Let the apologists have a field day in the comments.
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You should have done the 2nd half in ascii art because terminal ;)
2nd half in raw binary because I use Arch btw.
2nd half in uncompiled source code because gentoo
Sure… Want to fix the stupid new menus in windows 11? Oh it is just a new guid key in the registry in a location you wouldn’t expect. You know just cut and paste shit into the registry you found on the internet. Windows is just as annoying, if not more so.
In any case: what system GUI’s do you want? GUIS make everything so much harder, careful what you wish for.
Does Windows 11 still use the Windows 7 control panel?
They deprecated that to prevent users from messing with things
No, there’s a couple rogue advanced dialogues but the control panel’s finally been well replaced
rip in peace, control panel. will be missed.
Ehhhh, you can still get in there. Also there are several control panel only functions. It’s been pretty frustrating how they’ve incremented change. I feel like they should have gone menu by menu in control panel and just built their new settings application page by page and then just pushed one big control panel alternative. Then they could phase the old one out or leave it in for legacy users or whatever. But the new settings and how that menu changes every few months is frustrating as hell.
Windows users are used to everything being so locked down that it’s virtually impossible to mess up your system… lots of this stuff is in config files because exposing it for everyday users would be asking for people to completely brick their workflow.
The Linux equivilent of this is atomic/immutable distros (SteamOS and Android being the most popular examples, but Fedora also has one that’s fairly popular).
If you put every option in a GUI, there would be so much stuff that nobody could find anything.
That’s why you put it in 3, with no rhyme or reason for which goes wear
Now we got it only in config files where we can’t find anything. Also don’t you put a single wrong character in there, it could break everything.
Well-made GUIs can even prevent disaster by exposing settings in a diggestable way and making sure entries are properly edited. Good UI/UX conveys functionality through form and can be navigated intuitively.
To make settings inaccessible on purpose or even alienate people deemed “too stupid” for them is called Tech Paternalism, and it fucking sucks.
A well-documented config file is like the exact opposite of “tech paternalism”.
To make settings inaccessible on purpose or even alienate people deemed “too stupid” for them is called Tech Paternalism, and it fucking sucks.
You’re referring to Windows Registry right?
I think you just discribed windows I know my head hurts looking at GPOs.
No Windows put everything in a GUI, then added a second GUI that didn’t quite have all the functionality of the first one so kept both around, then despite the second GUI existing for nearly 10 years it still couldn’t do everything the first one could and then they completely redesigned it rather than just introducing all the functionality from the first GUI, but they removed some of the functionality of the second GUI from the first GUI so now both GUIs are incomplete and full of functions that just link to the other GUI
That’s basically Sharepoint. You better bookmark the three different Web pages because they have different options you won’t find on the two other. But also just finding and remembering those three Web pages is a Pita. I or better yet, never have to manage Sharepoint pages. This stuff is worse than printers.
Oh god don’t get me started on SharePoint, I only recently discovered that disabling permission inheritance doesn’t actually disable permission inheritance…
As kludgey as they are, though, I do wish there was a good replacement for GPOs in Linux
There is and it can be mapped to GPOs when connecting to AD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Security_Services_Daemon
As cool as that is, I’m only seeing authentication and rights management, which have little to do with what GPOs do
It’s limited of course https://4sysops.com/archives/applying-group-policy-to-linux-using-sssd/
That’s not just limited, that’s an incredibly tiny bit of user rights assignments, which is an incredibly tiny part of group policy and does nothing to configure the system… It’s useful, but not really what I’m talking about
12 years ago maybe, plasma made a lot of improvements since then
Can I edit systemd services and bootloader settings somewhere?
Systemdgenie is good enough for me, but that’s just me.
There really aren’t any simple settings for grub that need a GUI and honestly the systemd service CLI for enabling starting and disabling is pretty damn easy
sysctl, anyone?
What people expect:
✅Fix my box
❎Fuck my shit up
What we would get: System Kernel Interface
🔳 Regex Recursion
🔳 Kernel Language (Internal) [Dropdown: en-us, Dvorak, binary, Klingon, non-binary (Borg analog), Esperanto]
🔳 Ignore LPT on fire
🔳 Memory hole on sysctl
🔳 Mansplain man(8)
I expect a Red x
Yeah some people seem to have this expectation that there should just magically be a button to unbreak the PC. They talk about their personal pain points when using Linux as if there’s a conspiracy of devs to hide the unbreak buttons for the sake of elitism, but that… just isn’t a thing? If it was that easy to fix an issue, you probably wouldn’t need to fix it because the system would already come unbroken by default. I sympathize with everyone’s Bluetooth configuration woes but mostly it’s a pain in the ass because Bluetooth, in general, is a pain in the ass, not because of elitist devs (who I should mention are doing this in their free time for no pay. There’s almost no money in desktop Linux, unlike in servers).
Not entirely accurate since the majority of Linux system settings are in fact GUI settings, you forget the Linux under the hood is all pure text based meaning it’s just GUI settings and worse GUI settings.
Wait, do you argue that a terminal emulator is just another GUI but with a huge text box? 😅
If we want to be technical even the terminal itself is a GUI just not a very interactive one, technically anything(most things) outside of the grub loader, bios and drives are part of the gui, I will concede that that is not a very useful definition but when dealing with edge cases like terminal emulators you would have to say it is indeed part of the gui at least technically.
It’s called a terminal emulator because it emulates graphically what used to output to a printer at the console of a mainframe. Then you got CRT monitors. The mainframes like the PDP-10 would output to a printer or CRT monitor. This was your terminal. A printer writes the output from the mainframe 1 character at a time, left to right, top to bottom. The CRT monitors were made to do the same. Obviously before outputting to a printer or CRT monitor, the output would show on a set of lights on the console. If you watched them change enough, you would know where you were in your program as it ran (obviously something only doable because the opcodes were not running in parallel through super scalar pipelines in the Ghz). With printers and monitors, you could increase the amount of feedback you get from the running or exiting program and give input to the system via a keyboard.
So, the terminal is not “technically” a GUI. We do use a GUI to emulate a terminal which receives the actual terminal output from the system and then displays it for you. They are not the same thing at all. GUI is a paradigm for what you display on a Monitor for the user to interact with. Modern monitors are fast enough that they can and do work well with the GUI paradigm. You definitely wouldn’t be sending GUI context to a printer.
Technically a terminal is a physical crt or phosphate or whatever old kind of monitor they had back then, the dot matrix printer was a tty or teletype system, the terminal emulator is emulating the the old dumb analog monitor on top of the digital os not necessarily the tty although the terminal was doing the same function as the tty, so a raw terminal would be graphical… I guess we are going so far back the words are losing meaning but the terminal emulator which runs on top of the GUI classifies as part of the GUI as much as notepad or word
“Is the X server part of the GUI” is a lot like the “Is water wet” debate
Look up what makes a GUI. Something can be graphical but not GUI. Something that is GUI is obviously graphical. “All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs”.
if you can’t use it without a monitor it’s graphical
So, if I switch the terminal output back to my dot matrix printer instead of my monitor, like back in the day, it’s not graphical right?
Yeah, some distros have GUIs for system settings, like openSUSE and Mageia, but advanced users will often even take that as a reason to not use those distros, because they themselves don’t need that on their system. And because not many advanced users use these distros, it’s hard to recommend them for noobs, because it makes it more difficult to find help resources. Kind of a stupid situation…
“I open bottlecaps with my mouth, so i don’t go to house where they have bottle openers.”
YaST on OpenSUSE is pretty nice.
I always viewed YaST as SMIT(ty) for linux. Haven’t looked at suse in forever, though.
I have no idea what SMIT(ty) is, so I’ll just smile and nod [smiles and nods]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Interface_Tool
It’s a menu driven system management tool for IBM’s AIX unix variant. Oddly enough, even Wikipedia shows the relationship from SMIT to YaST. Instead of just smile and nod, next time make up something about “smitty print” (damn near everything was under the “print submenu”, ostensibly because you were printing out the config to screen), and look like you are a grizzled veteran of corporate unix from the days of yore.
:-)
Here’s one:
Audio jacks. I have a 5.1 system, and to use it properly I have to install HDAJackRetask. You can’t just specify 5.1 surround sound from the distro’s standard audio settings menu.
Pavuctl still is kind of mandatory to have with most DEs (you should be able to set the proper audio profile in it for 5.1?). Amusingly even on Pipewire systems.
Especially weird to see on Gnome. Audio Settings are rather meh, you still can’t even set how the background is displayed since Gnome 3 either (centered, stretched, fit etc. - unless you know about the “optimizations” app) …but look at our new “Wellbeing” feature! 🦶
Another is fstab. You’ll often be told to go edit that by hand, often in the terminal. Adding a drive to an existing system and mounting it as part of the file system is a task an ordinary computer user would want to do.
I’m thinking about a gamer switching to Linux, and then saying something like “I wanna hook up my 5.1 speakers” or “I’m gonna buy a new SSD and add it to my existing system so I have room for more games.”
I’m not a proponent of making EVERYTHING a GUI setting because not even Microsoft does that but there are still some splintery edges in places people will actually touch that could use some sanding.
Hi. Are you referring to the “optimizations” app, gnome-tweaks ?
Exactly that one.
NixOS has the potential to do really well here. The Nix language has a rich enough type system to generate GUI forms for every field, and there are several projects being worked on that allow editing NixOS options from a GUI. They’re still very janky, but it’s definitely possible to get to a point where a layperson could operate them without breaking their system.
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What’s the deal with NixOS? I’ve never tried it
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Desktop Environments are decoupled from the underlying system. It makes switching DEs very easy but integration sucks.
I needed to flush dns on my Ubuntu machine. I googled it found a command for an older version. But of course the underlying stuff changed since then and that command doesn’t exist anymore.
The command to flush dns on Windows has been the same for decades. On Linux half the stuff I learn is going to be obsolete in a couple of years and that knowledge can’t be carried over to other Distros because they do it differently.
I also had to manually build and install a driver for a very common realtek wifi chipset that is not even new.
This is the reason I sometimes come back to the BSDs, they just feel more coherent as a whole.
If you don’t know what you’re doing, you have no reason to edit those settings.
Wanting a good GUI doesn’t mean you don’t know what you are doing.
Conversely, if it was presented in a more user friendly way, perhaps more people would know what they were doing.
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MY CREATOR USED LINUX TO DEVELOPE ME I FEEL COLD WHEN I EXTRACT MY DATA
No one should feel cold. Lets add some autoplay taboola ads to all of your screens so it wont feel so cold anymore. You’re welcome.
