I am asking here because all the political subs don’t allow a question, and US politics used to seemed so simple until to understand this man came along.
What is the difference between jail and prison?
jail: you are being detained awaiting trial
prison: you have been sentenced to detainment following a trial
afaik, anyway.
You can be sentenced to time in jail, it’s usually for sentences shorter than a year.
afaik, anyway
This is correct.
The rich and powerful are exempt from the rules
The rich and powerful are exempt from the rules
Close. They have the resources (money and connections with money) to fight back.
They always get away with it.
*Most of the time. Not always.
Nah they’re just exempted.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelly_Miscavige
Most of their crimes are never even investigated.
Nah they’re just exempted.
… because they have money/power. You think the judge let him off free just for fun? The judge got paid (or threatened) one way or another. If the du pont guy didn’t have the money/connections he did they would have locked him up and not given it a second thought.
Same with Shelly Miscavige, there’s a lot of people with money involved. It’s an uphill battle. Nobody should be above the law, but it’s allowed because if you have enough money you can at the very least exhaust the resources of those trying to come after you.
When you’re a billionaire, you can do whatever the hell you want in Murica.
When you’re a billionaire, you can do whatever the hell you want.
Nah, it does depend a bit on the country. Didn’t several russian billionaires (aka oligarchs) … erm… have accidents last year? So I don’t think money helps you a lot in a system like that. It gets them further, no question. But ultimately it didn’t matter.
The country’s political system didn’t kill them. A more powerful billionaire killed them.
Unless you’re a Chinese billionaire and say something bad about Winnie the Pooh
The only good thing about trump is that I’ve learned a lot about how gov’t, justice, and red states are. Good is probably the wrong world.
Part of it is because there are still looming constitutional questions about whether a president, current or former, can be indicted for his actions during his presidency. I think we’ve mostly resolved those, though. A substantial and powerful cadre of political thugs is still going to try to sue to throw every conceivable barrier in the way of a reasonable interpretation of the law, but that just takes time to wade through the bullshit.
Another big problem is that Trump captured a huge amount of the judiciary, at all federal levels, by putting cronies into high ranking judicial seats. It’s the main thing Republicans have been doing for, like, 50 years. Putting a case in front of any one of those is a landmine, and that minefield has to be carefully navigated, and that also takes time. We’re basically done with that part, now.
The much bigger problem, in my perspective, is that any criminal trial requires a jury.
Almost 50% of the voting public voted for this motherfucker. His approval has dipped sharply since then, but still, a huge portion of the US public is willing to do just about anything to make sure “their guy” wins. They have proven nearly invulnerable to rational argument, emotional argument and any appeal to empathy or compassion. They will lie to get on that jury, and then they will vote for his acquittal if they don’t get caught. Voir dire–the process of choosing that jury–is going to be one of the most harrowing things any prosecutor ever has to do. And it has to be done correctly because it’s extremely important that once the wheels of justice start turning, that they reach the correct verdict.
Any thinking person knows what that verdict has to be. But there’s no guarantee that we’ll get it.
And if we don’t get it, we see the rule of law start to collapse at all levels. Remember the 1992 riots after the cops that beat Rodney King got acquitted? Imagine a whole country of that. The prosecutors in these cases are thinking about that. And that’s why they’re being extremely meticulous about every detail of these proceedings, because their errors could cost us a lot more than Trump getting away.
💀
What, in your opinion, is the reason why we’re at where we are with regards to Trump?
Nice, a three sentence callout without any refutation or detail.
If you are so confident in their confident incorrectness, put at least a minimum of effort into furthering the discussion.
Do you have anything to say, or are you going to leave it at nothing?
It feels like, while in theory it might be possible to convict a former president, in practice it’ll be literally impossible to find a jury who aren’t biased in one way or another, because everyone has a strong opinion about the man. I’d bet my life savings that for virtually every potential juror, how they voted in 2020 has a bigger impact on their verdict than any evidence either side could possibly provide.
@starman2112 @xantoxis it’s not about bias is about facts. If proved that something happens is not biased. It is called applying the law.
Lol you sweet innocent child
Okay, I’m going to take this on its best face and believe that you might just not have thought about the process. In a jury trial, each juror gets to decide for themself what they believe happened based on the ‘facts’ presented during the trial. If you have talked to any hardcore fan of a politician, then you have seen how they can disregard just about anything that is presented about their favorite fella.
The concern that a juror who voted for Trump; watches nothing but Fox News, Newsmax, or other ‘conservative’ media; lives in an area where only other brainwashed masses live; talks about nothing political except for conservative talking points with said neighbors, friends, family, and coworkers coworkers; and is still willing to believe in Trump’s innocence despite all the public evidence we know about will vote innocent regardless of what is presented in court is a legitimate concern. Don’t be naive and think that somehow being in court will cause a tiger to change its stripes.
whew That was one hell of a run-on sentence.
@xantoxis something must be very wrong when you have near 50% ppl voting for president someone like #mangomusollini after 4 years to comprove how unfit he is.
We knew something was very wrong when he even made it to the primary in 2015. The guy is a mockery of every aspect of what people traditionally considered to be decent.
Because this needs to be done 1000% right, there is no margin for error, everything has to be done in an iron clad manner that cannot be dismantled by half-assing it. Indicting a former president is a first in the history of this country, and this former president is nothing short of a cult leader with millions of unshakable followers, many of whom are armed to the teeth and ready to burn this country to the ground for him. So this has to be done very friggin carefully.
I would kind of agree with you but I think it’s more that there are Republicans blocking any way they can and the ominous shadow of a compromised SCOTUS:
Edit: what’s up with the fuks in the web address, lol
I wonder if that’s a typo and a maga webmaster meant to slip in a sneaky “fuck Biden”?
unshakeable followers
You spelled ignorant morons wrong
How is it that different from indicting a sitting president…
I admire your optimism.
If it was really that bad the cia would have him killed. It’s just because he had a good team of lawyers to make sure that when he did anything he did it was either defendable or on someone else so it’s hard to get him.
The CIA really isn’t going to assasinate a prominent politician, let alone a former president. It would have massive consequences from delegitimizing the democratic system to causing riots all around the country.
Yeah my bad, you’re absolutely right. Everything I have said in this topic was out of my ass.
Haha you think they would martyr him? Not likely
Absolutely. You can estimate the number of true followers he has by looking at how many people use truth social (it’s still a thing) in comparison to pre-musk twitter. It’s a vocal minority. The only reason trump was able to get where he did was by getting the electoral college to believe he was the lesser evil (not gonna get into voter fraud) (and being really, really rich). They have him killed in such a way that it seems like it wasn’t them and he is still viewed as a martyr by few, but not all. Even if they truly believe that he was what they said he was, it won’t matter because no one rich enough exists that would want to replace him. They would be okay to do that.
Have you seen the utterly unironic artwork?
Holy shit you’re in a pickle with this one America.
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So why do we have to be so afraid of his followers that we are giving him special treatment to dissuade their violence? Instead of, you know, fighting back or having them jailed too. 🤦
Nearly 63,000,000 people voted for trump in '16.
If even 1% of them are crazy fucks, that’s 630,000 people to deal with. That’s not something to take lightly.
Doesn’t make it right, but it’s another layer of complexity.
Like Mueller half-assed it and the end result was nearly a fucking coup. Can’t let that happen again.
Muller half assed the investigation, on top of that corrupt Barr hid all the important findings, and Bitch McConnell swept the whole treason under the rug - that all lead Orange Man to be even bolder with his treason and rise of blatant lawlessness within the Republican Party.
I don’t disagree with what you said but I just wanted to point out how entire republican machinery is responsible for the imminent death of democracy in this country. Not just Muller’s half assed investigation.
Mueller didn’t half ass anything. He conducted his investigation and determined that crimes were likely committed, but that he didn’t have the power to bring charges in his position as special counsel and it would be up to the AG.
Which is true. A DOJ special counsel is not the same thing as the independent counsel that used to exist, which was what Ken Starr was when he investigated Clinton.
A DOJ special counsel is completely beholden to the AG and DOJ policies and can’t bring charges without the AG signing off on them.
If you actually read the mueller report, it’s extremely damning and he turned it over to the AG and Congress to do something about it. The AG declined to bring any charges based on a DOJ memorandum that says a sitting POTUS cannot be charged. The House impeached Trump over the findings and the Senate failed to convict and remove him.
The current AG could still bring criminal charges over the conclusion of the report, but at this point it’s been so highly politicized that it would be impossible to get a conviction on.
@Earthwormjim91 I am wondering if that is the reason we are not seeing any of the Trump kinds getting indicted To not make it look like justice is hunting them and legitimize the poplitical lies?
It was a waste of time and taxpayer money.
I think calling this a shitty take is a huge understatement
It was the only thing that could have been done when republicans controlled the DOJ and the Senate.
Maybe if people in the Midwest weren’t complete idiots we would have had Clinton instead and not had four years of irreversible damage plus a generation of scotus that is hell bent on dismantling everything.
Seems weird to think that something that accomplished absolutely nothing is a good use of taxpayer money but go off fam on the midwest.
It accomplished the third presidential impeachment in history and very likely helped lead to Biden winning and Trump not getting four more years.
Saying absolutely nothing is just defeatism at its best.
Just because it didn’t lead to the right conclusion doesn’t mean it accomplished nothing.
Just because it didn’t lead to the right conclusion doesn’t mean it accomplished nothing.
Plus the evidence discovered during te investigation stillnexists and is still part of the official record, meaning it can be used to support any future legal actions. And will serve as information for future historians looking back at this era.
Hopefully it can be used as part of some future “those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it” systemic improvements.
Please don’t depress me from the reminder that Obama/Hillary should have seated 3 SCOTUS justices, cementing sanity for a generation.
This is exactly right
Stop saying “the AG”. Say his fucking traitor name. William Barr. Who only got cold feet at the 11th hour when the groundwork for the coup was already being made.
The Mueller report - as you say, damning - was completed and then given to this scum, who withheld it, released a “summary”, claimed it found no wrongdoing whatsoever, eventually released a heavily redacted version…
I mean I remember it happening. This slimy fuck. He got a report that said the many ways Trump did illegal shit, but since he was the one who could choose when and how to release it, he was able to get ahead of the media by saying all kinds of bullshit lies. By the time he was finally forced to release the real report, it was too late, the “Trump did nothing wrong” story was already too far out there.
Look, I’m glad he finally, barely, by the skin of his teeth did the right thing and said there was no fraud in the 2020 election. But we should not forget that brazen bullshit he pulled in front of Congress and the American people.
Exactly. It’s insane we need to remember details like this but here we are.
In addition to being done right, he has to be pampered. I hate him passionately, but I really mean that. Subjecting him to the indignities of stuff like handcuffs, a mugshot, an orange suit, etc will turn him into a martyr in the eyes of his cult followers. And while the rest of us would enjoy seeing it, that’s not necessarily bringing out the best in us either. Donald Trump is an enormous pot-stirrer and unless you really want the pot to boil over you need to tiptoe around him, as unfair as that is.
turn him into a martyr in the eyes of his cult followers
they’re gonna continue to be terrorists no matter what we do and I’m sick of bowing to their terrorism
Choosing not to aggravate them is not bowing to them. Remember we’re talking about how we’ll prosecute Dear Leader. Get him where it counts, even if it has to be done quietly.
this former president is nothing short of a cult leader with millions of unshakable followers, many of whom are armed to the teeth and ready to burn this country to the ground for him
They didn’t show up for the last coup, and I don’t think he’s gonna have another one.
It’s very political, because of course it is!
As the president, and now ex-president, of the United States there are a significant number of political factions at play. If you’re going to go for the king you better not miss, definitely applies to the politics of the president.
People in his orbit, don’t have the same political protections, they won’t create as much trouble when they go down. So they go down. They simply don’t have the protection the leader has.
It’s very political, because of course it is!
The fact that the political is influencing the judicial is a thing should warrant a “very unfortunately”, being an utter travesty of the very concept of separation of powers. That it gets an “of course” says a lot about the state of the system itself.
Trump has avoided legal trouble so far because there hasn’t been enough evidence to guarantee charges would stick. With the latest few indictments, he either basically admitted to the charges or other new evidence came to light. It’s taken so long because the prosecutors are making sure they built absolutely bulletproof cases, and because the nature of the trials (first time a former president has been charged), and because trump’s lawyers are trying to delay as much as possible. It’s basically a huge mess, but the general sentiment is that trump is screwed… Eventually.
He’s committed many crimes with enough evidence against him. He announced on TV he was obstructing justice. The justice department refused to charge him cause he was president, hinting he could be impeached.
You sit through seasons of the Sopranos wondering the same thing about Tony.
They need to do it properly, in such a way they won’t hamstring themselves in the future. Remember, theyre just as bad, just not as public.
No they aren’t just as bad.
The most practical answer is because he’s watched by the Secret Service 24/7, which isn’t the case with a lot of people.
It’s a good question - all Constitutional scholars agree he has violated Section 3 of the 14th Amendment and is therefore ineligible to hold any political office (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/) but does America have the collective strength to admit it?
“All”? If you can’t even get all dentists to agree you should use toothpaste, I doubt it. More importantly, he’s not convicted of anything yet
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odds are he will be
This answer doesn’t address the question. Did you comment on the wrong post or are you just generally always this confused?
The laws for who goes on the ballot are set by the individual states.
I suppose the Federal Election Committee could deny his federal application, or the Attorney General of the U.S. could sue the FEC to force an injunction against his filing under the 14th? It’s not clear.
In any case, regardless of how it got there, it would end up in court and be decided by the Supreme Court, which is ultra conservative right now.
Bla bla bla.
It’s not ambiguous. You either follow the Constitution or you are a traitor to it.
I’m literally describing to you how that process works. It doesn’t matter by what avenue it happens, it’ll absolutely end up in front of the supreme Court, and then they’ll get to decide to agree with whatever decision was made or reverse it.
Unless they have a reason to lock him up to protect their own interests, the Supreme Court is probably not going to do shit. That’s WHY Trump picked them, as an “insurance measure”, and unfortunately it seems to be working.
If you come for the King, you best not miss.
This is what it boils down to. All this time, I kept seeing all the shit he did and kept wondering the same question. But the flurry of indictments over the past little while has answered it: they were biding their time, making sure all their ducks were in a row, so they could all collectively take one giant, perfect, swing for the fences. We can only hope they don’t miss.
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This is probably a correct assumption, plus it also keeps it relevant. More of his supporters/underlings going to jail and it keeps the heat on. It drew it out for how long and now the nation is ramping up for another election and Trump’s indictments start flying in.
The indictments have boosted Trump’s popularity though.
Is there any evidence that Trump has gained fans because of this? I cannot fathom how that could work.
“gained fans” is problematic because it’s subjective, but it’s being widely reported that his polling has improved with the indictments. This is the first hit in search with some details but there are many articles like it.
Briefly, the narrative that it’s a politically motivated witch hunt is resonating with voters.
If the trump era taught me only a couple things, one of them is that polls aren’t really very useful.
Yeah I don’t doubt there are some folks who now are more motivated to vote for trump… however that really exceeds the number who turned away from him?
What other criminal in history survives literally infinite evidence against them, and not just with their existing supporters, but also that evidence actively somehow turns NEW people in their favor? AND those new people outnumber the people who finally realize the truth??I just had a literal nightmare and this scenario feels right at home in the fucked world my mind conjured.
Yeah, but also remember that if there is one thing history taught us, it is that a non popular voted president can win still. Many of us were in disbelief when it happened with this guy.
Also, don’t underestimate the fact that people may disagree with Trump, but they only have to disagree/hate Biden more in order to vote for this guy.
So yes, I do agree that his polls may be increasing or rather, I never underestimate that they could be.
All fair points. I’m not resting on my laurels though. I’m just against the idea that we should be timid about prosecuting the motherfucker because of polls
one of them is that polls aren’t really very useful
IDK about this. We’ve certainly learned that polls are poor predictors of election outcomes, but can they at least reveal trends like “approval is increasing/decreasing” ? IDK.
Maybe, but it’s hard not to feel really cynical about any positive change a poll seems to indicate.
I watch a lot of automotive content on YouTube, and it’s been interesting seeing right wing ads evolve (and yes, the fact that I like cars means they think I’m conservative bums me out, I also subscribe to bicycle stuff and climatetown, but whatever).
There’s a new one that is basically “Trump will lose to Biden again. Vote for anyone but him in the primary.” Kinda warmed my heart a bit.
They are also worried about setting dangerous precedents in the process of closing these loopholes we didn’t think needed closing (like the largely ceremonial congressional ratification of votes on Jan 6,or the peaceful transition of power in general) and dismantling an enterprise whose director continually aims to obstruct a good faith process to the bitter end (Trump’s attacks on legislative and judicial branches, specifically DOJ and it’s bureaus).
Also, he’s not exactly “free.”. That being said, it is truly infuriating, and detrimental to all of us, consciously and subconsciously. It’s like Republicans are living out the ending of “Requiem for a Dream.”
He’s a Honeypot /s
