Summary
Donald Trump stated that Palestinians displaced by Israel’s military actions would not have a right to return to Gaza under his plan.
Instead, he proposed resettling them in Egypt and Jordan, despite both nations rejecting the idea.
Trump suggested creating permanent refugee communities funded by the U.S., calling Gaza a “real estate development for the future.”
His proposal has drawn condemnation from Arab nations and legal experts, with the UN warning it could constitute ethnic cleansing and violate international law.
Israel’s far-right settlers welcomed the plan.
Lmao. Enjoy Dearborn, Michigan. When he kicks you out, you can join them in limbo.
“But if the Dems ran a better candidate…”
“But Harris didn’t even stop in Dearborn, so it’s her fault not ours”
“Sure, everything Trump says is a lie, but at least he stopped here to lie to our faces. It’s the dem’s fault.”
“One of Trump’s first acts last time was a Muslim ban, but I can’t be arsed to remember that far back”
“I had to vote for this otherwise the dems wouldn’t learn anything”
/s
But if the Dems ran a better candidate…
This is completely valid criticism. Stop pretending it’s not. The DNC is in the habit of specifically going out of their way to choose unpopular pundits, and that’s not voters fault.
Voting for Trump, or not voting is their fault…
You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins. “Not Trump” was not a candidate.
If Trump gets 49% of the vote, Harris 48%, and “other” gets 3%, that’s not counted as 51% against Trump and he loses. That’s Trump winning with 49% of the vote.
Anyone who didn’t vote (or didn’t vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.
most electoral college votes. Less people voted for trump than did for Hillary in 2016, and he still won.
You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins.
Which is exactly why in order to win an election, a campaign needs to offer concessions to voters to earn as many votes as possible.
Something the Democratic Party’s Campaign decisively chose not to do, and in fact do the opposite.
Instead of trying to secure hundreds of thousands to millions of constituents by supporting a permanent ceasefire and weapons embargo, a policy vastly supported by the Democrats own voter base (in addition to the majority of also independent and Republican voters), they instead alienated those voters by more than just ignoring their valid concerns.
They chose to arrest thousands of student protestors, gave billions of dollars to a genocide at the tax payers expense consistently for 15 months, actively suppressed the voices and representation of the main victims of the genocide, and campaigned with Liz Cheney (who was actively involved with the Bush-Cheney foreign policy in the middle east and enthusiastically pro ethnic cleansing of Palestinians). They chose to do all that instead of represent the view of the majority of their constituents and abide by domestic/international law.
And that was just one of the major issues, along with immigration and the economy, that tanked the approval of the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party wanted to actually win against Trump they would have done everything to gain as many votes as possible. They chose not to. They threw the election and let an unpopular fascist win.
Anyone who didn’t vote (or didn’t vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.
Two things can be true at once. Voters not voting is bad, and it’s their fault. The DNC being incapable of finding pundits people want to vote for is also bad, and is also their fault. Pointing one out, has nothing to do with the other and both of these factors led to the election of Donald Trump not once, but TWICE.
Pointing out the DNC’s responsibility to find electable candidates doesn’t elevate the voters responsibility. But if the DNC were capable of finding pundits voters wanted to vote for no issue would exist. You wouldn’t have people refusing to vote, or voting for Trump out of some fucked up sense of “haha, I’m gonna stick it to you!”
Pretending like this issue is solely at the fault of the voters is so fucking disingenuous, disgusting and partyist its insane.
The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.
It’s up to the voters to make smart choices, and some of them made the stupid choice.
The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.
You don’t have to convince me of this. I completely agree. I’ve said only that the DNC has a responsibility to provide something better than an Iguana and for the past three election cycles, that’s what we’ve got and people are pissed. But every time you try to have meaningful discourse about how the DNC is only supplying Iguana people treat you like you’re some kind of turncoat who voted for Trump. And that’s just bullshit.
We need to be mad at non-voters, people who “lashed out” and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC… It’s not entirely the voters fault and fuck anyone who says it is.
We need to be mad at non-voters, people who “lashed out” and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC
Please also try to funnel that anger into meaningful action. Staying mad at non-voters is understandable but also entirely unhelpful. Staying mad at the DNC however is both understandable and rational, and has the potential to drive change if you allow yourself to channel it into something productive.
YOU do not seem to know how elections work beyond a single cycle. You view each election as singular isolated event, and you have zero perspective of the grander game that’s played between cycles.
What exactly do you think would happen if 100% of Dem voters always “voted blue no matter who?” If every Dem vote is already locked in from day one, what incentive does the party have to do anything to actually represent them? This is why the Dems worked so hard to court Republicans to vote for Harris. They figured that the Dem base was so scared of Trump that their votes were already locked in.
If you want a party to actually represent your beliefs, there have to be some people on your side willing to walk away if the party drifts too far out of line. If no Democratic voters are ever willing to abandon a Democrat for being too conservative, then the Dem candidates will drift further and further right each cycle.
Yes, there’s the idea of democracy being on the line, but when is democracy NOT going to be on the line? And truthfully, the Democratic leaders proved that they were not reliable stewards of Democracy. The party that nominated Garland had zero ability to argue that they would defend democracy. Just look at how limp-wristed the Democrats in Congress have been in responding to Trump’s lawlessness. These people are not capable of defending democracy. Trump should have been thrown in Gitmo on day one of the Biden administration. Instead Biden nominated a Republican to be his attorney general, and the rest is history.
“Democrats will ignore you if they can always count on your vote”
“Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil”
And idiotic absolutism is why we’re in this mess.
Good job!
Edit: If you meant the /s on your comment, my bad. There’s just so many insane takes going around, I kind of need that to differentiate.
Maybe I’m just getting whooshed here, but aren’t you and atzanteol saying the same thing? lol
Are they just getting downvoted because the forgot the “/s”?
Are we? I feel like that’s a pretty necessary “/s” considering the mental gymnastics I’ve heard IRL and on Lemmy. If they edit their comment to add that very necessary qualifier, I’ll happily throw 'em an upvote. As-is, I genuinely have no idea.
I for sure hear you on the insane takes flying around! From the context it looked pretty clear to me that they were tagging on to your post rather than trying to contradict it, but who knows.
Posting sarcasm about a controversial topic without a “/s” tag is like fucking without a condom… it carries a risk, but sometimes you just gotta do what feels right!
our best bet was in the primaries in 2020. from there it’s all been about our best opportunities to keep trump away from power regardless. i know america sucks. i live here, too. but to act like voting for the lesser of two evils in a binary choice election was worse than letting trump have power is to dissengage from the fact that this is america. this is how the system is stacked against us. you don’t get to just magically not be part of it because you don’t like it. there was nothing stopping you from organizing resistance under kamala. but there’s plenty of violence under trump that’s making it hard to organize.
/s…
“we just had to teach the DNC a lesson at the polls during that specific election!!!”
Biden: I just have to aid genocide during an election year when I’m up against an absolute fascist.
Edit: cope and deal with it
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Is that not what happened? Lol
“Ooh I have a choice between genocide or genocide with extra fucking awful fascist bullshit. Which shall I choose? I know, I’ll go for the obviously worse option because I’m a good person” <— you
I voted dem, my state is blue, and we have a great local community. It’s been awful in Gaza long before trump. You can stand by whatever level of government funded genocide you want. There is nuance to voting, but not when I comes to aiding war crimes when you have complete power to stop sending munitions
Biden wasn’t the candidate.
Correct.
Kamala: I would do nothing different
She wouldn’t let a Palestinian speak at the DNC and pledged to do everything in her power to suck up to Netanyahu. There is so much cope here. There is no fucking difference between Biden, Kamala and Trump. They all suck off Satanyahu. The US is controlled by the Israel lobby. Mearsheimer has been screaming about this for 20 years.
Right, because Harris wanted to kick all of the Palestinians out so she could build a resort.
At least she and Biden attempted to negotiate peace.
Do you think the message got across to him? Did the DNC learn anything?
No, he’s a demented old man who broke many promises…like only running 1 term. That doesn’t mean you don’t say anything. It’s almost as if they are representing the will of the people…you need to show up and say something…like using your 1st amendment rights to organize and protest
Edit: fuck trump, his supporters & and anyone who can’t understand Biden’s role in giving the presidency back to trump. You can also add anyone in swing states that voted 3rd party/abstained
I’d like to earnestly suggest you reevaluate your strategy. Clearly threatening/withholding general election votes hasn’t been successful, and there’s obviously a lot of risk of negative outcomes like Trump winning. I think the general election is just too late in the process for a protest vote to mean anything.
I’m all for showing up and saying something, and I think pressure and threats during primary voting have worked in the past. I think we could have applied a LOT more pressure earlier in the process and might have had a better outcome. Now instead we have the worst possible result for the people of Palestine.
They did apply a lot of pressure during the primary. The total uncommitted in the Primary was 706,591 (Which may have been undercounted) which is absolutely massive for a primary. On average, general turnout is twice that of primary turnout. The Democratic Party knew that at they were risking at least 1.4 million votes by ignoring the issue. Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win. They also knew throughout the whole campaign that a vast majority of their constituents wanted weapons embargo and permanent ceasefire (required by domestic and international law), plus a majority of independents and Republicans. There was no valid reason for the Democratic Party to ignore the demands of that many voters, especially if trying to win an election
I wouldn’t hold my strategy at more fault that the DNC and it’s strategists. They’re the ones with a billion dollars at their disposal and it’s kind of their job to appeal to voters. People have needs and cutting off billions in “genocide-aid” seems like a no brainer. Countless opportunities to invoke the Leahy Act, win over more voters, and save some money.
…but I’m only a constituent, what do I know
Thank you for saving Gaza
🤡
You don’t make friends with genocide 🤷♂️
This was literally Bidens plan as well.
You can have fun laughing at people that didn’t want to vote for someone directly responsible for killing their families (as if you’d be different at all), but don’t do it because you think this is something worse that Trump is doing that Biden wouldn’t.
I mean Jordan said recently that they’d consider pushing refugees across their border an act of war. Trump’s “plan”, if it can even be called that, doesn’t include a realistic way to bring about all this. I think I represent a good number of Muslims when I way: Fuck him, but it ain’t happening.
Trump wants to own hotels and resorts in a razed and reconstructed Gaza. Do you think he cares where the Palestinians go? Do you think the rest of the world will want to look more deeply into it if he just says “they’ve been relocated, no I won’t tell you to where”?
He’s presenting a Palästinenserproblem. People should be watching very carefully.
Do you think the rest of the world will want to look more deeply into it if he just says “they’ve been relocated, no I won’t tell you to where”?
Well, I do suspect the EU will be more than a little miffed about it. Not enough to come to blows, but probably enough to sanction Israel. That said, that is secondary to the real problem with Trump’s plan: There’s no way the Arab states will agree to this. Assuming he does start exterminating Gazans they’ll flee to Israel, Jordan and Egypt, and while the IDF will be able to keep them from from crossing the border (mostly by killing everything that moves), it’s impossible to expect that of Egyptian and Jordanian soldiers. Gazans will cross over into these two countries, which will lead to a collapse of the peace treaties between them and Israel. Also on the home front, the outrage at all this just might be the last straw that gets an Arab head of state assassinated or lead to some kind of regime change. The former has precedent; this is what got Anwar El-Sadat. Now there’s a very real chance that Egypt, Syria and/or Jordan declare war over this, but even if they don’t this will isolate Israel in the region in a way it hasn’t been in decades. Even if Trump is okay with that, the Israeli government sure as hell isn’t. That’s what will ultimately throw a wrench into the whole thing.
Of course he does not. Every American president has always voted against Palestinian self-determination at the UN.
Aaaaand, why is the president of the US making plans for the people in a county he has no authority over again?
Predictable, but even so.
“plan”
Hey CNN, wanna interview those protest voters again?
Do you respect Palestinians or not?
This is such a thought terminating question being posed in bad faith.
You can respect and support the Palestinian people, and still realize that Harris was the best option for the Palestinians we had on the table. To not vote was giving a vote to trump, and trump is significantly worse than Harris for the Palestinians, this is objective truth, we have the facts in front of us right now.
Not voting was essentially voting against the Palestinian people.
Is it fair that we had the choices we had in November? No.
But the protest vote just turned into voting for this century’s Mussolini and a guy who’s doing his damnedest to start WW3.
Which seems…antithetical to the purpose of the protest vote? So who really won here?
But the Palestinian people didn’t vote for Kamala. That is like saying, us sophisticated Kamala genocide fans are smarter than you Palestinians & know what is best for you. So I ask again why do you not respect the Palestinians & what they wanted?
And your question is still fundamentally flawed.
We don’t get to vote for a candidate for the US of A that has the Palestinian people at the front of their agenda.
The Palestinian people who are not US citizens do not get a vote at all. Those that are US citizens chose to throw away their vote so they’re in the same camp as those who are not US citizens for the sake of the conversation/argument.
So, of the candidates that were presented, you have to choose the lesser of the two Evils (LEV) to have the greatest chance of accomplishing your goals, even if none of the options specifically further your goals. It’s about limiting the fallout/damage to your goals as much as possible.
This is something the Palestinian people who were US citizens chose not to do.
It is now why they are facing a much more serious threat from the US than they were during Biden’s administration. This is not to absolve the Biden/Harris administration, but to show that the reason things are worse now, is because, in large part, the Palestinian people who were US citizens chose the worse of the two options by not exercising their right to vote.
At no point in the process was there an option that would have accomplished what the Palestinian people would have wanted. To let the greater evil win because of that is going to be a very, very painful lesson for everyone involved, and I feel for the Palestinian people that are now going to be guaranteed to lose their home, their rights, and their freedoms because the new US Administration has even less respect and care for their rights than Biden’s.
So, back to your question.
The flaw is in assuming there was another option other than the LEV scenario playing out, and that the Palestinian people who were not US citizens had a vote here. They did not. They do not have enough power, militaristicly speaking, to have autonomy over their own region, and are unfortunately at the mercy of Israel and their close allies (e.g. the USA right now), to control their fate/future.
They had some influence, in the form of Palestinian Americans and allies who could have voted and chosen a less evil/less terrible path ahead, and they flubbed things in the name of making a point. A point that has had little to no impact, and in fact has galvanized a lot of Americans and the world against them because their poor decision during the US election is going to affect everyone in the world. There is nowhere they can run to, or will be safe from the reach of trump’s US imperialism.
Your question is therefore flawed. It assumes the Palestinian people had any option other than Kamala to give them the best possible scenario forward. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of the world, and the facts of the situation. Just because we all agree that having “no choice” sucks and isn’t fair, doesn’t mean refusing to vote and letting the worst option (by far) on the table win is anything more than disappointingly idiotic.
And that’s where we’re at now.
The Palestinian people who are not US citizens do not get a vote at all.
Here you assume that there are no Palestinian Americans, very racist.
Those that are US citizens chose to throw away their vote so they’re in the same camp as those who are not US citizens.
Here you claim that Palestinians that didn’t vote for Kamala are US citizens, but you don’t consider them to be US citizens… more racism.
Palestinian people who were US citizens chose the worse of the two options
Here you claim that Palestinians don’t know what is best for them, which is more racism.
the Palestinian people who were not US citizens had a vote here
More racism by you attempting to claim that there aren’t Palestinian Americans.
They do not have enough power, militaristicly speaking, to have autonomy over their own region, and are unfortunately at the mercy of Israel and their close allies (e.g. the USA right now), to control their fate/future.
Weird how you could have voted for someone else that didn’t support genocide & unconditional support of Israel, which would have given them more autonomy but you chose not to.
Palestinian Americans and allies who could have voted and chosen a less evil/less terrible path ahead, and they flubbed things in the name of making a point
Weird how you claim to always know what is best for them. Just like the white man always knows what is best for African Americans. Very racist of you.
The Palestinian people who are not US citizens do not get a vote at all.
Here you assume that there are no Palestinian Americans, very racist.
This is an illogical misinterpretation. Consider a Venn diagram of Palestinians and US Citizens. The intersection is obviously not the empty set. That initial sentence you quoted is describing the set of Palestinians minus said intersection. You even betray your misinterpretation by quoting “Palestinian people who were US citizens” between accusations of racism.
Much of the rest of your comment similarly falls apart from this illogical misinterpretation.
You are trying to explain why you think it is okay for you to be racist.
I voted for Harris, but I also recognize the great value of people refusing to vote for a Democratic candidate when they move too far to the right. If there is no consequence for drifting right, the candidates will continue to do so.
The whole “preserve democracy” thing sounds good if you don’t think about it too hard, but it doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. The Biden/Harris team proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they weren’t capable of defending democracy. Nominating Garland proved that. The dems pathetic response to Trump’s current lawlessness has proven that.
You can’t “defend democracy” just by saying the words “defend democracy.” You actually have to do it. And they proved that they were either unwilling or incapable of actually defending democracy. That’s why that talking point so fell flat.
Biden’s Gaza policy was tragic, but still, fuck anyone that voted to throw gas onto that fire.
Guy behind the Muslim ban, with the Christian nationalist base, was always going to make things worse.
What gas? Biden tried to do ethnic cleansing as well. Biden tried pushing Egypt to accept Israels ethnic cleansing plan behind closed doors and push the Palestinians out of Rafah. Egypt refused.
Biden helped Israel cleanse the West Bank. Do you believe they have right to return over there?
Trumps difference is he is saying the quiet part out loud. And all it does is piss off Egypt and Saudi.
Thank you for saving Gaza
Thank you for destroying it.
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So predictable. Nothing but “whataboutism” anytime someone points out how bad Trump is and will be. This thread was about Trump, not Biden.
Stop making it about Biden then.
It is currently removed on my end.
Was up for more than 6 hours.
You’re getting downvoted but nothing you said is incorrect.
McCarthyism never ended lol
The Russian Federation is a threat to Europe and the USA.
https://2021-2025.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-propaganda-report/
Did you unironically send us to a US .gov propaganda website to get information about a US enemy state’s disinformation?
Al Jazeera is funded in whole or in part by the Qatari government. Wikipedia
Al Jazeera is heavily influenced by the Qatari government. The same government that has the death sentence for apostasy and homosexuality.
Edit: Also Al Jazeera spun the mass-murder Yahya ‘bring back suicide bombers’ Sinwar as some honorable martyr.
You can’t reason with the pro-genocide Kamala voters
Oh fuck I didn’t realize there was a magical third candidate with a prospect of winning
Yeah, it’s those thoughts and prayers people keep sending in light of disaster. It’s great, you get to claim the moral high ground while burying your head in the sand about the realities of the situation.
I hope you look forward to voting for Ted Cruz, the Democratic candidate for president in 2028. After all, he’ll in theory be a little better than Trump running for his third term, so logically it’s our duty to support Mr. Cruz for president. The only criteria any Democrat is allowed to use is whether the Democratic candidate is a tiny bit better than the Republican.
If you refuse to vote for President Cruz, you will be fully morally responsible for any of Trump’s actions in his third term. After all, there’s no magical third candidate with a prospect of winning.
This is the moral hazard of the “vote blue no matter who” crowd. If the Democratic base is already locked in no matter what, then there’s no need for the party to work to actually reflect Democratic values. The people running the party only care about winning for the sake of winning. They don’t actually believe in anything; they’re just shameless power chasers. And if the Dem base will vote for literally anyone the Dems nominate, then Dems might as well just nominate Ted Cruz, Liz Cheney, or some other Republican. What better way to appeal to suburban Republican voters than by nominating an actual Republican?
The truth is that in order for the Democratic Party to actually mean anything, there have to be some people on the left side of the spectrum willing to walk away if the party moves too far to the right. If there’s no consequence to drifting to the right, the party will just become a duplicate of the Republican Party. Eventually we’ll just end up with an election between the KKK candidate and the skinhead candidate. That would literally be the outcome if every Democratic voter blindly “voted blue no matter who.”
Obviously, there’s the argument of voting to defend democracy. But the sad truth is that centrist dems have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are actually incapable of defending democracy. You can’t run on something that you’ve proven yourself utterly incapable of doing. The party that appointed Merrick Garland could not credibly argue that they were going to vigorously defend democracy. Even now, their pathetic response to Trump’s lawlessness shows that they are incapable of fighting for democracy.
I mean I agree with some of your points I just would have waited until trump was dead of old age before trying to do a protest vote but hey different strokes for different folks I guess. at least we wont have to talk about gaza anymore since it will be fucking gone haha 👍
You keep saying:
at least we wont have to talk about gaza anymore since it will be fucking gone haha 👍
Like Trumps plan is different from Bidens.
But it isn’t. Biden literally tried to get Egypt to accept a giant tent city refuge camp in the Sinai desert. You know, like Gaza originally was in the first place?
So, laughing at the people you incorrectly blame for Trumps election and pointing at this as a consequence is just stupid. This was literally Bidens plan as well.
I don’t blame y’all for shit dawg this is all on the fucking DNC, and I ain’t laughing at you im laughing as cope.
But to act like it would have been exactly the same under Biden is a fucking joke, you know trump is gunna dial the spite and cruelty to 11.
Well now you have to take them in.
These chickens will come home to roost, you know.
Bawk bawk.
HEY, EVERYBODY! LET’S KEEP ARGUING ABOUT THE ELECTION THAT ENDED LAST YEAR! THAT WILL REALLY HELP THE PALESTINIANS!
Yea, this stinkin’ debate is just sterile, look ahead y’all, there is a 50m tidal wave coming at everyone while you bicker!
Based on the downvotes, people would much rather bicker and I’m terrible for suggesting people take action instead.
where are all the conservative instances so we can go DUNK and SLAM on them?
The conservative instance is called Reddit and we’re no longer federated with them.
People seem to be happy to do that to each other on Lemmy every time the topic of Palestine comes up.
This morning, I said to someone, “if I challenged you to send one e-mail to a celebrity or politician or business leader asking them to use their ability to get the ear of the media to speak on behalf of Palestinians, would you do it?”
I won’t keep you in suspense. They never responded. Because pointing fingers and accusing others of being in favor of genocide is much easier. And fun!
Absolutely. Anyone posting about Biden, Harris, or Democrats committing genocide etc. Especially still now. Is either just virtue signaling or trying to sew discord, and not actually interested in helping anyone but themselves.
It was a disingenuous claim from the start. It really downplays what genocide is. I say this as someone who’s family has been subjected to various forms of genocide by the US government as recently as my grandparents.
The US government as a whole has been enabling genocide in Palestine for at least a half century. And that’s shameful enough without false accusations. Well, they might become true now. But even then it’s not about any one person. Even Trump. He couldn’t do much without the craven, spineless and bigoted Republican party. And even they would struggle with out all the self-interested Democrats on the dole as well. The system is the problem. Swapping out any individual won’t even make a dent. And anyone who implies or acted like it would should have been ridiculed from the start.
you know what Flying Squid - I’m gonna email my senator right now. 🐙
Thank you! I wish more people did such things!
Friendly reminder: The crescendo of the first six months of project 2025 is using civil unrest to deploy the US Military as a domestic police force. The accompanying suspension of habeus corpus is absolutely needed for them to turn up the heat even more.
They’re laying the groundwork for defanging the judicial branch as we speak - it’s their last obstacle.
From https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-i/clauses/763 (emphasis mine):
"The Suspension Clause protects liberty by protecting the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus. It provides that the federal government may not suspend this privilege except in extraordinary circumstances: when a rebellion or invasion occurs and the public safety requires it. "
He is doing a Putin
Dudes gonna single handedly start WW3
his handler in moscow deserves some credit
Trump is the handler in this case. Handling Putin’s balls.
It’s called an oligargle
Trump suggested creating permanent refugee communities funded by the U.S., calling Gaza a “real estate development for the future.”
I will make the best Economy evah!
Lol no, om going to use the US funds to pay for millions of refugees that I artificially created so that I can have my very own Riviera for free
The fiscally conservative party at its finest, everyone
