Linked National Post on purpose. Given their bias I believe they’d present the worst case scenario.
E: Apparently the article is from 2016 so the cost is likely higher today.
Why even pay the cancelation fee?
It’s not like anything going on now is legitimate.
When the creditor calls tell them Canada doesn’t live here anymore and hang up like your room mate used to do for you in college.
Exactly. Canada should just choose to ignore it. Just like the US is ignoring international deals they’ve signed with other countries. Thing is: Canada has honour and our actual signature means something when we sign agreements. I don’t think Canada will sink as low as the US.
I do not think so either but we really should.
Or promise to pay but never do, like Trump did for his campaign rally expenses.
Doug Ford spent much more on canceling various contracts on a whim. I say bail.
I’ve been advocating joining GCAP, an effort by Japan, UK and Italy to make a 6th gen fighter. It isn’t scheduled to deliver the final design until 2035 though, so we would still need a stopgap.
Still, it would send a pretty strong signal and also allow as a path to reinvigorate our domestic aerospace defence industry.
This looks like a good idea. We do have people in Lunenberg, NS that have experience with working with stealth materials which could be a significant contribution to that project.
Could we call it the Arrow? Though I’d also be cool with it being called Spitfire.
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the final platform had room for national partner tweaks. Probably could call ours the Arrow 2: Strange Brew or something.
and also allow as a path to reinvigorate our domestic aerospace defence industry.
Avro Arrow centenary edition in 2059.
America is currently at war with us, declared abruptly and out of nowhere. They just decided one day “we want to annex Canada!”
Even if Donald’s presidency is short-lived and a new slightly saner and less stupid administration takes control, I don’t think it’s a good idea to be trusting the Americans any more.
We need to disentangle ourselves from any military dependence on such ridiculously unreliable “allies.” I’m all for this.
As an American I sadly agree. This is an overreach that shouldn’t be ignored. And if it is OK now it’s obviously not off the table sometime down the road… this isnt something g you just shove under the carpet.
You would imagine there would be a clause in the contract for exactly this scenario. If there’s not, it’s going to be a common one in contacts going forward…
Even if Donald’s presidency is short-lived and a new slightly saner and less stupid administration takes control
I know the hamburglar has got his sights on Trump but if he takes his shot during the next 4 years the US gets JD Vance. Vance will be a lot worse than Trump, I do not know how Musk or Teil will handle Vance.
Do you mean Thiel?
Vance may be much smarter than Trump (low bar) and have actual plans for evil, vs. doing awful things on a whim. But, JD Vance doesn’t have Trump’s cult of personality. Whoever comes after Trump will return to the same normal relationship that a president has with their party. With the modern GOP that means intense squabbling and infighting. I doubt a president Vance could get much if his evil plan passed, even if the GOP did still control all the branches of government.
I think everyone is thinking the same way. I think the probability of the US invading is low, but there is a probability.
Even if the US never uses their military against us, there’s a very real chance they withhold parts for military equipment as leverage in a negotiation. They are already withholding military aid from Ukraine as leverage after all. That alone makes it imperative we end Canada’s dependency on the US defense industry.
@avidamoeba cheap. Talk with Europe.
Yeah Europe should also cancel, the Saabs are excellent while the F35 always has had… issues, and we also got the inferior version too.
@nightwatch_admin you must make it at home, at scale, without reliance on enemies or potential enemies. It’s a reasonably simple matrix to optimise. Eurofighter and Saab, new Euro. Make Australia and Canada and New Zealand and UK demonstrate their commitment to a rules base world.
Avro, 2.0!
@fletch @avidamoeba
IKR
it’s a geostrategic steal compared to staying entrenched! I hope #auspol is listening.@adamsteer @avidamoeba time to put a proper moat around “EURO interoperability” interoperability with USA is a trap
@adamsteer @avidamoeba USA are gone from NATO, stand up, dig in. Is it the easy road? NO! Do you want a future where you steal a toilet for your home town? That’s where you’re headed, Russia
Don’t cancel. “Pause” it until further notice
“Canada’s liability would be no greater than US$346.7 million” – the difference between what it had already contributed and what was remaining of the original US$551 million commitment.
Since the analysis was produced, the Liberal government has paid another US$33 million.
Considering that there are Canadian companies that have contracts related to the f35 and they would almost certainly be cancelled or not renewed, running down the clock isn’t a terrible idea. The $300+m is already a sunk cost.
No say will cancel it and then pause it then cancel the landing gear then pause that then cancel it pause it till it comes back looking like the avro arrow
Yes please. So clearly the right move.
Notwithstanding clause. Don’t pay a fucking dime.
Besides war declared by US, that makes US permissions on every flight a deal breaker, the plane is a POS, and we should be refunded for returning every existing plane we may already have. Cancelling deal for cause, with zero penalty, despite any contract is the right move.
Fuck it. They’re an intelligence hazard and that’s cheap in government terms.
Is there a crowdfunding?
It’s called taxes
And investment. 1/5 of my lifetime economies are now in European aerospace and military companies shares. Something I would have never thought I would do, as a fundamentally anti militaristic person. I don’t even care if I don’t get any economic benefits out of it.
Ford blew twice that to put beer in gas stations. Clearly we have the money to blow 🤡
I’d be hoping that Trump’s time in power would be far outlived by the F-35 program and would be only a footnote in the history of friendship between Canada and the US. But nobody who knows what the future has in reserve.
Significantly. The F-35 programme is a 50-year one. Trump won’t even be alive in half that.
Trump won’t outlive the F35, but the distrust of the US will.
The US cut off military supplies to a country (Ukraine) during an active conflict. Trump did this as leverage in a negotiation. That’s a line that can’t be crossed, and he crossed it. There were no articles of impeachment, and most Americans didn’t pay it any mind. So this is how Americans do business now.
So we should expect the US to use military supplies as leverage in negotiations going forward. Using US equipment means CAF’s readiness is in constant peril for the foreseeable future. Currently it’s at the whims of a deranged old man. But it will always be a bargaining chip for future US Presidents.
The only way to ensure CAF readiness is to end the use of all US equipment. It’s not solely about Trump, it’s about what the US has become.
This is not ending in four years. The US has destroyed decades of trust you think it’s just going to come back after Trump.
https://www.saab.com/markets/canada/gripen-for-canada/built-for-canada-by-canada
From another page:
“In addition, Canada will have full and exclusive control over Gripen’s secure data – a unique advantage of our offer. The Gripen Centre in Montreal will host all work on the fighter’s mission system and Canadians will carry out this work. With the mission system, communications and technical data all hosted in Canada, Gripen exceeds all industrial, security and controlled goods requirements. With Gripen the Royal Canadian Air Force will have maximum control over sensitive data handling.”
It’s a no brainer, in a world of digital warfare, needing to rely on a foreign home base is a tremendous liability.
But we assumed it was ok till recently? How was it ever ok?
How are they the only ones offering that, that needs to be table stakes to even bid
Because we live in capitalist dictatorships masquerading as freedom™️ and democracy™️
Why bother paying anything? Let it go to court. Threatening annexation should fall under some kind of hostilities clause, national security clause, or force majeure clause. Anyway who’s going to collect?
The US government can pay
MDLockheed, they’re the ones who threatened annexation.Edit… Fixed above, not sure why I had MacDonell Douglas on my mind…strange substitution for a company that no longer exists under that name.
Not saying you’re wrong, but certainly that would be added to the made-up list of reasons to annex Canada.
If it is mentioned, say “We have changed our course and will pay in full.” Then don’t pay. Wait a week and say “We changed course and won’t pay.” repeatedly flip flop like a Trump.
That’s less than the total incurred costs of Ford’s decision to break the contract with The Beer Store a year earlier than scheduled.
