I don’t think she did it.
Is this because you find it hard to believe that anyone could do such a thing? This is the attitude that meant it took so long for Letby to be caught, as the senior hospital managers ignored warnings from doctors, seemingly on the assumption that she must be innocent, because the alternative was too awful to contemplate. But some people really are capable of such awful acts. Fortunately they are relatively rare.
Hopefully she will get killed in prison in the most painful way possible
There isn’t a punishment anywhere close to severe enough for stains like this.
I wished it weren’t so but no amount of punishment will bring the dead back nor dissuade others who might do similar as her.
Tldr/ootl… How and why did she do this?
She used her position as a nurse to intentionally kill newborns.
According to this article they never conclusively determined what her motive was. There were theories that it my have been Munchausen’s by proxy or simple sadism in response to seeing the families grieve, but nothing was ever proven. As for her methods, this article details them and I’ll leave you to read up on that, not going to detail it here. Suffice it to say, this woman deserves to never see the light of day again.
Apparently she wrote in her private diary stuff like “I am evil for doing this” and “I am a horrible person for doing these things”. IMO this points more towards a massive mental health disorder rather than someone purposely doing evil acts to achieve their own selfish desires. It sounds like she had very unwanted intrusive impulses and she was unable to stop herself from acting on them.
Don’t get me wrong, her being aware that her acts were wrong doesn’t give her a get out of jail pass. The awareness of her drives being wrong means the onus was on her to get help to prevent her from acting on those drives. But IMO it does make clear that there was no motive, it was likely caused by a compulsion mental illness. This is all IMO though.
The fact that she recognized how horrible the things she did was and didn’t immediately yeet herself off the roof just makes it worse
You’re not helping the stigma against mental illness here
You’re not helping the stigma against mental illness by automatically assuming she committed the murders as a result of it. You are not a psychologist, more importantly not her psychologist, so you do not have the authority to make that kind of a determination.
Claiming she committed the murders because she is mentally ill is an ableist act.
Being mentally ill doesn’t mean you’re going to murder anyone, certainly not babies.
You’re ableist, and unempathetic.
dude, just stfu.
No. I will not be silent in face of blatant ableism.
It’s not fucking ableism. You’re jumping through hopps to invent shit the OP didn’t say just to have an argument. Get a grip.
Most mental illness doesn’t involve murdering anyone. I’d say Ms Murder Nurse is the one really not helping the stigma against mental illness.
She murdered 7 infants talk to her about the stigma against mental illness.
Babies supercede mental illness in the real world.
That’s a false dichotomy. We can make things better for both.
You can resurrect dead babies?
The point is that if you destigmatize mental illness then she could’ve gotten help for herself AND as a result no babies would’ve been killed. Saying “she should’ve killed herself” at best will do nothing, and at worst will prevent other mentally ill people from getting help for themselves, AND thus will lead to more innocent people becoming their victims.
People who are awful and know it should kill themselves
they said while being awful intentionally
Leaving an internet comment and murdering double digit newborns is an interesting equivalence
Shame they don’t hang any more. Maybe she’ll do it herself.
Better that she wastes away in prison knowing she will never be released.
Bitch is going to commit suicide in jail and that’s way too good for her. She should live with it every day and be beaten daily. Even that’s too good for her. Makes my blood boil
Right with ya man
I don’t think she’ll get the chance to do that considering what I’ve heard about what inmates do to murderers
I’m trying to understand the downvotes you have. Like yeah, what you’re saying is extreme. But murdering goddamn infants is pretty fucking extreme. If there was ever a time to wish someone pain, it would be now.
Simps sniffing after that young hot nurse pussy is all it is. They don’t care she killed babies. They care about that hot pic on the front page.
Some people aren’t mental and don’t wish to inflict pointless harm on others.
If its wrong to harm people, its wrong to harm those who harm people too.
Youre gonna get downvoted for not validating the 2 minutes’ hate. There are an awful lot of people who are very excited to find someone they can get away with doing violence against.
It’s almost like you’re actually in the wrong and what they’re doing is normal. It’s almost like the problem is you
This might surprise you mate but it’s not normal to fantasise about inflicting bodily harm to criminals.
Might want to talk to someone about that.
Public hangings used to be the social event of the week, on what basis exactly are you determining normality?
The average experience today rather than 200 years ago
Well yeah, it’s a great stress reliever, AND you rid the world of a burden. Win/win.
Isn’t exactly pointless when someone’s committed a crime against humanity – and murdering those newborns is absolutely a crime against humanity.
Stopping her from hurting anyone else is the point. Torturing her just because you can get away with it is pointless.
It would be for revenge, not pointless torture. We can certainly argue if revenge is pointless or not though.
oof
Aye there’s a word for people who take pleasure from the suffering of others…
It’s called a good person who cares about the lives of innocent children. The word you’re looking for is good
Schadenfreude would be the term for the actual pleasure derived. And I’m not going to pretend that it’s morally right or ethical to enjoy. But it is human to desire vengeance and revenge. Wishing harm to someone who murdered newborns is one of the least morally wrong instances of vengeance.
Plus, I hold that moral absolutism is an even greater evil. This is why the paradox of tolerance exists, and why the same goes for pacifism. It’s impossible to have a pacifistic society unless you are willing to use violence to dissuade violence. You would probably say that means there’s no difference between the two individuals, and I would have to vehemently disagree. Intent and context are incredibly important.
Some people aren’t mental and don’t wish to inflict pointless harm on others.
Those are the ones upvoting him.
If its wrong to harm people, its wrong to harm those who harm people too.
Alright, let me explain it to you as if you were a five year old:
No one thinks murdering babies is wrong because harming anyone is wrong.
They think it’s wrong because they’re babies.
It’s a specific case.
If harming others was always wrong, it would be impossible for her to be arrested and imprisoned.
Actually, the nurse wasn’t even using violence to kill the babies so trying to use nonviolence to shame others for wanting that vile bitch of a murderer beaten in prison doesn’t track either.
Justify it however you want, these are not the sort of things we should be decided based on emotion.
“This crime really triggered me so we should influct great harm on the perpetrator” is pretty fucked up man.
The fact that you think that’s the reason why I and many others (I am very clearly not alone in my thinking) believe what we do tells us all we need to know about you. You never even asked me the reason why I believe the way I do, you just constructed a stereotype of me and people like me you built in your head based off dumb things others told you and it’s completely warping your judgement. Learn some empathy.
You are calling for empathy in the same breath as calling for someone to be beaten lol
Paradox of tolerance at work
That’s not how this works yo. The monster is in prison, she will stay in prison till she’s dead. No more need for extrajudicial punishments. No need to torture or to murder her.
There is nothing gained from hurting her further except a bunch of unwashed brainlets get hateboners; further it opens a whole can of worms of extrajudicial, punitive violence.
I swear you guys heard someone say that once and now think you can use it to justify any unrelated bullshit.
Who is “you guys” and what the fuck are you on about?
People blindly parroting “paradox of tolerence” in this case without understanding what it means.
Not at all lol
Inflicting pain on someone is not stopping them from harming others.
Making premeditated violence illegal but then punishing it with violence is retarded.
Have you heard of the paradox of tolerance
This isn’t to say that I’m arguing for torture as retribution, but this almost comes across as you arguing against actions having consequences, which is a wholly different argument, and I understand you probably don’t actually support that, but I’m just going off what’s written. I’m actually kind of with you in terms of the torture thing, like I’d probably just put her in solitary and leave it at that. But yeah, as with tolerance, a peaceful society has to have ways to deal with violence, lest it become a violent society.
Yes of course I have, how else could I have said “this isn’t that” without knowing about it lol?
This has nothing to do with the paradox of tolerance. Not even slightly for one she’s been arrested, charged and given 14 life sentences and is going to spend her entire life in prison. So she has faces consequences for her actions.
and for two she is not a threat to tolerant society, shes a serial killer.
I dont think you actually know that the paradox of tolerance means.
That’s like saying we should be tolerant of republican’s fascism. Some things shouldn’t be allowed even if you sorta need to act like them towards them to get it to stop.
No its nothing like that. Shes been given 14 life sentences, how is that tolerating anything??
Yea, I’m generally a well composed guy, but it’s hard to keep cool in this instance
There usually isn’t much that makes me literally speechless or at a loss for words, but after I read more specific details further down in this thread it actually happened to me. I also can’t remember the last time my eyes actually widened in horror at reading something.
Absolutely, people can down vote to oblivion but I stand by what I said. Days old babies, I cannot comprehend this. It’s that reason I may sound a smidge extreme, for a very laid back easy going person this has awoken a great anger in me.
Rightfully so
And it should, but that anger should be directed not to further hurt this sick animal, but towards all the checks and balances that should have caught this earlier - administration that refused to look into it after her colleagues raised concerns, the implicit trust we put into people in these careers, and the lack of screening that lets people like this into these jobs in the first place.
Reddit would suspend your account for this comment even though it is perfectly reasonable. But I also think why waste time and money on this trash and just throw her into a furnace or something.
Perfectly reasonable
Well you’re living up to your username at least.
Fuck Reddit
Baby serial killer? Oh….she’ll die in prison all right.
Yea that seems likely
The whole thing is unconscionable imho. Obviously firstly, for her to prey on, and hurt/ murder newborn babies? I can’t wrap my mind around that. At all.
From the admins at the hospital ignoring the worried reports from the physicians who worked on the unit WITH her. The administration went so far as to demand those same physicians go to mediation with her and write out apology letters. Admins accepted her complaints of harassment over the doctor’s concerns that there was a pattern to the infants collapsing. If the DR’s refused to do that they were threatened to lose their jobs!
Then you have the fact that she was in a caregiver profession. Generally the public trusts caregivers/doctors. No one wants to believe that if you have a family member in the hospital, they are at risk of being MURDERED! That’s supposed to be a safe space from the world!
No one will be able to repair the public’s perception of the medical profession if medical professionals kill their patients.
This whole incident is terrifying. Reading the article, it linked to other articles, which I of course followed… that was a eye opening experience. I had no idea that there were multiple occasions that this had happened. Counting babies, adults, and the elderly. I can’t make sense of this.
I remember watching a (at least somewhat) factual documentary about another serial killer who murdered elderly people in care. Apparently, even when there are multiple suspicions, even from previous employers, some hospitals refuse to take action. In the documentary it was speculated that this is because it’s apparently hard to get enough personnel. So if someone does an otherwise good job on the surface they won’t look closer. Hospitals are a business, and management only cares whether or not it’s profitable.
That’s scary. I read some articles last night following links after this article. From nurses who like the thrill of “saving lives” (causing patients to code so they can be the “hero”). To doctors killing to get written into their patients’ wills. To one male nurse who killed his elderly patients, by all accounts simply because he hated geriatric women?
The crimes were years ago, but the system needs to be fixed. If a medical professional is suspected of causing harm to their patients, then they should be investigated while being suspended (or removed from direct patient care during the investigation).
If ultimately the accusations are unfounded, then great. However for those times the investigation shows wrong doing. That’s when shit needs to get real. Police need to be called in. Medical/nursing board of licensing should be involved. Otherwise, a hospital should be liable for lawsuits for wrongdoing in my opinion.
They should be suspended entirely instead of removed from direct patient care because they could still cause harm indirectly
Also.just like bad cops, bad nurses can jump around the country as well. This also makes it difficult to stop these people from committing more crime. It’s almost the same scenario as well, in regards to people being aware of what’s going on . I wanted to add veterans to your list as well. Search Kirsten Gilbert…
I’m not particularly “vindictive” but these are the kinds of cases where capital punishment / death penalty seem justified
In this case it would almost be letting her off the hook, rotting in prison seems a better punishment.
It’s never justified.
It won’t bring the babies back. It won’t stop her killing more babies any better than prison will. It won’t discourage other people from killing babies.
All it does is turn “murder is wrong” into “murder is wrong (unless I think you deserve it)”… and guess which of those most murderers believe?
A large number of people would disagree with you and they would be right to do so. Your opinion does not mean fact.
Nothing anyone does will bring those poor children back from the dead. That’s not the point of justice. The point of it is to fulfill what the people think qualifies as moral righteousness. It’s what the word actually means if you look it up in a dictionary, and for the majority of people, they believe the death penalty in cases like this is right and I for one can’t fault them.
The point of wanting her dead isn’t to bring the babies back. It’s to get rid of her, permanently, as they rightfully should. We know prison isn’t enough because others have cited the case of another baby murderer who is now up for parole and may be released, completely defeating the point of life sentences in jail.
murder is wrong (unless I think you deserve it)
And that’s how many philosophical schools of thought work, and they are quite honestly more valid than yours. Deontology is a terrible moral outlook and cases like this is why. We can’t have a moral and just society if we only judge morality by action and not by the circumstances of that action, who is affected, who commits it and why, etc.
What you’re asking for is actually unempathetic, cruel, and quite honestly really dangerous for the community.
The other case of a baby killer being eligible for parole is not the same as this one - she didn’t get a sentence till death, this one is.
That fact makes it all the worse.
Don’t hurt yourself explaining why.
I don’t have to. It’s obvious to anyone who actually cares about their community and not defending baby murderers for their political agendas.
Okay, so you can’t.
A large number of people would disagree with you and they would be right to do so. Your opinion does not mean fact.
What a hilariously self-absorbed comment. I never claimed my opinion was fact, but you tried to shame me for it anyway, while one sentence earlier acting like disagreeing with me is objectively correct.
Then you move on to presenting “eligible for parole” as “about to be released”, then stating your opinion about what a life sentence means as fact.
And as the cherry atop a dogshit comment, you throw a fistful of character flaws at me, none of which you’ve even attempted to justify, let alone succeeded in justifying.
Hop back in your clown car and fuck off.
Then you move on to presenting “eligible for parole” as “about to be released”, then stating your opinion about what a life sentence means as fact.
Baby murderers should never be eligible for parole under any circumstances and the fact that she is is the problem. It proves that imprisonment isn’t a guarantee she’ll be permanently separated from society, taking away any credibility toward the claim that it’s a satisfactory means to protect the community.
You just don’t want to see a baby murderer be punished. That’s what the real issue is. And you’re vile and morally repugnant for holding that view.
And as the cherry atop a dogshit comment, you throw a fistful of character flaws at me, none of which you’ve even attempted to justify, let alone succeeded in justifying.
Your viewpoint speaks for itself. You want me to hold you in high esteem? Stop trying to manipulate other people into thinking a baby murderer shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions or punished.
Baby murderers should never be eligible for parole under any circumstances and the fact that she is is the problem
Your opinion isn’t fact and it definitely isn’t law. But by all means, keep demeaning yourself by making it clear you don’t know the difference between “life sentence” and “life imprisonment”, even after someone links it to you.
You just don’t want to see a baby murderer be punished. That’s what the real issue is.
Nope, that’s the issue you just made up because apparently you’ve decided to make amphetamines and BPD your entire personality.
And you’re vile and morally repugnant for holding that view.
Having imaginary enemies isn’t any less childish than having imaginary friends. Nobody is going to believe the fictional character you’re openly building inside your head is actually me.
You want me to hold you in high esteem?
I couldn’t care less and I’ve got no idea what gave you that impression. I’m just going to assume it’s something you want me to feel, like all the other thoughts and opinions you’re projecting onto me in a way that’s clearly unbalanced.
Stop trying to manipulate other people into thinking a baby murderer shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions or punished.
It really upset you to have your little murder fantasy criticised didn’t it?
so real question what the hell would stop people from doing that??
She is not being rehabilitated and will never contribute to society in any way again. She is just costing people money for no reason. I am normally against the death penalty, but there are some cases, like this one, that make me think twice.
Why is contributing to society a prereq for living? People aren’t just a means to your ends. Even terrible ones.
I would argue that contributing to society can at minimum mean to be a person of good standing who participates without causing trouble. You could be as useless as a retiree since your 20s and still have contributed to society.
You are right. Contributing is not a requirement. I never said that it was, but I could have worded it better. It’s more the fact that she did completely unforgivable things and will obviously never be rehabbed. I’m torn on the idea, but people like her just seem like a waste of air.
Also, how does me implying that most people contribute to society make people a means to my ends? That part of your comment makes no sense. I don’t give a fuck what people do as long as they don’t mess with other people.
I don’t know if she can be rehabilitated, but one of my catch phrases is nobody is beyond redemption. I don’t know if it’s true, but I think it is an important belief. Practically, I’d rather keep a monster alive if it saves a few damaged people with some hope of reforming. I also think that cultivating a mindset of compassion does good things for me as far as how I view and treat other people.
I recognize there’s more nuance to your views, but statements like that are made all the same by people who don’t have very complicated views of things. I debated four peeps at once at work today that were in support of the death penalty, so I might be a bit biased due to that.
Idk if they even have the death penalty in the UK but in the US it’s significantly more expensive to put someone to death than it is to imprison them for life. Also about a third of death penalty cases end up overturned on appeal. Which is a pleasant way of saying we get it wrong a lot. I feel like that’s important to remember, because you’re not just deciding what to do in this specific case. You’re designing rules, not exceptions.
Capital punishment is prohibited in all circumstances in the UK, that includes times of war. It’s the same across almost all of Europe.
I totally agree for the US. I guess since I don’t live there I trust the UK judicial system to be more sorted, but that is probably naive.
Even though I am against it where I live, there are still those cases where there is undeniable proof and the crimes are heinous enough to invoke the primal side of the brain. The logical side of my brain knows that it is a bad idea to give power to the state to kill people.
I just can’t imagine how the family would feel in these kind of situations, and sometimes I think the justice given to them can be underwhelming. It’s complicated and I find it hard to make a concrete decision to say that the death penalty is absolutely never warranted.
US it’s significantly more expensive to put someone to death than it is to imprison them for life
because of the appeals process. maybe if you guys had an actual functioning justice system over there that didnt convict and sentence people to death because of their skin colour things would be different, but as it stands, THAT is why its more expensive.
No-one hear is arguing over the actual guilt of this lady. A death sentence isnt going to be accidently put on the wrong person. Will she appeal? probably. She can do the same for life in prison too. Its gonna cost a lot no matter what.
In the end she is a worthless, valueless monster the world would be better for if she wasnt consuming oxygen and resources, although pretty sure the death penalty isnt a thing in the UK anyway so the point is moot
What are you getting mad at him for? He’s agreeing with you
wasn’t getting mad at him mate, not sure what gave you that idea
maybe if you guys had an actual functioning justice system over there that didnt convict and sentence people to death because of their skin colour things would be different,
Sounds big mad to me
Life scentences are not the only reason I’m against death scentences
There’s also the off chance that someone is innocent, look at the innocent people jailed in america because of racism for example
This bitch deserves to rot in jail
When you use the death penalty on domeone who turns out to be found innocent you can’t get them back, their body is gone
Oh no! Your pennies!
I don’t have any money, personally. I said she was costing other people money, not me. Oh no! Your reading comprehension!
The death penalty is generally MORE expensive than prison for life, and if you don’t want it that way your giving the government monetary incentive to give out more death penalties. Which is obviously a HORRIBLE IDEA
I agree generally don’t really support the idea except in a few extreme cases where it is a solid case against a monster like this.
Strangely enough there is another baby murdering nurse in UK prison called Beverley Allitt who in 1993 killed children the same way. She’s been inside for 30 years and is actually eligible for parole since she hasn’t received a whole life order (i.e. to die in prison). Doesn’t mean she’ll get parole but expect an outcry if she ever does.
Lucy Letby-Gones would be a pretty sweet name.
I couldn’t understand it at first and British name-ified it to “let bee goans”
Before reading, I initially thought that maybe there was a reason like she could have mental health issues or that she could be just someone extremely incompetent at her job… But the more you read, the more this makes me want to vomit… It’s truly sickening!
Yeah, I was looking for a reason and found none. She is just sadistic.
She’s essentially a serial killer so I was looking into her past. Her parents were extremely over bearing, clingy and guilt trippers who were always smothering her, so I’m sure that contributed, but there’s gotta be more in her past that led her to this.
My parents are overbearing, clingy,and guilt trippers; I haven’t committed any murders yet.
“yet”
Exactly. They still can’t point to a person and say “This person will kill and this one won’t”. It seems to require a confluence of a number of things. A violent childhood, a socially stunted development, opportunity, a lack of empathy and a psychopathic mentality, an ability to compartmentalize (good family man at home, violent psycho outside of it). Even then it still isn’t a guarantee.
They do it because they choose to. Regardless of all other circumstances, the choice is always theirs.
But that’s not helpful, it might be true in some sense but then it is for everything - would you rather wallow in hate or try to understand and prevent similar things happening in the future?
Some people are just born wrong.
That phrase is a bit of a grey area based on context and can be both highly bigoted and offensive if used in the context of hate speech and / or discrimination
Oh my god
extremely over bearing, clingy and guilt trippers
Yah, I don’t any parents like that. looks around the room
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This is only true if you’re a firm believer in all nature, no nurture. That’s not where the scientific consensus is.
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I hope she spends the rest of her life being tortured by mentality I’ll DOJ guards.
14 life sentences isn’t “life in jail” in the UK, where murdering 270 people isn’t too much for “compassionate release.”
Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.
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