A lot of it also has to do with racism, and these days, people don’t even know why zoning ordinances are the way they are. They can’t defend them. They just assume that it’s what people want and there must be some good reason for the zoning being the way it is (spoiler alert: nope, actually). This is one of the ripest, and probably lowest-hanging fruits in terms of achieving QOL improvements in North America.

I didn’t know heat until I went to Kuwait in summer

Sounds like the Philippines. Hell, sounds like just about every other sane place on the planet.

Turf is barely previous

StormTech under the parking lot is all the rage now.

So, you guys are tearing out parking lots and removing parking minimums, right?

Even if you have soil, in a whole lot of cities/municipalities/counties… there are zoning restrictions on growing certain amounts and kinds of plants/vegetables.

And HOAs. They all have their own restrictions as well.

Wanna collect rainwater?

Regulations on that too.

Wanna start a compost bin?

Well your neighbor can complain it smells bad in the summer. Might attract dangerous critters.

Hell, probably just laying down a sufficient amount of top soil might be enough to get a visit from an HOA rep or a county zoning wonk.

edit: looks like I’m wrong.

Do people in this thread really think the developer took the topsoil and sold it to someone else?

Bitch, please. Topsoil isn’t valuable enough to strip and truck somewhere. The tiny layer we humans can grow food in is just that thin in a large part of North America.

Deal with it.

Compost helps, storage is the issue. I’m ok with it open but not okay with the timber rattlers, cotton mouths and copperheads different scavengers would attract.

Grass (the trimmed always green lawn type) is more demanding than many other crops. If the grass is growing there, then the topsoil is good enough for some other things too. Also the topsoil is something you can develop, especially on such small scale as personal garden. Make compost, grow less demanding plants first nad your soil will get better. You can grow things on sand mixed with a bit of compost.

Exactly. When I resodded our front lawn I kept finding building materials. I guess it’s common for construction workers to bury the trash when building a house rather than dispose of it correctly.

Land of freedom:

Can I grow potato in my own garden?

-No.

America spent so long cutting off its own nose to spite its face that it’s no wonder it believes today that its shit doesn’t stink.

For fucks sake why can’t there be a place that’s basically identical to america EXCEPT without the racism, homophobia, transphobia, and fascism. What the fuck is humanity doing, god damn.

Of course, racism is the source of every problem.

Let’s forget the power that oil conglomerates and the automotive industry have on the government.

I grew in a town with lots of parks. Yes the smallest and shitest used to be black only. Basically just look for park in lower area. And we started building suburbs with redlines on day one the raciam didn’t need to wait for redlines to go away. The school district thing. That’s a bit more region based. Up North they mosrohad mono ethnic neighborhoods so they was less need to make seperate racial schools. The south although they had redlines and other housings policy creating black and white neighborhoods they also just went fully into making blackand white only schools.

drive to heavily populated areas

This. This right here is a major problem with the suburbs. All the benefits for the people who have the privilege to live in one are great, with the negatives of driving externalized onto other people.

I think that might be the point in that suburbs can be this way, but it’s mostly luck that you happen to have the 10 minute accessibility to the public transit piece, most seem to be a 10 minute vehicle ride away from facilities which is a huge downgrade

Suburbs are not feasible, cost wise, from a municipal standpoint. They’ve been heavily subsidized by the denser parts of the municipality, and surprisingly by the rural parts too.

The cost of maintaining infrastructure in a fit state of repair (water main, sanitary sewer and treatment plants, roads, bridges, storm sewer, curbs, sidewalk, street lighting) for these semi-spread out houses is the same as maintaining it in denser areas without the benefits of the higher tax income.

Additionally, the spread out housing, at least here, has overtaken lower lying wetlands, filled in creeks, and increased water flow down the water courses that do remain, causing erosion, sedimentation, and killing off the aquatic wildlife. Ontario has just started to require Low-Impact Development, standards that require constructing artificial wetlands, soak away pits, raingardens, green roofs, or similar measures to reduce water flow off site and encourage aquifer refilling. These all cost extra money above and beyond what the cost of repair has been up to now.

I work as a consultant designing infrastructure repair and rehabilitation for municipalities, and have seen the cost of these projects. For most of them, it’s the equivalent of their property tax for ~40yrs, and typically has a lifespan of 50-75yrs on the high end.

Suburbs are being subsidized through grants provided by our Federal or Provincial government, which is funded through other taxes.

For what it is worth, those suburbs you are describing are decaying in America. Those bars and shops just a few minutes down the road closed a couple generations ago. Many are empty lots or were razed for additional road lanes or gas stations. (In my city: another shooting range for police.) There aren’t even sidewalks outside the neighborhood where I live, and this is in an area developed in the 1980s ‘shining house on a hill’ era of America.

Most people live in the suburbs this guy is questioning, because it’s a nice balance of cost, serenity, and convenience.

The cost is blown out of the water, but for serenity and convenience goes: the conveniences are decaying and so the serenity is about all you can hope to get for the cost. More than anything though the spiraling cost destroys that balance. Most renting folks I know can’t afford the shops or restaurants anyway because of housing costs. American suburbs are increasingly isolated.

It’s not a “nice balance” it is literally the opposite of that.

most people don’t actually want to live in commie row houses with a bar downstairs.

of course! these types of building were an imperfect answer to a problem of how to make enough living space for many people fast enough and cheaply enough. the apartment blocks went a long way from prefabricated panel blocks in a concrete jungle to the point i absolutely loved living in my modern block apartment in the city center in a quite spot between two parks, 10min walk from a train station and a shopping center, with a terrace, garden, playground and childcare across the street and within 15min from any shop, restaurant, pub, doctor or anything else i ever needed.

You can’t have shops in a residential street because most people don’t actually want that.

what? i mean, i can believe you can be conditioned to not wanting it. just like many americans think unions are bad or any other crazy shit like that… but generally no. anyone who ever lived in a place where they can run down the street to buy milk when they run out or just walk sane distance to a pub will disagree with you.

To me as a European who lives in a medium-sized city the US-style suburb model sounds very claustrophobic. The suburbs aren’t walkable, you can’t cycle anywhere either. The only way to get around is by car. Commercial areas are the same, shops are separated by streets and large parking lots, if you want to visit another shop you have to go by car.

It’s like each house or store is a little island and you can only island-hop using your car. Once you get out of your car, you’re stuck on yet another island. It’s like one of those older computer games from when they didn’t have the tech to stream large open worlds yet, just a bunch of small areas and a loading screen (car) in between.

I can totally understand not wanting a bar or tavern nearby. In Brazil, those always have excessive loud music and if you live nearby, you won’t sleep. Drunkards are the least of the problems, surprisingly.

I lived in a commie block for 10 years and I’d shoot myself before I have to return in one.

People who claim it’s the future have never enjoyed the displeasure of living in one. They can fuck right off.

I would really enjoy a house i could afford.

So here’s the thing:

The housing that people want is the housing they can afford. Sure, I’d love to live in a 20,000 sqft mansion up in the Pacific Northwest rainforest with a built in pool and free-range dino nuggies dispensers, but I can’t afford that, so I live in what I can afford. Problem is, our zoning doesn’t permit really anything except unaffordable, bland tracts of McMansions that force you to drive to everything. If you can’t afford that, then, oh well, get bulldozered, idiot.

I want to make living in my city affordable; if all my kids can afford is a $400 studio with no car, then that should be an option.

I believe housing choice is a good thing. The problem is that suburbia almost always takes away housing choice for everyone else.

1. Suburbia is not cost viable.

Notice how suburbs are almost always built around cities and almost never on their own. There is a reason for this; they are heavily subsidized by the city and its infrastructure - eventually killing off the city due to extreme maintenance costs and uncooperative tax base (NIMBYs). This is a parasitic relationship, fullstop.

2. Suburbia is not recyclable.

It is extremely difficult to reuse suburban infrastructure for non-suburban purposes. This effectively eliminates scarce land until a patron spends 10x removing what it costs to install (not happening). This is why suburbs are often just abandoned instead of repurposed (see any rust-belt suburb).

3. Space should not come at the cost of the future.

To navigate suburbia (only viable by car) is to put massive strain on the human body and environment. We were built to walk. If you do not, you will become fat and die (see America). Cars pollute the air to no end, and “third places” can never truly be established - killing communities.

Wanting space is fine, but people should find a way to do it sustainably without harming themselves and everyone around them.

I drive but i wasn’t going to stay working in Texas long enough to justify the costs of buying my own car and transferring my license there, but same situation.

I was in Houston which has some buses and decided to use them. To do a 10-15 ish km ride, it took over 2 hours because there was just one bus that way and it stopped in every street corner. An uber took the same route in about 20 minutes.

I really disliked the way Texas looked, too much sprawl, cheap falling apart houses and whole blocks of abandoned houses and businesses. Definitely not enough trees. Also how it’s organized, but the people were fairly nice. Like 60% of the time.

There’s a lot of racism but i already was expecting that. I thought the racism would be whites vs everyone else, but honestly I’ve witnessed and experienced racism there from every race, towards everyone else. People also treat you better when they think you’re their own race, so being Mediterranean i had random acts of kindness from Arabs, Latinos and white people who thought i was from their respective race. I also met some Brazilian people who hated Europeans for some reason and were not shy to show it.