This question was inspired by a post on lemmy.zip about lowering the minimum age to purchase firearms in the US, and a lot of commeters brought up military service and training as a benchmark to normal civilians, and how if guns would be prevalent, then firearm training should be more common.
For reference, I live in the USA, where the minimum age to join the military is 18, but joining is, for the most part, optional. I also know some friends that have gone through the military, mostly for college benefits, and it has really messed them up. However, I have also met some friends from south korea, where I understand military service is mandatory before starting a more normal career. From what I’ve heard, military service was treated more as a trade school, because they were never deployed, in comparison to American troops.
I just wanted to know what the broader Lemmy community thought about mandatory military service is, especially from viewpoints outside the US.
I like the idea because it gives people job experience and forces them to interact with a broader cross-section of society, and might help some people who wouldn’t otherwise do so consider it as a career, making the military more diverse. It also helps us be more prepared in the event of a major war. And obviously teenage conscripts should never be given combat deployments unless the homeland is literally being invaded, we’ve seen how traumatic that is even for people who self-select into it. I very much doubt it would do anything to decrease gun violence.
The stuff we’re finding out about modern war is that it’s all brain damage. If you’re regularly firing rounds of any kind then you’re damaging your brain. In a normal training environment it’s not really noticeable. But when you start going through entire cargo trucks of shells, bullets, or missiles on a daily basis then real damage is happening. There isn’t anything you can do to mitigate it and still fight a war.
With this new understanding of what’s happening in war zones our society needs to have a really big conversation on just when it’s okay to put any soldiers into combat.
how if guns would be prevalent
hahahaha ‘would’ hahahhahhah. hilarious.
a huge contigent of domestic terrorism in the united states is ex-military white guys. also, a huge percentage of the homeless population are veterans… it clearly leaves a psychological stain we then refuse to mop up. but yeah, lets push everyone through agencies with the worst sexual assault tallies in the country. awesome.
You don’t use a mop to clean up a stain, you mop up a spill which can then leave a stain. You have to scrub a stain and maybe use something like vinegar or baking soda.
Conscription is slavery if the people are not under imminent threat.
Conscription will always be used as weapon of the rich against the poor.
Conscription will never affect the children of the rich as much as it affects the poor.
Conscription does demystify military service and can teach useful skills.
Balancing these and other factors is always the trick.
I’d prefer a voluntary military service in a society that strongly encourages people to sign up for short service periods and doesn’t lock them in for years as an anti-abuse measure, as a training program for a more popular citizen militia defense scheme.
I read a novel written by a Vietnam era draftee.
There was a scene where two draftees were talking about ending the draft. One was against it because it would mean that all the people in the Army would be ‘lifers’ and lifers were the ones who were quickest to massacre civilians.
Hunter Thompson wrote about it once. His opinion was that when he served, a lot of upper class families sent their sons to the Army. That meant that they were meeting and working with all types of people.
My personal take is that it’s a good thing, if there’s a non-military equivalent, something like FDR’s CCC
Fortunate_Son.wav
As an Australian I have no interest in “defending” a country that’s rampant with shit stain politcans, their oligarchs, along with their supporters and retinue.
Cumpolsory military service my sweet asshole.
Just imagine if instead of millitary service, it was compulsary public service that actually benefitted society. Nursing, construction/infrastructure, farming, teaching/childcare, etc.
Its astrounding how much money is pumped into the military industrial complex when it could be used to fund to many other programs for public good.
But that would be sOciALiSm.
This is exactly what I would want a compulsory service to look like.
Fuck the military, let’s build bridges and houses and schools, and cafeterias, and farms, and staff them. Roads and hospitals.
Nobody ever needed to make a fucking bomb
I think compulsory retail service would fix society.
I fully support this. It would help on so many levels. Provide a cheap workforce to help with currently in demand stuff and fix shit, help young people get away from home, get a new view on life and get some starter cash, and mix people from all walks of life. I genuinely see no downside.
More hilarious when considering the US Military is an inherently socialist institution.
My sister and brother-in-law will go to the commissary, stay on base housing, get their paycheck from the US Govt., receive public Healthcare, and the GI Bill, then promptly go home and post on Facebook about how socialism bad.
Realizing the US Army is the most socialist institution I’ve ever encountered didn’t happen till years after I was out, lol
You want school? Get it! You want food? Get it! You want clothes? You already fucking got em
I’m not sure from the context of your comment with that “most socialist” line if you know or not but…
Socialism is the workers owning the means of production. End line.
Everything else is just how the society organizes itself. The US Army seeing to the basic needs of its troops is not socialism, it is the government doing things. Scandinavian countries providing maternity and unemployment benefits is not socialism. It is the government doing things.
The US Army is not socialism. Nor is any other professional military, not even the ones working for socialist states. They are organizations trading capital for labor to empower the state.
If you were a slave soldier, taken in a war raid, working for a monarch like the Janissaries, they would probably still provide you all of the necessities to function, even spending money to entertain yourself and maintain morale, and it wouldn’t be socialism either.
Socialism is the workers owning the means of production.
For instance, Trump’s plan for the feds to buy TikTok
Hell no.
The premise of M-L types who wanted the state to control production for the workers is that the government was the workers, aka the dictatorship of the proletariat. In doing so excess production would be traded within the system to provide things like healthcare and housing.
In theory.
That obviously didn’t work out too hot, but even that is different in theory from a fascist or otherwise oligarchal state controlling production for the benefit of the owner class with absolutely no pretentions of providing social services with the profits. They are proudly ripping up any social safety net they find as a matter of ideology.
Tl;Dr it’s quite literally the opposite of socialism when kings or oligarchs control and profit from the state owned enterprise. That is just the eponymous late stage capitalism, or neofeudalism/technocracy depending on the angle you want.
It’s socialism as described by the GOP though, which is why it’s so funny.
Yeah, but at the same time that’s how they logic themselves into “the more things the government does the more socialist it is, and when it does a lot of things, that’s communism.”
All that misinformation has a purpose, and it’s not to make the world a better place.
This exists in Austria. Males have to choose between 6 months of military or 9 months of public service. Interestingly enough the existence of the public service option has been a strong reason why people voted against removing the mandatory service some years ago.
Out of curiosity, what do they do for public service?
Driving ambulance cars and doing first aid, helping in kindergarten, retirement homes, homeless shelters, institutions for people with disabilities,…
The ambulance is probably the most popular position, you can also choose what you want to do to a certain extent.
I don’t think that would be any better. It is still compulsory service and a violation of people’s individual freedoms to choose how to live their lives.
(and many countries do allow that as an alternative e.g. for conscientious objectors)
Nobody should be forced to be a war machine. If you want, you can encourage it, give it appealing perks, but ultimately the decision should be down to the individual if they want to spend a chunk of their life on that.
It’s a terrible idea. Isn’t the military a strong enough institution in the US as it is? What right does the government have to rob years from the lives of their youth by having them go play soldier, especially in times of peace?
Mandatory military service is the one case where accelerationism might possibly make sense. The fact that the military is made up of volunteers makes it harder to radicalize, and people are more willing to support war because, “The soldiers chose to be there.” Go ahead, rip people away from the comfort of our homes, give us guns and training, and tell us we have to go risk our lives murdering brown people on the other side of the world in pointless conflicts in service of corporate interests - it’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off for them.
I oppose the draft because I wouldn’t want to subject myself or others to that. But at the same time, I dare them to try it.
Fuck that noise.
In Switzerland we do mandatory military service or public service if you don’t do the military.
Both are ok, I only know the military but it’s a good experience. At first you don’t really want to do it but then you have a lot of fun, drink tons of cheap beers and learn to shoot (skill that you have to maintain for several years with mandatory shooting sessions).
Overall it’s more of a school of life rather than military school. I knew people in the medics and they did jack shit. I was in DCA and did jack shit. Most people I talk to did dumb stuff and most of us have good and funny memories from that time.
Is this a useful military force? Probably not, but we are Switzerland so who cares?
Depends on the unit. I did it in the infantry and it sucked. Would never do it again.
That’s what I heard as well, the few grenadiers I know told me the same.
It seems that they are the only ones having to do the usual crap and suffering.
Yeah it is awesome, it just cost me a year of my professional career without any real benefits…
And our military is mostly regarded as a joke, I am seriously not sure why we even have it. It would probably collapse in days if it needs to defend our country.
I like it for the unifying experience it is. We all do it, it becomes part of our education and gives us the feel of all being Swiss besides our different cultures and languages.
But seeing every votes results (Röstigraben, cities vs countryside) proves that it is not a huge success 😅
One thing I don’t like at all is that in order to climb high hierarchy in some companies, you have to be a former military officer, preferably Swiss-German (bonus point if you’ve done a shit economy school).
When I started learning my job we could do our military service AT work as it was considered to be an essential nation wide security job. I did not profit from this but the deal was to go to work in military uniform, getting your salary paid by the military while continuing to work for your boss. Definitely a win for the company and a huge financial loss for the confederation. They stopped that when they realized it was dumb to pay salaries to people not actually working for you.
Works best for countries that have a primarily defensive military. You have a large population of resevists to draw on for an invasion, and unless there’s something wack going on with your government, there usually isn’t a problem of motivating draftees when your country was invaded.
Volunteer militaries tend to need propaganda to get people to join up, even in relative peacetime. That attracts a lot of people who like the idea of shooting people in other countries. Not everyone who joins up is like that, of course. Some are also in bad economic situations and have no other line of work, and some bow to family pressure. In any case, you’ll have an easier time convincing them to fight people abroad.
At least in the US, many young small time criminals are given the choice of jail or military.
It’s against human rights, and severely fucked-up
It’s ridiculous and should never be implemented.
Did mandatory service, and no, it shouldn’t be a thing. It’s not that you would be fighting in the frontline that it sucks (it is a possibility, but doubt it would happen any time soon), it’s that you can’t do much during that period that makes it annoying, and you’re paid below min wage for it. It also imposes restrictions on you before you complete your service in case you try to avoid it. You also do it during the 20s, and that’s just a waste of time.
