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Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Monday that Ukraine would have to make concessions over land that Russia had taken since 2014 as part of any agreement to end the war.
Mr. Rubio spoke as he was flying to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, for talks with senior Ukrainian officials, and 10 days after a contentious White House meeting between President Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelensky. The Trump administration halted military aid to Ukraine after the blowup, which centered on Mr. Trump’s refusal to include any security guarantees in a proposed deal involving Ukraine’s natural resources.
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I don’t see any peace deal unless there is security guarantees, it is not peace without guarantees.
This just embolden russia to rape Ukraine again for more lands. Marco Rubio is promoting a forever war.
Ukraine guarantees were taken away when the nukes were taken away.
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Why do you put stock in security guarantees now?
Ukraine had security “guarantees” when Russia invaded because they gave up their nukes that Western nation have not followed through on.
Security Guarantees means putting a NATO (or future equivalent) base at the border with soldiers from all over Europe, anything less than that is not guarantee of fuck all
Memorandum was not really a guarantee. NATO is more of a guarantee, nukes are more of a guarantee. Guarantee means NATO and/or Nukes.
Don’t need to believe it will work, Nukes and NATO has worked in the past to maintain peace along russia borders.
Dang. Anything for you guys to believe “this time!” will work.
NATO is not a guarantee anymore. Trump openly said that if specific European NATO countries will get attacked by Russia then there will be no response.
Yes, the ones who don’t meet the defense spending targets.
NATO is more than the US
NATO is pretty much dead now.
Security garantee is only worth as much as the nation giving it wants to honour it.
With this president is meaningless
Pretty sure they know better than to trust in the USA alone.
NATO membership is off the table, virtually no NATO country wants Ukraine to join.
Almost all of the NATO countries want Ukraine to join except for Russia’s lapdogs, ergo: Hungary, Slovakia, and the US.
Not really, even France & Germany are not so keen on Ukraine joining NATO now.
Now you’re just parroting talking points from the Kreml.
None of these statements actually back a Ukrainian bid to join NATO today.
Imagine a hypothetical scenario in which Mexico invades the United States, takes complete control over the state of New Mexico, and right in the middle of the conflict Great Britain says “the war needs to end”, drafts a ceasefire proposal that allows them take control of half of the country’s natural resources, and offers no security guarantees in the event that Mexico decides to attack again. If you refuse, the British will stop sending military aid to help you continue fighting. Oh, and Mexico gets to keep New Mexico.
Who in their right fucking mind thinks that this is a good deal? Any sensible person would rather continue fighting than give up their advantage for some flimsy ceasefire that won’t stand up to an invader hellbent on conquest.
Mexico would have all the right to take back “New mexico” you hypocritical idiot. The US stole it in the first place?
I’m sure if you go far enough back in time you could say that anyone in control of any particular swathe of land stole it from somebody else. Past wrongs committed are not a valid casus belli for modern wars of aggression or land grabs.
Regardless, your contrarianism doesn’t change the fact that Mexico surrendered that territory to us after the Mexican-American war. Legally, it belongs to the United States after the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which redrew the border based on the path of the Rio Grande.
Lol. Remember when a bunch of assholes voted 3rd party or didn’t vote because they were upset with Democrat’s handling of foreign affairs?
Clown country.
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Do you remember when the Biden Harris administration provided military, financial and diplomatic support for a genocide that lead to hundred of thousands of casualties? No wonder people didn’t want to vote for them.
both stein and rfk got around 800+k votes. though i suspect many of them R voters on the fence.
I’d do it again, rather get expropriated and deported from this micky mouse country than use what little political input I have to endorse a genocide
I think the point here is that, rather than endorse a genocide, you endorsed 2 genocides, and everything else that this administration does. I get that even one genocide is too much, but for that one you could be calling your representative and writing letters and doing whatever else you can to people who might care about those actions.
you could be calling your representative and writing letters and doing whatever else you can to people who might care about those actions.
my representatives are Democrats, they didn’t care
you endorsed 2 genocides
by lying about Bidens nonfunctioning brain Democrats created this situation. my vote had zero impact
What do you mean 2 genocides?
And that’s after Mexico violated a non-aggression pact and conquered Arizona.
That’s not a good example, the US does not rely on the UK to defend itself.
To that point, lets be real, even the united states doesnt really care about new mexico. Crimea in this argument has actual economic value.
Honestly any square foot of what russia has stolen from Ukraine has so much more economic value in comparison to new mexico, its hardly a realistic comparison.
I get what you are saying. But taos vs a warm water sea port is such an insane comparison. Its so much worse. Albuquerque? Let em have it. Santa fe? Please.
Maybe the US could give New Mexico to Russia in place of Crimea.
You’re looking too far into the details. The value of the territory is irrelevant for this hypothetical scenario. But I’ve been catching a lot of flak in the comments for it, so you know what? I’ll humor you, let’s change the formula.
Let’s say tomorrow, Russia announces that because they feel that they were cheated in 1867, they are refusing to recognize the sale of the Alaska territory to the United States and are reestablishing their control over the land as it’s sole owner. They send an invasion force and they capture the land in a swift blitzkrieg-style assault, the United States is caught completely by surprise.
Now, the United States fights, but we can’t really conduct ground operations without the support of Canada. They are our not just our neighbors, but our staunchest allies in this fight. However, a new Prime Minister is sworn in and they suddenly decide to take a massive shift in foreign policy, and try to broker a “peace deal” between Russia and the USA in which we agree to sign over the rights to future drilling operations to Canada in exchange for a ceasefire from Russia, but Russia gets to keep Alaska since they occupy it now anyway. Refusal means Canada pulls their support, forbids US soldiers from operating in Canadian waters or on Canadian soil, and conducting operations in the occupied Alaskan territory becomes virtually impossible. And, let’s not forget, no security agreements even if we do sign the agreement. So, if Russia decides to attack Hawaii or California next, nobody will be compelled to aid us.
Is that a better comparison? Alaska has massive economic and strategic value, so there’s a good reason for Russia to want it. They’ve been regretting ever selling it to us in the first place.
I mean im an adult that can contextualize the geopolitical reasononing behind why this is a bad deal without relying on heavy handed amerocentric hypotheticals.
To be clear, I never disagreed with your point. I just think that your comparison was dumb. And honestly, using alaska is even worse.
I dont know why you need a comparison in the first place. You already have the actual event to look at. Its in eastern europe. And they are in a war.
I dont know why you need a comparison in the first place.
Evidently, there are a LOT of people who don’t seem to understand just why the deal was so bad to begin with. Not you, of course, but some other comments in these Ukraine threads are either woefully uninformed or intentionally being obtuse about acknowledging facts.
And sorry about it being a series of Amerocentric examples, especially here in World News where it’s probably a bit taboo or tone deaf, but suffice to say it seems like the primary culprit behind much the willful ignorance are Americans with a narrow understanding of foreign affairs. I’m also just sticking to what I know so I don’t embarrass myself with my terrible geography.
Of course the United States cares about Mexico. New Mexico’s GDP is about 15 times higher than Crimea’s.
It’s a hypothetical scenario. I could think of some better examples if you really wanted, but that’s the most salient one I could think of off of the top of my head, because you know if the United States was attacked, we would expect the international community to fall behind our right to defend ourselves from any and all threats to our sovereignty.
I don’t see why things should be any different when considering Ukraine’s position.
The scenario just has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has the right to defend itself, nobody is saying otherwise.
Of course Ukraine has the right to defend itself, nobody is saying otherwise.
Article headline: “Ukraine Must Cede Territory in Any Peace Deal, Rubio Says”
Can’t exactly defend yourself when the people trying to broker peace on your behalf are forcing you to capitulate.
Nobody’s forcing Ukraine to sign a peace deal, they can keep fighting if they want.
De facto yes, but not in law they don’t - no
No, it must not. If someone breaks into your house, is he allowed to keep the loot?
FUCK YOU LITTLE MARCO
shithead.
Has he proved his citizenship?
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Does this shithead hold his cards face out when he plays poker?
Russia must be quite desperate to put that much pressure on them
I saw a mouse poop and its poop was saying that Ukraine should give territory and other things. I just ignored it and moved on my trail this morning. Can’t let poop dictate world order.
Remember that one time when the US got in the way of peace when Britain invaded? Why were we so stubborn again? It’s a mystery, but hopefully Ukraine doesn’t repeat our mistakes.
Oh fuck off, Rubio.
Go Rubio, go me boi.
Or not, would be nice to crush Ukraine entirely
they are ok with ceding Texas…
I don’t care, let the war end.
No
Well which is it?
7 day old account only interested in posting Ukraine doomerism. Obvious shill.
When can you enroll so that you can go to Ukraine and help them take back their territories if you care so much?
Funny, saw the parrots on /r/conservative saying the same thing last week. Which Fox/OAN/Newsmax fuckwad fed you guys this talking point?
I don’t care who gets those territories. I want the war to end.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Yes
So when will you enroll to help Ukraine take back the stolen territory?
I don’t care, let the war end.
You care or you don’t care? but care to let the war end ? What are you saying really?
Why are you arguing here instead of packing your bags? You’re free to go to Russia to make the war end, I don’t understand what’s stopping you.
Why is it always people like you that will never set foot on the frontline that are saying stuff like this?
If you really want the war to end, when can you enroll to stop russia from starting WW3 ?
Why are you not stopping russia, if you want the war to end?
Why are you promoting WW3 by asking Ukraine to surrender to russia just like Czechoslovakia surrendering to Nazi Germany which lead to WW2.
Why are you trying to drag your country into WW3 ?
Why are you not **guaranteeing ** peace (with Nukes or NATO membership) to prevent russia from expanding territories into Ukraine again?
why are you promoting a forever war ? Why are you not at the front line to stop russia from starting the war again and again ?
Why do you want OTHER people to die while you sit comfortably on your sofa telling Ukraine to surrender so that Putin can start the next war and WW3. ?? Why don’t you pack your bags? go to Russia to make peace and end the war, I don’t understand what’s stopping you?
Why do you say one thing but are free to do the opposite of what you say?
The solution is guaranteed sustainable peace. But you and your leader, Putin don’t want peace because it means compromise and it means that Zelensky, EU, NATO, Georgia, and Crimea also gets something (surprise, that’s how peace works!)
You’re free to go to Ukraine and help guarantee their protection and their territorial integrity, I don’t understand what’s stopping you. Why are you arguing here instead of packing your bags?
I’m free to do the opposite and I’m content that my country has made it clear that we will not send any troops to Ukraine
Appeasement will never end the war.
Why is it always people that will never set foot on the frontline that are saying stuff like this?
When can you enroll to go defend Ukraine and their pre-2014 borders?
Because we read and understand history? 🤔
Appeasement does not work.
When will you volunteer to enroll and help Ukraine take back their land on the battlefield then?
Ukraine is for Ukrainians, not Americans and definitely not Russians.
Because Ukraine is fully capable of defending themselves from Russia as long as all of its allies don’t bail on it.
Why do you want WW3? Russia is doing what Hitler did with Czechoslovakia.
Maybe if the yanks didn’t coup’ed the USSR we would have somebody to stand up against the fascists.
So basically they (putin and trump) want more than 2022 borders. And let me guess, they also want sanctions eased and elections to install a pro-putin government? Ukraine should not make any deals with the US. The US admin is the enemy within and the enemy of democracy.
The ceasefire is just a step to get to the sanctions and elections demands. And once they have a “reason” to force those things then russia is set to continue their forever-war.I hope Ukraine doesn’t cede anything at all.
That’s not realistic unfortunately
I think it’s more likely that Ukraine forfeits USA support and it’s probably for the best at this point. I hope CANZUK and Europe are willing and able to step up to pick up the slack.
European countries have already stated, in no uncertain terms, they required US involvement to deploy troops in Ukraine after a potential peace deal is reached.
I propose Ukraine cede Kentucky to the Russians. Or maybe one of the Carolinas, I don’t think the US really needs two of them.
As a resident of one of those Carolinas: agreed.
