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- cross-posted to:
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TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
THE WORLD IS BETTER WITH MY TRANS FRIENDS IT
AND THE WORLD IS DIMMER WITHOUT THEM
THE ONLY PEOPLE THE WORLD DOESN’T NEED ARE FASCISTS AND THEIR ENABLERS
AND THIS IS A THREAT TO ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE
And how exactly are you going to carry out that threat?
Education and if they refuse to learn, anything else to ensure the safety of the others. Needs of the many outweigh the feelings of the few.
That’s the lamest way to carry out a threat I’ve ever heard.
Do what I say!
Or else what?
Or else…I’ll send you a…wikipedia link!
Dun dun duuuuun!
Closeted trans person here. The fact that so many of you have dared to live as yourselves, and to keep fighting in the face of increasing odds, is the reason I’m still here.
Never underestimate just how much it means for the world that you exist, as you are.
And we’ll still be here when you’re ready to come out. The world can be scary, but you’ve got friends and a whole ancestry of powerful women and men to build on.
deleted by creator
To all my trans family, we will fight for you.
No trans person has ever done anything bad to anyone I care about.
All Republicans have.
True
I’m all about positivity, but let’s be real: the World is not better or worse because of someone’s sexuality or gender identity, but is a lot worse for everyone because of the existence of bigoted people that have nothing better to do than meddle in other people’s lives.
Bro, i gave up, this is getting worst than Reddit in some matters. And yep, or you say you love them or they will downvote you to Mordor, there is no Middle ground on Middle ground
You do know that downvoting doesn’t hide posts on Lemmy like it does on Reddit, right?
In a bigoted world, even the existence of the oppressed is a strike against bigotry.
Survive, and the world is better for it.
I like that. It makes the fight to keep breathing another day something not strictly out of selfishness. Because you’re right, if everyone stopped fighting those fights we’d lose a lot of people, not just trans ppl, and yeah, the world would be solely populated by hard uncaring Viltrumites.
Kindness must persevere.
So you acknowledge that bigots make things worse for everyone, but you blame the people they’re bigoted against for it? What are you trying to say here?
Where did I blame the oppressed people for the existence of bigotry?
All I’m saying is, for all the qualities a person can have that makes the World better for everyone else, being a specific gender is one of the most irrelevant.
Gender is a personal subject that only matters for you and the people you care about and care about you.
Change “trans kids” for “cis kids” in the banner and you’ll understand what I’m talking about. The picture message is empty of meaning.
To be clear, I have nothing against someone’s gender identity and I could have commented nothing at all. But this is a public forum, and I have an opinion on it, so there we are.
removed by mod
I love the response you’re getting. A wholesome community until you have a different opinion. This is how you know Lemmy is simply comprised of the top crust layer of Reddit. The worst it had to offer.
Here’s an idea for you: leave.
No. But the offer is appreciated all the same. I know you would love it more if you only engaged with people who think exactly like you, and only have the opinions and conclusions you do. It feels good to constantly have your ideology and agenda confirmed. Makes you feel superior.
When that opinion is deeply harmful, is directly contrary to all scientific evidence, results in actual groomers (not trans people) being able to take advantage of ignorance, and is generally used by bigots as a wedge to repress sexual education well beyond teen years–yeah this is the response you get
Basically what you’re saying is, conversation and opposing virepoints is harmful. Which is a fascist view.
I’m all for people making their own choices. But teaching children about sexuality is wrong, let alone assuming a child has the mind to transition their gender. This is sick in the head.
OP’s opinion about teaching young children, too young to grasp the concept of sexuality being wrong is simply their opinion. Many children grow out of gender identity disorder once they reach a certain age (not all, but many).
Your “science” is hotly contested around the world. Simply because you’ve chosen to accept a particular conclusion doesn’t mean everyone has to.
I’m not addressing the grooming nonsense or “used by biogts” comment as they are simply left wing talking points.
I do not suspect I’ll find meaningful dialog here as too many of you are hateful and close minded leading to an inability to have conversation that doesn’t include insults and name calling. Cheers.
It’s not fascist to oppose intolerance. You are attacking people’s core identities; their right to exist. It’s not an attack on you when people defend themselves from you. We’re not discussing our favorite movies here. Some other examples of harmful lies:
“People with dark skin are dumb”
“Women are too emotional to make their own decisions”
“Poor people don’t deserve clean air, water and food”
“Being queer is a mental disorder”
“Many children grow out of gender identity disorder once they reach a certain age” (seriously, this is totally made up. Less than 5% of people do this and many of those only detransition because of the hate they encounter)
Climate change is hotly contested too. That doesn’t mean the people contesting it have any valid points. People who are actually invested in evidence-based research, not those trying to cobble together post-hoc justification for their fear, have a general consensus that giving children a basic understanding of what is and isn’t sexually appropriate makes them much safer. And if a child asks whether it’s okay to like either gender, it’s easy to simply answer “yes.”
A wholesome community until you have a different opinion.
“Please tolerate my intolerance! You have to support me wanting people removed from the public! I’m normal!! You need to treat me equal while I don’t treat people equal, or you’re being hypocritical!!!”
“if you oppose my views, you’re a bigot, and I don’t debate bigots, hence I won’t debate you. I win”
See, I can put words in quotation marks too. Look how cool we look.
Opposing the views that trans people exist and that their rights matter does, indeed, make you a bigot.
Of course they exist. You can literally see them. And they have the same rights as I do, assuming they are a legal citizen of the USA.
And they have the same rights as I do, assuming they are a legal citizen of the USA.
No. No they don’t. Trump has ensured that.
This is from 19 days ago and he has done a lot more since.
In just one example- A cisgender person will have no trouble getting things like testosterone or estrogen if their doctor says they need it. Trans people are losing that right.
I doubt there is a federal, state, or local law, or in the constitution that states you have a right to getting testosterone or estrogen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
This paradox raises complex issues about the limits of freedom, especially concerning free speech and the protection of liberal democratic values. It has implications for contemporary debates on managing hate speech, political extremism, and social policies aimed at fostering inclusivity without compromising the integrity of democratic tolerance.
Above room temperature IQ shit, please use the brain I assume you’re equipped with, but my faith in that is dwindling.
Oh, wow, a concept someone conceived.
I don’t see an opposing view as intolerance, thus your link is moot.
You know Garak is gay, right?
I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with this information.
Show solidarity by not considering “think of the children” transphobia as simply a “different opinion.” It’s not far from considering homosexuals “sick in the head.”
No one was talking about gay people. This is the problem when you try to lump a bunch of alphabet letters into the same group. They’re not a monolith.
No, they’re not, but the people who want to oppress them and wipe them from existence don’t care about that. Don’t help them.
I’m not attempting to help or not help anyone. That’s not my job. But I won’t stifle my words or yours because someone, somewhere thinks it might be “harming” someone.
Please fuck off. I really want to believe that you are just ignorant and mean well, but still. It’s hard being polite.
I am gay, and I have known it even before I knew what the word “gay” meant. Being gay doesn’t just mean “ooo I wanna fuck that manly ass so much, ooo I wanna suck dick”. Does being straight mean “pussy pussy I want pussy”? No. It can mean having romantic feelings for your male best friend, really liking to look at a male celeb for a very long time cuz they just “look pretty” and so on.
I was surrounded by homophobes who constantly denounced being homosexuality. I had to spend my entire childhood feeling that there was something terribly wrong with me. This was until I actually discovered the LGBTQ community. I understood that I was not the only “freak” like this in the world. I understood that I could live a nice and beautiful life as a gay dude.
If I was exposed to the concept of homosexuality in childhood (the fact that something like this even exists, and that you’re not a freak for being gay in case you think you are), then my childhood would’ve been a lot better.
The same goes with gender identity. I’m cis, so I won’t be able to give a very good description of what it’s like being trans, but from what I’ve understood from my trans friends, it’s pretty similar.
Why should kids have to suffer for not being cis n straight? Conservatives make it seem as if kids are being taught how to fellatio Jeffery Epstein or something. Kids do need to know about concepts like these (them being sexuality, gender identity, etc.) so that they can protect themselves from going down the spiral of self hatred.
I hate how people conflate sexuality and sex. You can be gay and die a virgin and I have no idea why some people don’t understand that. It’s about who attracts you, not what you do.
Listen downvote me all you want. I’m all for people living how they want to. But school and childhood years are not fit to teach people about sexuality, especially before teenage years. If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want them to be subject to these topics until they’re at least 13-14 and that’s a teenager at that point. Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway and saying that a child can be transgender is such a wild concept to me. It’s the same as claiming a child is totally straight or gay. They’re children, what the fuck do they know.
And yet some kids do know they’re totally straight, or gay, or transgender, before they even turn 12, or 11, etc.
They might not have the vocabulary to express it, and others might not know how it works or how they feel, so that’s just all the more reason to teach them.
Imagine if we treated any other subject like this: “oh the children have no idea how it works, lets not subject them to it”. It doesn’t make sense, of course they don’t understand if they’ve never heard of it.
I knew I was into girls when I was five. I didn’t know what heterosexuality (or any other sexuality) was, but I knew girls made me feel a way that boys didn’t. And when I did learn that there were boys who felt that way about boys like I did about girls, it was about my much older brother’s college roommate and eventual best friend, who is gay. I think maybe I was seven.
Somehow it didn’t destroy me.
The evidence says you’re wrong. Age appropriate sex education has huge proven benefits. Although sex education has basically nothing to do with gender identity, despite your conflation of the two.
And you are absolutely not for letting people live how they want with this position. You are for enabling the government to violently intrude on and control people’s lives about some of the most crucial and intimate aspects of their lives.
Shame on you.
And that is how you end up with pregnant teenagers.
I’m all for people living how they want to. But school and childhood years are not fit to teach people about sexuality, especially before teenage years.
That is an unbelievably stupid proposal. By age 13 boys, and especially girls (because they start sooner) are well into puberty. They’ve already had sexual questions and feelings for years by that point. In the absence of any teaching on what is happening to their bodies and what the consequences are of engaging in intercourse too early, many of them will make minor to catastrophic choices simply because we wouldn’t have given them normal human knowledge.
If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want them to be subject to these topics until they’re at least 13-14 and that’s a teenager at that point.
How do you not remember what your own childhood was like? On your 13th birthday did you, for the first time, look at your genitalia and wonder what it was for or “where babies came from”? No, of course not. You asked some of those questions likely when you were 6 or 7 years old. If nothing else you are leaving your child vulnerable to sexual abuse because you haven’t told them what healthy boundaries are or at worst, sexual abusers themselves again because you haven’t told them what healthy boundaries are to be respected.
Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway and saying that a child can be transgender is such a wild concept to me. It’s the same as claiming a child is totally straight or gay. They’re children, what the fuck do they know.
Seriously? Do simply you dismiss any idea or notion a child has about themselves in any capacity until they magically turn 13? If they tell you their favorite color is blue, do you tell them they can’t possibly know their own mind?
Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway
So all the kids who make fun of the “fairy boy” or “butch girl” don’t have pre-existing knowledge of gender and sexuality expectations?
Then why aren’t bullies targeting girls for dressing up in boas and singing pop? Why aren’t boys made fun of for cutting their hair short and liking sports? Put a boy in the first scenario and a girl in the second, and other kids will point them out as being “different.”
If kids have “no idea how sexuality or genders work” then what, exactly, makes this type of discrimination possible?
On an unrelated note, your understanding of children in general is absolutely baffling. It’s clear you aren’t around kids much, don’t remember your own childhood, and know diddly squat about child development. Kids are much smarter than you
think.
But they’re not transitioning at that age. It’s puberty blockers used to delay permanent changes to their body. Puberty blockers have been used for decades and there’s plenty of research and evidence around to show that there’s no harm in delaying puberty.
On the contrary, there is lots of evidence to show that forcing children who identify as trans to go through puberty is traumatic and can lead to suicide. Forcing trans children to go through that is, in my opinion, sick in the head.
Wouldn’t you want to do what’s best for your child no matter who they are? Children are people too and it’s worth listening to what they say, especially if they’re voicing distress.
Passing knowledge is never wrong, in my opinion, and it’s never wrong to defer to someone more knowledgeable if you don’t know what the answer is.
I would highly suggest that you speak to your local trans community to understand what ‘teaching children about sexuality’ means to them and how it affected them, to get a better understanding.
“If someone touches you where your bathing suit covers, that is bad and you need to tell people about it” is teaching children about sexuality.
So that’s what you think is wrong.
Teaching kids about sex and sexuality is the opposite of wrong. Teaching kids their body parts, and why and how they are private makes it harder for them to be exploited, assaulted and raped. Teaching them about sexuality, at an age appropriate time lets them know that puberty is fucking weird, and hard, and not everything fits into 2 nice little neat boxes. It teaches them, that yes they ARE normal and not freaks.
Sexuality and gender expression are unrelated.
You have fundamental misunderstandings that you should educate yourself about before commenting again.
I won’t reply further to you, so please dont bother.
Those are unrelated, fuckwit
I agree. Children are very impressionable and there are bad actors who will try to convince them that it’s better to be trans.
If you can accept the reality of gender dysphoria, then it is reasonable to address how that condition is best treated. The consequences of not treating can be lethal via suicide so this is not an idle question. If transitioning makes the difference between life or death (or chronic substantial depression) then arguably encouraging this affected people to “be trans” is the right thing to do. Sorry if it hurts your feeling but that’s the reality of it.
What about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
Sorry if it hurts your feeling but that’s the reality of it.
My feelings are fine, but I think you’re ignoring the part of reality that goes against your agenda.
Please show your home work.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
While, since you looooove semantics so much, I’m sure it happens that some people coming suicide after transitioning it is, to my understanding FAR less than the baseline, also you need to show that suicide is the result of transitioning, and not anti trans people bullying and harassing them, for the crime of being who they are.
So… what about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
Are you trying to argue they don’t matter because they’re a minority?
Re read what I wrote please. Also don’t straw man, show your homework. C’mon do better.
what about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
You’re never going to answer this because you know it defeats your argument.
I’ll just take this as your surrender and we can move on with our lives.
You may have the last word, I can tell you’re desperate for it.
/s right? Because that doesn’t happen. But I mean they are getting all these bad actors telling them it’s better NOT to be trans. That only affects the trans kids. Telling a strait kid that it’s better to be trans will be met with scoffs. Telling a trans kid that being trans is bad somehow will fuck them up.
No, it definitely happens.
I see it all the time and they’re not even ashamed of it.
Where are you that you see trans people try to convince children it is better to be trans “all the time?”
Sorry flying squid, I can tell you’re on a tirade and are going to keep replying to all of my posts if I keep responding to you.
I’m going to stop this now and put you on ignore. I hope you can realize for yourself why you’re incorrect, but it’s not my problem to educate you about the real world.
Goodbye, and good luck.
What a bizarre lie.
I may joke to male friends that they should be femboys but that is the extent of what I’ve seen. Whenever anyone says that they actually are questioning their gender I give them as much space as they need to figure it out themselves but am always open to questions. The trans people I know are the same and most trans people on the internet seem to be too. I wouldn’t be too surprised if there are some people who are not like us and do try to force others. I think cis people trying to force trans people to be cis are more common.
I may joke to male friends that they should be femboys but that is the extent of what I’ve seen.
Yeah, that’s how it starts. It’s how neo-nazis wriggle their way into places they shouldn’t be.
“It’s just a joke, bro.” Until it isn’t.
Are you conflating “it’s ok to be trans” with “being trans is better?” Becuase those are not the same thing. Is what you’re saying anecdotal or do you have like a real source?
E: ah I see your comment history, I understand now. Please, what is the “trans agenda” in your own words. Btw, contrary to what you’ve said you’ve always been allowed not to like trans, people, or even hate the idea of people being trans, just like people can call you out on it, what you can’t do is take away their rights, that’s when there is an issue. P.s. I hope you’re against circumcisions.
No, I’m not conflating them.
Let me repeat exactly what I wrote: “there are bad actors who will try to convince them that it’s better to be trans.” I shouldn’t have to spell this out for you, but this means that some people will try to convince others that it’s better to be trans.
Are you trying to argue that those people don’t exist? If so, please say it.
Granted, you did say that, sure there may be 1 or two people who say that and you said you see it all the time, so surely its widespread. I see you aren’t aware of hyperbole. Now that that’s done with. Will you continue to conveniently ignore my questions?
I never used the word “widespread” or mentioned scale at all. I’m glad we can at least agree that it does happen.
You can figure out the answers to your questions on your own.
I agree, there are tons of bad actors out there. I can’t believe how much time and money is invested into brainwashing children into thinking that men and women marrying is normal. I still don’t understand straight relationships, which one is the woman and which one is the other woman?
And you guys wonder why people don’t take you seriously.
Fuck off
I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know. It’s the same reasoning why we don’t give kids right to vote
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Edit 2: I don’t have time to respond to actual answers, I try later. But just a reminder: The only thing I said is, that I support trans people, just in case of kids I’m not sure. That is all. And I got -28 at the moment and people calling me moron
I understand it being a sticky issue for people because there’s so much of society and choice we put into the realm of adults. But here’s the thing. Psychology has been obsessed with trans people since the origin of the field. We have a ton of data on what happens when trans people recognized at an early age grow up and what that looks like when there’s no intervention whatsoever. The reality of it is that there’s certain things that there is no medical fix or take backs for once you experience your first puberty.
We know very well that gender identity observed in trans kids is stable. We have a rubric of diagnosis stable enough to have gone up against several National medical ethics boards and survived the scrutiny nessisary to opt for attempting risks.
The first generation of kids to grow up utilizing this process are now adults (the oldest cohort are now in their 30’s) and the results have been promising with an almost absurdly low rate of regret reported across the population…
But now you have to recognize why that rate of regret is so low. You need the signoff of a team of professionals who put the bar very high to allow candidates to attempt these risks and any of them can pull support if something doesn’t go to plan. Furthermore a child alone does not make these decisions the informed consent has to be demonstrated by the child and their parents. So when people say “kids shouldn’t make these decisions” you’re missing that they aren’t making these decisions. A kid and a panel of adults who are experts in their field, social workers and dedicated parents who have watched the difference in their child’s behaviour go from very obviously not thriving in a multitude of ways to massive improvements through social transition make these decisions.
People act like it’s as simple as a kid showing up and asking for a lollipop. It isn’t. We have literal generations of data about what happens if we do nothing. The outcomes are miserable. We can afford to try something different than known miserable outcomes.
since nobody has given an explanation yet I’ll try to, however I am horrible with getting my words out and someone else can give a way better explanation than me.
Most trans people will either have signs or know that they are trans before they are 18. I myself knew that something was off about me as early as 3rd grade, I saw a tomboy and told my parents I wanted to be a ‘tomgirl’.
By the time puberty hits is when irreversible changes happen to the body. This is also when most trans people really get the “oh shit this ain’t right” moment.
Imagine being trapped in a body that is doing its very best to rip your soul apart from you, then learning that there are medications that can stop it, but then learning that people who aren’t even experiencing what you are have made the choice for you to not let you access them.
Now imagine that, for 5+ years.It’s torture.
Not 5+ years. Experience it beginning for 5+ years, then for the rest of your life because puberty has no undo button on many changes. I will never understand assholes who want to take away puberty blockers from kids who need them to have more time to decide on the life they want to live. That is no one’s god damn business but their own, under 18 or not.
I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
I agree, but that’s totally unrelated to the topic of trans rights. Whataboutism doesn’t make the issue go away.
Is this supposed to be a counter argument? I also disagree with mutilating the genitals of infants.
No, I’m just saying I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
There’s a much greater push for kids taking hormones versus protecting infants from having their genitalia mutiliated.
I would like to see more backlash against the former because I view it as a more important issue. That’s all.
Okay, and?
I would like to see more backlash against workplace culture that glorifies overwork and burnout.
I would like to see more backlash against tipping culture.
I would like to see more backlash in wasteful government spending.
You’re coming into a conversation about a specific topic and randomly derailing it to something with no relation because you think the topic at hand isn’t important enough? Either stay on topic, or start a new conversation elsewhere.
I won’t be responding to this again, it’s already completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Cheers.
And it’s fine if you want those things. Feel free to say what you want and I’ll do the same.
It’s clear though you’re upset that I dared suggest a different cause is more important to me than what’s important to you.
What do you think of the kids that undergo hormone treatment and come to regret it later?
not that big of an issue, conservatives like to play up the numbers WAAYYYY more than it actually is. Nobody is pressured into being trans, infact it’s the opposite.
Normal cosmetic surgery has a regret rate of 30% while trans surgeries have a 5% regret rate.
not that big of an issue
Tell this to the people that regret transitioning, bigot.
Nobody is pressured into being trans
Really? Nobody anywhere has ever been convinced that they’re trans when they really aren’t?
Most people who transition are happy with the choice, less so about people who question are you really trans?
You sure love semantics. Sounds very ben shapiro of you.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
Your newsweek article doesn’t matter.
You keep trying to ignore the people who kill themselves over regretting their transition because they don’t support your agenda.
Glad we could have this discussion.
It doesn’t matter because most people are happy. I’m most certainly not ignoring them. It’s an issue, I asked for data to back up your assertions. You could not provide it. I have no agenda.
Practically nonexistant, it is not possible for children under 16 to access HRT, if anything they are prescribed puberty blockers (so that you know… they can avoid suffering from the changes in their body and not be permanently affected).
The general figure of regret for transgender affirming care is 1%, and 82.5% of these people do not detransition because they are no longer trans, but because of external factors. Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33794108/
By age 17, 0.1% of trans children get HRT. Source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2828427
Now let’s calculate some numbers: 1% of these 0.1% will regret it, that’s 0.001%. And 17.5% of these might not be transgender, so that’s 0.000175%
According to that second study, there’s about 300000 trans children, so 0.000175% of that is 0.525 people.
So… less than 1 child in the whole United States would maybe regrets it because they’re not trans. In other words, you can stop fear mongering.
https://old.reddit.com/r/detrans/
So… less than 1 child in the whole United States would maybe regrets it because they’re not trans.
Lol, the complete delusion among you people really is a sight to behold.
They brought sources, you brought anecdotes from reddit. Remind us who’s deluded again?
They posted a newsweek article and I shared what amounts to at least thousands of people who regret transitioning.
You’re upset because regretting transitioning doesn’t align with what you like. You literally want to ignore people who regret transitioning like the right wants to ignore trans people.
Congrats, you’re a bigot.
Last I checked PubMed was a far better source than Newsweek or Reddit. (The comment isn’t even edited so I’m assuming you just skipped the part with the sources)
You posted a link to a Reddit community which won’t even load for me. I assume what you claim “amounts to at least thousands of people who regret transitioning” is the amount of people subscribed to that Reddit community. If I understood correctly that would indeed not amount to “at least thousands of people who regret transitioning”. Instead it would show the number of Reddit accounts subscribed to the community. Some of which are likely individuals who regret having transitioned, many others are people interested in hearing about it and/or excited to make fun of what is posted and there could also be bots artificially inflate the number.
Posting a community name/link does not equate to a number of people in the group that the community is aimed at and it most certainly is not indicative of the people that actually exist in the group.
This may be news to you, but people on Reddit lie. Constantly.
Just about any medical procedure will sometimes produce regrets in some portion of the population of people who undergo it, for instance vaccinations, amniocentesis, etc. It’s not reasonable to suggest that because this is true that no one should have access to the treatments.
Right. Like getting fake breasts or cheek implants.
The difference between those and vaccinations is that they’re superficial and aren’t necessary to prolong our lives. They’re optional, just like hormone treatment. They’re also procedures we don’t encourage or allow children to get on their own without a medical need, and rightfully so.
While some people will “regret” getting a kidney transplant, the alternative would’ve been death. I’m not going to argue whether or not they made the right choice, but the facts are there.
While some people will regret hormone treatment, the alternative is living with their normal healthy body like everyone else. They never “needed” the procedure in the first place.
What contact in your personal or professional life have you had with trans folk? Are you speaking with experience of appreciating their pain or are you just speaking based on what you’ve heard?
Why does any of that matter?
How can I explain color to a blind man? You’re either attuned to the suffering around you or you’re contributing to it. Apparently you can’t see that. You must be blind.
I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Because you’re a moron who refuses to learn better.
Thank you. Really thank you, this is beautiful. I didn’t even have time to go through responses of people actually explaining to me what’s the matter instead of downvoting. Bit you come in and call me a moron, fantastic, this helps everyone
deleted by creator
And you concluded all that from the few sentences I have written here?
I can’t speak for them, but I concluded it from one single sentence.
Have you ever felt gender dysphoria?
No, I don’t have gender dysphoria.
Also not I, nor you can build an airplane, yet we can have a discussion about plane building
They’re not saying you can’t talk about it, they’re saying you don’t understand that it’s inherent, so kids absolutely know they’re trans once they understand the concept. Just like they know they’re gay.
I disagree
gripping analytical retort from queer and youth ally powerhouse efreetsk here, more at 8
Because…?
thanks for outing yourself
Don’t worry, I support trans kids not being allowed to vote before the age of 18.
You don’t know if the world is better with trans kids in it? Are you saying you think the world would be better if trans kids were all killed? Or that they’re not worth fighting for?
I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Because trans kids exist whether you approve of them or not.
Yes, but there’s also a medical industrial complex that pushes confused teenagers towards transitioning to make money.
Cool. One person talks about a trans agenda in this thread, another person is making up silly medical conspiracies to dehumanize trans people as if they had no agency.
Teenagers don’t even go to doctors by themselves. They have to be accompanied by a parent.
I find it interesting that an industry where lemmy users have sympathy for killing CEOs is blindly trusted with children.
There is a vast, vast gulf between blindly trusting the medical industry and accepting your personal conspiracy theory that doesn’t even make sense.
So maybe start giving out free healthcare instead? Works fine in Germany.
[citation needed]
Which Fox News commentator is your source one that?
I am fine with a stance like “I don’t know”…as long as you’re not pushing any kind of agenda as a result.
A long time ago, I was uninformed about trans people. I was curious and asked questions…but I didn’t push them into any kind of restrictions.
I’d argue I’m still relatively uninformed. But I know that there’s been no evidence of any societal benefit from pushing further restrictions on them, and there’s plenty of evidence of harm by referring to the various gender studies. That’s all I need. Even if I wasn’t actively pushing to support trans youths, and even if I still have a part of me that sees them as “weird”, I sure as hell see no point in standing in the way of their preferred forms of progress.
“The world is better with you in it and you’re worth fighting for!”
You: It isn’t and you’re not.
Also you: Why is this downvoted??
How the hell did you come to THIS conclusion? You’re now literally putting words in my mouth
I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know.
How else is this response to that message supposed to be taken?
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
You’re either with them, or against them.
If you don’t give 110% support to the trans agenda, then they will immediately assume you’re Ron DeSantis.
Correct, you help people who are being attacked, or you do nothing when they are being attacked.
I rest my case.
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
You’re doing more harm than good when you try to control what people think.
I dont think going further to the right will stop people from going further right
I have seen similar arguments from people like this again and again. “You’re driving people to the right with your left-wing ideas!”
What?
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
“Ya know I stood for things like labor rights, marriage equality, women’s rights, and then I was told to respect people and stand up for their civil liberties and then I became more and more right wing, and abandoned all previous morals and ethics because someone said something mean to me online a few too many times.”
If I changed my mind on shit because someone was rude I’d never have a firm opinion on anything.
It’s not about being mean.
You literally will go out of your way to make sure people can’t share ideas that go against the trans agenda.
Like it or not, this will cause rational people to abandon your cause altogether because you’re trying to manipulate them into agreeing with you.
“People are being hurt and we need to do something.”
“I don’t wanna, inconveniences me.”
“Then you’re not helpful, you’re at best not helping victims, at worst aiding in prolonging their pain.”
“Now you’ve lost me as an ally!”
Go bother someone else you can grift into thinking “the left got too crazy for me, so i left the left” as you claim you got cancelled and blacklisted as you make hundreds of thousands on right wing media.
Yeah, now you’re just playing leapfrog with yourself.
Thanks for proving my point.
Existing is not an agenda.
Right. Trying to control what people think and censoring anyone who disagrees is an agenda, though.
No one is censoring you, they’re disagreeing with you. There’s a big difference.
Censorship is when people in charge take books out of the library because they don’t want black kids or gay kids to have positive role models. It’s when people are put in prison for protesting climate change. That’s censorship, when people in power prevent things from getting said.
No one is preventing you from hating on people you don’t understand online, they’re just disagreeing and arguing against you. That’s two sides, neither being censored. You are not a victim. You are just getting push back that you don’t like against views that other people see as unkind.
I also don’t believe that disagreeing with you is some form of mind control. But I’m not you, and maybe people disagreeing with you and telling you that you have nasty views is causing you to rethink everything and make you less certain that hating on trans kids on social media is making the world a better place for anyone including the kids themselves, but you aren’t showing any signs of that, so I guess the mind control thing you’re pretending to worry about isn’t any more real than the censorship you’re claiming is happening.
No one is censoring you
Completely false. On these very forums, we’re not allowed to say we think trans women aren’t the same as actual women.
Yet here you are, saying exactly that.
Not quite.
You’re literally saying it on this forum.
On these very forums, we’re not allowed to say we think trans women aren’t the same as actual women.
There’s no shame in mentioning this fact. I’m also not a right-winger. Good job proving my point that we’re either with you or against you and you’re trying to control what people think through censorship.
If we have rules against saying things like that which hurt some community members I think it’s okay for mods to remove them. If people want to say that sort of thing they can create their own instances and/or communities which those people negatively affected can avoid there would be nobody to remove them. That’s one of the beauties of Lemmy.
Also if somebody is really of that opinion then maybe they should rethink their definition of “actual women”.
Anybody can say anything hurts them.
I’m hurt every time I see people say there’s no difference between trans women and regular women. Should mods remove those posts now?
They don’t have a definition of “actual women,” because every one they can give has to come with massive “exception to the rule” issues.
It’s different to voting though.
Puberty blockers have been used for decades with no ill effect. It literally just delays puberty, which is irreversible once a person starts to go through it. It’s much safer to delay puberty in children who identify as trans, allow their brains to develop, and have them get treatment so that their mental health is kept healthy.
Personally, I think listening to the trans community on this and having them give advice on how to manage trans kids is better than leaving it to general society who won’t understand the emotional trauma involved. There’s a reason why suicide rates are high with trans kids.
I would associate it moreso with children trying to tell adults about the priest who keeps touching them but end up being dismissed because they’re kids. We ignore our children’s voices to our own detriment.
And listening to doctors on this. Apparently the vast majority of pediatricians recommending puberty blockers for trans kids since it prevents suicide doesn’t matter.
Since when has “listening to doctors” been an American trait?
I don’t know. They always put it in the pharmaceutical commercials that are only legal in the U.S. and New Zealand.
They always put it in the pharmaceutical commercials
taps nose so they don’t get sued
People, Americans anyway, are very good at doing what the TV tells them to do, which always makes me wonder how often doctors are plagued with patients saying, “Doctor, is Phabulux right for me?” Completely out of the blue and unrelated to whatever they’re at the doctor about.
I live in San Diego, and I have met maybe 3 or 4 trans folks in my day to day vibes. Nobody has been weird or inappropriate. Nobody has been anything other than human in the nearly 20 California years I’ve lived here. The fact that there are national effing laws aimed at an actual handful of folks is absolutely wild to me. I’m a ~40 year old cis white male, but you will always have me in the fight, as will anyone else just trying to live life. Stay excellent to one-another, love y’all 💗
Whoever you are, by whatever name/gender. You are worth it.
A friend of mine had a party for her official gender change last year and I was so happy for her!
Just knowing she felt safe to come out in front of her family and friends and was able to start HRT and change her gender marker in official documents felt like a huge success. Not just for her, but for progressive politics in our country.
The fascists want you to disappear. Never give the fascists what they want.
