It’s mutually consensual and beneficial, and they don’t walk away with half your shit when things go south.
Hexbear, always obnoxious.
Just block and move along I don’t have a block list till hexbear started showing up
Genuine question, what the fuck even is that instance? For just like the past few days, every one of the absolute dumbest fucking comments I’ve seen has been from there. Is it just like a brigading instance or something?
It’s an instance for teenagers who became Marxist-Leninists because they wanted to have edgy political views but have slightly too much empathy to be a Nazi.
I think a good chunk of them are CCP LLM bots.
Does this mean you don’t agree? I’m confused.
I don’t see a problem with it as long as no trafficking is involved.
I agree with this. I have found that most women do not however. It has been a great trouble for me, to talk about, when trying to find a new partner.
They don’t want to date a man who is regularly going to sex workers?
Yeah I’m not sure why or how this would be a topic of conversation when, yknow, dating women.
@[email protected] What have you been telling these women?
Do you make use of the sex workers while in the relationship with the new partner?
Absolutely not
Then why speak of it?
I don’t talk about previous sexual partners with new ones.
For the purpose of disclosure. I just cant live with myself if I do not tell prospective partners when they ask. I know there is a difference between avoidance and lying, however, I value honesty. Not implying that you are not or should thinknas I do
Last year I shit myself while trying to open my door and get to the bathroom.
I dropped my keys while I was trying to unlock the door and ended up with shit in my shoes that I had to throw away.
I never bring that up on dates.
That’s a third date story
What an amecdote. Thank you for lightening my mind lol
This story made my panties wet.
I get your point, but I think that’s a bit of a false equivalence. You don’t tell others of stuff like this likely because it’s embarrassing, but what if someone isn’t embarrassed of using sex services? Is it really the same thing then?
You have an over-sharing problem.
I can’t agree. I think people should have a friendship as strong as their romance.
The fact that you need to “disclose” this makes it sound like you yourself see an issue with it
Is it typical to give a whole run-down of your sexual history when dating? Like, I’ve mentioned previous encounters or exes when it comes up, but rarely near the beginning of the dating process. In my experience people tend to not have those discussions. Not because it’s bad but because it doesn’t matter. When I meet a new woman and start seeing them, I don’t need to hear about or care about their past relationships unless it’s something they feel they want to share for whatever reason.
It sounds like you don’t think sex work is immoral, so I wouldn’t bring it up unless it’s something that would actually affect your current relationship. If sex is casual enough to commodify then it’s not something that would be brought up when getting to know someone. Do you also give them a run-down of every meal you’ve ever bought at restaurants?
OP’s out there on first dates asking if they have a problem with him doing it…
I can’t imagine women are bringing it up
Not necessarily first dates. I just answer truthfully when the topic comes up. I don’t want to have it be a problem further down the line
I just answer truthfully when the topic comes up
It’s just really hard to believe a women asks if you’ve had sex with a sex worker…
Most people don’t ask for numbers, let alone details.
You should definitely bring this up as often as possible. Enjoying coerced intimacy is totally well adjusted behavior.
Why do you hate sex workers?
real big-brain take
Since it’s safe to assume you don’t talk to people in real life, here’s a mass of “reviews” of sex workers. People who buy sex are disgusting.
Says the person with “McCainRBGcreampie” as a username.
I don’t get it
Big shocker there…
Then they are not worth your time
This is pretty surprising to me. In my experience (as a woman myself) women are much more likely than men to be vocally supportive of treating sex work like any other service and of breaking the taboo of offering or receiving those services.
I actually can’t think of any woman in my life who would judge someone negatively for seeing a sex worker (assuming full consent from all involved parties including partners). Most men I know would similarly have no issue with it, but a handful would read it as not being able to get laid and see that as something negative.
My social circle isn’t representative of the general population, but I’m still surprised to hear your experience is dramatically different. I wonder if the way the conversations are going make the issue more about consent, cheating, or other non-sex-work-specific ethical questions.
I think more women would be understanding to men paying for sex than men would be to women paying for it.
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Ok but also, I’ve dated sex workers and that’s why I’m a bit yeeshy around people who hire them until I know they’re cool. I’ve heard stories.
Like there’s absolutely nothing wrong with hiring a sex worker. There are plenty of good reasons to do so. There are things where it’s better to hire a sex worker than to ask for from a hookup. And despite all of that, it’s not a trait that leaves one in the best company. Honestly, the best comparison I can think of is being a lawyer.
People supporting sex work being legal and the non-acceptance of people using sex workers in illegal/non consensual situations are congruous positions.
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mmmm gonna go out on a limb and say it’s most likely for the same reason he started this thread
I think the issue is the portrayal of the types of men who use such services in media. They’re usually not good people.
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What incredible acting, I felt like I was there
Yeah it should be legalized.
What people do with their bodies is their own choice.
So long as everyone involved consents sans coercion, I do not see why anyone else should care/be involved
Does getting paid still counts as “sans coercion” though ?
Is everything done in exchange for money coerced?
Do you really feel like you’re coercing a waitress when you tip?
Does waiting tables and having sex with strangers feel similar to you? These jobs aren’t comparable from a psychological standpoint. I never heard that it’s common for waiters to be substance users or have PTSD.
Weirdly enough, restaurant workers are some of the highest substance users group. A Google search on this subject is quite surprising.
It’s not even close to sex workers which have the highest amount of substance abuse among all professions.
This is an interesting analogy. I do get the sense that many waitresses and waiters hate their job, and do it because of lack of other options. However I do feel that by using their services and paying them, I’m helping them. They’ve made this choice, under a certain amount of coercion from the circumstances and system (which most of us suffer from to some degree, working because we have to), but my helping them get paid is helping them. I do find it important to be nice to them and treat them as real people, even moreso than people with whom my interaction is on a more equal footing.
However there is nuance here in matters of degree. I think I can tell when a place treats their staff well or shittily–it tends to slow in their attitude. I prefer not to patronize a place when I get that shitty vibe.
It’s interesting to think about how this translates to sex work. If I used such services, I would want to feel like the person I paid somewhat enjoyed her job.
Negotiating a price is not itself coercion.
I suppose it depends on how desperate someone is for money. I am in an industry where client relationships are important, but more money will not make my hard no a yes
Indeed, as I clarified under another comment
Tbh I know little about the topic and was under the (maybe wrong) impression than many sex workers are poor people that need to do it to survive. But then I guess the issue I was pointing is more about our capitalist society than about sex work
That I cannot say, and seeing as in the vast majority of the US it is illegal, all we have is supposition unfortunately
Labor as coerced selling of one’s body is an interesting view.
That’s literally all work in capitalism. You use your time and body to do things for other people in exchange for money. We’re all prostitutes, only a few of us have sex for it.
There’s a huge difference between picking up a streetwalker, going to a legal brothel, or answering a personal ad in places like Canada where it’s a grey area if it’s legal
Like, off the street there’s probably some coercion somewhere, legal brothel it’s less likely they’re forced to do it but it might still be trafficking but there’s likely at least some form of oversight, and personal ads are a total crapshoot. It might be someone who’s selective and just making some money, it might be someone that has to accept every offer.
When things arent 100% legal, some shady is statistically just going to happen. You can’t regulate an illegal business.
Tbh I know little about the topic and was under the (maybe wrong) impression than many sex workers are poor people that need to do it to survive. But then I guess the issue I was pointing is more about our capitalist society than about sex work
The thing is we can’t know because it’s illegal in most places.
There’s some who only take clients they’re attracted to anyways and manage to pull in a lot of money.
There’s some that if they dont make X amount of money a night, they’ll get beat.
Anyone that claims to know how much are in each group are pulling numbers out of their ass. And people that act like they’re all the same are usually using the services of people who are forced into it.
Not all sex work is equal ethically.
But generally speaking, the less legal it is, the worse they’re treated. Because they have no legal recourse if they’re mistreated
Also like, people work dangerous jobs where they DIE because they need to money to pay rent and buy food, so only caring about sex workers is kind of fucked up.
Sex work is the most dangerous job in the world. They have a higher number of victims of violence and PTSD than any other profession. For PTSD only war veterans have similar results.
Pretty sure truck driver is the most dangerous job in the world.
In Germany the majority (about 95 %) of sex workers are people from the poorest countries of EU. Because of the high demand and the amount of money you can make with brothels there is also an increase in trafficking from countries outside of the EU.
Regulated does not mean people weren’t pressured into it. Telling a young single mother from a poor country that most of her problems will vanish if she just works as a sex worker for a few years in Germany is legal and regulated. It’s not trafficking and not really coercion either. She will get a social security number, pay taxes, get health care, all that stuff she perhaps won’t get at home.
What do you think she will tell you if you ask her whether she is doing the job freely and if she wants to keep the job? Of course she will say yes.
But is it really just like any other job? The fact that sex workers in countries where it is regulated still suffer disproportionately from mental health problems, alcohol and drug abuse tells a different story.
All work is exloitation, sexual work is sexual exploitation. Its not exactly consent if the other option is being homeless or starving.
That’s trie if any work, as you’re saying. But then why would it be more of a problem with sex work than with any other work?
Do you feel like any other work is the same as sex work? For example does flippping burgers the same to you as having to have sex with a stranger?
What it is to me is different from what it should be. Why should it be different? You sell your body ability to provide a service.
The difference lies in the intimacy associated with sex. But then how different is it from therapy? It is physical intimacy. It is the only difference.
There is no more strain on your body than with many physical work, less actually than construction or many other work. There is no more strain on psychology than care works like therapy or nurses. Quite less actually.
The actual problem of sex work is exploitation: people are forced into this work, and this is extremely bad. This breaks a fundamental contract of liberalism. But it wouldn’t be as bad if it was legal and monitored.
Thus, the problem is Christian puritanism. Sex is bad in itself in this philosophy.
Ask yourself this question : why is a woman earning money on onlyfan a bad thing, but a man earning money surveying a beach in swimsuit is perfectly fine? Actually a woman can do this too!
It’s not a matter of how much skin you show or even how intimate you can be, otherwise massage or therapy wouldn’t be good. It is a matter of sex and how to control it.
Religion/Bible thumper made it more of a problem.
This is pretty much my view on people’s sexuality generally.
I don’t care who’s doing what to who as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.
Support prostitutes by means other than being a John. Do a Holden Caulfield if you like and pay for their time to just hang out, idk. The John is instinsically in a position of power by using money to be entitled to sex, and is part of the social violence of coercing desperate people into dangerous and frequently traumatizing* labor.
*look up ptsd rates
Also don’t forget how many of these women are already struggling with mental health issues.
In the USA, if you are on disability, you are effectively barred from saving money.
I know of plenty of disabled women who turn to sex work to be able to pay the bills since their meager disability check is not enough to effectively live off. It is all under the table so they essentially just don’t report the earnings.
So many of these women really don’t need the added awfulness of being a sex worker in their lives, but do it out of necessity of a broken system.
Disgusting. Better things to do with my life
I’ve got to get around to learning how to do this… it’s so much easier just to wank and move along with your day.
Disposable income and need for intimacy lol. Some things are not just about the sexual pleasure but fulfilling specific fetishes
I don’t see a problem with it but there’s definitely a stigma associated with it. (At least in the US) I think folks who pay are seen as not being able to find it elsewhere which may make them appear as not desirable to other people which then may make your partner question if they’re making a bad choice. Unless you happen to be in an area that has well regulated sex workers, I imagine people might think that you’ve been exposed to STDs which may give you a perception of being “unclean”.
I don’t think you should have to lie when finding a partner… but I do think telling them this (at the beginning) may be problematic for you for a lot of people.
I’d love to see sex work well regulated, protected, and normalized in the US but I don’t think we’re there.
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I think it fucks up the marriage (divorce) racket for women due to the fact it’s simply cheaper and a lot less hassle.
That’s why it gets screeched about.
The bottom line is that it’s no one’s business what 2 consenting adults do.
How is it different than pouring $100 worth of liquor down some woman’s throat at the bar, banging once and never seeing again?
Flame away, dgaf.
I think it fucks up the marriage (divorce) racket for women due to the fact it’s simply cheaper and a lot less hassle.
If people are getting married just to have sex, they probably shouldn’t be getting married in the first place. And I can’t imagine that the marriage for that woman would be great.
Gonna be honest though, your phrasing kind of gives off “sees women as pieces of meat to fuck” energy. And while we’re here, plying women with alcohol doesn’t sound super consensual to me. If she doesn’t want to fuck you sober, don’t do it.
Its a perfectly reasonable option for those that for whatever reason are unable to meet their needs by more conventional/ socially acceptable means. I do not make use of sex worker services currently but if the need arose in the future I would not rule it out, and would not look down on anyone else for doing so (as long as trafficing is not involved)
Do you think it would be okay for a state to, for example, cut off social benefits for a person who can’t find any other job but refuses to do sex work?
No, that would be wrong, but there is always some form of work out there that isnt sex work - it may not be pleasant or well paid though
Do you really think sex work is pleasant?
Most sex workers are from poor countries, many are single mothers who have to send money back home. Often times there is a pimp (or “boyfriend”) in the back who expects some kind of debt payments.
How do you explain that about 95 % of sex workers are disenfranchised women from poor countries when it’s supposedly a pleasant job that makes a lot of money?
That’s not at all what he said. He just said these hypothetical other jobs may not be pleasant or well paid. He never said - or implied - that sex work IS pleasant or well paid.
Calm down, sparky.
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One situation where I think it’s perfectly rational to use sexual services is for mentally handicapped people who have no realistic options for actual relationships. I live in Denmark where prostitution is legal on some conditions. The healthcare staff sometimes have to order prostitutes for their clients to cope with their urges and thereby avoiding violent situations from someone getting too frustrated. The client pays themselves and it’s both men and women using the option. The sex workers in these jobs are usually not found in back alleys or dodgy websites but through personal networks. It’s still very taboo.
I wonder how these clients are treated in countries where it is outright illegal. Probably not at all, or by illegal methods.
The main problem seems to be trafficking, not the sex services. Everyone does something for money that they really don’t want to do, like going to the office 40 hours every week.
If it was possible and required to verify the consensuality, it would probably remove a lot of the illegal services, and more legal services could thrive. There’ll always be ways to work around it, so it’s a difficult thing to address.
I can’t understand how people can compare these jobs. Does working in an office really feels the same for you than having sex with strangers?
They’re comparable only in being something that I’d rather not do, but apparently possible for the right amount.
They’re different in the going rate.
Personally, there are many other jobs that I I’d be less willing to do.
Pierre Elliot Trudeau, a former prime minister of Canada, has a great quote that I like to pull out: “No place for the state in the bedrooms of of the nation.”
I think sex work should be legal and regulated to avoid trafficking and other health issues. General indecency shouldn’t be allowed, like in playgrounds, parks, or where minors may otherwise be present. Private clubs, events, etc. should be fine. Governments should otherwise be uninvolved in our sex lives. It’s none of their business.
However to answer your question directly, while I think it should be legal I also think it’s sad when men use a sex workers services. I try not to, but I can’t help but judge them. There’s only a handful of reasons where I think its a persons only option. If someone feels like they’ve run out of options, it’s just sad to me. What’s gone wrong? Where’s your confidence? Have you given up?
And for those legitimate reasons, like someone who’s physically handicapped - that’s heartbreaking for whole other reasons.
It just makes me sad.
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Logically, if he treats the sex worker right, with no demanding, no (non negotiated/sane) violence, and his actions don’t extend into monogamous relationships, and his views on future sexual partners are neither transactional nor cruel, it should be fine.
Emotionally would likely be a different story for the partner, or at least for me. Partly due to the stigma attached to sex work, and partly due to feelings of inadequacy or worry about needing to perform unwanted acts, and partly due to a suspicion that that really would affect his views, because people’s thoughts and feelings are messy, sprawling things that don’t fit into the mental cabinets we stuff them into. But if the partner couldn’t get over that, then they’re not for him.
And yes, this applies to women who pay for sex workers, too. Or at least it damn well should.
I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to selling their body for sex.
However, I don’t live in that world, so in the meantime I support sex workers, because sex work is work.
The men who use their services? That’s a tougher nut to crack.
My partners brother is heavily mentally disabled and pushing 40, he’s still very much like a child, but obviously does not have a child’s libido. This man has never had an intimate interaction with a woman. He might never get the chance, he struggles to talk to women, even women who have similar issues as himself. I think sex workers could be beneficial for him, in the right context, for giving him intimacy he may otherwise never experience. I don’t think he would ever think/know to pursue a sex worker, but I could be wrong. There’s also the issue of his emotions began to be involved, which leads me to…
I’d be more worried about him finding OnlyFans and blowing through all his disability money each month instead of realizing he’s not actually getting much out of such a “relationship.” He’s the kind of person who a parasocial relationship like that could really damage their already troubling mental health. The same thing could happen with a prostitute, but they are less likely to hang the relationships on fake social cues that say they care about you. He’s not quite advanced enough to understand that these women are being paid to pretend to care, I don’t think.
Also, there’s other types of men who use these services I’m sure aren’t a net positive. There are plenty of conservative men who already view a standard relationship as a sexual transaction (I take care of girl = she give me sex), so they’re not far from viewing everything women with transactional already. Secondly, not only do the already view it as transactional, many of these conservative men turn to prostitutes because average women simply don’t want to date them because of their horrible, outdated views on women’s bodily autonomy. They are already angsty and moody because of women not wanting to date them, and they often are willing to take out their frustrations on the woman they paid to serve them. I see these men as not respecting and hurting the women they turn to for sex work.
Anyway, just some quick thoughts on the subject.
I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to selling their body for sex.
You see, that’s the problem. You are implicitly devaluing sex work compared to other professions. You’re not acknowledging that some people actually want to, and choose to do sex work. There’s nothing wrong whatsoever with someone choosing prostitution, stripping, escort, etc.
Could you say your same statement about being a lawyer? A teacher? An engineer?
“I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to being an engineer.”
You see how weird that sounds? So why can you say it about sex work? Do you see how derisive you’re being toward it as a profession? Funny that you say you’re supportive while implying that what they’re doing is a last resort…🤦♂️
I get you point but I genuinely want to live in a world where people are not forced to turn to engineering.
I chose engineering, and when I started I loved it, but eventually I ended up working in places I didn’t like, on jobs that made me feel dirty, but now I don’t know any other way to maintain the lifestyle I’m accustomed to.
Made you feel dirty physically or mentally?
Why not both?
Have you thought about stripping?
I think the error is on your side. Nothing that OC said denies that some sex workers like and choose what they do. These exist.
But it’s doubtable that these are in majority, and nothing what you say acknowledges that many many sex workers don’t have much choice.
Check yourself dude. The mere fact that you say “it’s doubtable these are in the majority” shows EXACTLY what you think of sex work. Your attitude of “ugh that’s so pitiful, no one would do that willingly, they must be forced into it” is fucking offensive.
Millions of people feel stuck in their jobs and “don’t feel like they have much choice.” Walmart, coffee shops, data entry, whatever. But if it’s sex work, all of a sudden it’s something to be ashamed of?
Yeah, sure there’s trafficking out there, and that is horrible. But don’t conflate the two. Don’t just assume that someone doing sex work is being trafficked. Just like you don’t constantly assume someone doing any other job must also be a trafficked slave or something. Get it?
Written like a defensive john. Sorry she didnt enjoy fucking you bro
Pretty sure I currently have the Philippines and Thailand more in mind than you.
I wonder if there’s a third type too where a person has an extremely busy life and doesn’t have time or possibly doesn’t want an intimate relationship.
I don’t know if it’s “right” that this type of person pays for sex. I think it makes sense as long as they respect the person that they’re paying and understand this person does not ‘belong’ to them - but this last point appears to be a problem for people whenever they pay anyone for anything.
There’s plenty of other types, those were just the ones I had time to write about before I pop off to work for the day.
Your comment led me towards an amusing thought: in the Harry Potter universe, goblins sell things to wizards for the duration of the wizard’s life, but then they expect it to go back to the goblins because ownership works differently for them vs wizards. Wizards don’t always/usually understand or respect that. So… If I ever was in the position to open a brothel, perhaps I’d name it “The Goblin’s Den.” I… Don’t know what kind of clientele that would attract though.
Weird cross over but okay :D
I wonder if there’s a third type too where a person has an extremely busy life and doesn’t have time or possibly doesn’t want an intimate relationship.
That would be me. I work 60 hours a week most weeks. I just want regular, casual, no strings attached sex.
Unfortunately I can’t actually afford sex workers, but some day…
Thank you for putting what’s pretty much exactly my view on the topic into words.
I would like to add though that I expect of men using sex services to thoroughly check and make sure that the women whose service they use provide this service by their own choice, which means they are in no way forced, not by pimps but also not by financial hardship.
With this constraint I’m afraid that many if not most existing sex services are actually probably not ethical to use.
It grosses me out, but as long as they’re not shitty to the sex worker and the sex worker isn’t being abused by a pimp, and everyone consents, it’s none of my damned business.
