And here I thought this was the nurse from the 90s, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt
But, no. This apparently happened in 2015. Creepy how both cases are so similar.
Apparently this one is eligible for parole now, after receiving 13 life sentences.
No kidding… How strange they both were UK serial baby killers. And Beverley Allitt was convicted before her 25 birthday if I looked at it right. She was caught in '91, so she was doing it as a 23-year-old girl…
ETA: they were both mid-twenties when the murders occurred. I don’t know why I got hung up on that, it is just shocking to me that they were so young and doing something so deplorable. I just imagine some older deranged woman doing something like that. Either way…unreal.
Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.
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There’s a lot of hate here that I can empathise with and I’m trying to not take calls for her to commit suicide or be murdered/ tortured in prison literally. It’s difficult to express hate verbally without reference to physical violence that underscores it. There’s sentiment here that life in prison isn’t enough and I tend to agree, but not in a way I’ve seen talked about here or anywhere else.
Letby should be imprisoned for life, no question. But that shouldn’t stop us asking more questions about what happened here. Do we treat Letby’s murders as isolated, unique cases and expect them to never be repeated? Lock her away and continue business as usual? It’s possible that things aren’t so simple and we need to look into how somebody like Letby got away with so much for so long and maybe also why she began doing something quite so horrific.
Mental illness is an unfortunate reality to come to grips with because we are steadily recognising that it is caused by relationships an affected person has with their environment. That means there is a share of responsibility in all of us and the systems/ institutions we have built to make sure this does not happen again and that we identify it before it’s too late.
It’s entirely likely that Letby will turn to self harm, or other extreme outcomes of poor mental health. We can’t ask anyone to sympathise with her after what she has done, but we can hope to treat mental illness better in the future and offer help to those who need it, before it’s too late. And I don’t mean too late in the sense of killing people, because that’s not what all mentally ill people do.
There should definitely be better trigger points added to healthcare and warnings to signify either errors of judgement or malice. My opinion of the management involved in this case is also very low. The parents also deserve justice with the failings in that area.
The mental health side of things should be taught in schools to let people know when things are abnormal. No one tells you that it is normal to have some of the syndromes that affect all of us in our daily lives. Without realising there is an issue, people can easily blow things up and create spirals that are hard to get out of. Mental health should not just be down to professionals, just like physical health having some awareness of good/bad can go a long way.
Insulting the userbase by implying anyone calling for the death penalty is angry? Check
Bringing up mental illness when it has nothing to do with the case? Check
Implying the baby murderer is mentally ill with no basis whatsoever? Check
“Hot” (in their minds) closeup pic of young 20-something baby murdering
nursehorse-faced bitch smiling? CheckLooks like we got ourselves a SIMP in here, boys
Hot
Dude, splooge one off please, your eyes aren’t working
I am not the one who thinks she’s hot. It’s these losers simping after a horse-faced baby murdering bitch you need to talk to.
I don’t think I do.
The point is to be more nuanced and actually get to the bottom of why she did what she did. By default, people don’t have the capacity to just straight up murder helpless children. If someone does that, something is seriously wrong. What happened in this case? Is it mental illness? Is that nurse this incompetent (unlikely)? Why was this left unchecked for so long since doctors have seemingly voiced some concerns in the past?
Even if turns out to be mental illness, that doesn’t mean that she should go back to business with a warning, she is still a threat to other people.
By default, people don’t have the capacity to just straight up murder helpless children.
😆
What happened in this case? Is it mental illness?
😆 😆 😆
You people are a fuckin’ riot
By default, people don’t have the capacity to just straight up murder helpless children.
Whoa there, citation needed. Most of us don’t do it, but we all have the capacity to do it.
Capacity as in mental capacity. People don’t just wanna murder people. Even if you think you’re in the right, killing people kinda makes people feel bad.
Implying the baby murderer is mentally ill with no basis whatsoever?
Did you actually just type that with no sarcasm like baby murderer doesn’t give reasonable suspicion of mental illness?
Are you that desperate for pussy that you are defending a baby murderer with no sarcasm?
These bizarre attacks are silly, no one said they want to sleep with her - people are just pointing out that emotional responses are easy and feel good but they don’t help - you’re full of hate and I understand that but it’s not going to stop the same thing happening again, we’re saying that stopping the same thing happening again is more important.
I appreciate the leveled comment. It’s difficult to separate one’s more reactive side of anger with the reasonable side. There’s a reason the family of victims of crimes can’t be jurors. I, too, would not be able to hold it together if I was in the position of those impacted by this person. Still, like you said it’s vital we look at it from a position of a civilized society. The lens of Justice should not be focused on vengeance or punishment — both proven ineffective in terms of recidivism. Rather, the true pillars of justice involve: Separation from society, and rehabilitation (when possible). Arguably deterrence, but that is questionable.
Someone like this should not just be sentenced to life imprisonment (as a precaution to civilized society), but also subject to scientific study from both life and after death in autopsy. Every. Single. Part of her makeup should be dissected from checking for tumors (Tower shooter), analyzing her brain chemistry, relentlessly studying her past and psychoanalyzing her.
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A freaking IRL Annie Wilkes
Before reading, I initially thought that maybe there was a reason like she could have mental health issues or that she could be just someone extremely incompetent at her job… But the more you read, the more this makes me want to vomit… It’s truly sickening!
She’s essentially a serial killer so I was looking into her past. Her parents were extremely over bearing, clingy and guilt trippers who were always smothering her, so I’m sure that contributed, but there’s gotta be more in her past that led her to this.
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This is only true if you’re a firm believer in all nature, no nurture. That’s not where the scientific consensus is.
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extremely over bearing, clingy and guilt trippers
Yah, I don’t any parents like that. looks around the room
My parents are overbearing, clingy,and guilt trippers; I haven’t committed any murders yet.
“yet”
Exactly. They still can’t point to a person and say “This person will kill and this one won’t”. It seems to require a confluence of a number of things. A violent childhood, a socially stunted development, opportunity, a lack of empathy and a psychopathic mentality, an ability to compartmentalize (good family man at home, violent psycho outside of it). Even then it still isn’t a guarantee.
They do it because they choose to. Regardless of all other circumstances, the choice is always theirs.
But that’s not helpful, it might be true in some sense but then it is for everything - would you rather wallow in hate or try to understand and prevent similar things happening in the future?
Some people are just born wrong.
That phrase is a bit of a grey area based on context and can be both highly bigoted and offensive if used in the context of hate speech and / or discrimination
Oh my god
Yeah, I was looking for a reason and found none. She is just sadistic.
I’m not particularly “vindictive” but these are the kinds of cases where capital punishment / death penalty seem justified
It’s never justified.
It won’t bring the babies back. It won’t stop her killing more babies any better than prison will. It won’t discourage other people from killing babies.
All it does is turn “murder is wrong” into “murder is wrong (unless I think you deserve it)”… and guess which of those most murderers believe?
A large number of people would disagree with you and they would be right to do so. Your opinion does not mean fact.
Nothing anyone does will bring those poor children back from the dead. That’s not the point of justice. The point of it is to fulfill what the people think qualifies as moral righteousness. It’s what the word actually means if you look it up in a dictionary, and for the majority of people, they believe the death penalty in cases like this is right and I for one can’t fault them.
The point of wanting her dead isn’t to bring the babies back. It’s to get rid of her, permanently, as they rightfully should. We know prison isn’t enough because others have cited the case of another baby murderer who is now up for parole and may be released, completely defeating the point of life sentences in jail.
murder is wrong (unless I think you deserve it)
And that’s how many philosophical schools of thought work, and they are quite honestly more valid than yours. Deontology is a terrible moral outlook and cases like this is why. We can’t have a moral and just society if we only judge morality by action and not by the circumstances of that action, who is affected, who commits it and why, etc.
What you’re asking for is actually unempathetic, cruel, and quite honestly really dangerous for the community.
A large number of people would disagree with you and they would be right to do so. Your opinion does not mean fact.
What a hilariously self-absorbed comment. I never claimed my opinion was fact, but you tried to shame me for it anyway, while one sentence earlier acting like disagreeing with me is objectively correct.
Then you move on to presenting “eligible for parole” as “about to be released”, then stating your opinion about what a life sentence means as fact.
And as the cherry atop a dogshit comment, you throw a fistful of character flaws at me, none of which you’ve even attempted to justify, let alone succeeded in justifying.
Hop back in your clown car and fuck off.
Then you move on to presenting “eligible for parole” as “about to be released”, then stating your opinion about what a life sentence means as fact.
Baby murderers should never be eligible for parole under any circumstances and the fact that she is is the problem. It proves that imprisonment isn’t a guarantee she’ll be permanently separated from society, taking away any credibility toward the claim that it’s a satisfactory means to protect the community.
You just don’t want to see a baby murderer be punished. That’s what the real issue is. And you’re vile and morally repugnant for holding that view.
And as the cherry atop a dogshit comment, you throw a fistful of character flaws at me, none of which you’ve even attempted to justify, let alone succeeded in justifying.
Your viewpoint speaks for itself. You want me to hold you in high esteem? Stop trying to manipulate other people into thinking a baby murderer shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions or punished.
Baby murderers should never be eligible for parole under any circumstances and the fact that she is is the problem
Your opinion isn’t fact and it definitely isn’t law. But by all means, keep demeaning yourself by making it clear you don’t know the difference between “life sentence” and “life imprisonment”, even after someone links it to you.
You just don’t want to see a baby murderer be punished. That’s what the real issue is.
Nope, that’s the issue you just made up because apparently you’ve decided to make amphetamines and BPD your entire personality.
And you’re vile and morally repugnant for holding that view.
Having imaginary enemies isn’t any less childish than having imaginary friends. Nobody is going to believe the fictional character you’re openly building inside your head is actually me.
You want me to hold you in high esteem?
I couldn’t care less and I’ve got no idea what gave you that impression. I’m just going to assume it’s something you want me to feel, like all the other thoughts and opinions you’re projecting onto me in a way that’s clearly unbalanced.
Stop trying to manipulate other people into thinking a baby murderer shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions or punished.
It really upset you to have your little murder fantasy criticised didn’t it?
The other case of a baby killer being eligible for parole is not the same as this one - she didn’t get a sentence till death, this one is.
That fact makes it all the worse.
Don’t hurt yourself explaining why.
I don’t have to. It’s obvious to anyone who actually cares about their community and not defending baby murderers for their political agendas.
Okay, so you can’t.
She is not being rehabilitated and will never contribute to society in any way again. She is just costing people money for no reason. I am normally against the death penalty, but there are some cases, like this one, that make me think twice.
The death penalty is generally MORE expensive than prison for life, and if you don’t want it that way your giving the government monetary incentive to give out more death penalties. Which is obviously a HORRIBLE IDEA
I agree generally don’t really support the idea except in a few extreme cases where it is a solid case against a monster like this.
Why is contributing to society a prereq for living? People aren’t just a means to your ends. Even terrible ones.
You are right. Contributing is not a requirement. I never said that it was, but I could have worded it better. It’s more the fact that she did completely unforgivable things and will obviously never be rehabbed. I’m torn on the idea, but people like her just seem like a waste of air.
Also, how does me implying that most people contribute to society make people a means to my ends? That part of your comment makes no sense. I don’t give a fuck what people do as long as they don’t mess with other people.
I don’t know if she can be rehabilitated, but one of my catch phrases is nobody is beyond redemption. I don’t know if it’s true, but I think it is an important belief. Practically, I’d rather keep a monster alive if it saves a few damaged people with some hope of reforming. I also think that cultivating a mindset of compassion does good things for me as far as how I view and treat other people.
I recognize there’s more nuance to your views, but statements like that are made all the same by people who don’t have very complicated views of things. I debated four peeps at once at work today that were in support of the death penalty, so I might be a bit biased due to that.
I would argue that contributing to society can at minimum mean to be a person of good standing who participates without causing trouble. You could be as useless as a retiree since your 20s and still have contributed to society.
Life scentences are not the only reason I’m against death scentences
There’s also the off chance that someone is innocent, look at the innocent people jailed in america because of racism for example
This bitch deserves to rot in jail
When you use the death penalty on domeone who turns out to be found innocent you can’t get them back, their body is gone
Idk if they even have the death penalty in the UK but in the US it’s significantly more expensive to put someone to death than it is to imprison them for life. Also about a third of death penalty cases end up overturned on appeal. Which is a pleasant way of saying we get it wrong a lot. I feel like that’s important to remember, because you’re not just deciding what to do in this specific case. You’re designing rules, not exceptions.
I totally agree for the US. I guess since I don’t live there I trust the UK judicial system to be more sorted, but that is probably naive.
Even though I am against it where I live, there are still those cases where there is undeniable proof and the crimes are heinous enough to invoke the primal side of the brain. The logical side of my brain knows that it is a bad idea to give power to the state to kill people.
I just can’t imagine how the family would feel in these kind of situations, and sometimes I think the justice given to them can be underwhelming. It’s complicated and I find it hard to make a concrete decision to say that the death penalty is absolutely never warranted.
Capital punishment is prohibited in all circumstances in the UK, that includes times of war. It’s the same across almost all of Europe.
US it’s significantly more expensive to put someone to death than it is to imprison them for life
because of the appeals process. maybe if you guys had an actual functioning justice system over there that didnt convict and sentence people to death because of their skin colour things would be different, but as it stands, THAT is why its more expensive.
No-one hear is arguing over the actual guilt of this lady. A death sentence isnt going to be accidently put on the wrong person. Will she appeal? probably. She can do the same for life in prison too. Its gonna cost a lot no matter what.
In the end she is a worthless, valueless monster the world would be better for if she wasnt consuming oxygen and resources, although pretty sure the death penalty isnt a thing in the UK anyway so the point is moot
What are you getting mad at him for? He’s agreeing with you
wasn’t getting mad at him mate, not sure what gave you that idea
maybe if you guys had an actual functioning justice system over there that didnt convict and sentence people to death because of their skin colour things would be different,
Sounds big mad to me
Oh no! Your pennies!
I don’t have any money, personally. I said she was costing other people money, not me. Oh no! Your reading comprehension!
so real question what the hell would stop people from doing that??
In this case it would almost be letting her off the hook, rotting in prison seems a better punishment.
I hope she spends the rest of her life being tortured by mentality I’ll DOJ guards.
Serves her right
The whole thing is unconscionable imho. Obviously firstly, for her to prey on, and hurt/ murder newborn babies? I can’t wrap my mind around that. At all.
From the admins at the hospital ignoring the worried reports from the physicians who worked on the unit WITH her. The administration went so far as to demand those same physicians go to mediation with her and write out apology letters. Admins accepted her complaints of harassment over the doctor’s concerns that there was a pattern to the infants collapsing. If the DR’s refused to do that they were threatened to lose their jobs!
Then you have the fact that she was in a caregiver profession. Generally the public trusts caregivers/doctors. No one wants to believe that if you have a family member in the hospital, they are at risk of being MURDERED! That’s supposed to be a safe space from the world!
No one will be able to repair the public’s perception of the medical profession if medical professionals kill their patients.
This whole incident is terrifying. Reading the article, it linked to other articles, which I of course followed… that was a eye opening experience. I had no idea that there were multiple occasions that this had happened. Counting babies, adults, and the elderly. I can’t make sense of this.
Also.just like bad cops, bad nurses can jump around the country as well. This also makes it difficult to stop these people from committing more crime. It’s almost the same scenario as well, in regards to people being aware of what’s going on . I wanted to add veterans to your list as well. Search Kirsten Gilbert…
I remember watching a (at least somewhat) factual documentary about another serial killer who murdered elderly people in care. Apparently, even when there are multiple suspicions, even from previous employers, some hospitals refuse to take action. In the documentary it was speculated that this is because it’s apparently hard to get enough personnel. So if someone does an otherwise good job on the surface they won’t look closer. Hospitals are a business, and management only cares whether or not it’s profitable.
That’s scary. I read some articles last night following links after this article. From nurses who like the thrill of “saving lives” (causing patients to code so they can be the “hero”). To doctors killing to get written into their patients’ wills. To one male nurse who killed his elderly patients, by all accounts simply because he hated geriatric women?
The crimes were years ago, but the system needs to be fixed. If a medical professional is suspected of causing harm to their patients, then they should be investigated while being suspended (or removed from direct patient care during the investigation).
If ultimately the accusations are unfounded, then great. However for those times the investigation shows wrong doing. That’s when shit needs to get real. Police need to be called in. Medical/nursing board of licensing should be involved. Otherwise, a hospital should be liable for lawsuits for wrongdoing in my opinion.
They should be suspended entirely instead of removed from direct patient care because they could still cause harm indirectly
It’s weird to me the level of deranged guilt her diary entries show.
We are responsible for our actions. I just wonder wtf was going on in her head that allowed her to keep doing it. She hated herself for it. Like a lot.
This is a mental health issue, do they have free mental health care in the uk?
There’s a big fucking difference between “i hate myself and want to die” and “might murder a half dozen babies this month”.
I think you might be asking a bit much of public mental health care, yeah?
No, not really. Both are psychiatric issues that need to be adressed.
It’s interesting to me just how rare the underlying mental disorder has to be. Millions of people have mental health issues too but aren’t committing unspeakably vile acts. The incidence rate has to be 1 in several hundred million births.
My other thought is that mental health played a role but isn’t the underlying cause, since mental health problems generally don’t drive people to do this. That said, with the complexities of genetics and epigenetics, it’s perfectly possible it could happen.
That’s because the mental health excuse is just that: an excuse. They don’t actually have the evidence to back up the notion that she’s mentally ill other than her diary entries. Those entries could have been forged for all they know.
They not only undermine the very real damage that woman caused by using mental health as a cynical attempt to try to give her an out, they also are being extremely ableist. Committing egregious crimes != mental illness and for them to draw that equivalency caters to the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous.
These are people who know that and who would call others out for being ableist, yet do so freely in threads like this without consequence or a second’s thought from anyone else. Ask yourself why that is.
Aye. Not to mention, there’s a very distinct possibility that the diary entries are true, but are a result of the evil acts. I think it’s possible for someone to fall into depression and suicidal ideation after commiting truly heinous acts. We don’t have any indication what the causation is here.
It’s foolish to think that everyone who does evil just twirls a mustache and thrives on it. I’m guessing that most people who do something like this end up with mental illness or more severe mental illness as a result. It’s far more likely to me that these people are tortured and guilt ridden, evil souls than unrepentantly evil.
Anyhow – The first time I really had my eyes opened to how offensive this sort of language is was actually from David Harbour. As someone with mental illness, it really resonated when he pointed out that labeling mass shooters as simply mentally ill was a disservice to the millions of people who struggle with depression and anxiety and etc and it was incredibly stigmatizing. I’ve tried to be cognizant of that ever since, and the language around this story set off alarm bells for me.
It’s clear everybody labeling her as mentally ill are doing it with an ulterior motive in mind. They’re almost as bad as she is.
Have you ever read The Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt?
I have not, but I’ve heard about it. I remember discussing it in world history class, just the concept.
She might think she didn’t have a problem and rationalized her actions
That’s the sort of evil I understand and can cope with. There is something wrong with her we don’t have the capacity to understand. Some chemical imbalance or growth pushing on her brain in a certain area.
It’s the people with nothing wrong with them but allow evil to happen like the hospital administrators that gets me.
A lot of time there is nothing visibly wrong with them and their background doesn’t explain it
Sadly, we don’t understand the brain yet. Otherwise perhaps certain things could be visible. I know that there is some research how activity patterns in brains of “psychopaths” difffer from other people. But it is all still on shaky grounds.
I don’t think it’s possible to really understand a person that is that level of abnormal. Or rather, when you have empathy in a somewhat normal range, I think it’s really hard to understand how not having empathy works.
You’d have to look at what she got out of it emotionally. Other hospital killers did it for a combination of “They were a burden”, “I was putting them out of their misery” and a sense of godlike power of life and death. Some started doing it for seeming mercy reasons but got so comfortable with doing it that they started killing patients because they annoyed them.
I think you’re perhaps ignoring what I said about the content of her entries.
She suffered from her actions, emotionally. A lot. It’s quite clear she got nothing positive emotionally from it:
"I am evil I did this”.
The note added: “I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them.
“I am a horrible person.
“I hate myself. There are no words. I am an awful person. I pay every day for that.”
“I panic I’ll never have children. I don’t deserve mum and dad. The world is better off without me. I did this, why me.”
“No one will ever know what happened and why . . . I’m a failure.”
“I am a problem to those who do know me . . . it would be much better for everyone if I just went away. I just want to be happy.”
“Kill me” and “Help me” along with the names of some the babies she murdered.
In one, Letby scrawled: “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t live like this.
“No one will ever understand or appreciate what’s like.”
She got something out of it though. No one was forcing her to do it so regardless of her entries at the moment of choice she wanted to do it. She may have felt regret or self-hate after the fact but it is clear that those feelings eventually passed.
Regret or self-hate can just as well turn into driving factors to continue doing harm to others. When you are mentally ill, logic starts completely bending and finally making a 180 degrees turn from normal
There’s a whole lot of mental health issues in there.
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I read the article and didn’t see any diary stuff. Do you have a link to it?
“I am evil I did this”.
The note added: “I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them.
“I am a horrible person.
“I hate myself. There are no words. I am an awful person. I pay every day for that.”
“I panic I’ll never have children. I don’t deserve mum and dad. The world is better off without me. I did this, why me.”
“No one will ever know what happened and why . . . I’m a failure.”
“I am a problem to those who do know me . . . it would be much better for everyone if I just went away. I just want to be happy.”
“Kill me” and “Help me” along with the names of some the babies she murdered.
In one, Letby scrawled: “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t live like this.
“No one will ever understand or appreciate what’s like.”
Death penalty through crucifiction should be implemented in these cases.
Bitch is going to commit suicide in jail and that’s way too good for her. She should live with it every day and be beaten daily. Even that’s too good for her. Makes my blood boil
Reddit would suspend your account for this comment even though it is perfectly reasonable. But I also think why waste time and money on this trash and just throw her into a furnace or something.
Perfectly reasonable
Well you’re living up to your username at least.
Fuck Reddit
Right with ya man
I don’t think she’ll get the chance to do that considering what I’ve heard about what inmates do to murderers
I’m trying to understand the downvotes you have. Like yeah, what you’re saying is extreme. But murdering goddamn infants is pretty fucking extreme. If there was ever a time to wish someone pain, it would be now.
Some people aren’t mental and don’t wish to inflict pointless harm on others.
If its wrong to harm people, its wrong to harm those who harm people too.
Youre gonna get downvoted for not validating the 2 minutes’ hate. There are an awful lot of people who are very excited to find someone they can get away with doing violence against.
Well yeah, it’s a great stress reliever, AND you rid the world of a burden. Win/win.
It’s almost like you’re actually in the wrong and what they’re doing is normal. It’s almost like the problem is you
This might surprise you mate but it’s not normal to fantasise about inflicting bodily harm to criminals.
Might want to talk to someone about that.
Public hangings used to be the social event of the week, on what basis exactly are you determining normality?
The average experience today rather than 200 years ago
That’s like saying we should be tolerant of republican’s fascism. Some things shouldn’t be allowed even if you sorta need to act like them towards them to get it to stop.
No its nothing like that. Shes been given 14 life sentences, how is that tolerating anything??
Have you heard of the paradox of tolerance
This isn’t to say that I’m arguing for torture as retribution, but this almost comes across as you arguing against actions having consequences, which is a wholly different argument, and I understand you probably don’t actually support that, but I’m just going off what’s written. I’m actually kind of with you in terms of the torture thing, like I’d probably just put her in solitary and leave it at that. But yeah, as with tolerance, a peaceful society has to have ways to deal with violence, lest it become a violent society.
This has nothing to do with the paradox of tolerance. Not even slightly for one she’s been arrested, charged and given 14 life sentences and is going to spend her entire life in prison. So she has faces consequences for her actions.
and for two she is not a threat to tolerant society, shes a serial killer.
I dont think you actually know that the paradox of tolerance means.
Yes of course I have, how else could I have said “this isn’t that” without knowing about it lol?
Some people aren’t mental and don’t wish to inflict pointless harm on others.
Those are the ones upvoting him.
If its wrong to harm people, its wrong to harm those who harm people too.
Alright, let me explain it to you as if you were a five year old:
No one thinks murdering babies is wrong because harming anyone is wrong.
They think it’s wrong because they’re babies.
It’s a specific case.
If harming others was always wrong, it would be impossible for her to be arrested and imprisoned.
Actually, the nurse wasn’t even using violence to kill the babies so trying to use nonviolence to shame others for wanting that vile bitch of a murderer beaten in prison doesn’t track either.
Justify it however you want, these are not the sort of things we should be decided based on emotion.
“This crime really triggered me so we should influct great harm on the perpetrator” is pretty fucked up man.
The fact that you think that’s the reason why I and many others (I am very clearly not alone in my thinking) believe what we do tells us all we need to know about you. You never even asked me the reason why I believe the way I do, you just constructed a stereotype of me and people like me you built in your head based off dumb things others told you and it’s completely warping your judgement. Learn some empathy.
You are calling for empathy in the same breath as calling for someone to be beaten lol
Paradox of tolerance at work
I swear you guys heard someone say that once and now think you can use it to justify any unrelated bullshit.
Who is “you guys” and what the fuck are you on about?
People blindly parroting “paradox of tolerence” in this case without understanding what it means.
Not at all lol
Inflicting pain on someone is not stopping them from harming others.
Making premeditated violence illegal but then punishing it with violence is retarded.
That’s not how this works yo. The monster is in prison, she will stay in prison till she’s dead. No more need for extrajudicial punishments. No need to torture or to murder her.
There is nothing gained from hurting her further except a bunch of unwashed brainlets get hateboners; further it opens a whole can of worms of extrajudicial, punitive violence.
Isn’t exactly pointless when someone’s committed a crime against humanity – and murdering those newborns is absolutely a crime against humanity.
Stopping her from hurting anyone else is the point. Torturing her just because you can get away with it is pointless.
It would be for revenge, not pointless torture. We can certainly argue if revenge is pointless or not though.
oof
Aye there’s a word for people who take pleasure from the suffering of others…
Schadenfreude would be the term for the actual pleasure derived. And I’m not going to pretend that it’s morally right or ethical to enjoy. But it is human to desire vengeance and revenge. Wishing harm to someone who murdered newborns is one of the least morally wrong instances of vengeance.
Plus, I hold that moral absolutism is an even greater evil. This is why the paradox of tolerance exists, and why the same goes for pacifism. It’s impossible to have a pacifistic society unless you are willing to use violence to dissuade violence. You would probably say that means there’s no difference between the two individuals, and I would have to vehemently disagree. Intent and context are incredibly important.
It’s called a good person who cares about the lives of innocent children. The word you’re looking for is good
Yea, I’m generally a well composed guy, but it’s hard to keep cool in this instance
There usually isn’t much that makes me literally speechless or at a loss for words, but after I read more specific details further down in this thread it actually happened to me. I also can’t remember the last time my eyes actually widened in horror at reading something.
Absolutely, people can down vote to oblivion but I stand by what I said. Days old babies, I cannot comprehend this. It’s that reason I may sound a smidge extreme, for a very laid back easy going person this has awoken a great anger in me.
And it should, but that anger should be directed not to further hurt this sick animal, but towards all the checks and balances that should have caught this earlier - administration that refused to look into it after her colleagues raised concerns, the implicit trust we put into people in these careers, and the lack of screening that lets people like this into these jobs in the first place.
Rightfully so
Simps sniffing after that young hot nurse pussy is all it is. They don’t care she killed babies. They care about that hot pic on the front page.
There isn’t a punishment anywhere close to severe enough for stains like this.
I wished it weren’t so but no amount of punishment will bring the dead back nor dissuade others who might do similar as her.
I don’t think she did it.
Is this because you find it hard to believe that anyone could do such a thing? This is the attitude that meant it took so long for Letby to be caught, as the senior hospital managers ignored warnings from doctors, seemingly on the assumption that she must be innocent, because the alternative was too awful to contemplate. But some people really are capable of such awful acts. Fortunately they are relatively rare.
