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- cross-posted to:
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Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
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Both parties support Israel. Trump reined them in so that he could reallocate his resources and make headway on his own foreign policy, but has no problem seeing Gaza stolen from the surviving Palestinians.
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Did any of the Palestinians ever regret all those kidnappings? It brought so much suffering, yet no word of regret and still some hostages remain.
Americans have no choice but bring Trump to justice STAT.
Do the commenters here really believe the outcome would have been different for the Palestinians if Donald didn’t win? Why?
I really believe the outcome for the millions of brown and queer people in America would have been different if Trump didn’t win.
And my ‘why’ here has been the same why for months- why did that not matter?
So, your desired outcome was to keep the genocides in foreign lands going, to maybe slow it down in the US?
You seem to think “desired outcome” is the same as “outcome I thought was achievable.” They are completely different.
So, what change un outcome did you expect? Because I didn’t expect either candidate to care about dead Palestinians, or exploited workers at home…
I expected people to give a shit about brown and queer people in the U.S.
But they didn’t.
Including you, apparently.
When did voters, or the Dems, actually do anything for brown and Black people in the US?
More cops doesn’t count…
“Other people didn’t care, so I didn’t either” is not the robust self-defense you think it is.
Yes. For one, Israel had already started on their zone idea. For two, Blinken was advocating for a two state solution because that was one of the requirements for Saudi Arabia to establish ties with Israel.
I can’t imagine the Middle East is going to be content with this occupation, especially if it leads to a new trail of tears.
Cope
Exactly. Kamala isn’t facing AIPAC anymore. She’s not running for office. She faces literally zero downside in publicly condemning the idea. Since she isn’t condemning it now, why would anyone assume she would do it if she were currently president, when the pressures against her would be much higher?
“She’s not a public figure anymore, she’s a private citizen, why isn’t she condemning this?” Where? In congress? In the white house? How do you know she’s not being vocal about this?
Because the internet exists and you’d be blasting it right now if you could.
Yes the internet exists, but if she hasn’t been able to make a public statement about every bat shit idea, or if there is no recording of her saying anything of it, it couldn’t be shared.
Trump has no authority over the Palestinian people and/or territories.
They hate poor people - it’s their agenda
Wow it’s almost like this was predictable. Good thing all those liberals who didn’t vote for Harris could not have possibly known Trump would be even worse…
The amount of hatred against phantom leftists that on the one hand lost the Dems the vote and on the other were too weak to have their demands considered is crazy.
No, these people didn’t lose you the vote. They don’t even exist in this ambivalent form. It was everyday citizens that heard Democrats push the same racist border talking points Trump spewed last election and went “Hm, if even the Dems say this is a problem, I’ll vote the party that talked about how evil Migrants were for decades, the GOP”. It’s people tired of increasingly struggling to make ends meet and the Dems saying everything will stay the same, while Trump promised them change. We know that he just means destroying the last remnants of social security nets for poor people and everything that stands in the way for oligarchs making kaijulllian dollars. But people are stupid and desperate. Why can’t the Democratic party be held to a higher standard than whatever this is?
gotta make room for the new golf course.
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This thread is so fucking gross. Liberals aren’t as morally bankrupt as conservatives but they make up for it in being infinitely more smarmy and fucking disgusting.
You don’t give a shit about Gaza, you just wanna score points
I hope that everything you want to happen to Gaza happens to each and every one of you.
I too hope to avoid genocide, but unfortunately, it would seem neither Gaza nor me will be avoiding it under the Trump presidency.
Seems like a good reason to stay home then.
Seems like a good reason to stay home then.
What?
If you want the anti genocide vote, run an anti genocide candidate. Simple as.
I hate that “If you can’t stop one specific genocide, you shouldn’t stop any genocides” is unabashedly the point of view being put forward by abstainers and their apologists now that Trump is in office. Utterly abhorrent.
But you need to score those internet purity points, fuck people like me who’ll be going to the camps, right?
Should have run a not dogshit candidate. The bar is in hell, it’s not that hard
The choice was status quo vs all the genocide and you couldn’t even bring yourself to do the bare minimum.
You don’t have the high ground you think you do.
Should have run a not dogshit candidate. The bar is in hell, it’s not that hard
“Genocide for the filthy poors to punish the Dem party elites who made the campaign decisions and won’t feel a thing. That’ll show 'em!”
Fucking amazing.
Casting a vote for anyone in the last election wasn’t going to halt any genocide.
That was the problem.
Casting a vote for anyone in the last election wasn’t going to halt any genocide.
Fucking what.
You looking at the same Trump administration I’m looking at? Because the next four years have genocide on the domestic agenda.
Or is your argument that Harris would be ‘just as bad’?
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no. we’re pissed at people like you because you bought obvious right wing propaganda and refuse to own it. you ignored the principals of harm reduction in the anarchist movement to keep your soul clean. you don’t care about what action in a given moment of time will result in the best outcome for the people you claim to care about. you care about being seen as right. i want to know. did you talk to anyone at the protests? did you talk to any Palestinians? because the people out there in the streets knew what was stake. we voted for kamala. we held our nose and did it because of the candidates who had a chance of becoming president, she gave us the best chances of continuing to fight for human rights.
and do you know what i noticed? your ilk has all but vanished from these leftist spaces online after the election. honestly, it’s friggin’ exhausting having people like you saying people like us are just trying to score points or virtue signaling.
yes. kamala harris, joe biden, and hillary clinton are all awful people who suck, and the democrats tried to get away with running someone right of what their base wanted because donald trump was SO HORRIBLE. that doesn’t change the fact that donald trump really is SO HORRIBLE
My l*beral in christ I literally voted for kamala
Believe it or not, not everyone who doesn’t like liberals is a conservative or “tankie”, it’s just that nobody likes you. “Meet an asshole every day” and all that
voting is not harm reduction
it’s a tiny itsy bitsy miniscule aspect of it
no, harm reduction is recognizing the harm is going to come, and mitigating the consequences. it’s not voting for someone who might only cause some harm.
yes. and for 20 minutes to 3 hours on election day that was casting a ballot. like i said. it’s a teeny tiny itsy bitsy aspect. it’s not everything, but in a lot of ways if you can’t bring yourself to even inconvenience yourself that little bit…
casting a ballot is not harm reduction
we’re talking in circles. today is a big day for me. i suggest instead of responding to me when you’re completely entrenched into your way of thought you spend some time today with some other marginalized people and help them out. i’m done with this conversation. it’s clear you’re the type of anarchist from David Rovics’ “i’m a better anarchist than you”
What have you done to mitigate the consequences?
Trained two people in the use of firearms yesterday. Sunday, I hosted first aid training for a dozen people.
Next week, a general assembly for my block is happening, to plan gardens.
What are you doing or have done to actually reduce harm?
So absolutely nothing that will stop the genocide in Palestine.
What I have done is spend hours of my time making calls, writing emails and going directly to the offices of politicians to demand they do something.
But sure, I haven’t trained anyone not in Palestine how to use firearms or do first-aid training because those are 100% irrelevant.
What harm is reduced by voting for crimes against humanity, and continuing the oppression of the working class domestically and abroad?
the vote was between “harm stays the same” and “harm gets worse”
the harm is getting worse
we were still going to work on mutual aid, educating children, harm prevention, putting out messaging about the truth to wake up our fellow brethren. just now we have to do it while our most marginalized sisters are slipping into hiding because they’re at more risk of being detained for speaking up and speaking out.
anyway. i’m done with this thread. today is a big day in my community. please spend some time today with your marginalized sisters. they need you.
So…. Are both sides still the same? Asking for a friend.
Yes, they’re doubling-down.
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Put the rhetoric aside, and the answer is yes. Israel stole a lot of land from Palestinians under both Democratic and Republican presidents and kept them under an oppressive apartheid system depriving them of their rights. Both parties vetoed UN resolutions to stop or even condemn the practice.
The Israeli government proposed annexing the West Bank in violation of international law, and while one president said he disagreed with the idea, he said he’d back Israel if they did. The other one said he’d support the idea and back Israel either way. Putting aside the rhetoric or intentions, the action is the same. That’s why Palestinians aren’t cheering when one party wins over another in US elections, because they saw what happened when republicans or democrats won; their situation didn’t change. If you feel otherwise, go visit and talk to them like I did.
Alright. So let’s assume for the moment that you’re right, and both parties would do exactly the same thing regarding Palestine. Just for the sake of argument.
Then they’re still not the same.
Would Kamala have handed entire departments of the U.S. government over to Musk? Would Kamala have signed a bazillion EO’s, taking away people’s rights? Would Kamala send thousands of people to Guantanamo? Would she have allowed ICE to raid schools or hospitals? Would she be systematically erasing transgender people from public life? Would Kamala be scrubbing databases and removing information (CDC for example), or making people waste time to delete certain terms from every database and website because of “woke” or “DEI”? Would Kamala have taken the U.S. out of the WHO? Or the Paris Agreement? Would Kamala be threatening to annex Greenland? Or start trade wars with allies? Or do petty shit like removing the option for regular Americans to file taxes for free online? Or pardon 1500+ violent idiots, at least 4 of whom have already been commiting new (and running from old) crimes? Would she install an antivaxer, who also promotes raw milk, to Health and Human Services? Or abolish the Department of Education?
Would she, would she, would she?
They. are. not. the. same.
And you repeating the same tired bullshit over and over and over will not suddenly make it true. You can try to convince yourself that what you did was the morally right thing, but in your own words: put aside the rhetoric and intentions. The consequences are on you.
But anyway, we both know that Kamala would not be the same regarding Gaza. Never would she have said she wants to “take over Gaza” and “own it” and to turn it into the “Riviera of the Middle East” to create “thousands of jobs.” She would never have proposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think she would have done anything to actually help Palestinians, aside from some symbolic stuff or vague threats she will never act on. Somehow Americans seem to just love Israel, whatever horrific shit they pull, they’ll always side with Israel.
But “both sides are the same” is a blatant fucking lie.
This is a disingenuous argument. Republicans and Democrats are not the same EXCEPT ON PALESTINE. You’re beating a strawman.
The rest of it is arguments over rhetoric. Put the comments by Trump aside; in actuality if Netanyahu annexed West Bank or mass deported Gazans, Kamala and Trump would both continue to support Netanyahu financially and militarily even if they had different press releases ranging from concern to praise. Kamala refused to promise to enforce the Leahy Law and Trump isn’t either.
It’s not a strawman, it’s the truth.
Trump is orders of magnitude worse regarding pretty much everything, so even if Kamala is ‘the same’ on Palestine, all the other stuff would still be better with her in stead of Trump. If you truly believe they are the same regarding Palestine, then they basically cancel each other out, right? Then you should look at everything else and it’s quite obvious they are not the same at all.
Look, I don’t want to be the person who needs to boil things down to simple math. But don’t you think that “Fuck Palestine” is better than “Fuck Palestine. And transgender people. And women. And the environment. And the Department of Education. And migrants, and and and”?
Tell me, how is one not worse than the other?
You’re still strawmanning, because it’s no secret that Harris was better than Trump on literally every issue except Palestine. I admitted it above and you gloss over that so you can repeat the same thing as if you’re not listening. Trump is doing all the horrible things he promised he would do. You’re trying to blame me for this even though I wanted Trump to lose too. Peace.
Edit: you’re still ignoring what I said and trying to talk past me. Blame Kamala for deciding she would rather sacrifice votes and risk her own election than say anything against Israel. That’s on her and not the voters. She couldn’t even call for a ceasefire but Trump did. That should tell you how bad Kamala was blowing it. And we’re not quiet, the Palestinians are still suffering but now that the election is over you and the Democratic leaders decided to ignore us because you never cared. I’m not gloating because we knew this would end badly and spent over a year trying to warn the Democrats, meanwhile so many “liberals” are trying to rub it in our faces as if they weren’t the ones who lost.
It was a rhetorical question. The answer is demonstrably no.
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Both sides aren’t exactly the same, but why don’t you want more differences?
Sides could be irrelevant of we replaced First-past-the-post voting with a more representative electoral system. The solution is more democracy, not gleefully telling people they have no choice but to vote for your preference.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
We know.
But that wasn’t the point, was it?
Evangelicals support this message. Forcing the end times one way or another.
Been a good long while since we’ve had a crusade. Y’all still got yer hats?
shooting Palestinians
“Seems like you guys have no choice here but to leave”
If he said this to people in my home town, there would be 1 resounding answer from those left standing “Live free or Die” so actually Palestinians that have nothing to lose because it was taken from them, literally don’t have a choice but to stay and fight the boot on their neck.
