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Ok but, awful as this is, “you should consider it” is funny, ngl
Yeah, it’s a sexist comment implying she isn’t either qualified to be at the conference, or mistaking her for a passerby who is unaffiliated, and should consider working there. Either way, I don’t find sexism funny. Dunno why anybody would, but hey, I’m just some guy on the internet, so you do you.
It would work fine if the target was a man too, it’s just one hell of a burn. It’s a shame he was using it for evil.
Burn in something else
In my case i teased a flatmate with “ladies first” when i opened the door while he passed through and he replied with “bitches next”
That is funny because the attacker (me) got payback
In her case he simply stomped on her from the start with no sense of the respect she deserves. No smart comebacks or something, only a douchebag
Why “burn” someone you just met? That just makes you an asshole.
Without any context it or history its just kinda dickish? Like maybe a good burn to a rival in some sort of relevent scenairo but this just sounds like an attempt to belittle someone by “mistaking” them for something “lesser” then when called on it they double down?
Strikes me as grade school level bullying at best 🤷
I don’t think it’s that funny, just a sad defense for not being able to recognize that someone belongs at the conference instead of among the customer service staff.
Unfathomably based.
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Are you a woman? I’ve never met a woman who hasn’t had some experience with this. Sexism is everywhere, and if you haven’t really experienced it, that’s bcz you’re a guy.
Don’t know what the other comment was, but everyone has experienced sexism. It’s inevitable that inaccurate gender stereotypes will be applied to you at some time. For men it’s just the “stop emoting you fucking pussy” or “you suck at nurturing so don’t even try.”
The patriarchy fucks us all.
True, the patriarchy harms everyone. Sexism against women harms them (even kills) from interactions with men, negatively affects education, career, even hobbies. Leads to medical bias which also may kill them. Leads to them being trafficked and used as sex slaves. Experience female genital mutilation.
Andrew Tate is a hugely popular figure amongst young men. Those men are being harmed by the patriarchy but don’t realise or maybe care as they’re too busy harming women. It’s not the same for men, they’re massively privileged compared with women.
The patriarchy is also what sends men to die for imperialism, tells them they can’t ask for help, admit weakness, or be vulnerable. It’s why the ratio of suicides is 6:1 men to women in the US and men are something like 4 times more likely to die deaths of despair, take jobs that destroy their body, or get rejected from jobs that deal with caring or teaching because of biased assumptions of pedophilia and sexual abuse.
Yes, some (read: cis, hetero, rich) men are privileged by the system, and we should absolutely not discount women’s experiences, but it’s not one or the other, it’s both.
Oh, have you been sent to die? War duties are irrelevant for most men. The last conscription in my country was WW2 and women died then too, as nurses near the front, in the blitz, as spies, etc. All genders join the military now.
Meanwhile I think the conviction rate now, in 2025 for rape of women by men is 1%. That means you won’t get justice if you’re a woman reporting a serious crime. Women in america are dying because they can’t get healthcare for their miscarriage and pre-teen girls forced to carry their rapists baby. On shitter dickheads openly gloat ‘your body, my choice’ with no censorship, because abuse of women isn’t censored. Andrew Tate. Not really the same situation for men and women, is it? Women aren’t causing men to commit suicide but men are still controlling, belittling, abusing and killing women.
If you’re actually against the patriarchy you have to realise that it fucks women over way more and always has. We’re only seeing a backslide right now, and I suppose women in the west are lucky they aren’t in a country they would be stoned to death, or not be allowed to be overheard talking, seen inside their own home, etc.
Nobody is arguing that the patriarchy fucks men harder than women because you’re right, it doesn’t.
Your dismissal of the military issue and suicide is an example of your, and society’s, complete lack of empathy for men. Sure, it’s not women sending men to die, or directly causing them to feel hopeless, but that doesn’t somehow mean they aren’t victims of the patriarchy.
Did I personally get ordered to die? No, but I sure as hell had my role as an emotionless working machine, the assumed self-sufficient breadwinner that needed to support my entire family myself even if it meant my life was expendable, pushed on me by men, women, religion, and the media. And if I didn’t want that role or failed to live up to it, I’m a fucking loser and the community doesn’t care that I fed myself to a meat grinder and came out broken.
I promise, it’s possible to have empathy for the women who are being fucked by the patriarchy as well as the men simultaneously. Going back to my initial comment, it was never trying to disregard the scientist in the post, only dispel this idea that there is some individual that hasn’t experienced sexism/patriarchy.
I have empathy for men, in fact all genders are experiencing all of the issues you had mentioned as specific to men. I mentioned conscription because that’s something which hasn’t happened in the west in the lifetime of most men alive today. I might as well complain that women can’t vote. Why don’t you have empathy for women who can’t vote? You know why women usually don’t usually fight in war? Because men don’t just try to kill them, they use sexual violence against them. Not just the enemy but their own comrades.
I don’t know if you realise but women also wage slave and for a hell of a lot less money usually. They’re cleaners, carers, doing the dirty jobs noone else wants. Then they often go home and take care of their kids and chores -women’s work. All while getting zero respect from society. And if the man leaves for any reason, she’s a single mother and therefore worthless. If you want to learn, watch the maid. That’s a good example of a woman struggling against the patriarchy. The father of the kid in that show is struggling too and I do think he deserves empathy but I see who has it worse.
While I agree, men face sexism too, in a different way. It feels like minimizing their experiences, to have someone come in here and say, well, actually, men face sexism as well.
I am a guy, for the record. I just finally started listening to the women in my life who have been telling me for years that they face this stuff.
I don’t think it’s minimizing to acknowledge that sexism is endemic and cuts both ways.
You don’t have to think its minimizing. I’m trying to tell you nicely that it is.
Well, you’re wrong, so maybe don’t be a condescending shit about it
The fact that you are so angry about what I have to say tells me I’m not.
A dot point list would have made this more readable. Just saying.
The irony in how badly you are missing the dot point
and she should smile more too right? god you are a cunt
It may be in a scientific paper, but this is more of an anecdote about the various issues the author encountered, rather than something intended to be actionable and clearly delineated as you’d expect in the body of a scientific article. Therefore a more literary style is appropriate for this section.
My mental model is that bullet points are for when you expect a reader to go over the points with a highlighter, prose for when you want to produce an emotional response. This feels more like the latter.
Yeah i agree with you. I feel like prose is for free-style text, which doesn’t claim to be rigorous. Bullet points always feel like there’s more rigor involved.
If you are unable to read a paragraph, you need to spend your time getting a referral to speak with a neurologist, not commenting on Lemmy.
Oh sorry, let me help: spend time make plan speak brain doctor, no make mean comment here. danger! brain sick or hurt! make speed!
It’s objectively easier to read a bulleted list, but be a cunt for no reason
Then why are you:
- being a cunt
- a pedantic cunt
- all of the above
Don’t know what words mean, I see
oh no! the brain injury is worsening! he’s lost his understanding of hypocrisy entirely! someone call for a wellness check!
Not the same person, looks like you should learn to read before acting like a shitstain again, dipshit
I didn’t even know you could get prions over the internet!
Is this satire?
Never let the actions of others dictate your future. If you have a goal never never give up.
Maybe instead of meaningless platitudes actual change would be in order.
Simpler said than done. Of course I agree with you, but we need deeper changes in our society, in our behaviour as people. If you get told time and time again, that you’re worthless, can’t achieve anything etc. that’s going to leave a mark. Sure, encouraging to not let that dominate one’s thoughts is a useful skill. But it shouldn’t be necessary in the first place.
You can also have a chance to get out of such a negative surrounding, connect with people that respect you and do actions that raise your self esteem (back).
Spoken like a true man. I’m a victim of sexism in STEM, now resigned to finish my degree in Japanese rather than deal with the awfulness that is men in Engingeering.
Victim blaming, classic
What I read was “don’t let these bastards stop you”, as in “whatever they do, you have your place in science or any other pursuit you make”.
It doesn’t mean “no change needs to be made”. Rachel didn’t give up, and was right about it, and it’s good she spoke up.
Who is the victim?
The woman who had to endure constant misogyny during her scientific career. You’re placing the responsibility on her instead of the people oppressing her
Does anyone have info about the lawsuit
Name dropping TU Delft is surprising to me! ETA: found more info here, but not about the lawsuit piece.
https://delta.tudelft.nl/en/article/a-no-thank-you-to-the-person-who-assumed-i-was-the-coffee-lady
Yeah… Not that surprising to me. TU Delft hasn’t been doing so hot. They literally have it all. Corruption, harassment, nepotism. But if you are not a PhD student you shouldn’t be too affected by any of these.
- https://www.ctol.digital/news/phd-termination-tu-delft-academic-fairness-debate/
- https://www.fnv.nl/nieuwsbericht/sectornieuws/fnv-overheid/2024/04/tu-delft-pleegt-censuur-op-eigen-universiteitsblad
- https://delta.tudelft.nl/en/article/inspectorate-of-education-ascertains-mismanagement-by-tu-delft-but-the-latter-criticises-the-investigation
- https://www.omroepwest.nl/nieuws/4830825/klokkenluider-tu-delft-maakt-levens-kapot-ik-hoop-dat-dit-eindelijk-eens-stopt
Thanks so much for these links. I haven’t had time to look into Dutch sources. I have two good female friends doing their PhDs in other universities in the Netherlands in the sciences, and I’ve never heard anything even remotely close to this! They love their positions.
This is a pretty holistic article on all the “badness” in english https://delta.tudelft.nl/en/article/victims-of-social-unsafety-always-draw-the-short-straw-at-tu-delft-an-official-report-that-would-be-the-end-of-me
Edit: Just generally read a bit on delta if you want to know more. It’s the Uni press. They even got censored by the university when they first reported some of this if I recall correctly.
Dank u wel!!
Geen probleem 😉
Thanks. I only heard about Delft from a woman studying there, and didn’t hear any complaints. I guess PhD students cannot run as easily, so they get the short end :(
Actually, I was loosely considering applying there, this made sure I won’t. That stuff needs to be made more public, so that their reputation noticeably suffers. Only then will people care to enact change.
I’m curious there, too.
Reminds me of Sabine Hossfelder, a physicist, who had made some similar experiences.
https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8?si=5zCg4doidh7tSJIM
Proof that educated people can still be immensely stupid and be utter human trash.
Love the part on the video where essentially she says “I was given my first research position thanks to a grant for women. Also, there should be no research grants for women”. Piece of shit.
To be clear, you are criticising Sabine for saying there should be no research grants for women? If so, you perhaps misinterpret her meaning?
If I know Sabine at all from her videos, she would have meant that in an equal world, grants aimed specifically at either sex should not be necessary.
That’s quite different from a “raise the drawbridge” stance - but I’m a casual viewer, so please be kind while putting me right, if warranted.
in an equal world, grants aimed specifically at either sex should not be necessary
Not quite, I’m afraid. Her point was essentially “I had very good grades, so I would have been hired anyway, but instead of hiring me normally, they hired me through this grant for women, which is a form of discrimination”. She’s not explicitly saying “kick the ladder when I’m up top”, but it’s essentially the conclusion. She mentions it on the “what’s wrong with academia” thingy video.
It’s sad that she decided to channel her experience into transphobia, as if punching down will somehow make up for all the punches she got.
Really? That’s news to me.
She also made a video extolling the virtues of capitalism and how science wouldn’t have progressed without it, but then oddly went on to make videos about why she had to leave academia because of profit motive forcing her to research things that didn’t matter but got grant funding to keep her alive, without making the connection that the profit motive that destroyed her dream is due to capitalism.
Not to mention, she’s fueling anti-science perspectives.
Ironically - still successfully highlighting how smart people can be assholes.
Also, she’s very ableist in that she is against autistic people
Was news to me also, very sad news indeed
clearly you don’t understand physics.
edit: oh no, soft science people downvoting me because they don’t understand conservation of energy. shocking.
Not a physicist but fuck it is so relatable.
I appreciate her telling it like it is and not bowing to a pressure to please.
Found an article speaking more about it, if anyone is curious about the context/her work.
This just makes me sad. How can science advance, if we gatekeep one half of human population? In my academic career I have consistently found women to be smarter and better than men. Yet, these misogynistic ideas seem to persist. We deserve better than old farts with even older bias heading the institutions that make up our society.
It’s exactly that is why they’re kept down. Tiny men are afraid that they won’t seem as smart as the woman in the room.
As a man, I try to be different. I mentor the women around me and encourage them to do more, be better. I successfully got one of my mentee to negotiate her salary just yesterday even though she felt uncomfortable doing so. Try to be the change we need
I don’t mentor anybody. I am not smarter than anybody and frankly I am always learning from everybody, at all levels of experience.
I can recommend looking into “science days” and stuff like that. It makes you a lot more hopeful for the future to see a lot of curious, open-minded 12-year olds.
And then they likely become the usual cynic adults, but hey, you tried.
Never claimed to be smarter than anyone, but if you’re experienced then people look up to you. A little bit of encouragement can go a long way. Like my story, all I did was nudge her to negotiate, and she felt the confidence to do so.
Never understood why some people so desperately need to be the smartest being in the universe. You’re a magic meat computers running on a system of hormones so complex that tweaking their balance just a bit can cause unforseen permament consequences. None of us have the right to call ourselves “smart”. Just chill and do your best.
It cannot
When I was in elementary school, we always had a table at the back where the advanced students would do more difficult stuff than the rest of the class while not being completely isolated. The table was always me and 5 or 6 girls. When we graduated high school, I was the top-ranked boy - and the 22nd-ranked student overall. I just took it completely for granted that girls were smarter than boys (although I did perceive the very strong anti-intellectual culture among boys which seemed more impactful than native abilities).
It wasn’t until I went to college that I started encountering the belief that men were fundamentally smarter than women, even though every college and university I’ve attended had more women than male students and the women had much better academic performance. That was my first taste of the power of group delusion.
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Half way through the Hidden Figures movie I started to realize that the racist sexist people in charge really deserved to lose to the Russians.
No thank you to the physicist who declared to a room full of other physicists that biologists “don’t know how to design an experiment.”
That’s just what physics does to your brain. They’re all like that.
Hey, not all of us! Physics was humbling in my experience. Had the exact opposite effect.
I did exceptionally well at a top physics university, and still felt stupid all the time.
It took getting my ass handed to me to wipe that veneer off my perceived awesomeness and realized I’m doing this cause I love it. Why would I think down on anyone else doing what they do cause they love it?
And I sure as hell came to realize that there’s people better at biology than I am at physics.
That said, lots of physics people are high on their own supply. So, not discounting the reality of physics dickheads that are in abundant supply.
I don’t know how it is in the USA, but here biologist graduates are mostly women, so I think the implication is that she was being called a biologist (who can’t design experiments) because she’s a woman
yeah. the rest of this seems like serious grievances, but physicists saying dumb arrogant shit to other scientists about not being ‘real’ fields seems like blaming water for being wet.
It’s almost a punchline. ‘Fuck sexism, harassment, repression, and those god damn smug-ass physicists!’
Shoutout to the physicists dismissing biologist experiment design as a whole instead of across sexual or gendered lines.
I read that as the subtext still being sexist because Biology tends to have more women in the field compared to Physics.
Nah, it’s typical university faction wars. Engineers say crap about architects, mathematicians sneer on physicists and so on…
Engineers say crap about architects
As an engineer, this shit is so cringe… There is a youtube gaming channel with an alleged engineer who plays video games (often related to physics or building things), and his entire fucking personality is formed around mocking architects for being “stupid.” He literally substitutes in the word “architect” instead of calling someone stupid. He say’s “they’re an architect.”
Grow the fuck up goddamn. How insecure do you have to be?
I’m a heavy equipment mechanic, and every day in the shop I hear other guys complaining about how an engineer fucked up a design on a piece of equipment and that’s why it failed. Or that the engineer made it hard to work on on purpose. So cringe. I just roll my eyes at them and tell them if they are so smart then why aren’t they the ones designing the equipment lol
Its sad that all the fields feel the need to shit 9n each other. We as a society would got a lot further if we could all get along 😁
How people can walk out of a university with degrees and not understand how all areas of knowledge contribute towards each other and link together in ways that are not immediately obvious astounds me.
because of a long established undercurrent of competition within departments (and even between professors) for recognition and advancement. That and there are some people that have very large but very fragile egos that can’t allow another person or discipline to grab more sunlight than them.
I heard a joke once that a physical chemistry experiment will have 1000 data points per trend line; I organic chemistry will have 10 data points, and biochem will have 2 data points.
I bet to biochemists it’s very insulting. Back to the comment in the anti-acknowledgements, that was insulting without even being funny.
I like the ones that are symmetrical, like math thinks that physics is easy, and physics things that math is too unreal (I don’t remember the jokes)
a physical chemistry experiment will have 1000 data points per trend line; I organic chemistry will have 10 data points, and biochem will have 2 data points.
There is an element of truth in this, but that one biochem datapoint probably took more money and (wo)manpower than a hundred phys chem datapoints. Which is sad, because biological systems are usually more complex, and therefore more ‘noisy’, needing more datapoints for a definitive result. Medical studies get a lot of datapoints for obvious reasons, and because they can afford to do it thanks to Merck et al.
It’s got an element of truth but they’re still the butt of a joke
My mom is a biologist and complains how physicists always come into biology, try to reinvent everything without looking at any prior work, and then fail to execute their (sometimes interesting, sometimes not) method
I don’t really understand how that one was a problem if they’re also a physicist, or even if they’re a biologist. Nothing wrong with some fun rivalry.
When I was at college us physicists would joke about the biologists and the chemists and the mathematicians and the engineers, and in turn they’d joke about us, and we’d all have a good laugh over it.
I suppose it would come down to the context and how it was said.
There’s always rivalry between physicist and biologists. Or chemists and biologists. Or biologists and biologists. Damn biologists, they ruined biology!
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I read the first sentence in that big paragraph and thought “wow, going straight to the biggest problem right out of the gate instead of building up to it, huh?” Then I kept reading and realized the entire paragraph was about that same thing. Holy shit, that’s a lot of sexism!
I don’t understand the “computer girl” one, did the technician think that her being a woman meant she was doing computer science instead of physics?
If a man told you he worked with computers, it’d be odd to raise an eyebrow and respond “Are you some kind of computer boy?”. The technician treated this woman’s work as something special because she was a woman. In other words: A man that works with a computer is still just a man. A woman that works with a computer must be something special, a computer girl.
And bonus points for calling her a girl, which is just a little bit more infantilizing.
I’m not sure of the timeframe of this, but it could be referring to the time when calculations were done by women by hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Computers
That’s still big brain though
They were paid basically minimum wage, so they weren’t treated the best. They were doing important work, and I personally have a lot of respect for it, but it was (and still is) an uphill battle against sexism.
Oh I’m sure they were treated unfairly. Just stating that I got big respect for those pioneers.
could be referring to “mad men” era secretaries as ibm era computers were just better fancier word processors/typewriters
edit: or maybe like IT helpdesk staff who are like janitors (i.e. they don’t see a difference between calling environmental services for a clogged toilet vs IT for a bricked computer)
