It’s the same playbook as foreign sanctions elsewhere.
The Assads, Kims, and Putins of the world can get their people to rally into a “bunker mentality” which helps prop up their regimes as a grand and noble struggle.
Trump has brought the same energy home. And history shows you can milk it for decades or generations even before something essential craxks.
Doubt, fortunately. The extremists will largely never be turned, but most Trump supporters are moderates who care more about their own well-being than solidarity with the group. Mussolini is a great example of how an idiot dictator can quickly fragment his supporters and end up in the streets
“quickly” only after massive damage is done.
“You can’t reason out of a position you didn’t come to through reason.”
They just hate for hate sake. It’s time to come to terms that the dumb will not be saved by gentle parenting but need to be dragged into reality.
Sure, but most of Trump’s voters did vote for him for a reason: their lives got noticeably harder under Biden. When their lives get even worse under Trump, they’ll vote for another change of party.
The cultists waving Trump flags and buying Trump teddy bears and reading Trump bibles are fueled by identity politics, but the idea that the average Trump voter is one of those cultists is a lie that Trump would very much like you to believe
It’s frightening how many people on “our” side are willing to simply believe that half the country is irredeemably evil by nature and not just taken in by a smooth talking conman after having been abused by the system for decades.
History has shown again and again that, when it comes to actions, there is no practical difference between evil by intention and ignorance by stupidity. When people are willfully dismantling the foundations of society, I really don’t give a shit if they are aware of the consequences or not, I am unwilling to forgive them either way.
The difference is that ignorance can be remedied. If they were just evil for evil’s sake then that’s it, might as well give up now.
It’s not the consequences for them I’m worried about, it’s the consequences for all of us if we give in to this dumb “they’re just plain evil and the only way to win is to physically fight them” mentality.
I like your optimism. But yes, I do believe that ~30% of our country is ignorant and racist. They are the perfect target for a smooth talking conman.
Ignorant is not the same as evil. Ignorance can be fixed. It’s easier to just write people off but it doesn’t solve anything unless you’re really eager for another civil war.
You’re talking about babies who couldn’t wear a mask during COVID. They have no sense of struggle and no toleration for hardship
They also had their god emperor refusing to wear masks, and political leaders openly denying the disease.
They had support for their grievences.
They won’t get that over the economy. Instead, they’re getting “this is necessary” and “you’ll just have to make some sacrifices for the economy”.
Their God emperor was wearing a mask and taking vaccine shots behind the scenes. He then tells them the opposite.
I even have trouble believing the people that “converted back”. I just think if things change for them and time passes they’ll go back to being Republicans or MAGA.
100%. The people who have turned away from the Republican party have only done so out of a distaste for Trump, and maybe Elon. They are almost certainly not opposed much of what is being done, just how they are going about it, and who is doing it.
Or, they’ve just had their faces eaten by leopards, and are upset that they’re suffering the consequences of their actions.
You don’t get to be a Republican in 2016 or 2024 without being ok with burning the whole system down, with dreams of it being to your own benefit. They just don’t trust the current would-be monarchs to be the ones to actually give them what they believe they’re due.
There’s two kinds of people in this regard:
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The “I escaped the alt-right pipeline” types, i.e. people realizing there’s a cult and leaving it, and getting to understand more about where they’ve been and how they’ve been manipulated by an entire media ecosystem. They stop hating trans people, abortion, etc., practically changing their whole worldview as if leaving a religion. These I believe are legit because they make an effort to comprehend wtf happened so that it doesn’t happen again, and they likely attempt to pull others out as well.
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The casual types you described who will dodge a bullet here and there because a candidate rubs them the wrong way but they’re still fundamentally the same: concerned only with incoherent grievance politics, and therefore deeply susceptible to the same manipulation tactics.
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They’ll just be told that Democrats, immigrants, and trans people are causing the hardship.
“you’ll just have to make some sacrifices for the economy”.
Musk’s new response when asked about hundreds of thousands of starving children directly tied to USAID cuts. It’s a sacrifice he’s willing to happily make.
I just encountered this last night with hardcore Trumper family members. They believe his tariffs are because the tariffed countries have their military subsidized by the American government and they need to pay their fair share. They think xwe’re going to have to “feel a little pain” for a year or two, then “it” will be better. What is “it”? Who the hell knows. They certainly don’t.
My dad isn’t a Trump supporter but he sure sounds like one. He’s fine with tariffs because “we won’t be paying them”. The underlying belief is that we shouldn’t import electricity or other goods, we should be producing our own, we should be self sustaining. And these tariffs are speeding up factories to open up in the states and produce US goods. The adjustment period (a few years at most) will be hard but worth it in the end - everything will be US made. Wohoo?
Never mind that our current infrastructure is crumbling and nothing is being done about it. And Trump is siphoning off any resources the us has. Never mind that many people today live paycheck to paycheck and as a result of this self imposed trade war will starve or freeze to death in the interim. Never mind that even if the US government decided to invest in this, it would take many many many decades to make US self sustaining, and once achieved prices will be higher than if we were to import the goods.
Yanis Varoufakis explains the reasoning
That’s a great read and makes a ton of sense. Thank you!
I wrote another reply to the person who posted but I don’t like repeating myself, so I’ll just give the cliff notes:
Trump’s “America has been treated very unfairly” rhetoric is more likely just an extension of his own persecution complex, which in turn is just standard fascist rhetoric about how “we were once great, but we’ve allowed ourselves to be humiliated by our adversaries… but now we’ll be great again and take our revenge on all of them”. It’s nothing new. And while I have a high opinion of Yanis, I think he’s just wrong here, and I think that’s exactly why UnHerd (a sussy “alt-left” pro-TERF publication) was happy to publish his article.
Exactly. Their entire aim is malicious.
Honestly, “malicious” doesn’t even begin to describe it. It’s more like demonic at this point.
I like Yanis but I really don’t think that’s what Trump is doing.
I’m sorry, but Trump’s “America has been treated very unfairly” is more likely just an extension of his own persecution complex, which in turn is just fascist rhetoric, always with the grievance, eternally playing the victim card (“they humiliated us but we will get our revenge”), so I feel like Yanis is trying to interpret the well-known fascist humiliation fetish into a coherent economic vision… But it just isn’t. Trump’s woefully incompetent, so the only way what Yanis is saying would make sense is if his Heritage goons or oligarch buddies whispered stuff in his ear… although I would be highly doubtful even then that this is the plan, because their priority here seems to be to loot and plunder the state and turn it into a kind of Russian oligarchy with Christofascist characteristics. They’re way too high on power, as can be seen by how much they say and do right in the open, thinking they’re untouchable.
And I didn’t even mention the whole Curtis Yarvin network states tehnofeudalism, which Yanis should know about since he has a whole book called Tehnofeudalism, and I hope he mentions Yarvin and Peter Thiel in there and isn’t just saying how WEF style neoliberalism will eventually usher in tehnofeudalism, right? Right?!
PS: UnHerd is a pretty sus publication with a very TERF-ish bent. While they do sometimes get prominent lefties to write for it, it’s always for articles like this that are useful to them as they don’t really challenge the MAGA worldview (source: a MAGA acquaintance recommended me a recent Yanis interview rehashing this very article, and his takeaway was how smart Trump is). Tread carefully, there’s always an angle with this site.
And where did they stand on feeling a little pain when egg prices went up during the campaign?
That was Biden’s incompetence! The mental gymnastics astound.
… until THEY lose their job to the Trumpcession.
Difference is that Trump Term 1 didn’t really impose a cost on them directly. And so far, the idea of hardship sounds alright.
But when they are dumped to the curb at age 66 with social security cuts, half the 401k they thought they had, and even Walmart ain’t hiring…
I actually disagree.
There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid. They’ll be forced out of necessity to interact with people across the aisle who are giving them compassion.
You’re already seeing republicans flipping before that point from the DOGE cuts. Also, the governor of Kentucky is already flipping after their largest purchaser by a long-shot, Canada, took all their booze off the shelves.
Doubt (x) seeing as he was elected twice, they won’t ever learn it will always be the “other guys” politician’s fault
I really hope that this is what’s gonna happen.
There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid.
By the time we reach that point, there won’t be an aisle. There won’t be a government.
I think this overlooks how most MAGAs are rural… and when you live rural you already rely on your neighbors. Most of which are also white and the exceptions are ““one of the good ones.”” It’s why they can demonize entire demographics and still feeling like a good person since they’re good neighbors.
They’re not going to stop blaming ‘the others’ for hardships… They’re just going increase complaints about ‘the government’ and how much they pay in taxes.
I grew up in Amish country/farmland and it’s painful to see how stagnant my family has been over the years.
Andy Beshear isn’t a Republican who flipped, he’s always been a Democrat.
The question is, will I have reached a breaking point where I will no longer be willing to help them?
MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid
That’s the point. Republicans want to get rid of government aid, because they want others to rely on churches or other private charitable organizations - which are able to control and force the normative behavior that conservatives want.
The government can’t say “stop being trans or we’ll cut your section 8 voucher.” But the Salvation Army can say “wear women’s clothes if you don’t want to sleep outside tonight.” Churches can make you sit through their sermon before they feed you.
There’s also the lovely aspect of church finances being a bit more opaque than the governments… sometimes that aid can trickle up…
If only they agreed that Social Security, Universal Healthcare and just being nice to each other is better for everyone.
If we try to increase the quality of life for everyone, we’ll have a better world.
Some people can’t be happy unless they’re constantly angry about the people they were told to hate.
We call them gammons over here.
Yes, but the number of Trump supporters is dwindling.
They’ve been saying that since Cheeto ran for office the second time and look where we are. 🙄
This is starting to sound a lot like the typical Russian mentality.
Russia’s biggest export atm.
It’s more common.
To add, many Nazis were unrepentant.
And life for most Germans turned shitty really fast, with wages dropping to depression levels with a lot more work hours.
No, they’re selfish and borderline retarded sheep. When a few retarded sheep start making the suffering noise, they’ll all join the chorus because they don’t have the capacity for independent thought
Even more so if it hurts the ones they hate even more. If they lose their job but see five children deported, they probably see it as a win.
It’s very frustrating.
What I’ve seen when I bring what’s happening up to family members step one is denial “oh he’s not doing that” step 2 is defend “well it’s probably for the best, kids do yern for the mines”.
Nothing is convincing.
It’s also defending the cult leader mentality. Breaking with the cult puts you on the outside, and an enemy of the cult. Breaking free of a cult isn’t easy when the cult’s actions are constantly being reinforced and regurgitated by their leader and his media disinformation networks.
It doesn’t help that they have literally been programmed by right and far right propaganda that only influences and reinforces that mentality of “unity”.
the media titans know what they’re doing
And Cambridge Analytica
Those are just the easy parts of the equation to blame. The fact is none of it matters as much as wanting to believe what they’re telling you is true. Nobody can fix the hateful parts of those people except themselves. If they don’t then it will express itself in one form or another.
Yes and no. Media gives them all their cues and phrases. Media gives them their weltanschauung.
I’m a member of a lot of hiking communities on FB. Prior to Trump second presidency, they would blame any kind of problems related to insufficient budgeting to “ sending all money to Ukraine”. Now that he’s the president, and is BLATANTLY cutting budgets to national parks and forests, I see his supporters say “ it’s too bad we donated so much money to the national parks of Ukraine” or “ if Biden did this, you wouldn’t be complaining”, or some version of “ this is necessary, nothing really changed”.
Wild, would assume a hiking community would lean pretty solidly blue and be livid about cuts to national parks. As the last handful of elections have shown though, there are idiots all over the political spectrum.
To be fair, a lot of the do lean blue and are livid. But there are a lot of angry boomers on FB.
I mean, just look at the comment fro the user “Ryan” to a post about a new schedule at the visitor’s center:
If you have trouble opening, I’ll copy and paste.
OP from Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Park:
“NEW VISITOR CENTER HOURS FROM THE Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks official Facebook Account . . .
Schedule update!
The adjusted schedule for visitor centers are as follows:
⛺️ Foothills Visitor Center is open Wednesday – Sunday from 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m.
🌳 Giant Forest Museum is open Friday – Tuesday from 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m.
⛰️ Kings Canyon Visitor Center is open Thursday – Sunday from 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m.”
This one guy responds: “This sure seems like a lot of cuts given the limited number of job losses that I’ve read about. Is this just a political statement? While I wish the federal government would spend more on parks, I’m questioning my substantial donations at this point if efforts aren’t being made to make the best of the situation.”
I remember a moment before the election in 2016. A family member was going off on a Trump worshiping rant. I asked them what they thought of all the awful things that come out of his mouth. They responded with, “Oh, he’s just saying that stuff because he likes to get attention.”
I quoted a passage from Luke’s gospel. “The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil; for it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.”
What happened next was amazing. They kind of paused and stared at their shoes with this expression that, if I could put words to it, would have said, “Shit. He’s got me there. How do I get around this one?” They then looked up, physically shrugged it off; like water off a ducks back. That stopped the rant but I knew that If they had to choose between Jesus and this particular version of the anti-christ, their choice was already made and it wasn’t Jesus.
I’ve been there friend. It is not a fun experience but it was very enlightening. Someday they may see it but it is terrifying to understand how willingly ignorant some of us choose to be.
I’ve seen multiple news articles/discussion about pastors being told that the Sermon on the Mount is too “woke.”
It’s been like that since Reagan. Carter was open about his faith and really genuine in it. He made the mistake of interviewing with Playboy and saying he had his own struggles with sin - as any believing Christian would admit.
But somehow Reagan became the evangelicals choice. Christian nationalism has always been the latter wearing the former as a fig leaf. The tenets of Christianity - as evidence by the things that they fight for their “first amendment rights” for - are reduced down to opposition to LGBT+ people, abortion, and ultimately women having any form of independence from their fathers or husbands. They have had nothing to do with Jesus or anything that could be said to be his message for a long time.
When Ollie North started giving tours on the evangelical circuit - that should have been a wake up call.
Stages of grief. Most are just getting to denial.
My 90 year old grandma has moved onto bargaining. She’s trying to write a letter to DJT to “warn him about Musk”
Not bad progress, considering I couldn’t get her to budge at all over the past decade.
That’s kind of adorable.
Stages of grief
Exactly. It doesn’t only apply to grief — any major change of beliefs will need to go through this process… unfortunately.
Nothing is convincing.
“The GOP controls all three branches of government. Whatever the situation looks like next election, whether it’s good or bad, it’s entirely the fault of the GOP.”
That and cons will always find a way to spin something to cause outrage and anger towards anyone but themselves.
Just went through that with an elderly neighbor recently.
She broke her foot and is in poor health, so we were walking her dog twice a day cause we are nice like that. She was always praising us for being such good people and a godsend to her.
One day, she made a comment that she thought Trump was doing a great job and I gently tried to explain to her that he was ruining our lives and countless others out there.
I was hoping she would have a moment of introspection, but no. She just immediately went on about the democrats, how we get offended too easily, and how she thinks I swear too much but she doesn’t hold it against me.
Everything except: “I’m sorry. I didn’t realize.”
Told her we no longer feel comfortable walking get dog.
Cue the waterworks and the “What about me? I can’t walk!”
It’s not worth engaging with these people. There is something broken in their brains.
They are brainwashed. The people we hate are actually some of trumps biggest victims. They are the victims of brainwashing. And they will soon be victimized in other ways as well. And when they question it, Trump will blame them, othe people, anyone but himself. And like victims of narcissistic abuse, they will do the mental backflips required to forgive Trump.
I know they are brainwashed.
I don’t even hate her.
I feel bad for her because she’s legitimately fucked without our help, but I cannot continue helping her when she cannot even acknowledge that both my life and her own life are so much harder because of her vote.
She cannot even say she is sorry because she legitimately believes she has done no wrong.
She’s blowing up my phone to ask us to please continue walking her dog but I cannot do that anymore.
The mask has fallen off her face.
Did the dog vote for Trump? Help the little fur ball out. I’m sure he’ll appreciate it.
They are trash people who are lost causes
