain many working class Americans are under.
Now you can think to yourself, how would anyone believe that? Think about someone who’s working two jobs to make ends meet, they’re surrounded by Fox news, all their family is Republican. They were raised in the public education system (half the country can’t read at a 6th grade level) and can’t parse the details of domestic economic policy, but Trump says it’s the brown peoples fault. Finally they felt seen and acknowledged. They remember the Trump stimulus checks. They remember the tax break (even if it’s temporary, they won’t look too closely and notice it’s permeant for the rich).
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR and really championing the working class. Thanks to citizens united we will never see that again, but it’s quite easy to understand their loss against trump. There’s only one issue, and thats class conflict. Until the Democrats stop serving their corporate donors they will never win again as it’s too easy for Republicans to acknowledge working class pain and scapegoat marginalized people.
Not reading all that. I’m apart of Kamala’s base of 75 million. I guess I’m out of touch and super wealthy according to you.
You’re certainly out of touch if you won’t even read the explanation as to why you lost.
But I expect little else from the Khive.
Cry more
k then I’m not ready any of yours past “Im not reading all that”. Or any of your other comments either.
The fact that you so proudly claimed to not want to read yet decided to respond anyway makes you pretty out of touch. That last bit is just icing on the cake since they never claimed that.
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR
At this point, I’d expect them to bring back Japanese internment camps and nothing else. I’d say redlining too, but that would involve having a housing program to be discriminatory with.
Redlining was mainly a private-sector thing involving loan availability and insurance premiums. It wasn’t primarily to do with housing programs.
Redlining was an official policy of the Federal Housing Authority under Homer Hoyt.
Wouldn’t surprise me either. Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Absolutely. I just can’t trust Democrats to do it anymore.
Because the Democrats jave just been a controlled opposition party since Regan.
DISINFORMATION, not misinformation.
You’re missing the lesson too, ironically.
The voters didn’t like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.
You’re saying “they shouldn’t have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better.” Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you’re wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They’ve been wrong multiple times now. They’re doing the “Am I so out of touch? No. It’s the voters who are wrong.” Meme.
America’s a democracy. The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they’ll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that’s part of democracy.
I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they’ve made this mistake. Even Biden’s election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.
The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
This is a bad take that I keep seeing.
Yes, the DNC fucked up massively. They should definitely have done more to convince voters.
But the voters who voted Trump/3rd party/abstained because of that are also morons who fucked up massively.
Both things are true. The DNC’s glaring mistakes do not absolve the voters of their agency. The lesson isn’t that the dog-turd sandwich eaters are rational actors, it’s that the DNC needs to take into consideration people being irrational morons if they want to win. But at the end of the day, they’re not the ones eating the sandwich. Voters have their own lesson to learn.
Both things are true.
That’s fine, I wasn’t saying the second thing was false. I wasn’t saying anything about the second thing at all.
The Democrats don’t get to choose what electorate they’re trying to convince. They must convince the American electorate. You can say whatever you want about the electorate but that doesn’t change the Democrats’ one job.
The voters aren’t wrong
That’s certainly something.
I’m perfectly fine criticizing the DNC for screwing up their one job, but that doesn’t erase my disdain for the views screwing up their’s.
And in fact, I think all this focus on criticizing the DNC over the voters, here on lemmy, is counterproductive. It isn’t incorrect, but look around you. Do you think DNC leadership is hanging out here reading these comments? I doubt it. I know for a fact that there are voters here who thought boycotting Harris would accomplish something.
If you’re going to write DNC leadership to lay bare their inadequacies, have at it. But doing that here just reinforces the idea that the voters don’t have their share of the blame. It’s just circle jerking about how everything is the Dem’s fault. The only ones who benefit from that are the Republicans, salivating over the infighting.
I criticize both the DNC and the American voters.
However, one of those things is much more capable of short-term change than the other. So criticism of that thing is much more valuable in the short term than criticism of the other.
Again, one of those things is in the audience right now, the other is not. Criticizing people who aren’t around to hear you has no value. You might as well whisper your complaints into a shoebox to tuck under your bed.
I encourage everyone to join me in writing their representatives detailed messages about their shortcomings, and proposed remedies. I encourage everyone to convince others to do the same. I encourage everyone to be politically active between elections.
I also encourage everyone to use their vote strategically on election day to slow the rise of fascism. Calling out ineffective strategy is part of that.
but that doesn’t erase my disdain
Sorry buddy, literally no one anywhere cares about your disdain, or anything else about you. If someone could make a nickel for killing us, we’d all be dead right now. Thats how much anyone cares.
Except me, because I have a “kreskin” branded hanky I can sell you though, for 20 dollars. PM me.
the voters aren’t wrong
CITATION NEEDED
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
CITATION NEEDED
America is a democracy, is it not? In a democracy the voters decide who leads them. There’s nobody to “overrule” them. If you want to lead them you have to convince them to vote for you, you can’t declare them “wrong” and take power anyway.
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
Are you saying that’d be a good thing? That seems to be what you’re suggesting, but this also seems to be sarcasm.
Do you think the voters should be overruled when they vote Republican but not when they vote Democrat?
Direct quote from the orange man: vote for me this one time, and you won’t have to vote any more. But I’m sure you conveniently missed that part of the rage cycle last year and definitely aren’t being obtuse in bad faith.
The voters can make an objectively incorrect decision, that is their prerogative. Doesn’t exonerate them for being mocked, where else would leopards eating faces get its content from?
Direct quote from the orange man: vote for me this one time, and you won’t have to vote any more. But I’m sure you conveniently missed that part of the rage cycle last year and definitely aren’t being obtuse in bad faith.
I honestly have no idea what you’re saying here. I think democracy is good, overall. You’re apparently agreeing with me, but in a way that makes it sound like you’re accusing me of opposing democracy somehow?
The voters can make an objectively incorrect decision, that is their prerogative.
The decision being made is “who do we want to have as president?” It’s an opinion.
I think democracy is the best option. very different from good.
Opinions can be wrong. The fact that that needs to be stated is laughable.
I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.
I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.
The blue bubble is as heard to burst as the red bubble. My mom lives on msnbc. There is not a moment that its not on just like my dad lives on fox. They are completely in their own different worlds made of fiction. Dad thought there was no way Trump could loose to Biden just as my mom thought there was no way Hillary/Harris could loose to Trump. Both had no moment of realisation, no moment of reflection just disbelief that they live in a bubble. Its always someone else’s fault. Dad blamed the Democrats and mom blames the left.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
MSNBC is liberal Fox News. They both are the circuses while the public is clamoring for breadcrumbs.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
Always has been.
Your family is correct. America is racist and sexist. Asl yourself, after that debate and the several Trump fumbles on the campaign trail. Would you vote for him or Harris? Regardless if you thought she was perfect or not.
If you voted for Trump, you obviously didnt care about policy when every indication points to his being objectively worse. And I’m ready to argue that all day.
No. You’re showing the same fundamental misunderstanding the Democrats do.
If people are hurting, and one candidate says “I see you’re hurting, and I will do XYZ to help you” while another says “We’re all doing fine, nothing will change with me” - it’s no wonder people go with the former! Even if they are lying.
Her fascist border plan, embrace of genocide, and her running mate Liz Cheney were all great in their opinion? Wow. I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
.world is here 24/7.
75 million votes
Biden got 80 million and won on a much more progressive platform (that he ignored when in office). Harris ran a conservative campaign that depressed her base in favor of appealing to republicans. It was some sorkin brained shit that obviously stupid and many of us were yelling about it at the time. We were right but Dems will never listen because they love corporate money more than winning or having a livable planet.
To be fair afaik Biden didn’t ignore his progressive platform. He definitely said things he then didn’t accomplish, but if I understand it right they were within the range of “all politicians lie” rather than having completely ignored his platform Obama-style.
Most pro-labour administration since FDR, but that still counted for nothing, apparently.
Because thats pretty debatable. Where was the Biden administration when the cops were breaking up the amazon strike? And Biden forced the rail union not to strike, right? And in the end years later gave them a fraction of what the strikers were going to demand, and called it victory. Typical centrist outcome.
It counted for nothing because inflation was hurting the working class and Democrats are shit at messaging.
Ran on being compassionate to migrants, deported more than Trump and had Title 42 longer. Said he’d get rid of private prisons, those migrants end up in private prisons.
Ran on cleaning up Trumps mess with Covid, just declared it over with while Americans died in droves. Didn’t even try to mitigate it. His press secretary had the gall to laugh when a reporter suggested sending free tests which they ended up doing because of public pressure.
Ran on cleaning up Washington after Trump. Appointed the most useless man in the word Merrick Garland who sat on his fucking hands until Trump rehabilitated his image. Speed was key and Biden might just be responsible for the end of American democracy because of his lack of spine.
Ran on the energy from the George Floyd protests. Solved the problem of policing of black people by funding the living shit out of cops. I assume he is trying to drown them in money.
Then he funded the shit out of genocide that his base fucking hated. Just from a pragmatic point of view he should have stopped for the elections sake, but he did it anyways because he doesn’t think Palestinians are people.
I was Biden’s biggest fan after the IRA passed. Finally we are doing something for the environment. But that is all going to be undone because the fuck refused to step down so we could have a primary.
She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
This talking point is just so Democrats have an excuse to keep AOC out of the 2028 race in favor of some centrist turd barge.
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
Have positions to Biden’s left.
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
Give a coherent speech. Talk about policy poistions. Pave her own way instead of riding on someone elses coattails. Have some basic principles and humanity. Have a staff that doesnt talk to the press about what a tyrant she is. Fight for whats right instead of what will bring in bribes.
The two couldnt be more different.
How does her dick taste?
Kamala is way more unpopular and doesnt support progressive policies, Kamala is a neoliberal, not a progressive.
I like neoliberals
That’s obvious
Actually asked voters what they want rather than tell them bullshit lies.
Stood against the palestinian genocide
Wants universal health care. Pushed the green new deal.
And thinking like this is why the democrats are going to continue to lose, and minorities and women will continue to get fucked for it.
Democrats, it’s the economy, stupid.
Harris has a lot of flaws, but America is absolutely racist and sexist, and Trump couldn’t have won otherwise. .
It won’t happen. Every election in the last 25 years, including midterms, where the democrats tried to play to “moderate republicans”, they got wiped out.
You have to conclude that they’d rather chase after “moderate Republicans” and lose than chase after the left and win.
So if Dems are never left enough for you. Wouldn’t that mean they’re moderate. Which means they won in 06, 08, 12, 18, 20 and 22 being “moderate”.
They won in 2020 on the wake of protests and low-information voters who thought they’d be freeing the immigrant camps, defunding the police, codifying roe, and getting free healthcare.
They got wiped out in 22 by being moderate and getting fuckall done by trying to compromise with republicans for 2 years.
In 06 and 08, they were finally coming about against the Iraq war and promising things, unlike in 2004 where they simply said they would do the war more competently.
and they keep trying to dislodge “sane” republicans because they’d rather maintain centralized power than risk a grass roots movement distributing power to the masses. dyed in the wool democrats prefer fascism to meaningful reform
Obama was amazingly effective at the ballot box, but to the established Democratic power structure he was dangerous. Luckily for them he merged himself into their structure rather than maintaining his separate power base and taking on individual in-party resistors like Trump has, but it was a warning about what could happen and they took that lesson to heart. They do not want anything resembling another Obama.
Yep, that’s why Hillary was basically in control of the party via Debbie Wasserman-Shultz and how much the DNC effectively owed Clinton at that point.
People want to memory hole that aspect of it but it was 100% a response to the Obama presidency an attempt to grab a stranglehold on the party which she used to shut down Sanders and force her nomination. People often forget this is the same year the Republicans rejected Jeb Bush. America didn’t want Bush v. Clinton again, and Trump and Sanders were the only voices offering anything different. Democrats shut down their nascent progressive wing, and Trump just steamrolled the Republicans because he’s a fucking bully and those guys bend over and take it for bullies.
Typical leftist using the rigged theory just like MAGA.
Well they don’t even have to decide they wanna eat a shit sandwich- they just have to not be motivated enough to go to the polls and say “I’d like the snot sandwich instead of the shit sandwich, please”. Which is what seems to have happened this election as best I’m aware
A lot of democratic voters weren’t motivated, and didn’t show up. And I agree with the statement made by the person quoted in the post, a huge part of that feels like it’s the democratic party’s complete unwillingness to criticize moneyed interests and figure out how to actually appeal to their constituency, and so they’re loosing people. And now we’re all stuck with that shit sandwich.
My concern with statements like this is that I don’t think your considering the impact that misinformation had on this election.
There were massive disinformation campaigns that had sizable effects on the dialogue that people had with their friends and neighbors. I’m worried that we could have actually put someone like Bernie as our nominee and that we still would have lost because of exactly this misinformation.
The Democrat message wasn’t making it to people and I think that it really shows…
The Democrats message was literally “The Cheney’s like us!” and “ithe economy is fine, the GDP has never been higher!” while everyone’s lives are objectivly worse than they were 2 years ago. What messge do you think people wanted to here?
If you want to be completely reductionist, then sure. They were trying to show that Trump was so upsetting that people were crossing party lines to vote Democrat…not that Democrats have becomes so centrist that they attracted right-wingers. And the economy has been great, they’re not wrong. The Democrat platform was also fantastic: $6k child tax credit, $25k first time home buyer assistance, tax reforms replacing the corporate tax rate to 28%< and taxing the rich, capping medication costs, union support, pushing reproductive rights, climate action, immigration reform. They had a STRONG platform.
…but that wasn’t good enough. So they elected the billionaire conman that is putting up his billionaire cronies. That’s going to help the economy. Like…could the Democrat message have been better? Sure, but it wasn’t bad by any means.
But how are you supposed to argue with someone who doesn’t operate on facts?
Jesus H. Christ…you wrote that paragraph and meant it, without any reflection.
To start I voted for Harris, and every Dem down ballot.
But I see your list of a few boring economic things which would never have touched my life, a tax rate so low that it is disgusting, and a bunch of nebulous promises with no real policy.
Capping medication cost…how exactly? Biden capped the medicare cost of like 12 medications…So just keep going like that. Is THAT the reform policy? Because fuck that. That isn’t change, that is tinkering.
Union support…What exactly does this mean. Does this mean the Dems wont break strikes? Because the Dems kept breaking strikes under Biden.
Pushing reproductive rights…ummm, but what does this mean? Does this include fixing the Supreme Court and the Filibuster so that actual legislation can happen…because we both know it does not.
Climate action? More drilling happened under Biden than Trump.
Immigration Reform? Dude, Biden was horrible on immigration, he just continued the Trump policy, then after being beaten over the head with immigration for 3 years pushed a right wing immigration reform to call the Republicans bluff. And Harris did nothing to differentiate herself from Biden.
And of course…then there is the weapon sales and genocide denial-ism. That too was a policy.
Trump didn’t have many more voters this time around than 4 years ago. Democrats didn’t go out to vote because they don’t believe the in the message the DNC has been putting out for the last 8 years. I don’t know what it will take to get you to understand that. All those policies are shit the Republicans would have pushed for 20 years ago. People don’t want tax credits dor their children, they want access to healthcare and and affordable child care. They don’t want tax credits for first time home buyers, they want landlords tarred and feathered on the courthouse steps. People can’t afford their rent and food anymore but the DNC are so far up their own ass they can’t see that.
Disagreeing with something doesnt make it disinformation. What were the big lies being spread about Kamala that affected the voter base? I’m not on social media, the only thing I watched was the live interview she did on fox, and she was rude and deceptive. Is an uncut interview disinformation?
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did. They made a stupid choice for idiotic reasons, and will get nothing but suffering for it. There are situations in life where feeling deeply and unconditionally ashamed of your own idiocy is the correct course of action, and this is one of them.
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
Don’t deny Dem leaders their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
Only the mind of a child could think of the idea that the two are mutually exclusive.
Votes can’t be wrong by definition, they are opinions. But if you accepted that you would have to get off your pedestal wouldnt you, and thats no fun. Go ahead and puff up your chest and brag about how obviously stupid so many people are.
Stop crying and take accountability.
😭
Voters have agency. Let’s tell them how they will be voting and do nothing to appeal to them.
If they were too insignificant to listen to, they are too insignificant to blame. Your party lost because your party is shit on purpose.
I voted for Harris and of course Trump is worse, so spare me the only talking point any of you have.
I don’t have a party. Voters had all the information they needed, and they chose poorly.
Democrats thought they didn’t have to appeal to their voters. They were wrong.
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I voted for Harris. Not that you care.
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
The problem you (people blaming voters) don’t seem to understand is, the Democrats moving right DIRECTLY demotivated voters and they stayed home because they were going to get right wing policy either way. They literally had no choice in multiple different avenues of how the country would be run so they said “fuck it if I got no choice for x y AND z, why vote?” maybe they still had a choice for a-w but maybe those specific policies didn’t matter to them personally and wouldn’t have affected their life.
This is A) the problem with having a shitty party platform and B) the problem with hyper-individualism that our country loves.
See, this is where you’re wrong. By every measure, the Democratic party platform was objectively better for humans living on planet Earth. Its problems were in degree (not being nearly progressive enough), not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people).
But people didn’t know, because of the aforementioned misinformation and disinformation. Seriously, did you know that the party platform contains an entire section on protecting LGBTQI+ people and rights? Most progressive voters who sat this one out never read it. Here, see for yourself.
But because the Democratic party wasn’t progressive enough (in some people’s eyes), they sat out the election, and someone who is a thousand times worse in every respect is going to be president tomorrow.
I take that personally. I have a trans son and a gay daughter, and their lives will be so much worse, starting tomorrow. And to protect them, I’m actively trying to figure out how to leave this country, because a lot of people didn’t care enough to protect my kids.
In 1930’s Germany, the Jewish people (and Gypsies, and - again - gay and trans people, and so on) who survived when that country descended into fascism are the ones who got the fuck out first. That is the reality that this purity bullshit has created for people like my kids.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
They did. Harris campaigned constantly, and contrary to the constant and incessant media narrative, she went into plenty of specifics.
It was all drowned out by Trump noise, and the media was 100% complicit.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
Yes, Cuellar is an asshole, no argument there. But he was by no means the only Democrat on the campaign trail. Again, the media wouldn’t fucking give Democrats the time of day, because the 24-hour Trump clown show got the ratings.
We also shouldn’t dismiss the problem of sexism, some of it internalized. Back in 2008, I had the misfortune of meeting a woman who wasn’t sure who to vote for. She wanted to vote for McCain at the time, but was hesitant because she didn’t want a woman to be vice-president. (The fact that Sarah Palin was immensely unqualified didn’t matter, but the fact she had a vagina did.) That attitude is still a lot more common than people who live in largely progressive areas realize.
not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people)
why is “trans people” always the example the centrists bring up, like its some sort of totem. Trans peoples rights are not exactly on very many peoples top 10 list of concerns, and I doubt many people could even name the rights trans people are fighting for and dems are supposedly helping with. Trans people are 1% of the population. If thats all we have for a convincing argument we’re doing politics wrong.
Bite me. I’m no fucking centrist. And maybe if you’d actually read my comment, you’d understand why trans issues are important enough for me to mention.
Edit: In light of this instant and predictable attack on my kids, I cordially invite anyone who is okay with Trump in office to “teach Democrats a lesson” to fuck themselves sideways with a pineapple.
Doesn’t matter anymore. I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala. But in the end, unity is far more important, division is how putin disarticulated his opposition.
I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala.
That would be a great demonstration that you have learned nothing.
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries. You will miss “genocide joe” ;)
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries.
Then type that instead.
Doesn’t matter, you’ll be lucky to vote again.
SHE HAS A VAGINA. THAT’S ALL IT TOOK. DEMOCRATS DIDN’T MISS THE MARK. SHE JUST HAS A VAGINA AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC WONT PUT ANYONE WITH A VAGINA IN THE WHITEHOUSE.
Fucking sigh.
You’re wrong: the biggest cunt is going into the Whitehouse
yeah funny how the dems can turn out for a joe biden who sucks in 2020 but not for a hillary clinton or a kamala harris who suck in 2016 and 2024. like yes, people sat out for a wide host of reasons, but there’s a very glaring pattern that’s very easy to see
Biden ran on progressive economic policy and a generally satisfactory platform. People had a problem with his age, but he didn’t suck, not in the same way Harris and Hillary did.
the lack of criticism for how centrist and shitty joe biden, just like hillary and kamala, is kind of exactly what i’m talking talking about. they all three suck in basically all the exact same ways. of all the candidates to run in 2020 primaries, he was basically the worst one. kamala was actually more progressive than him. but yet, here we are. arguing that he ran left of Kamala’s 2024 bid. and before you bring up palestine, they’ve all been shit on that subject since 2006 at least, so drop it. that’s not why kamala lost at the end of the day. it’s that joe biden was allowed to win as a mediocre white man in 2020, but kamala had to do everything perfect to be viable in the eyes of those 19 million voters who stayed home, especially in the swing states where people absolutely mobilized to get out the vote for an overtly fascistic and racist orange candidate
they all three suck in basically all the exact same ways.
No they didn’t. Biden ran on progressive policy written by Sanders; Harris ran on including Republicans in her cabinet and finishing the border wall.
so drop it.
No I won’t. 29% of people who voted Biden in 2020 and stayed home in 2024 cited it as the top reason they stayed home. It is part of the reason Harris lost because she didn’t promise to do anything different from Biden while Trump did (and seemingly kept his promise for once).
BIDEN IS A TALL WHITE MAN. THAT’S WHY HE WON. THAT’S WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN IN THIS IDIOT INFESTED COUNTY.
- MAN
- WHITE
- TALL
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
You learned nothing.
Obama was president for eight years.
SEE NUMBERS 1 AND 3 ABOVE.
You’re literally doing exactly what this post complains about. The overwhelming sentiment of Harris replacing Biden was change - her campaign ran on that - yet she had basically all the same stances/policies a Biden, especially where it mattered to the voterbase (I.e. Gaza). She had an opportunity to diverge from Biden’s less popular platform, but chose not to, and it cost her the election. That’s the rub.
As for 2016 - people did turn out for Hilary. She won the popular vote by a significantly higher margin than Harris.
And as for 2020, Biden only won so easily because Trump’s woefully incompetent response to Covid19 was still in recent memory - and even that still resulted in a smaller margin than Obama’s first term.
Biden got 81 million votes, hasn’t been done since.
Firstly, I should clarify that I’m looking at % margin, not absolute, as it better accounts for voter turnout.
Secondly, if you want to go by absolute votes, then it’s worth noting that more people voted for Harris than voted for Hillary or Obama (who both won the popular vote).
She had the 3rd highest vote count in history, but that means nothing when she lost to Trump with the 2nd highest vote count in history.
She was battling Trump at the height of his popularity and needed the same turnout as 2020 Biden, but that simply wasn’t going to happen. As I said previously 2020 Biden had Covid19 on his side, and didn’t have the baggage of this election (I.e. Gaza).
Biden abdicating his candidacy to Harris was a brilliant opportunity for her to lift off the baggage Biden was carrying into the 2024 election (which he was predicted to lose), but she didn’t - and as such she lost as predicted.
Her loss had nothing to do with her being a woman, and much more to do with Democrats being out of touch and relying on Republican fearmongering to get people to turn out.
This is bait haha no way it’s real
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Hillary did have the Clinton name. Whether that helped or hurt, we don’t know, but it was a factor
People stayed home because of Gaza and the economy but yeah it’s definitely because Harris is a woman.
How many voters do you think can find Gaza on a map?
But they sure can see that Harris is a woman.
You’ll find many outlets reporting on this all citing the same poll, but here’s one.
LOL. Nice headline there. Not biased at all nope.
Harris didn’t “back” Israel’s genocide. She just failed to be sufficiently performative in her condemnation of it and failed to distance herself from her own administrations pro-Israeli policies. If you think that’s not all hand-waving and that somehow Trump will be less supportive of Israel’s genocide I have some gold colored sneakers for sale.
She did condemn it to be sure, but not enough to pass the purity test of those here in the US who felt that that acting against that genocide was far and away more important than preventing Americas rapid descent into a Christo-fascist oligarchy. Which, not incidentally, will happily support Israel’s complete and total erasure of the Palestinian people.
Well done! Good job!
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“didn’t change anything”
- “that mattered to me personally”
Which is exactly how you know that all the hand-waving over Israel is largely performative. If you are not affected by domestic issues and the Really Bad Shit about to hit the fan then you can afford to be Very Very Concerned about issues that don’t affect you directly and personally.
Not all of us have that luxury.
It’s a combination of all of those factors, plus others. People try to point to one thing, but a whole bunch of people didn’t vote for her for a whole bunch of reasons.
Yeah, in 2016 it was so close any singular failing could have been the one that turned a win to a loss, but after this last one it’s multiple.
And they all sort of reinforce themselves. Seeing Democrats abandon one political principle and then seeing them being weak on one that’s close to home will make you less willing to accept it’s just a messaging choice. And all of that on top of the general economic malaise and lack of punishment for bad people in positions of power and something you might have let go becomes the final straw.
Gaza holds no water, kushner and Jr were on record for seeking to build condos in gaza once it was “cleared out”
And yet Trump toured Michigan promising (and making good on said promise, surprisingly) an end to the war.
And he just launched a meme coin opening at 25 bln. Apparently rubes live on both sides of the aisle.
Raids start next week.
Edit to think he “made good” is a joke. Some conversation from him had nothing to do with months of diplomatic work from real professionals. Biden is still in office btw and any “deals” would have to go through him.
Some conversation from him had nothing to do with months of diplomatic work from real professionals.
“You don’t see all the work going on behind the scenes” is Democrats’ “You don’t know my totally real girlfriend. She goes to another school.”
They did-fucking-not. They stayed home because she’s a woman. Just like they did in 2016. End of fucking story. The rest is just political writers needing clicks to survive.
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And angry people in denial who STILL feel a need to parade their concern like it’s a fucking medal.
