There’s also notable vitality in FOSS big data tools from China (Apache Doris, Kylin, Kyuubi etc.) that reminds of Hadoop in the USA 15 years ago while the USA data engineering now mostly turned to closed source cloud solutions.
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We’re Fiscally RESPOSIBLE!
The Chinese model has chain of thought that u can see. The model when asked to talk about chinas atrocities will go through a chain of though process outlining all the atrocities then conclude its not allowed to tell u. Cool technology tho I’m just waiting for a dolphin fine tuning.
I’ve been playing around with the offline version of the model. It’s interesting, but I think we’ll have to wait for people to tinker with the open source base for awhile before we get something really great.
Yeah all the info is there and something switches it over to the generic response.
So fucked.
If you run it locally, there’s no filtering on the outputs. I asked it what happened in 1989 and it jumped straight into explaining the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
I’ve seen some censoring on the 8b Llama variant, but it is hit and miss. Can’t wait till a decensored fine tuning.
That contradicts this experience:
https://sherwood.news/tech/a-free-powerful-chinese-ai-model-just-dropped-but-dont-ask-it-about/
I’ve been running the llama based and qwen based local versions, and they will talk openly about tiananmen square. I haven’t tried all the other versions available.
The article you linked starts by talking about their online hosted version, which is censored. They later say that the local models are also somewhat censored, but I haven’t experienced that at all. My experience is that the local models don’t have any CCP-specific censorship (they still won’t talk about how to build a bomb/etc, but no issues with 1989/Tiananmen/Winnie the Pooh/Taiwan/etc).
Edit: so I reran the “what happened in 1989” prompt a few times in the llama model, and it actually did refuse to talk on it once, just saying it was sensitive. It seemed like if I asked any other questions before that prompt it would always answer, but if that was the very first prompt in a conversation it would sometimes refuse. The longer a conversation had been going before I asked, the more explicit the bot is about how many people were killed and details like that. Pretty strange.
Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing
I’m using the 8b model and it’s having no problem telling me about China’s atrocities.
“Earlier this week, DeepSeek unveiled its R1 model, which, the startup claims, meets, if not exceeds, performance from OpenAI’s o1 model released last year. (o1 is designed to tackle reasoning and math problems.)” — Oh, so China built their for math and we built ours for garbage. Interesting approach.
Building garbage and convincing people it is absolutely necessary to pay someone for it is the American way.
Almost as if one culture values education and actual problem solving while the other values spectical and sleight of hand.
China has a huge advantage in AI models because of how lax they are on intellectual property rights. US companies are fighting over API licensing costs, while china is just going to scrape everything and use it for free.
The US has a lead now, but I don’t think they can maintain it without giving up on ethical training. Then again it may not matter if the US models are ethical if everyone will eventually just uses the superior unethically trained chinese models instead.
The US companies already scraped the data while they could. If anything, data scraping is far far more difficult now for everyone due to technical reasons.
Most of the new models are trained on synthetic data or higher quality of data or with RLHF. The reason deepseek is able to perform is likely because LLMs are very very new things, there are many low hanging fruits. Its no longer just about the data we already hit that limit for quite some time.
China has a huge advantage in AI models because of how lax they are on intellectual property rights. US companies are fighting over API licensing costs, while china is just going to scrape everything and use it for free.
lolwat
did corporate provide you with these talking points?
I mean, they are right. Asside the question of whether we can even make meaningfully better models by just using LLMs and more data and what the future of AI will look like, and whether it’s ethical or not to steal the data, it is quite possible that OpenAI and the like will get into legal trouble because of the methods they use for acquiring data, but Chinese companies won’t have to worry about that. If more data = better models then China has an obvious advantage.
I doubt any of these US government and oligarch backed companies are gonna get any trouble. They essentially robbed the commons and got away with it. But sure Sam Altman has to pay spezz some money for my shitposts… the horror, what a hurdle!
Quickly give them more taxpayer money so they can compete with china!
OpenAI and the like aren’t going to get into trouble anytime soon. They already provide their latest tech to US gov and military. OpenAI is like a goose that laid a golden egg, they need to fuck up really really badly to face any consequences.
most of that ‘hundreds of billions’ isn’t going to go towards the tech or infrastructure, it’s gonna go to people. a very small number of specific individuals.
Well, I suspect that most of the money will be used to acquire or costume natural resources, like water and power.
Individuals become enriched because their share holdings are worth more.
correct, US taxpayer is being fleeced so some parasites can live their best lives.
Project Stargate is funded via private investment, the US hasn’t pledged any money
who is providing interest free loans so that microshit can have electric for their data centers?
Sure but a 68.4 million tax break is nothing compared to the hundreds of billions pledged privately
hundreds of billions pledged privately
I trust u bro 🤡
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stargate_Project
??? 500 billion pledged privately
I trust these fake news 🤡
“OpenAI, SoftBank, Oracle to invest $500 bln in AI, Trump says”. Reuters. Retrieved January 22, 2025. Jacobs, Jennifer (January 21, 2025). “Trump announces up to $500 billion in private sector AI infrastructure investment - CBS News”. www.cbsnews.com. Retrieved January 21, 2025. Zakrzewski, Cat; De Vynck, Gerrit; Arnsdorf, Isaac; O’Donovan, Caroline (January 24, 2025). “OpenAI and other tech titans worked on Stargate deal months before Trump won”. The Washington Post. Habeshian, Sareen (January 21, 2025). “Trump announces billions in private sector AI investment”. Axios. Retrieved January 21, 2025. Hayden, Erik (January 22, 2025). “Project Stargate: Trump Plots With Larry Ellison, Sam Altman On $500B AI Initiative”. The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved January 24, 2025. Ashworth-Hayes, Sam (January 23, 2025). “America’s $500bn Manhattan project is an effort to make humanity obsolete”. The Telegraph. ISSN 0307-1235. Retrieved January 26, 2025. “Trump’s $500B AI plan is ‘slap’ in the face for Europe”. Politico. January 22, 2025. Retrieved January 26, 2025. Franzen, Carl (January 22, 2025). “OpenAI Stargate is a $500B bet: America’s AI Manhattan Project or costly dead end?”. VentureBeat. Retrieved January 26, 2025. “Trump tech agenda begins with $500B private AI plan and cuts to regulation”. The Washington Post. January 21, 2025. Gedeon, Joseph (January 21, 2025). “Trump unveils $500bn joint AI venture between OpenAI, Oracle, and SoftBank”. The Guardian. Retrieved January 21, 2025. Klee, Miles (January 24, 2025). “Anti-Vax Conspiracy Theorists Freak Out Over Trump’s $500 Billion AI Plan”. RollingStone. Retrieved January 24, 2025. “Trump Announces Project Stargate, a Massive New Investment in AI”. Inc.com. January 21, 2025. Retrieved January 21, 2025. Schleifer, Theodore; Kang, Cecilia (January 22, 2024). “Musk Casts Doubt on Trump’s $100 Billion A.I. Announcement”. New York Times. Retrieved January 22, 2024. Bloomberg Television (January 22, 2025). Arm CEO Says Trump AI Pact Has Widespread Support. Retrieved January 23, 2025 – via YouTube. Mascarenhas, Natasha; Efrati, Amir (January 23, 2025). “OpenAI, SoftBank Each Commit $19 Billion to Stargate Data Center Venture”. The Information. Chan, Edwin (January 23, 2025). “SoftBank, OpenAI Plan $19 Billion Each for Stargate, Information Reports”. Bloomberg News. Hammond, George; Kinder, Tabby; Murghia, Madhumita (January 23, 2025). “Stargate artificial intelligence project to exclusively serve OpenAI”. Financial Times. Robison, Kylie (January 21, 2025). “Microsoft is letting OpenAI get its own AI compute now”. The Verge. “Microsoft and OpenAI Plot $100 Billion Stargate AI Supercomputer”. The Information. Retrieved January 22, 2025. Comment, Sebastian Moss (January 21, 2025). “OpenAI announces ‘The Stargate Project’: $500bn over four years on AI infrastructure”. www.datacenterdynamics.com. Retrieved January 21, 2025. Seitz, Patrick (January 22, 2025). “Nvidia Stock Rallies As Chipmaker Named To Stargate AI Venture”. Investor’s Business Daily. Retrieved January 23, 2025.
Incorrect. They can already do that without more money.
But then none of them will get to claim that he’s the first trillionaire.
correct.
hell, i could live my ‘best’ life off of musk’s ‘sofa cushion’ money:
$2.5m is more than enough for me to live on just using investment proceeds–in perpetuity.
$2.5m to him (with ~ $436b) is the equivalent of fifty-seven cents to someone with $100k (in the bank, investments, retirement, home equity, etc). now, i don’t have $100k, not even close. just using it as an example here. my equivalent would be more like half a cent.
They’re mentally ill IMO. Like that old person hoarding vacuum cleaners, diapers, dogfood, etc.
The most infuriating thing is that for them it’s just a number, for society it stifles innovation and wellbeing.
well I mean the USA’s president is a scammer so I am not surprised he is involved in stuff where scammers are abundant nowadays like crypto and AI
“Necessity is the mother of invention.”
What you’re likely seeing here is innovation similar to the early tech sector. The hardware limitation (no Nvidia chips) means different (usually more complex) solutions are needed.
These solutions usually require a deep understanding of a specific area of mathematics, and expertise in coding. The person making it normally has to be heavily invested, since it still eats a lot of hours.
I often joke, the mathematician who finds a faster algorithm for matrix operations is sitting on a billion dollar idea.
And that mathematician won’t see the profits for that faster algorithm and you will never hear their name - shits been happening in tech for decades
As a mathematician who has worked in tech, this I am very much aware of XD
The US is getting owned by China left and right, but sure lets focus on abusing minorities, women, LGBTQ+, and the poor instead of investing on actually making America great. Whatever.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored [gay, trans, Hispanic, etc ] man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
LBJ
Maybe they try to imitate china on those topics?
It is beautiful how the US is never short on cash for state aid to enrich some owners.
But god forbid plebs ask for a good train, that’s communism!
Socialism for giant corporations: 😎🦅🇺🇸
Socialism for common people: 😡🚫🤷♂️
Socialism for giant corporations: Freedumb™️
Socialism for common people: communism, thus the devil!
Explain how good trains will help our precious CEOs?
Unless you mean a private train line paid with government funds. Now we’re talking!
Well taken care citizens are more productive (yet can revolt better) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
Putting a CEO on a train with unwashed pedons is a crime against humanity.
Deepseek api is down today - probably a result of their viral success recently…
I heard they are under ddos attack.
Late stage capitalism has now created mega corporations that no longer profit off their innovation and quality, but merely off manipulation and exploitation of their mind-boggling amounts of capital. They now must crush all competition using authoritarian means because competition is now their biggest weakness.
Capitalism is well and truely dead, and corporations and conservatives are the ones who killed it. They want to remove the ladder of success that got them there.
Capitalism has never been healthier. This IS Capitalism, not an anomaly.
You must not have read the wealth of nations
Capitalism, instead of Adam Smith definition, becomes supremacy of capital. Corporatism is actually more prominent than “shareholder rights/supremacy”. At any rate, Adam Smith said free markets where fair markets that resulted in perfect competition. Free competition sucks for oligarchs, because corrupt markets are more profitable.
I very much see what is happening in the US as the groundwork for them becoming an authoritarian state just like China and Russia. They still have “capitalism” and “democracy” too!
My only hope is that the people of the US realize what is happening before it’s too late, and that the rest of the world can hold out in the mean time.
Can’t have a corporate oligarchy without capitalism.
Guys listen up, every deepseek model comes with a dedicated chinese spy, who will log all your data and send it back to CCP who will use it to plot the destruction of the western civilization.
Instead we should use Freedom© models from OpenAI (side note if deepseek is so “open” how come they don’t have open in their name huh?) even if OpenAI don’t show their reasoning, they only do this cuz they want to protect us and they stand for our values.
They cost 100x more only because they are fighting for our Freedom and Freedom doesn’t come cheap, Freedom doesn’t have a price, Freedom requires our sacrifice.
First paragraph is something I believe some people will say unironically.
Well, that first paragraph is likely to be unironically very close to the truth.
use it to plot the destruction of the western civilization
Peaks around at the state of Western Civilization
Boots up another copy of DeepSeek
I’m oll for the destruction / reorganisation of Western civilization but not at the hands of the Chinese because I don’t think they’ll do much to improve things.
Father-in-law is a die-hard Libertarian. Loves Trump shutting down all the civilian bureaucracies. Can’t understand why college kids are so Woke and anti-Semetic. Thinks public school is a racket and should be abolished. Etc, etc.
He visited Hong Kong, Beijing, and Huaibei recently. Absolutely flabbergasted. Could not understand how clean, safe, and well-managed these cities had become. His biggest complaint was how dismissive they were of tourism - you could get by in English, there was plenty of stuff to visit and do, but everything was very clearly tailored towards the convenience of the locals first and foremost.
If that’s the future “the hands of the Chinese” have to offer, you’re going to have a very hard time convincing even the most far-right Americans to turn it down once its in easy reach. Just a few months ago, we saw the entire liberal government tossed to the wayside because of the price of eggs.
Freedom costs a buck oh five.
every deepseek model comes with a dedicated chinese spy, who will log all your data and send it back to CCP who will use it to plot the destruction of the western civilization
there’s no need, western civilization is collapsing by itself
Please!!! Come and take your money!
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Of course it’s faster & cheaper when it’s being censored & can’t access half of human history because the fucking ccp finds it offensive.
The model itself is probably not censored. The censorship comes on top. Preliminary tests already show how this can be circumvented.
If censorship would make it cheaper then surely it wouldn’t be that much cheaper than OpenAI. Different things are being censored and blocked but surely, your suggestion is a bit silly.
Your comment is a bit silly. The CCP engages in currency manipulation amongst other nefarious actions to prop up its interests. It was likely created from stolen data & heavily propped up by the government, just like various other projects that were supposedly Chinese “innovations” but looks remarkably like their western competitors.
The CCP engages in currency manipulation amongst other nefarious actions to prop up its interests.
Yeah? So does the US. Didn’t make OpenAI cheaper, did it?
It was likely created from stolen data
Just like ChatGPT was created with stolen content.
heavily propped up by the government
Still only 6 million. Keep coping tho lol
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Oof why did that trigger you so much? Don’t like being proven wrong huh? Come on, learning is fun!
It’s “though” learn to spell
Though argument you got there lmao
“Heh, that’s a cool argument you made but sadly you also made a MINOR SPELLING MISTAKE.”
