Wow.
Man, these people need to sit down and have a proper talk. It’s embarassing that they’ve been fighting in public for so long. A lot of that sounds like simple communication breakdowns, even.
Every goddamn time there’s a new step in these conflicts, my opinion of everyone involved tumbles.
Did you not read the entire page? They were in private communication. Linus stole a long GN article, Steve only asked for recognition instead of threatening lawsuits and Linus never responded.
I’ve read it.
Yes. Very unprofessional that the contacts in private ended up the way they did.
Also unprofessional that Linus thought Steve was ignoring him when he was just texting the wrong number.
But those sound a lot more like incompetence than malice to me. A lot of the story is things that could’ve been solved with better communication.
The “scale of blame” definitively sounds like it’s tilted towards LMG. But I don’t really care about that right now. What I care about is that I really hope they talk for real instead of trying and failing to understand each other by text/email and then involving the audience in their fight by taking it public.
I want them to talk like adults, and I want to stop feeling like I’m being made to watch a children’s quarrel.
This! It’s kinda turning (parts of) tech YT into the drama filled cesspool that is the rest of YT. Shit that could and should be a private conversation seems like it’s getting blown up for attention and clicks. Frankly if I wanted that type of content, I’d be watching the channels that do it better and at a much larger scale.
I’m 54 and I understand nothing about this 😂
Its a ride. Bit of backstory if you arent familiar. Linus media group (lmg) and gamers nexus(GN) are 2 content creators on youtube focusing on tech. Lmg focuses on ‘the best’ or ‘the most’ putting out videos like ‘the craziest pc ever built’ as a generic example. Theres a great team behind the videos and there are some pretty interesting one and the videos cover a wide variety of tech topics. GN on the other hand does mostly tech reviews and tech news and prides themselves on being accurate reporters.
The controversy revolves around a third party. Being content creators they have sponsors who help fund the show. One of those sponsors that LMG used is an app called Honey which is a browser add-on that claims to help find the best coupons when shopping online. They came under fire recently when it turned out they were colluding with certain websites/companies and somehow stealing money. Instead of saying anything about this when they discovered it, lmg just quietly dropped them from sponsorship a change from their usual trend of calling out the company (theyve done it before with other sponsors). In a recent video, GN announced they were filing a class-action lawsuit against Honey and at one point they made a remark about Linus not doing anything at the time and then the shitshow just went downhill from there
So this isn’t even a story then. Got it.
Thank you for your actual reporting in the comment section below this bullshit that’s getting called reporting.
It also started before that when GN/Steve got tired of LMG’s inaccurate reporting, so he posted a deep dive into LMG issues with inaccuracy. That really started the public demolition of their working relationship.
Wasn’t that after one of LTTs benchmarkers shittalked GNs methods on a video?
Yep and then Madison “Suop” dropped a bombshell about toxic work culture and verbal abuse
That was later found to be unsubstantiated by a third party lawfirm hired to investigate the matter…
All they found was no evidence one way or the other. It wasn’t disproven, nor proven.
More specifically, a fan posted a video during a tour and an (ex) LMG employee started talking about ways he felt like his department (labs) was doing things better than other channels like GamersNexus.
Instead of saying anything about this when they discovered it, lmg just quietly dropped them from sponsorship a change from their usual trend of calling out the company (theyve done it before with other sponsors).
If by other sponsors you mean Eufy, which happened well after They dropped Honey, then yes that was handled differently. Their logic was that Eufy’s (still-ongoing) security issues directly affected consumers, whereas all LMG knew about was Honey hijacking affiliate revenue trackers.
Source on what LMG as a company knew:
We ended the partnership with Honey due to the way their service interacted with affiliate links. Essentially, if someone clicked on a affiliate link (For example, one of ours below in the video description on YouTube), and then if they “use honey” and search for a deal, Honey will override that tracking links even if they don’t find you a deal.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1415146-weekly-sponsorship-suggestioncomplaint-thread-feb-28-2022/
Call me when GN explains how having an engineer sent by an incumbent monopoly holder provide exclusive content right before a massive launch is not a massive conflict of interest.
I too would ditch low input advertisers like NZXT for clout if I was making the same money GN makes from NVIDIA alone.
From its inception, GN has been covering for EVGA and for NVIDIA. He’s the origin of the story “it’s user error” when it’s obvious for anyone to see it was a design fault (including the consortia that published the specs and revised the 12V-2x6 connector because it was a shit connector).
It’s easy to be strong vs small companies when one has the backing of one of the wealthiest companies on earth. Let Steve publish the contract he has with NVIDIA if he’s so keen on ethics and transparency.
Till then, it’s just a competitor throw shade at another competitor for the sake of clout and audience. They’re both the same marketing arms of technology companies. Note that Linus is one the bigger YT advertisers for AMD and both companies are just releasing a new gen…
After reading that article I can say that Linus is even bigger POS than I thought he was.
Holy shit it has a table of contents
After skimming the comments I can confidently say there are 4 types of people here: people who hate LTT, people who hate GN, people who don’t know what plagiarism is and me. Best course of action is to just move on to the post. The second best is getting the popcorn ready before diving in, you’ll feel like you’re back on reddit.
Thank you for saving me from a potential headache. Maybe I’ll come back later with a rum and coke.
Just finished reading. In summary: everyone loses here.
Linus made some silly but understandable mistakes, had some very poor word choices in private communications, and got Steve on the defensive by publicly mentioning he didn’t want to sue but implied he could. LMG is also (in the youtube world) a large company and is likely always working on process improvements, and the improvement Steve seems to want to happen that they are definitely lacking in, is to update old content with corrections or omissions.
Steve poorly or never communicated what he thought were satisfactory resolutions to past comments or incidents and is upset that those resolutions didn’t happen, and is only escalating the situation further by softly threatening legal action, while also hinting that they have way more evidence they are just conveniently leaving out despite their current evidence being mostly empty (specifically receipts 1 and 2).
They both run very different channels with different focuses and staff sizes and production values, and each has made mistakes. None of this spat should have been public, but it seems both parties are just bad at communicating with one another and it has only escalated due to LMG actually publicly responding to public allegations by GN.
If I had to declare a winner so far, Steve is looking worse for wear to me given the poor examples provided as receipts and the continued threat of legal escalation, but again - everyone loses here. Everyone looks worse and this should have been handled privately. Maybe LMG should appoint someone other than Linus to handle fellow media contacts, because it doesn’t seem like he’s the best for that job.
Steve poorly or never communicated what he thought were satisfactory resolutions to past comments or incidents and is upset that those resolutions didn’t happen.
Steve very clearly says he would be happy with being attributed in a pinned comment on the video in question. Linus agreed to do that, then… didn’t do that. Steve is justified in being upset with the lack of action here, he isn’t Linus’s dad, he shouldn’t have to ask more than once for such a simple request.
and is only escalating the situation further by softly threatening legal action
If someone with as much money as LMG threatens legal action against you, it’s prudent to lawyer up and prepare a case/countersuit.
while also hinting that they have way more evidence they are just conveniently leaving out
Because when you’re preparing a legal case, it’s generally a good idea to not give your opponents all the materials you’re building your case with.
despite their current evidence being mostly empty (specifically receipts 1 and 2)
How are those examples empty? They may not be very extreme examples, but they clearly illustrate the type of behavior GN is claiming LMG engages in.
None of this spat should have been public
I can agree with you there.
If I had to declare a winner so far, Steve is looking worse for wear
Lol you lost me again
Everyone looks worse and this should have been handled privately. Maybe LMG should appoint someone other than Linus to handle fellow media contacts, because it doesn’t seem like he’s the best for that job.
Motherfucker pulled me right back in lmao
At least to respond to the first segment here, the pinned comment on the VOD does attribute their GN’s reporting for the segment. It does exactly what Linus said he would do in communication with Steve.
Does the pinned comment do a great job? Absolutely not, but it does what Steve agreed to, and he should have spoken up sooner if he didn’t like it.
They didn’t attribute on the clips channel cut, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the result of poor internal communication at LMG (likely by Linus since he likely handled the request on the VOD) to remember to include that attribution in that upload. Again, it would have been good if Steve let them know about it and asked for them to be more careful in the future. Its hard for a large group of people to be organized in that way and reminders are helpful. To bring it up years later in a legal threat is poor form, even if he is technically in the right.
To add onto my last comment though, I like watching the content from both of these creators and will continue to do so. My interpretation is neither is evil nor bad, but that there has been a series of poor communication and differing standards and expectations between them.
LTT needs to treat Linus like SpaceX treats Musk.
built a wall of yesmen around him to agree to everything he says, and executes none of it.
We also allege that there were derogatory comments made by Linus Sebastian in a conversation with Steve Burke on a private phone call on August 31, 2021 at 7:31 PM Eastern lasting 9m 43s, where Sebastian referred to Burke as being “less autistic than you used to be;” however, with no recording of said call, this can only be alleged and there is no additional evidence to provide.
Well that’s pretty fucked up
Yeah for someone who is not close friends, making remarks like that is not a joke. That’s fucked
I have a person online I used to consider a friend that made similar commentary once.
Hilarious too cause he has a physical disability. So you’d think he’d have compassion but nope!
Linus is just insufferable. Life has been great with his channels blocked for years and not paying a cent of attention to him. Everyone should try it.
Yeah; I only ever see his content when the drama spills into other channels now.
I miss the days of small-time LTT doing silly projects like whole-room water cooling. :/
Same. I feel like once Luke started taking more of a back seat content-wise and letting Linus get in front of the camera by himself more is when things started going downhill
I have a funny feeling Luke was the only one willing to talk at Linus behind the scenes to control some of Linus’s worse impulses… and once Luke was gone and having to focus on float plane…
To me LLT is basically best when it is somewhat similar to old Top Gear, where they do silly projects (which increased in scope with the companies growth).
For actual reviews on the other hand I’d never really trust them and would always look to other sources like GN or Hardware Unboxed (who e.g. seem to do great monitor reviews) for example.
But I’ve also scaled back watching the channel to maybe looking at it once or twice in the last year.
why is there 0 response on the honey and billet labs thing, which is part of that same wan show? what’s with this half done response, why not show all the receipts? and also, why does he bring up a threat of legal action when there was no actual threat of legal action if you see that wan show?
this is such a disappointment, I’m apparently meant to watch as these two adults constantly miscommunicate, misunderstand and ignore half of what the other has said online, and stretch the back and forth even longer than it needs to. This will take like 5 wan shows and gn articles to conclude properly
Yeah I’ve come to the conclusion that anyone whose main job is creating “content” is a piece of shit.
But some have Jesusier hair than others, and as such my own allegiance has been destined without say.
Edit: FR the deciding factor was the 70 dollar screwdriver along with the “trust me bro” warranty. He’s a scumbag. His “media group” primarily produces entertainment clips with no value. I get some informative content from GN in comparison.
Every warranty is a “trust me bro” warranty, that was his point from the start. Have you ever actually read warranty terms?
Every warranty is a “trust me bro” warranty
Try that shit here in Brazil and your company is paying some fines you could not have dreamed of. And guess what, the customer would get their warranty regardless of your desire.
Again I ask you, have you ever read warranty terms?
Notice how I said brazilian law, yet you’re pretending the logic in your country would apply.
A company could write any warranty terms they wanted - hell, they could write a clause claiming “I hate laws and I’m willingly subjecting myself to the terms of this manufacturer, no takesies-backsies” and guess what, I’d still be protected by the lawful warranty process.
A company can set their own terms for additional warranties they might want to offer as part of their marketing, with some restrictions still. But for the legal minimum? No warranty terms in the world could violate them.
If Brazilian law offers such good consumer protections by default, then that just further proves the point that a written policy isn’t necessary
You’re missing the point. Warranties as written by the company are not legally binding, plus they all claim the company has final say on it. So having that paper or not is meaningless, even if the country has good customer law you get those benefits regardless of the company giving you a paper. So even then at the end of the day any warranty is a “trust me bro”, that being said a paper makes the trust be easier to place.
"Guys guys guys, you should totally know those legally binding warranty documents are just as bullshit as a guy on youtube saying just trust me bro. its all the same. Just trust me on it, bro "
They’re all explicitly written in legalese to give the manufacturer final say as to whether to honour it. You should really read one someday.
And different countries have different terms. At some point it becomes good will by thr conpany to fulfill the promise.
It’s like none of them have seen Tommy Boy.
The legal action is, i think, because linus is basically dragging them through some deep mud by saying he is wrong and what he does are lies. Now i know gn kinda started it by mentioning them in the honey lawsuit video, and they shouldnt have, not like how they did ( but they were right that linus should have spoken up in 2017 because they knew what was going on ).
I also suspect there is no reaction on the honey and biletlabs thing because there is nothing new to add. We know linus knew but kept his mouth shut about it and why, and we know ltt’s internal workings fucked up everything about the biletlabs prototype (the video, the mislabeling of item, the auction, … ).
This whole thing is a shitfest and both parties need to calm the fuck down, which a threat at legal action might force them to do so.
My opinion is that linus (again) shouldve kept his mouth shut about how “his head wouldve rolled if he spoke about honey” because that was wrong of him. Gn shouldnt have made the low punch towards ltt after that which caused linus to (again) not shut up and make things worse.
Now i know gn kinda started it by mentioning them in the honey lawsuit video, and they shouldnt have, not like how they did ( but they were right that linus should have spoken up in 2017 because they knew what was going on ).
Which was only mentioned because the original investigator, MegaLag, also mentioned LTT as part of the investigation into honey.
Funny how people are rather obessive over ignoring this crucial point, while trying to make Steve seem obsessed with Linus/LTT.
Oh i know, i saw megalag’s video before it blew up and ltt was indeed already in some bad spot because of it. Doesnt mean they (gn) should have gone with a low blow of showing the wan show bit and responding to it as they did.
That said, i agree with the core of their problem though. Gn are doing the right thing in the end and linus shouldve done so too back then.
spoken up in 2017 because they knew what was going on ).
Wasnt LTT also informed by other peers? Don’t remember much of any coverage by any other outlet.
And I think Linus even said that the information went around in the creator circles but didnt reach viewership.
Like most internet beefs I’m guessing the truth lands somewhere in the middle.
Though as someone only sorta paying attention and I don’t really care what happens I will say that Linus appears to be more upfront about his mistakes and continuing to own up to them as they come up. Not like he can own up for things that either never happened or he doesn’t remember happening. He is still a human.
GN comes across more like the jealous angry kid that lashes out over text messages because they didnt get what they wanted. I can’t shake the feeling that the “sudden” turn of GN against Linus has something to do with something else entirely that none of us even know about… Yet.
All that being said I have always liked Luke the most and I stopped watching LTT stuff quite a bit when Luke left. I still watch WAN because I find the information and entertainment combination the perfect background audio while I’m tinkering or whatever. I think both the GN and LTT videos generally both suck these days. GN just stands there with some paper in his hands and word vomits at the camera. Linus reminds me of the annoying orange at times.
You are prolly right about some hidden issue here but at least GN does proper journalism and Linus is just does content IMHO
So I favour GN until Steve is properly discredited
What GN does is not proper journalism. It’s sensationalist bullshit. Please stop demeaning actual journalists.
What para social relationships do to a MF lol
Yep.
GN brings the receipts and can back up any claim they make.
Linus just bitches and moans while being called out on his legitimately bad behavior/thievery/etc,… and hes used to being able to just lean into his cult, that laps up everything he says, and use them to pressure any smaller critic into silence… Don’t work with GN though, lol.
Man, idk about any of that. The only thing I can say is too far is the alleged autism comment, but there’s no proof, just his word from 4.5 years ago
The WAN show is news commentary, that sometimes doesn’t accurately attribute. That’s reason not to watch, but not for claims of plagiarism or stealing.
And I rarely watch anything from LMG, except for specific videos that are exactly what I’m looking for. I’m not a follower of theirs, but just taking GN word as gospel seems just as dumb
The WAN show is news commentary, that sometimes doesn’t accurately attribute. That’s reason not to watch, but not for claims of plagiarism or stealing.
Commentary is
“And heres a news article from Gamers Nexus insert brief summary of story, brief back and fort, comments and opinions about it. And if you want more info, follow up with the original article at the link below”
And I rarely watch anything from LMG, except for specific videos that are exactly what I’m looking for. I’m not a follower of theirs, but just taking GN word as gospel seems just as dumb
There are literally evidence supported facts, and the fact that you are trying to handwave it away as dumb and as fools taking random empty words as gospel, Kinda really reveals the actual hand you’re trying to play here, and says a lot more about you than anything else.
Informing the subject of an investigation and requesting comment to the allegations is considered proper journalism. Otherwise it comes off more as an attack.
Wild to go, “That claim about our journalistic integrity is wrong! We’re actually far MORE irresponsible than you thought!” And think it’s a gotcha
deleted by creator
I was similar but stopped watching the wan show when every episode became a product showcase for their merch. Real shame, I feel Luke’s a weight keeping Linus somewhat grounded.
Luke is a relatively sane normal person. Linus is like the tasmanian devil. If Luke and Linuses wife weren’t around who knows how canceled he would already have been lol.
It’s really funny how in Linus’s worst WAN show moments Luke just silently sits there doing nothing, every once in a while making a small attempt to prevent the imminent train wreck then leaving Linus to crash the train when it becomes obvious he’s intent on doing so. Honestly they should probably stop doing the WAN show given how many times it’s been WAN show clips that got them in hot water
I mean nothing super serious had come of it. The “hard R” incident was the funniest fucking thing ever. Luke’s face was one of pure panic as he thought everything was blowing up right in his face.
At this stage, Linus Media Group and GamersNexus have both made statements which are extremely serious. This is far beyond presenting a front of friendliness, and I am respectfully requesting that Linus Sebastian drops that facade publicly, as well as ceases the repeated personal emails requesting as much, as it is personally making me extremely uncomfortable.
Uh I’m sorry what the fuck
You’d think Linus would know better than to ask GN for receipts.
How many times do we need to teach you this lesson, old man?!?
He genuinely believes that he’s above all of that now, or almost too successful to fail. If the last huge controversy hasn’t put a dent into his cult of personality, not too many other things will
I just checked out r/pcmasterrace and Linus might be right then. Most people over there seem to be parroting Linus excuses and down voting anyone who says otherwise.
I dunno. I haven’t watched another episode since I heard that girl’s story about sexual harassment and toxic culture while working there.
I’m team Suop. Linus is a cunt.
Yeah he seems like a real dick.
I stopped long before then because the content had turned into garbage. There’s too many tech content creators out there to watch his company’s click bait crap.
If I hadn’t already, I would have stopped then though.
Those allegations were proven to be false by an independent third-party investigation
No, it found no evidence one way or the other. It also found that LMG didn’t ignore things and followed their policies, which seems to imply something was being reported. They certainly presented it as absolving them while threatening a lawsuit, but it didn’t prove anything.
You are a drop in the bucket. LTT is at 16 million subs to GN’s 2.5 million. That story was investigated by a third party with no wrong doing found. LTT isn’t going anywhere.
I don’t care.
Ok, thanks for letting me know?
I blocked all their channels on YouTube after that too.
Same! I stopped watching any of his company’s content
I’ve unsubbed from all but the main channel a while before that, but this was the last drop in the ocean too. Even if half of the accusations were false, they way how their response was completely soulless, and full of dumb jokes, was unheard of
Never heard this do you have a link or something?
I had read Madison Reeve’s post somewhere but it was in Twitter I think. I can’t access it anymore without an account it seems. So here’s a couple it articles.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/linus-tech-tips-youtube-controversy-1.6940087
Thanks I actually started searching myself too and found this https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html
Edit I also found this
Thanks for providing these links.
Quote from Madison: I purposefully cut my leg open so badly I would have to go to the ER to get it stapled back together. It was genuinely the only way in my mind to take a day off without being harassed for a reason why.
I think I would leave a crappy job way earlier than even considering commiting self harm.
I responded elsewhere in this thread with more commentary and I’m also not done reading yet, but how is receipt 1 anything at all? It seems both parties closed that email chain satisfied with the resolution outlined by Linus. If GN was upset with the resolution, maybe they should have said something?
Edit after further reading: How is receipt 2 anything at all either? Steve literally says in the opening of his email that the information is intended to be useful for future attempts. If he wanted LMG to edit old videos or provide extra detailed information then maybe he should have asked?
Receipt 3 is rough for Linus though, he has to do better when it comes to communicating. Not only with the choice of language but when it comes to understanding the the intent and body of a message before responding himself (the latter not too surprising given his history of wan show live responses to misunderstood chat messages).
Man we need new tech reviewers that don’t make drama by talking past each other in pedantic ways to no ones benefit and go back to talking to the audience and in simple terms so that new people can find an in to join the community.
This is pathetic. I’m so tired of both massive corporate Linus and Gamer’s Nexus.
How is gamers Nexus corporate? Genuinely asking because I find their coverage refreshingly pro-consumer
Corporate was meant to be solely attached to Linus not Gamer’s Nexus. I just find their coverage to be not approachable and not consumer friendly. They often over pedantic into the weeds and don’t even properly talk about the massive tables they casually throw up on the screen.
I’m sorry if my adjective was misattributed to GN
Weird, I’m a complete idiot and I have no problem getting enough from their review videos to understand basics and make informed decisions.
You can learn addition from reading an algebra textbook too. Doesn’t make it efficient or welcoming to most.
Any shit thrown at LMG is good news to me, they deserve it after how dirty they treated Madison back then. They never properly addressed that either in the eyes of the audience…
What happened there?
I don’t have chance to dig all the details right now but here’s the stuff
Madison/Suop is a small influencer, who at one point a few years back got hired by LMG. It didn’t last long and she stopped appearing in videos, and then wasn’t ever mentioned again by LMG.
People eventually suspected she wrote this anonymous Glassdoor review on 2022 and had quit.
Now when the first GN video on LMG came out, people pressured her to tell more about why she quit, and she came out with full details. . TLDR there was lots of bullying, harassment, sexist environment, unreasonable work pressure, etc.
Then LMG promised to investigate this whole thing and provide results. Fast forward a few months they posted these findings.
The keywords here is “unsubstantiated, no evidence, unfounded”, etc. It’s a very vague response and LMG can’t say a clear yes or no because there was no evidence. Many of the abuse was verbal and not recorded anywhere, and because it had happened a few years back it could have been lost or removed…
So we as the audience are left with almost as much ambiguity as when this all started… If you compare both sides you can see why I still side with Madison’s story:
-
Reasons to believe Madison
- She has gained nothing from this other than more harassment by rabid fans
- We have individual vs a business with millions of dollars and an army of parasocial basement dwellers
- She has kept a very consistent story through many years
- Her claims have not been disproven
- There’s a few tweets from other employees, and a leaked recording of harassment at LMG back when Madison quit, the only pieces of hard evidence are in her favor
-
Reasons to believe LMG
- You think linus is your friend
- You think the “not substantiated” equals “no”. I could go burn a house, but if I make it happen like an accident arson won’t be substantiated…
-
