i don’t know who needs to hear this, who in their right minds would see Ukraine as the aggressor in this war
As i just said in another comment: imagine the backlash if someone were to post something similar with putin face. People are being accused of being russian trolls for the slightest unaligned critic of ukraine government. I’m not questioning it but this post is what propaganda actually looks like
Ukraine had a ceasefire agreement 7 days after the invasion. The US & UK got them to walk away from it.
https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/6kwrs4pplmwj2nxzy9el73gx2w9cfn
I also can’t imagine this ends with the current far-right regime maintaining their grip on power, nor being allowed to continue the genocide of ethnic Russians in the east.
Fuck Russia
“But Putin is my BFF, he pinky promised that he would not do it again.”
i guess the continued shelling of civilians in donbass and the rise of the banderites is russias fault too
I mean, technically sort of, yeah. Continued russian aggression and interference most definitely contributed to the rise of political extremism. Which just so happened to give the Kreml plenty of reason for further interference, such as the direct deployment of “volunteers” into the civil war.
Russia would have had the opportunity to support Russian communities in Ukraine peacefully, for example with beneficial trade agreements and cultural exchange programs. Unfortunately for these Russian communities, all the Kreml knows are diplomatic pressure and coercion and force of arms. As such, Russian culture was regarded as a mark of oppresion and the communities became targets of both Russian and Ukrainian nationalists - either as enemies, or potential agents.
Note: This is simply my, obviously non-comprehensive, personal understanding of the situation. Feel free to elaborate.
Before the full scale invasion, more than half of Kyiv residents preferred speaking russian over Ukrainian in day to day communication, myself included. If the invasion never happened, I’d still be speaking russian. They literally did it to themselves.
Interesting. I have a genuine question I hope you don’t mind me asking. How come you prefer Russian over Ukrainian?
Right now I’ve switched to Ukrainian in almost all cases, so, right now, I don’t. But, to answer your question about my past preference, it was mostly peer pressure. Most of my friends and large part of my relatives were speaking either russian or surzhyk (a sort of Ukrainian-russian creole, that varies depending on the region).
Of course it is, it always is. Russians are to blame for everything.
This, but unironically I guess.
Since both exist only in russian imagination, yes
Your comment contains as many sources as there is punctuation marks. Do tell me more?
e: that came across as unusually short. I’m interested in learning of this shelling, I’ve not heard of civilian targeting.
sorry I meant to reply but then forgot this account even exists lol. Here is a good list of links with an overview of the Ukrainian civil war from 2014 onwards:
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/7112898
specifially this documentary is interesting
I went hunting for sources and found this. It seems to highlight the chaos in the region more than assigning blame.
Weird how banderites never “shelled civilians” before russian invasion, innit?
And then they suddenly have been doing it for 8 years
banderites never “shelled civilians”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Donetsk,_Rostov_Oblast
On 13 July 2014, mortar shells fired from Ukrainian territory landed in the courtyard of a private home in the border town of Donetsk. The shelling killed one civilian and injured two others
The Ukraine-Russia conflict has begun to sound a lot like the Israel-Gaza conflict, in so far as you’ve got these little media bubbles where “My side has NEVER done ANYTHING wrong and they just want to kill all of us, so everyone on their side is a valid target for shelling.”
You were unable to understand a very short sentence? Alright, I’ll bite.
Yeah, absolutely, these are very similar conflicts, essentially these are - one imperialist country is trying to completely erase another smaller one, by whatever means necessary. Again, even if this was done by UAF, this wouldn’t have happened without r*ssian invasion.
Russian assistance to Donbas came after Banderite/Azov terrorism. Also, the ceasefire breaking accusations are against Donbas leaders who just wanted autonomy inside Ukraine until the SMO became the necessary action to protect them, and protect Russia against NATO.
Russian assistance to Donbas came after Banderite/Azov terrorism.
Certain liberals simply cannot believe Ukraine might hold it’s own violent reactionary elements, posed to do violence against ethnic Russian civilians.
That’s why you had the Canadian parliament applauding a member of the Wauffin SS a few years back.
That’s why liberals will refer to Russian conscripts as “Orks” and make up fanciful stories about 40 beheaded babies to justify hospital bombing in Gaza City.
That’s why Americans elected a Mussolini loving convicted criminal to their highest office, for fear of a brown woman candidate being too nice to other brown people.
The propaganda machine is eating itself. Westerners are completely incapable of seeing through their local brand of fascist agitprop.
Biden was the most neocon/zionist/republican/warmonger the DNC loved, but manufacturing a war on Russia was not an election platform. I won’t condemn liberalism, except for the complete stupidity of trusting DNC to be a liberal organization instead of warmongering neocons first. The gullibility that Biden/DNC must be good just because they are the lesser evil, just led to protests over the weekend for more war on Russia.
We’ve reached body snatcher level of political dysfunction. I’m still resistant to impune liberal rationality. Trump or Putin Derangement syndrome is simply disturbing people to be against peace. Let me assure everyone that war on Russia was and still is a bad idea. Surely a new war will happen soon enough for you to be happy again.
We’ve reached body snatcher level of political dysfunction.
It drives me up the wall when you’ve got a Tech Bro / Finance Freak Cartel running the White House and the only response I see on these big liberal forums is “Putin is in control!”
Like Peter Thiel and Robert Mercer and Miriam Adelson and Linda McMahon don’t exist.
Are these things that happened in the magnitude you are implying?
Because memes aren’t journalism: you got any sources?
- “Opinion”
- Paywalled
Use archive.is to circumvent paywall.
Memes aren’t journalism, but this is a meme community, not a news community. However, one could argue that this is not exactly a meme, so your point is fair.
I’d still like to get the sources. Otherwise, content like this is like disinformation spreads. Meme community or not.
I absolutely agree on your point about misinformation. I was trying to hint that maybe none of this belongs here, despite me personally resonating with the “meme”. I guess I am just rambling, don’t mind me.
Whats wrong here? It should always be ok to ask for sources!
In this case the research is significant and it is reasonable to assume that avid readers here know the sources and need less research to respond quickly.
Here a quick overview:
Minsk Protocol (Sept 5, 2014)
Early on both sides supported militant groups with arms (e.g. the far right right Azov group for Ukraine and DPR for Russia), the governments did agree to a ceasefire, the groups didn’t care and both sides violated it numerous times. Ukrainian supported troops were shelling near Donetsk (Sept 20, 2014) and the DPR executed full scale attacks. https://web.archive.org/web/20141023221330/http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/mideast/2014/10/23/ukraine-rebels-vow-to-take-back-cities.html
Minsk II (Feb 12, 2015)
Ukraine did shell Horlivka (March 10, 2015) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Horlivka , killed civilians; claimed retaliation. The DPR tried to capture Debaltseve right before the ceasefire and failed to do so completely before it came into effect. As a result fighting within the city continued and the DPR even claimed the ceasefire did not include Debaltseve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debaltseve so this was also violated by Ukraine too, but now we see a shift towards more Russian violations.
Later violations
The last violations where Ukraine can be assigned any noticeable role in are around 2020. Now that the military is more organized the troops do follow ceasefire orders more strictly and violations for ceasefires after 2020 can be nearly unilaterally assigned to the Russian side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements (follow the links from there to more recent ceasefires)
So the image/meme is mostly true but also propaganda (as to be expected). I also do not know where the number of 20 agreements comes from. I do know/find details of about 8. Maybe somebody else can provide a list?
So in summary: The message is true. Russia and mainly the DPR troops they support can not be trusted to follow ceasefires as long as the conditions at the front do not significantly change.
I like sticking to the facts and do not agree with the presentation in the image, but at least its still way way closer to the truth than Russian propaganda. In this case sticking to the facts would even have sent the same message and not give the Russians any point where they can base their counterpoint on. On the other side differentiated and detailed analysis is not that well suited to steer up emotions and support for the cause.
Thank you, seriously. It’s really exhausting how much resistance you face when you try to question Ukrainian propaganda.
I agree with you about sources, but instead of asking and waiting you can search for them as well. I did a quick search for some of the information in the image and I got some results about 200 rounds of talks since 2014. Not ones I recognize so I can’t say if they’re legit or not but it only took a few seconds to get that at least that far.
I’m not OP, though. Not everyone will do the googling themselves and if you’re posting stuff like that, I think it’s a responsibility of the OP to supply the sources.
Otherwise, that’s the exact same strategy misinformation peddlers like LibsofTiktok use.
LibsOfTiktok, on the right, was effective. They are, apparently, much better at motivating people than you are.
Also, let’s not pretend you don’t just disagree with what is being said. Nobody asks for sources until it’s an issue somebody might pick up a sign over.
LibsOfTiktok, on the right, was effective. They are, apparently, much better at motivating people than you are.
I don’t get why you’re comparing me to libs of tiktok. Do I look like I’m trying to be an influencer to you? O.o
Also, let’s not pretend you don’t just disagree with what is being said.
I think it’s naive to take anything someone as biased as Selensky is saying at face value.
Nobody asks for sources until it’s an issue somebody might pick up a sign over.
Lol, first day on the internet, I assume? xD /j
Do I look like I’m trying to be an influencer to you?
You’re arguing with one. What do you think OP is doing?
as biased as Selensky
Ah, so you’re not impartial. Funny how easy it was to figure that out.
With the time you took to comment you could have looked it up yourself, and then with a bit more time you could have posted the sources here. You’re consciously choosing to not be informed, and to do nothing yourself and expect random people to do work for you.
We’re talking about major recent history from 2014. Unless they’re 12, they don’t really have an excuse to be this ill informed for an entire decade. The time it took to comment is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of their time spent in willful ignorance.
It’s OP’s responsibility to give sources on the issue. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Not in a meme community, that’s not the point of the community
You’re not a messenger, you’re whining because you couldn’t bother to Google something yourself
Would you argue the same way if someone would post libs of Tiktok propaganda here?
No, I’d laugh at you for doing so
If you insist on the “meme” aspect, how is this post even a meme??
Learn what a meme is before commenting on the topic next time
And you could have done the same and posted it for the rest of us instead of wagging your finger.
Number of ceasefires: https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-gave-trump-list-of-all-ceasefires-violated-by-russia/
Number of talks: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3784793-kuleba-ukraine-held-200-rounds-of-talks-with-russia-since-2014-but-that-did-not-stop-putin.html
The source for the meme appears to be a tweet from the Ukraine foreign minister. Zelensky has quoted similar numbers. These numbers are coming out of Ukrainian officials’ mouths and not 3rd party journalists and it’s not at all clear on how they’re counting since I can’t find easily any other sources.
Side note: with how bad Google is nowadays, people should never chide anyone else for being unable to locate a source themselves again.
“Russia violated all of the ceasefires and talks since 2014, but it is really important that the exact number is verified by 3rd parties.”
You dismissing the overall point by focusing on the absolute least important detail. If the number of talks and ceasefires is greater then zero and Russia has violated all of them, then why does it matter if there were two dozen or two hundred?
Because details fucking matter, that’s why? It matters even if the side I’m on is the one potentially exaggerating. Don’t you care to know that? Or do the facts not matter to you anymore?
Because when someone starts arguing that there were 33 violations and not 35 or something along those lines I know they are just trying to derail the discussion away from the point that matters: Russia has consistently violated ceasefires and that is why security guarantees are needed.
Researching “20” is hard. Israel certainly likes to claim that other side breaks ceasefires. There is usually an opposing narrative.
This isn’t disinformation unless you don’t believe Zelensky. Besides that, we’re talking about large scale violations.
If you go digging you’ll find literally 10s of thousands of violations, shit just look at this from 2017 https://osce.usmission.gov/on-russias-ongoing-violations-in-ukraine-12/
I suggest using a search engine.
This isn’t disinformation unless you don’t believe Zelensky.
yeah, not exactly the most unbiased source, I recon. If something is disinformation or not shouldn’t really hinge on whether you believe someone, btw.
Besides that, we’re talking about large scale violations.
So? Even easier to get sources, right?And even more suspicious that it doesn’t ring any bells.
The sources you supplied are literally participants in the NATO/Russia conflict.
I suggest using a search engine.
Pardon my French, but: Screw you.
Well the source is one of a number that document violations of the Minsk agreement. You don’t just need to read that one and it’s from 8 years ago I just grabbed it to show how long Russia has been ignoring their related ceasefire agreements. I think the source is relatively neutral but you are right it may have some bias, it’s about as neutral as English language sources come though.
I think this post may be off in interpreting or wording because Russia has had major violations of a number of treaties, notably recently the Minsk agreement but I think Zelensky is talking about 25 major violations not 25 separate agreements.
Regardless of all of that, Russia has a very long history of not honoring their truces and ceasefires and using them as a reprieve to beef up their military forces before continuing to fight.
Your French has been pardoned but fuck you too pal.
The source still is the US government, i.e. NATO. It can hardly be interpreted as impartial.
You’re touching on why “just google it” is a horrible advice: sources in english language will emphasize the western consensus who have a vested interest in weakening Russia and are in an active economical war with Russia. it’s really hard to find english speaking, impartial sources.
From what I found online, while the claims of “genocide” are blown out of proportion, Ukraine has still also violated the Minsk treaty by attacking Donbas.
I think it’s important to note that I don’t want to condone neither Russia, nor Ukraine. Even if everything is true about Russian minorities in the Donbas: I don’t think that being conscripted is too much better. But I also think that the Ukrainian state is using its’ own population as cannon-fodder to fight a proxy war for the west (if it weren’t a proxy war, the changing stance of the US wouldn’t be as big of a problem).
Fuck states. All of them. No war but class war.
What do you want me to say, that it’s clear Russia continually violates ceasefire for the past 20 years of various nation states?
Like idk you can go find plenty of sources that say that I’m sure some won’t be in English but you’re not going to ever find something from Russia themselves that says “yeah we violated this shit”
Zelensky confirmed it was 25 in his meeting with Trump.
The image describes 2014-2022. So it seems he’s had 5 additional sit-downs with Russia between 2023-2025.
At least someone is trying to make peace happen (Ukraine).
I don’t recall hearing about 20 ceasefire agreements.
I think somebody has misunderstood a comment made by Zelenskyy at the International Summit on the Support of Ukraine, held this February just passed. Zelenskyy said:
We remember that Russia has violated the ceasefire more than 25 times since 2014.
Zelenskyy is talking about the ceasefire which formed part of the Minsk agreements. Representatives from both Ukraine and Russia signed these agreements, with the final protocol’s first point being:
- To ensure an immediate bilateral ceasefire.
This is the ceasefire agreement which Russia has violated. That is to say, there haven’t been 20 separate ceasefire agreements, there was one which Zelenskyy told the Summit Russia had violated more than 25 times.
That makes more sense. 20 separate ceasefire agreements in the space of ~8 years would be quite eyebrow raising.
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Ukraine, Russia, the DPR and LPR signed a ceasefire agreement, the Minsk Protocol, in September 2014.[40] Ceasefire breaches became rife, 29 in all,[41] and heavy fighting resumed in January 2015, during which the separatists captured Donetsk Airport. A new ceasefire, Minsk II, was agreed on 12 February 2015. Immediately after, separatists renewed their offensive on Debaltseve and forced Ukraine’s military to withdraw.[42] Skirmishes continued but the front line did not change. Both sides fortified their position by building networks of trenches, bunkers and tunnels, resulting in static trench warfare.[43][44] Stalemate led to the war being called a “frozen conflict”,[45] but Donbas remained a war zone, with dozens killed monthly.[46] In 2017, on average a Ukrainian soldier died every three days,[47] with an estimated 40,000 separatist and 6,000 Russian troops in the region.[48][49] By the end of 2017, OSCE observers had counted around 30,000 people in military gear crossing from Russia at the two border checkpoints it was allowed to monitor,[50] and documented military convoys crossing from Russia covertly.[51] All sides agreed to a roadmap for ending the war in October 2019,[52] but it remained unresolved.[53][54] During 2021, Ukrainian fatalities rose sharply and Russian forces massed around Ukraine’s borders.[55] Russia recognised the DPR and LPR as independent states on 21 February 2022 and deployed troops to those territories. On 24 February, Russia began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, subsuming the war in Donbas into it.
Make no Mistake: Russia is trying to destroy Ukraine since 2014. Russia is the agressor and needs to put in its place.
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Russia is trying to destroy Ukraine ever since both of them were founded as independent counties. This is just a reiteration of what we’ve already seen in the russian empire and in the USSR. History is a merry-go-round and I’m getting motion sick of all the rotation.
Edit: typo
This is just a reiteration of what we’ve already seen in the russian empire and in the USSR
Comparing the Russian Empire and the USSR is the most ahistorical thing you can possibly do. During the Russian Empire and for all of history before that, Ukraine was a people without a nation. Oppressed, without representation, without borders, without a right to education or even learning to read in their language.
The Bolsheviks, with their first constitution in 1917, granted the right to self-determination and secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire, which Lenin referred to as “the prison of peoples”. Quite literally after Poland seceded in this legal fashion, the Polish government decided it wanted to return to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth borders, and proceeded to unilaterally invade Ukraine and part of modern Belarus. It was the Red Army of the Russian Socialist Federation of Soviet Republics, that fought off the Polish invasion and established a lasting Ukrainian People’s Republic for the first time in history.
This wasn’t without controversy: while Lenin argued for the right to representation and to a Ukrainian Republic within the USSR, others like Rosa Luxembourg argued for a united, more homogeneous sort of socialist soviet nationality that outgrew former nationalisms. It is partially thanks to Lenin that Ukraine ended up having its own borders, administration and representation.
I know what you’ll say: “but Holodomor! Genocide against Ukrainians!”. The famine of the USSR was a sad and unintended consequence of bad policy during the collectivisation/dekulakization process of the early 30s. Millions of people died both within Ukraine and without it, especially as well in Central Asia and southern Russia. As bad as it was, and as avoidable as one can argue it may have been, there’s simply no evidence of any intent of attack towards Ukrainian people, it’s not precedented by anything similar, and it’s not followed by anything similar in the entire history of the USSR.
In those decades and the ones to come, Ukraine would obtain and solidify its own nationality, people would for the first time obtain generalised literacy in their own language, the right to study in their language up to university level, a majority of publications (both journalistic and literary) in Ukrainian, and the very next president of the USSR Nikita Khruschchyov would be Ukrainian.
Attempting to construe a history of oppression of Ukrainians in the USSR is nothing but fictitious, anti-communist and russophobic propaganda, meant to create a divide between Ukrainians and Russians. There are clear geopolitical reasons to do so, and there are clear reasons why Ukrainians are very much afraid or simply hate Russians, because of the modern proto-fascist state that the Russian Republic has become. But creating a line between this capitalist country, the socialist USSR, and the feudalist Russian Empire, is simply an attempt to divide Eastern Europe further and to push Ukraine towards the EU and away from Russia. This point can be argued for without resorting to russophobic and anticommunist myths. We’re smarter than this.
Nah, USSR discarded socialism and communism the moment Lenin decided he didn’t like losing the elections, and Stalin made it worse for decades. There’s nothing anti-communist in calling out an authoritarian dictatorship for what it was.
During the Soviet times there were repeated attempts to homogenize (as you said) all non-russian ethnicities into one big Soviet mass, easy to manage and control. Russian language, culture and values were held as the supposedly communist ideal future at the cost of national identity, replaced by pretense of representation.
Not just Holodomor, but also forced relocations of Ukrainians, Belarusians, Crimean Tatars and other Eastern European ethnicities contributed to that.
So, maybe tune down on Soviet apologia in front of people whose parents and grandparents literally had to live there.
Goes back to the Russian Revolution at the very least, though probably to the the Russian Empire. Historical data send to suggest that the Russian elite will not accept anyone but Russian hegemony over the region. The Bolsheviks betrayed the Ukrainian Anarcho-Communists who had helped to defeat the White army because they wanted independent self-governance rather than bowing to the Bolsheviks’ authoritarian Central Council in Moscow.
Fuck lemmy for leaking politics to every possible community and not removing it on user reports. What a cesspool of a platform.
the amount of Fascist, Jingoistic shitposting that favors either Republican or Russian propaganda on social media is STAGGERING. The people arguing for it are more concerned about bathroom gender signs, DEI, wokism, and a bunch of other made up stuff, and not only are they oblivious that their country is being taken over by a foreign aggressor, THEY ARE PROUD OF IT. Because “at least the Russians kill the gays”
We are in this position we are today, because Russia has been waging an information war against NATO countries for 15-20 years. and the seeds they planted during the days of Georgia and Crimea, are blooming into fruit now.
The free world is AT WAR with Russia, and for the time being, America has been conquered. Victory from the jaws of Defeat, for the Russian mafia
Seriously they should just assassinate Putin at this point. If he’s anything like Trump then half of Russia will be joyful.
Oh he’s worse than Trump, in that most of russia actually worships him. He’s literally not giving his country a chance to think about alternatives.
Russians overwhelmingly understand this is a defensive war for them. The most extreme delusional propaganda we are fed is that provoking this war would help overthrow Putin with pro NATO liberalism. NATO is not a purely defensive alliance desperately trying to convince Russians of love and freedom from submission to them.
Yes, I’m sure Russians believe that invading another nation and sending their children to die is “defensive.” After all, they’re fed the propaganda of the fascist dictator, Putin. Just as the people of North Korea are made to believe the outside world is evil…
The far-right in Ukraine was slaughtering ethnic Russians for 8 years before the invasion, and letting NATO move in missile & troop deployments to the Russian border. Yes, that kind of thing makes people feel as though they’re on the defensive.
If Russia withdrew their troops, there would be peace immediately.
If Ukraine withdrew their troops, Ukraine would be no more - and there’s no indication Russia would stop there.
Lots of LLM bots today. We may need to start verifying accounts :/
I’ve been noticing this a lot. There’s a lot more Russian support in all my apps. I really think there’s a concerted effort that is now being fully enabled by our current administration.
The US officially de-prioritized countering Russian cyber threats a few days ago. It makes sense they would become more emboldened
I don’t doubt this, but I haven’t personally noticed it before. Can you share more insight about what you noticed, so I can be on the lookout?
There wasn’t peace before Russia invaded. The far-right US puppet regime was slaughtering ethnic Russians in the east, and allowing NATO to move in troop and missile deployments to the Russian border.
Why would Ukraine behave differently after a Russian withdrawal, when they were escalating for 8 years prior to the invasion?
Arent your eyes watering? How can you even type? With putins cock jammed so far your throat? No gag reflex?
What is it about NATO & Israeli bots that causes y’all to so reflexively gravitate towards sexual violence? Is it part of the official training, or are y’all just like that?
You’re either a bot, a troll or just plain old stupid. Even if you’re just stupid, you’re not worth my time because I cant fix stupid, and there’s really no point in arguing with you.
Na just a MAGA trumpist. They are like that, their brains have permanently atrophied and they cannot understand information any more, they just keep parrotting their bullshit endlessly like a broken record.
If Russia withdrew their troops, there would be peace immediately
That’s technically true. However, Russia uses military force in its sphere of influence for a reason, not solely because Putin bad (which he is, I’m a commie and Putin is fascist-adjacent at best).
Russia, like all big capitalist countries, wants to secure a sphere of influence in which it can do easy trade, influence the politics, and generally have support from these countries. The US does this for example with western Europe through NATO, and with less diplomatic methods by supporting coups and invading other countries. China does this through economic trade and through massive investment projects. Russia is in a weak position internationally, barely recovered economically from the dismantling of the USSR, and it’s surrounded by former soviet republics very much in a similar plane (barely economically recovered from the 90s crisis as a consequence of the dismantling of the USSR).
These post-soviet republics, such as Ukraine or Georgia, adopted capitalism (as Russia did) in a very quick and disorderly fashion, and the resulting oligarchs and capitalist owners ended up fumbled in a mix of pro-russian and pro-european/US positions.
The EU and the USA both exert pressure on these countries to try and bring them to their side. Being economically and politically stronger, they can use trade, diplomacy, intelligence and economic means to alienate these countries front the Russian sphere of influence. Russia, in a more precarious and weaker economic and political position, simply doesn’t have the means to maintain the diplomatic, economic and intelligence means to maintain these countries aligned to itself.
The war in Ukraine, much as the interference in Georgian and Romanian elections by the EU, mustn’t be understood as a struggle between freedom and oppression. It’s sadly just a struggle between two capitalist empires, namely Russia and US/EU, fighting for the control of smaller countries that they want aligned to themselves.
Once Russia doesn’t have the means to economically, diplomatically and through intelligence, to influence its former sphere of influence into staying by its side, the only option left is the military route. The US and the EU know this, and they keep trying to mess with Russia’s sphere of influence for gains to their empires. The reality is that there is no good side and no bad side: it’s just struggle between opposing empires.
So yes, technically if Russia withdrew its troops, there would be peace. But this peace would mean that firstly the surrounding regions around Russia, and Russia itself, would become colonies and vassal states of the western world. It wouldn’t mean “freedom” for Ukraine, as we can see by the exploitative contract for the minerals of Ukraine that the US offers. If you think the EU will offer something substantially less exploitative towards Ukrainians, you’re wrong.
Ukraine, sad as it is, as long as it remains a state between empires, will suffer the effects of both. And only socialism in Europe and Russia can offer a meaningful response to this.
And only socialism in Europe and Russia can offer a meaningful response to this.
I mean maybe, but that’s utopian given that all socialism efforts so far where actually authoritan regimes using socialism as a label. We don’t know whether it’d help, we have exactly zero data points.
Regarding the Ukraine problem in particular and the situation of Ukraine during socialism in Europe, I have already made a comment demystifying some of the most pervasive anticommunist, russophobic propaganda. Please give it a read and show me your thoughts :)
If you think my solution is “utopian”, check out this data from OurWorldInData (hopefully a Bill Gates outlet won’t be suspect of tankieism or pro-russian tendencies for you) for GDP per capita in Ukraine since the dismantling of the Soviet Union. Ukraine never recovered its soviet levels of production and of quality of life for people. The USSR was no utopia, it was a very real thing, and it was materially and significantly better for Ukraine than whatever options exist now.
- Russia was by no means forced into the conflict. They did it because Putin wants more power for himself.
- Russia has great diplomatic power. They managed to get a Russia loving president in US.
- If Ukraine falls, then there’s going to be some other nation that will be the ”state between empires”. Next will be Moldova. Maybe Russia is brave enough to take on the Baltic countries as well now when the future of NATO is uncertain. If that succeeds, then Poland will be next, and maybe also eastern Germany.
- Ukraine rejected the US offer because it didn’t offer any safety guarantees other than that Trump said that Putin said something. Why should Ukraine sign a deal that won’t end the war?
because Putin wants more power
They managed to get a Russia loving president in US
Holy moly “great men historiography” and “Russia is behind everything I hate” both in one single comment, that’s quite the feat. Great job firstly ignoring the material analysis and geopolitics of the situation and trying to explain history as “big man makes decision”, and then falling for the racist trope that the USA isn’t capable of electing a fascist without external interference, as if the US wasn’t founded in the fascist principles of the Lebensraum and slavery->segregation
If Ukraine falls
Ukraine will not fall. The objective of Russia in this war isn’t pure expansionism further to the west, it’s the imposition of its political principles and strategic desires in its sphere of influence. The Russian government knows it cannot control successfully for a long period of time the now (understandably) anti-Russian radicalised sections of central and western Ukraine, what it wants are concessions in geopolitical and strategic terms. Mark my words: the war in Ukraine will stop sooner than later, and after it, only some sections in eastern Ukraine will be annexed to Russia.
Furthermore your reasoning of “if this nation falls, there’s gonna be the next”, is exactly the way Russia feels about its geopolitical allies. In 1990, there was an agreement that NATO wouldn’t push beyond Germany, and that has been violated first with Poland and then with more countries. Why push a US-backed military alliance to the borders of the US-declared main geopolitical enemy? What consequences do you expect from that? Imagine a Russian-led military coalition pushing for the annexion of Mexico.
Ukraine rejected the US offer because it didn’t offer any safety guarantees
Regardless of safety guarantees, the resources of western Ukraine will be plundered by the NATO block, whether it be EU or the USA I cannot know, but mark my words when you see the economic situation of Ukraine in 2030
Really well explained in both your comments…
Mental gymnastics. Killing innocent people mercilessly is a problem, stop being an insane apologist for slaughter. Peace is peace.
OK, please tell me how the NATO block is any better in this regard, haven’t you literally just been witness to the most open genocide in history and NOBODY in the west did anything to stop it?
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