- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
Centrists are suddenly unhappy now that trump is implementing their only policy for them.
You’ll often see Zionists condemn Egypt and Syria for not taking the Palestinians “oh the Palestinians are so bad that even the other Muslim countries won’t take them”. No, they just don’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing.
deleted by creator
This too shall pass and once it has, we shall remember the names of those that pushed genocides, those that pushed anti science that will inevitably cause the next pandemic.
I mean this is a pretty weak ass take and it’s not even really right. Like after this “passes” we will be fully locked in to rocketing off the edge of the climate abyss and there is nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent it. They will try with Geo engineering but that’s a toss up at best.
No one will remember anyone.
Climate change has a relatively cheap and easy solution.
Aresol sprays can buy a few decades of time if things get too hot.
We already have cheap solar and cheap batteries are becoming a reality. We only need a cheap, non-intermittent energy source to provide baseload energy. Cheap nuclear power is possible and can fill that niche - we had the tech in the past and China has it today.
For about $1T a fleet of reactors could be built to extract all the excess carbon from the atmosphere in 50 years, working in tandem with cheap solar energy and cheap batteries to power human civilization.
Are you under the delusion the climate disaster is confined solely to energy production?
Also the laws of thermodynamics say that pulling all of that carbon out the air would be not only inefficient to the extreme and take centuries, it would also use far more energy than we currently produce ON THE PLANET.
I have no idea where you got 50 years from, but that’s a joke. we couldn’t build the shit you would need to do it in 50 years.
The laws of thermodynamics say no such thing. Plants use solar energy to extract carbon from the atmosphere daily.
We could farm fast growing crops and bury them to sequester the carbon, but using nuclear energy is going to be cheaper and require less land.
E = mc2
People really don’t understand the massive amount of low carbon energy we have at our disposal with nuclear fission.
An unwillingness to use it just means we don’t want to solve climate change and would rather have our little “oh noes, world is ending” panic.
China seems to be the only big economy that understands the reality and they will probably solve climate change for the rest of the planet by 2050.
How long does it take to build a reactor: 15-25 yrs each Main component of construction: Concrete, a major contributor to CO2 emissions How many would we need to produce the energy required to run carbon capture infrastructure: ~1500
For your alternative, it has more merits but the main drawbacks come down to where do you grow it, and how does that effect the environment around it. Growing a shitton of kelp is going to create problems with nutrition in that area. I like this method most but the scalability is still a major problem. The amount you would need to grow is STAGGERING. I don’t know how we could do that and still have any coastal sea left open. Maybe massive floating barges in the open ocean.
It only takes that much time and cost in the West, because we killed nuclear with regulations.
Look how many reactors China is building.
I refuse to take anyone seriously that spouts this level of ignorance on technological matters.
You were claiming that a single country could undo all of this. I really don’t know how you take yourself seriously. Look at any data. There hasn’t been a pause in acceleration let alone a slowdown.
Its not cheap and not a solution.
It will give us a temporary reprieve at best. We still need to solve the issue by lowering the CO2 in the environment. Chemically speaking, you’ll basically have to spend the same amount of energy to pull all the CO2 out as we got over the past 200 year by putting that CO2 in the atmosphere.
That is if we have 100% efficient machines, however. In reality most combustion engines get 30% at best. Electrical system to pull it out will do some 70%? Let’s call it 50 on both, so you’ll have to double the amount of energy that this cost twice.
Basically, to get CO2 back to preindustrial levels we’ll have to spend 4x the amount of ALL the energy we’ve spent over the past 200 years.
You say it’s cheap? Basically double all energy prices (and with that, the prices of everything and destroy all economies) for, say, the next 50 years or so and generate twice the amount of electricity we do now, and we’ll be fine.
Why comment if you don’t understand physics. I’m not saying turn the carbon into hydrocarbons, which is wat you are implying.
Carbon sequestration takes way less energy than the energy released during burning.
Why comment when you’re just randomly going to claim that ther person you disagree with must not know the subject because they disagree with you?
Sure, don’t convert back to hydro carbons. Where are you going to store all that CO2 in a way that you know it guaranteed won’t escape?
Do you have any idea how much CO2 you’re talking about? Are you going to store it in high pressure tanks? Are you going to freeze it maybe and put it in caves? Pump the gas underground and pray it won’t sleep out?
The reason that I’m talking about converting it back to hydrocarbons is exactly that: you need to store it somewhere stable and reliable. For the incredible amounts that we have to store, there aren’t that many options beyond making hydro carbons and storing those
Perhaps read an introductory article on carbon storage, or ask ChatGPT:
Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS): This involves capturing CO₂ emissions from industrial sources, transporting it, and storing it underground in geological formations.
Direct Air Capture (DAC): This technology captures CO₂ directly from the air and stores it underground or uses it in industrial processes
It’s a sad state of affairs that a fellow human being is more insufferable to talk to than an AI.
Yeah, you’re right, you are insufferable and sad.
Having said that:
The amount of CO2 to store, depending on how far you want to go with removing all the CO2 humans have put in the atmosphere goes in the order of cubic kilometers. Humans have been, and continue to be busy beavers. Good luck with storing that in tanks.
Storing it in geological formations may be possible in a limited fashion but since it would be in gas form there is a litany of problems with that if you want to be absolutely sure it won’t escape.
Instead of bitching and moaning it may be more productive to just, you know, stay on subject.
Its even cheaper than your estimates…
We just need to plant trees, and get our forests to grow again. Like, the earth has these fabulous organisms that clean greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere… And they are self-replicating!
And due to climate change, they are sadly burning like crazy.
Where’s my Jill stien supports when ya need them! /s
I think their… cicadian rhythm only allows them to wake every 3½ years, make a lot of obnoxious noise, and then go back to sleep, or… “спать” as they like to call it.
And yet you’re up and down the thread arguing with them
Some people are working on changing how we vote so 3rd party voters can vote how they want and still have their vote count against the Republicans.
I guess you’re to busy telling people how to vote to come up with a solution to the problem you are so concerned with.
Right here, still glad I voted for the anti-genocide candidate instead of the 2 pro-genocide candidates
Biden was already actively doing the ethic cleansing that trump is talking about
Stay on message, Democrats! Remember, it wasn’t the Democrats fault for losing, it was those loony leftists for going against the approved narrative of the Democratic Party. The Dems aren’t out of touch or negligent, and Bill Mahr is funny and relevant.
God the comments suck on this post
Do you think maybe there can be more than one source of culpability for things in this universe?
I think the problem is so many people trying to politically point score by whitewashing a bunch of Genociders by using the actions of a new bunch of Genociders.
“Yeah, but our guys’ mass murdering of children was all fairies and unicorns shitting rainbows from their arses whilst those other guys’ Genocide is all dark and shit” isn’t the Grand Principled argument the tribalists seem to think it is.
It’s kind of understandable that anybody with enough Principle in their bodies to trump tribalism is a “little” peeved at people excusing any group of willful and eager collaborators in the mass murder of children, be it the previous bunch or the new bunch.
Seems like the problem in this thread is a bunch of people trying to politically point score by not giving a shit that Trump is moving forward with this because they’d rather condemn people who are not in power and may never be in power again.
I see very little condemnation of Trump and a lot of “Genocide Joe would have done the same thing.”
And fuck the Palestinians, they’re just a tool in this from what I can tell from such people. How many “Genocide Joe” people here not bothering to condemn Trump have ever even talked to a Palestinian?
Re-read the posts: plenty of people who criticize Biden are also criticizing Trump.
I can’t speak for others but I personally am not constantly criticizing Trump because their is no lack of criticizing Trump here so it’s not a problem I feel I need to address in my comments, much less do it all the time.
It’s the whitewashing of the actions of Genociders that I feel is a problem so my comments are directed at that, and in this thread so far I’ve only seen the actions of one bunch of Genociders be whitewashed, and that’s the Biden bunch.
If this was 4chan I’m sure there would be plenty of comments whitewashing Trump’s actions that I would feel the need to counter.
You need to re-read my posts because you are still doing what I am saying, not giving a shit about what is going to happen to Palestinians because you’re too busy continuing to argue about an election that was decided months ago.
What have you actually done to try to stop this genocide?
Mainly spreading awareness of what’s going and exposing the flawed logic and lies in pro-Israeli propaganda since the very start and pointing out the hypocrisy of those who empower the Genociders by supporting politicians who knowingly and actively give them military support. (To the point that I’ve actually received e-mails in my native language from a Tel Aviv based organisation inviting me to a “learn about Israel” web course, which is funny 'cause I’ve never published my e-mail address here)
I’m also a member of a small party in the country I live in which is very loudly against the Israeli Occupation and the Israeli Genocide.
I keep on hammering against the whitewashing of the Democrat Genociders because their actions help normalized the support of Genocide and extreme racism in the US - they’re supposed to be an alternative to the likes of Trump, the opposite not the “almost the same but a tiny bit less bad”.
Democrats are supposed to walk towards Less Evil, thus opening up a political gap in the middle that also pulls the Republicans over towards Less Evil, but instead Democrats are walking towards More Evil, effectively making the baseline of American politics be Quite A Lot Of Evil and worsening, and supporting the normalization and even increasing extremism of the Evil in the Republican Party.
This isn’t about the Present, because that war is lost and all that people have left is Resistance (and me not being in US means I can’t be part of that), this is about the Future - if the Democrat leadership comes around to accept that their only chance is to actually be the opposite of Trump in actions, fighting for actual Principles, rather than merely be the slightly dissenting performative voice, then there is hope for improvement otherwise (as indicated by Trumps reelection after what he did last time in office) America is condemned to a cycle of presidents like Trump and worse.
People whitewashing Genocide-support as long as it’s done by Democrats ain’t gona push the Democrat leadership to start moving towards Less Evil.
“Spreading awareness.” So getting on the internet and talking shit. Big fucking deal.
Have you spent even five minutes sending a form email and making a phone call? No, apparently not. You can very easily contact politicians in other countries, but you’d rather just sit on your ass and berate people.
And you are the one whitewashing genocide here. You have not spent two seconds discussing what is going to happen to Palestinians and you clearly don’t care since they’re just pawns in your game.
Explain
I’m not sure what you need explained here. Pretending it’s the Democrats and only the Democrats that caused Harris to lose is silly. Sure, they have culpability. So does every person who loudly and repeatedly said not to vote for “Genocide Joe” and then “Holocaust Harris.” So do people like me for not trying hard enough to keep Trump out of office.
There’s lots of blame to go around, but everyone is going “not me! Not me!”
That’s fine, it’s nice you’re taking responsibility, it shows initiative. All I’m saying, all I’ve ever said, was to stop defending the democrats in this, by persecuting people who voted, or didn’t vote, according to their conscience. The dems should be sharply criticized for their failures. Maybe there’s lots of blame to go around, but there is a higher concentration of blame where there is a higher concentration of power.
Blame actually isn’t worth much to me. But the brow beating, infantalizing, condescending attitude toward working Americans while gate keeping every scrap of power, apparently just to end up losing it to the right, is an absolutely inexcusable yet predictable consequence of deep political corruption. Until you personally start organizing against it, then any blame you try to deflect away from the party by taking it on yourself will be a reflection of your ego, not your willingness to put it on the line and fight for change.
And you don’t even have to be a commie like me, you can be a pragmatist/reformist and I’ll give you shit but at least I’ll respect the struggle. Probably doesn’t mean much to you but it beats defending corruption.
I never defended Democrats. Nor do I think Democrats are even relevant anymore. My whole point in this thread is a bunch of people are arguing over Democrats and Republicans and not giving a shit about Palestinians, just using them as pawns to argue about American politics.
Okay thanks for clarifying I’m in a couple threads having similar arguments and got my wires crossed.
My comment was really directed at many of the other commenters who are defending dems and pointing the blame.
I’m glad you’re working through the problems and it shows a commitment to truth that is lost in most political discourse so thanks for bringing something nicely and distinctly human to the discourse.
If the point you are trying to make is that our spectacular political theatre of divisiveness and trump is actually moving the discourse away from where it should be grounded, that is the fight for the liberation of Palestinians from genocide and decades of oppression, from the actual suffering and struggles, then we agree. Not sure how I would have gotten that from your first comment, but I’m happy to accept that’s what you meant, or whatever your actual intent happened to be.
Well, the truth can sting a little if you’ve just found out you’ve been fooled. The important thing is to grow up and learn from your mistake.
Well you sure showed those democrats by not voting huh? Like shooting yourself but calling it a win because you got blood on the other guy.
The American left has become so toxic, and splintered into micro groups with special labels who all hate each other and reject each other’s support while blaming each other and calling anyone even slightly right or even left of you an enemy. Meanwhile the right was united while trump and Netanyahu played you all so blatantly and obviously and you all bought it.
Well I’m sure Gazans thank you American leftists for staying home and letting trump win. I’m sure your blaming democrats will make them feel better
Sadly you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you’re voting you’re supporting the status quo of the Dems really only listening to corporate backers, if you’re not voting you’re letting the opposition (Trump) have a better chance at office (which he did get). They’re both terrible options, and I’m not sure blaming individuals who are tired of having to fight for the lesser evil instead of a better tomorrow is fair
Are you suggesting that material conditions can be contradictory, moving people to make different, equally rational, decisions for conflicting reasons, rather than just being two camps that define all moral obligations as the opposite of the other?
Someone should look into this
I did vote, but I was also trying to tell people that the whole strategy of browbeating wasn’t going to work. But that’s all the dems have to offer which is why they lost.
Someone was telling you this shit was going to happen and there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it. You decided compromise was for losers and are now reaping the rewards of your ill informed, short sighted decision. Why are you whining so much, you got exactly what you were told you would get.
there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it
State level electoral reform so people can vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect
Someone was telling you this shit was going to happen and there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it
Preventing what? A genocide?
Harris was all on board with it.
Well never know, she’s not the president.
Trump, the guy you enabled, however, Is. And he’s a fucking nightmare.
He wants to displace every Palestinian by force and hand their land to Israel.
Is that what you non-voted for? Take a plane to the Gaza Strip and preach that on a corner, see how well that works out for you.
I voted for Harris, even though I didn’t want to.
End result, for Palestinians are the same, regardless, though. She supported a genocide of them.
Sure buddy, of course you did.
So did you! You got exactly what we told you was going to happen, yet its our fault it happened. Look at this post! This whining is on your side my dude. I just can’t believe you fools didn’t stop with the brow beating after such a catastrophic loss. Couldn’t do one fraction of a second of self reflection. I was not telling people not to vote for the democrat, but I didn’t hide my real feelings either.
A movement to withhold votes against Democrats has been building for years. the uncommitted movement is ideologically closer to liberal democrats than so called tankies, but Dems threw them under the bus, called them Putin influenced for protesting against a genocide in the only way they knew how. I was fighting for Palestinian liberation in different ways, I don’t really get too involved in electoral politics though I’m active politically. Never was I whining. God what projection.
It really demonstrates the two tendencies of liberalism: good conscientious people who are cool and hate injustice, vs. bloodless defenders of private capital who make noises like they care about justice so they can take power and broker influence.
Get a grip, do some actual criticism of your movement, do better for christs sakes. There wouldn’t be nearly as many communists and anarchists becoming radicalized if democrats were even a little effective. They are the only force that has the power to oppose the fascists and criminals in charge of the republicans. and they blew it, time and time again. Stop blaming the people, the fucking lemmy posters for Christ sakes, and start looking at your party,and namely where they get their funding.
this may require you to read and process information instead of just repeating what some 68 year old millionaire said. Which may take some growth on your part, so maybe hydrate and stretch a little first.
I’m not defending the party, the movement, the history, the people or their choices. I’m pointing out that no one wanted to hold their nose to vote and now we’re all swimming in shit.
Downvote me all you want. No amount of political theory will make the math go away. Every single person who decided to not vote, or to vote for catharsis, was a helping hand pushing Trump’s ass into the oval office.
Yes, the Democrats pissed you off, yes you should have still voted for them.
Its a hell of a situation we are in, but abstracting this one political act away from the movement, the people, their choices, the history behind it all, is the only reason you are able to look at the situation in such a limited way.
I believe you, that you want to get your intentions or beliefs untangled from whatever schemes political and economic elites are cooking. It is a great tragedy that people didn’t vote to keep Trump out. But if you want your individual beliefs to stand on their own and hold water on their own, then you have to extend the same courtesy to conscientious uncommitted voters.
For months people told me I was a bot for daring to suggest Biden was too old to run. Then that view was vindicated too late, and when progressives wanted to get in line behind Kamala, it was made pretty clear that other than uncomfortable noises and “concerns” about the genocide, money and weapons were still going to flow. Do you understand that this lesser evil messaging was doomed to fail? millions of voices on the left who are in no way hoping for another trump term were warning exactly this, and were silenced, not to mention beaten, arrested, kicked out of school or worse for daring to put their bodies on the line for Palestinians?
Maybe ask yourself why the most progressive stripe of voters withheld their vote, while millions of others just didn’t think, maybe wrongly, that it would affect them either way. Was there a conspiracy by Russia and other countries? I mean its been established, I think, that a great deal of this goes on. So let me ask you: in this situation, where democracy is being attacked from without and within, night and day by well funded and well organized forces, do you think that a mere vote every 4 years or so is enough to actually prevent the degeneration of a democracy? Or might it take quite a bit more effort? Second question: have the democrats proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are worth that vote, so that the critical mass of rational and conscientious people in this country would not have grounds to doubt their commitment to restoring democracy and overcoming fascism?
My answer to both questions is no. This does not make me naive or idiotic, but I’m afraid that is how I am made to feel, made to seem, by the mainstream of the Democratic party. And so were hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of other Americans whose conscience would not allow a vote for genocide.
The oppression of the Palestinian people didn’t begin on oct7, let’s not pretend that Democrats werent culpable before and after. Therefore there is good reason to doubt the dems would have influenced any meaningful change in the conflict
The only political act that was being asked of the millions who didn’t vote was to vote. That’s the only political act that matters in this contact. It’s the lowest possible bar in a democracy. Show up, check a box. I get that it sucks, but this, what we have now, is going to be so much worse.
Just to sum up my point: The system is rigged hard against any kind of progressivism. The left might be able to influence a Democrat, it absolutely will not influence a Republican, and a third party has absolutely zero chance of getting elected.
If third parties want clout, they have to build it from the ground up, and that means money in a capitalist system. Where’s all the third party money that’s going to help defeat the established parties? It doesn’t exist.
Again, I’m not celebrating his reality, I’m only pointing out that it’s always been that way and opting out of having a voice isn’t going to do shit to change it.
Not voting is hurting the people we care about, all for the sake of feeling better about yourself.
A system that restrict democracy to checking a box every 4 years while silencing peaceful opposition calling for peace, is not a democracy it is tyranny. You won’t be able to sell tyranny to me as democracy. And every cycle that the deep political corruption at the heart of the Democrats exposes itself for what it is, more and more people see it for what it is.
They didn’t create these contradictions, neither did you and neither did I. But many people are responsible and benefit directly from the carnage. And your plan to oppose them is to stay dumb and stand in line every 4 years.
I said it elsewhere, but it just shows the divide in the Democrats between the progressives and the establishment. The fact that you’ve resigned to a single unconscionable viewpoint doesn’t mean that other people are stupid for going the opposite way. The Palestinian people have been the victims of liberal pragmatism for 75 years. I know you want to collapse all morality and ethics into a single moment when a ballot is cast, but seriously don’t you think that view is somewhat convenient for the establishment? Is this the society you want to take part in and participate in?
No its not, you dread to do it but once every 2-4 years as a matter of duty. But people who don’t subscribe to your sense of moral duty, no different than the enemy right? Cant you see how self defeating it all is?
Refusing to participate grants you zero benefit, and makes it easier for the system to continue.
This has nothing to do with political viewpoints, this is math. There’s no way in hell you’re going to tear it down from the outside so what’s the plan? Sit there and feel smug that you did nothing while everyone suffers?
Checking the box is the bare minimum, and you couldn’t even do that, because it made you feel icky.
Your protest vote, or non vote (same thing), holds negative value for the people of Palestine.
So… you’re actually saying that your protest successfully got trump elected- in defense of someone accusing you of helping to get trump elected….
No, what they are saying is the Dem’s consistent refusal to listen to their voters, and instead thinking that voters “owe” their votes to the dems, is what got Trump elected.
How on earth does refusing to listen to voters equal losing an election without also admitting that you are responsible for the outcome of an election if this was your reason to protest vote/stay home?
You either had an effect on the election that caused trump to win via your act of protest, or you didn’t/ and therefore don’t get to say “we told you this would happen.”
If you didn’t vote in protest; or voted third party to send a message to the democrats, then you get to take the blame for trump. That is how a logical conclusion is made.
If you chose not to eat chicken because you don’t like it, and your only other option is to eat pasta, and you don’t like that either-
It is YOUR fault you are hungry, not all the other people eating their dinners.
Seriously…. Even children should be able make this distinction. But I guess that’s what happens when arrogance meets shame-
You get stubborn ignorance.
How on earth does refusing to listen to voters equal losing an election without also admitting that you are responsible for the outcome of an election if this was your reason to protest vote/stay home?
Because I don’t blame individual voters, for the decisions of the candidate running?
You either had an effect on the election that caused trump to win via your act of protest, or you didn’t/ and therefore don’t get to say “we told you this would happen.”
So, no fault goes to the candidates? At all?
It is YOUR fault you are hungry, not all the other people eating their dinners.
Isn’t it the fault of the person who only provided the food, and only giving the choice between shit sandwich and diarrhea soup?
If voters protest voting had an effect, doesn’t that mean the blame lies with the candidate who wholly ignored the voters? Because they ignored the voters during the election, its fair to say they would be ignored after the election.
Seriously…. Even children should be able make this distinction. But I guess that’s what happens when arrogance meets shame-
Yes, even a child should be able to make the distinction of genocide being evil, regardless of the purported justification.
And, here’s a spoiler: I voted for Harris! Yes, it was a very selfish decision on my part, because I have direct interactions daily with, well, most of all the groups that were being impacted under Biden, and now under Trump. At best, I was hoping for 4 more years of radicalizing people.
But guess what? I still am working to radicalize people.
No one said the candidate or the party takes no blame. That’s foolish to even think to assume.
But 90 million people didn’t vote. It’s safe to say that several million of those were single issue protesters. And then the over 3 million third party voters?
Yeah…
It’s your fault you’re hungry.
No I’m saying that material reality affects peoples views more than your version where people are dumb babies; and acknowledging that, let alone standing next to us in struggle could have carried Democrats to victory, instead they abandoned even the semblance of ethics and morals other than “Cheeto bad.” Some people, and you may struggle with this because of an apparent lack of empathy or theory of mind, although maybe not, are not able to cash in their ethics and morals for a pat on the back and literally nothing else, from the same people who are resolved to continue the genocide. Maybe you can, but others have more character and compunction.
Hopefully someday you have experiences that stimulate growth as a person.
And like I’m not particularly partial to taking this view of you as some kind of vampire bereft of all reason and conscience. But when you do it to others, don’t get grumpy when someone calls you out on it. If you don’t like the way it feels, and if you think its possible that you might take a contrary position to me because of our roles on either side of this discourse, then think about how when you do it, it affects others.
Fuck me for thinking you should be better than that!
So… I’m having difficulty understanding because of your obvious intellectual superiority, but…
I’m going to need a simple answer here:
Did your protest work, or not?
Because if it did, then it would seem to me- in my humble ignorance, that you enabled a trump victory.
But if it didn’t, then it would seem to be, also in my humble ignorance, that you enabled a trump victory.
Be sure to use small words so that my brain can understand.
My question is answered by your question: did you and the democrats stand with the Palestinians or did you stand with Israel?
The organization you are defending with your bad faith questioning is one where it is impossible to stand with ones own principles against genocide. Democrats could not convincingly demonstrate that they would stand by Palestinians and end this genocide, even after the UN and an avalanche of international bodies, legally and scientifically proved that it was indeed a genocide that was occurring. Even then, there was just an uncomfortable shifting of feet as democrats who had been receiving campaign contributions on the order of millions of dollars over decades, were forced to either stand against that money or genocide.
They chose money, and the people who stood against the fascist oppression of the Palestinians, chose to stay home.
Because you know what didn’t work? Standing with Israel when the time came to support Palestine, and then expecting people to be guilt tripped into turning out to vote for Democrats. To be clear, i never once advocated for staying home on election day, but at least I was able to surmise it by looking at the situation.
You act like I’m putting on an air of intellectual superiority, but my standards for consciousness of the situation are actually quite low. I would ask that someone would learn about and think about the situation leading up to a particular event, which you seem to want to ignore; and I ask that you have a measure of empathy. Your inability to demonstrate either should not be read as my judgement of you, but your own guilty judgement of your own fucked up reasoning that you want to put on to me. Save it for your therapist.
As expected, walls of text without answering a simple yes or no question.
Here is my bOtHsIdEs Pikachu face. :|
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Fuck off with this nonsense. Kamala would literally push the same policies, just like Joe did. The only difference would be that she’d use vague and hollow language to keep a pretense of humanity up so people could continue pretending that they themselves are not contributing to this atrocity. Your naive picture of mainstream Democrats is why that party continues to be as ineffective as it’s been for 50 years. I welcome all the neoliberal Lemmy downvotes. Assholes.
Interesting how you’re more interested in condemning Biden and Harris for this thing they didn’t do than Trump for doing it. In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren’t involved.
I will think back to threads like this every time I wonder why Democrats never achieve anything meaningful and the country continues to lurch toward fascism. You all seem to be more interested in team sports than actually having principles and expectations for your own party.
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump. Their reason doesn’t matter, they’re fascism-enabling Trump supporters in every way that matters.
If you didn’t vote, or if you didn’t vote for Kamala, you helped Trump get elected. That’s not politics, it’s math.
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump.
I’m a leftist, and I do not, nor have ever, supported Trump. I just didn’t support the other genocider, either. Because I have principles that I stand on, one of which is “Never give support to genociders”.
I’m glad you feel good about yourself. Your inaction is part of the problem.
Your inaction is part of the problem.
Why isn’t Harris’ inaction part of the problem? I mean, she could have said,“You know, genocide is bad, and when I take office, I will end all support for Israel until they agree to an immediate ceasefire?”
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump
We fucking didn’t. Not voting for Kamala isn’t supporting Trump, it’s just rejecting genocide. If democrats passed progressive policy and stopped a genocide, they might have had a chance, but they’d rather lose the elections to a fascist than actually pushing progressive policy.
There were no actual leftists on the ballot in every state that campaigned beyond the election year. Kamala was the realistic option. It’s perfectly reasonable to be conflicted about voting for someone because they’re the lesser of two evils, but there’s nothing rational thinking a leftist or faux leftist candidate that only shows up during election years had a realistic chance of winning.
Exactly, so you make it clear to the democrats in the meanwhile: either you move to the left, or eat shit. They decided to do the latter. Now start blaming them for the loss and move towards organising labour and political orgs
It’s perfectly reasonable to be conflicted about voting for someone because they’re the lesser of two evils,
There is no “conflicted” on whether or not I should support a genocider. How well do you sleep at night, knowing you supported a genocider?
In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren’t involved.
The difference is? Trump didn’t lie about it, he said, outright this is what he was going to do. Harris planned to do the exact same thing, but with a pride flag, and it would have been a woman making the bombs being dropped onto kids.
You also seem very unbothered by this plan.
Russian propaganda is a powerful thing.
I can’t even blame Russia at this point. These people seriously do not give a shit about this genocide apart from the political points it can score them.
Go to hexbear’s mutual_aid community, look at the posts there, and tell me again how much more .world cares about palestinians
What does Hexbear have to do with anything?
ROFL! Hexbear.
Go, look
removed by mod
That everyone who disagrees with me is a “neoliberal”?
No, just that anyone who doesn’t cut off someone for being a genocider is a neoliberal ghoul.
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Pretty much the only difference is she wouldn’t say it out loud, frankly. She clearly stated she had Israel’s back, regardless of what anyone said. I mean, look at how she reacted to people stating, to her face, that they could not vote for her, due to that.
And what did she do? She doubled down on her support for the genocide.
She was, the only difference is she wouldn’t come out and say it bluntly to the American public.
definitively yes
Genocide is the word you’re looking for
Genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing. V
Oh I know, but one word has a much bigger social impact than the other.
Its the same difference between molested and raped. You typically see in news headers that an adult male raped a little girl, but an adult women molested a little boy. One sounds much worse than the other, yet both are the same thing
Granted but they’re not the same thing. Ethnic cleansing is more broad then genocide, and genocide TECHNICALLY doesn’t have to be ethnic cleansing (but as far as I know always has been).
IMO ethnic cleansing in general can be more insidious. If you drive people from their homes and replace them with your own settlers, that’s ethnic cleansing. But it’s complex enough that the right wing will deny that it is such.
See: Palestine and the West Bank.
Of course it is ethnic cleansing. But in his opinion, it is the good kind of ethnic cleansing. Just like deporting immigrants, or sometimes even Native Americans…
And they’ll eventually realise that “good” ethnic cleansing is actually quite expensive, and who will really miss them anyway?
Trump’s administration should really just come up with some sort of, ‘last answer’. Something cheaper than deportation, doesn’t let those undesirables the opportunity to come back in, and sends a message to any other undesirables. I just can’t think of what that could be. /S
Oohhh, like some sort of solution? Like one that’s final?? Hmmm…
Of course, if USA really wants the Gaza population to be displaced, it would be consistent for them to take on a significant proportion of them as immigrants.
And they wouldn’t even be undocumented migrants!
But they would still be brown :(
US President Donald Trump is facing widespread criticism and accusations of proposing ethnic cleansing after stating that he would like to “just clean out” Gaza and relocate its Palestinian population to neighbouring countries.
Speaking aboard Air Force One during a flight from Las Vegas to Miami on Saturday, Trump described Gaza as a “demolition site” and suggested moving its residents to Jordan and Egypt.
“I’d like Egypt to take people. I’d like Jordan to take people,” Trump said. “You’re talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing.”
He added that the move could be either temporary or long-term, saying, “something has to happen”
To everybody who voted against Kamala Harris because she didn’t change her stance on Gaza, how does it feel to be played harder than a tenor saxophone?
removed by mod
Trump is probably even more pro-Israel than Biden.
It’s a real photo finish for which admin wants more dead Palestinians.
How did we get played?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
ABC is an Australian government funded media
BBC is a British government funded media
CBC is a Canadian government funded media PBS is an American government funded mediaWhat’s your point?
Don’t believe Govt mouthpieces ? I guess
when utilitarianism seems less burdensome than whatever twisted knot the “genocide joe” folks have to tell themselves justify their actions, you gotta wonder about the choices they made.
The carnage in Palestine is far reduced now than it was a month ago. I have no confidence that it will hold, but so far the only way that Trump has been worse than Biden on the issue is that Trump is explicit in his rhetoric as opposed to trying to sugar coat it. I realize that to Americans, who are only directly effected by the genocide in so far as hearing about it makes them sad, having their leaders tell them soothing lies means everything, but to those actually in Palestine, it doesn’t make a material difference.
So “not sugarcoating it” is supplying the Israeli government with the penetrating bombs that increase civilian casualties that Biden halted?
Biden may have been largely indifferent to Gazans but Trump is actively hostile and will encourage the brutality in spite of other pressures such as the ICC, which we already see him pushing the ICC to relieve Netanyahu.
Genocide Joe was actually doing ethnic cleansing, so far trump is only talking about it
Edit: I guess trump is actually doing it too, they’re both equally bad on this
Oh, did his administration stop supplying weapons to Israel?
So you agree that supplying weapons to Israel for the last 15 months was ethnic cleansing. You agree that Biden and Trump are both pro-ethnic cleansing
Oh, so now providing weapons to Israel is ethnic cleansing?
If a known mass murderer asks for a gun and bullets do you consider it ethical to give them an assault rifle and 10,000 rounds and then refuse to even remotely resist when they proceed to use those items to commit mass murder?
I don’t, no. But people like the person I’m replying to have spend the last fifteen months insisting it’s fine.
when utilitarianism seems less burdensome
How burdensome was it to watch 40K Palestinians die at the hands of weapons made, and supplied, by the US, and fully supported by Biden?
#neckpussy
I don’t see any appropriate backlash to any of his shit so far.
Yep. The only pushback is from the countries he wants to cleanse them into or the people themselves he wants cleansed. It’s self preservation.
The left strongly disapprove, but that’s it enough for a backlash. The leftists think Biden was just as bad and the right and diet-right voters don’t care or are happily on board.
