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This whole tipping culture is reaaaallly hard trying to land here northern EU and I absolutely hate it, I refuse to tip anyone. Employers, pay your employees a living wage, it shouldnt be up to customers generosity. You cant? Then sounds like you should charge more of your customers, downsize your business until you can… or go out of business, since sounds like your profitable business is not actually profitable.
Of course there’s always the option of begging the government to bail you out, and then they do for some bizarre reason.
We live in a capitalist society for individuals and socialist society for corporations, which feels the wrong way round.
What really annoys me is the American servers coming at the patrons: “if you can’t afford to tip, you shouldn’t eat out!”
I would hate for that attitude to spread to the northern EU as well.
Cool, bet. Now we don’t eat out and they don’t have jobs.
Stopping this country from eating takeout is more of an undertaking than world peace
You don’t need a server for door dash. So instead of working in a restaurant they’re paying for their own cars to deliver to your house instead of your table.
Makes total sense.
“If it’s done out of greed, they let you do it”
Correction: pay back a small percentage of what you stole
very small
NZ parliament recently passed an act clarifying that wage theft is theft and that individuals may be criminally liable if they commit it: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/member/2023/0245/4.0/whole.html
What’s it like, having laws? Are they enforced?
We have a lot of nice labour protections (esp compared to the US, yikes) but ofc this means business goes around them (and current parties are discussing rolling them back to ‘support small businesses’ from having to do that).
It’s really hard to fire a worker under contract unless they straight up abandon their job or violate their contract. If youre bad at your job, but not dangerous, its so hard to fire you (and taking you off shifts, ie: constructive dismissal, is also prohibited) that you’ll basically be sticking around anyway.
But that means that employers just hire part-timers to work juuuuust under the requirements, or have them on the 90-day probationary period and oop sorry, I don’t think it’s a great fit. The results is that job stability is pretty good if you can actually fucking get one, but most younger Kiwis are stuck in casual work or move overseas.
You’ve adopted the American nightmare known as gig culture. So sorry, but it seems all we export now is dystopian bullshit. And bombs, obv.
and current parties are discussing rolling them back to ‘support small businesses’ from having to do that
Having not looked into the current parliament (I’m from Australia), let me guess, the conservatives?
More of less, though the division of ‘liberal vs conservative’, where almost all political and lifestyle ideals boil down into two camps (and leftists made invisible) is a very American one. I know that Aus is more ‘conservative’ than NZ is too, though surely not as much as the US.
Its more accurate to say its the neo-liberals. After Reagan and his Reaganomics, our cabinet followed through with our version, Rogernomics: selling off public services and resources to private for-profit holders.
To this day, Rogernomics and free-market liberalism (with focus on bonuses for hunting, fishing, and landlords) is the message of the National and ACT parties that are frequently in coalition.
You could call National ‘conservative’ I suppose, but they’re centre-right liberals and have more in common with US Democrats. Our hard-right party is NZ First (the nationalism is in the name), and the seats for NACT were so weak that they have a coalition with them this cycle.
Together, ‘NACT1’ is doing a lot of shit, but ofc the Prime Minister, National’s party leader, pushes the bills through ‘under urgency’ and then blames the leaders of the other parties for even proposing it, like his hands are clean.
And the other leaders - especially Winston - are proposing insane bills. Like, preventing illegal Mexican immigrants? In New Zealand? it’s an obvious ploy for Kiwis that eat American propaganda on Facebook, but it will work. Our public news has also started using terms like ‘wokeism’ and ‘DEI’. [siiiigh]
Thanks for the summary! I’m not using conservative in the US sense (which yeah, doesn’t really have left-wing parties with any power), but more as a catch all for parties in the anglosphere such as: Australia: Liberal/National, UK: The Tories and I suppose for NZ: the Nationals and ACT.
They’re practically aligned on most policies whenever I hear about each.
Just thought: there’s no way a left-leaning party would think of rolling back something as obvious as making wage theft a crime.
And I’m not surprised I guessed right haha
Yeah, agreed. There’s a general guide on whether votes are motivated by intrinsic fear (security) or extrinsic empathy (community). Fear-based voters are anxious for the future, of losing their job/money/lifestyle/status. They’re drawn to leaders that look strong and confident, that promise stability and security, and tell them they have answers. They’d rather have bad answers than no answers at all.
This is why ‘conservatives’ often believe similar things around the world, and are more common during times of hardship. Its why you cant explain logic to sway them (their fears are what need addressing). This is also why people used to get more conservative as they aged: they gained more assets to be afraid of losing. We’re seeing that change with millennials.
And besides, Americans make up the largest chunk of the English-speaking internet. So ofc their empire’s anxieties have global impact.
As US is proving though, laws only matter when enforced. Using their stats (because that’s what I have), wage theft is responsible for more economic loss than all other forms of theft combined, including larceny, petty theft, and embezzlement. But it’s rarely chased up - its too hard to prove, or the departments are kept perpetually understaffed, or the employees can’t afford court.
Wage theft is illegal in NZ too, but it’s not unheard of for smaller companies to stretch it. But yeah, my partner had a review recently, and when he mentioned having to work into his lunch breaks to meet daily targets on busy days, they took that very seriously and adjusted the workload elsewhere to compensate. It’s good.
They steal from everyone. My wife was stuck in a hotel with no room service about a year ago and didn’t feel up to walking for food. She found that she could get a free year doodash subscription through her Amazon Prime. She joined, got her food and promptly cancelled the subscription. We’ve just been through the joy of getting a refund for two months of doordash that hit our credit card.
I wonder if you could create an argument for this blatant disparity and how punishments are meted out to show how penalties for shoplifting and personal theft crimes are cruel and unusual. If stealing 17 million comes with less penalty than stealing 1700 then the penalties for 1700 are therefore unusual right?
This is very likely to be the future of AI law once AI is good enough.
Or the 17 million punishment is unusual…
Serial killers have to serve time added up from each individual murder. Corporate scumbags stealing from millions of people should be sentenced to prison for millions of years.
I suppose step 1 in that line of thinking is ending prison slavery and the systemic violence prisoners and guards inflict on the incarcerated.
Not that we can’t do two things at once…
I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise
$17m sounds low.
They only have to go up to minimum wage.
Lawyers are gonna get a huge chunk of that too. An already too low number gets diluted until it’s a joke. I’d be surprised if any individual driver gets more than$100. Fucking joke.
I’d like to point out these people would be out of business tomorrow if we quit giving them our business.
Parasites
Deny them engagement and profit… Food delivery is peak luxury service but yet the normie keeps wasting money on it while crying about being poor lol
or, when they start using drones, start stealing the drones. and also maybe the food.
Like many convenience services, it’s important that it exists because some people genuinely can’t walk or can’t walk all the time, can’t chop their own fruit and veg, etc. Or genuinely don’t have enough time in the day to cook or pick something up. But people will still use these things for simple luxury reasons.
Those are fringe use cases. Majority of it is conspicuous consumption.
Also, grocery stores sell prepared foods and there other options for these people. Why are they choosing most expensive one?
that’s really not the problem here, and do you believe the grocery monopolies wouldn’t do this same shit? that they don’t already?
I am suggesting viable substitution options which is the grocery store prepped food which also does delivery
in the same way taco bell is a substitute for mcdonalds.
this is only a substitute if you assume the problem is poor people having treats, and not employees being fucked out of their pay. if you assume the problem is delivery staff being fucked out of their pay, the problem, and in many cases exact companies/staff, are the same.
I am not even getting into how shiti these parasite treat the workers.
Just merely notting that getting slop delivered by doordash is the most expensive option on the market, everyone is bitching about being poor then proceeda to defend using this trash service
Which is also terriable for the worker on top of that
this isn’t about bitching about being poor, and being worn down to nothing and badgered and bullied by advertising until your will to resist wears out isn’t something you should blame the victim for. if you want to bitch at people about consuming beyond their means, yell at an ad-man.
I mean, most everyone will be disabled at some point in their life. They’re also useful for the average person when they’re sick and don’t have anyone to take care of them. I know I’ve struggled to feed myself when I had the flu or covid.
But even if they are indeed fringe use cases, those services do need to exist for those cases. And restricting them isn’t very helpful either way because applying for any sorts of benefits is often difficult and/or degrading for many disabled people. BUT: we should still encourage those who CAN avoid this stuff to do so, since they are indeed damaging to worker’s rights and the environment.
Nobody suggested Amy restrictions
Me thesis is that vast majority of the users of these services are broke people who have no business using them but the conversation always devolves into some fringe cases needing them…
It is a free market to waste your money as you see please but in current economic context, it is clowny to be whining about being broke and then using thee services.
Who’s down voting this 😂 Big food delivery bots? Or are there really that many people who hate hearing the truth?
Got a few people big mad about it too
Clearly an unpopular opinion lol
Anecdotally, the people I know who order door dash multiple times a week are also people who frequently complain about money
Also I believe I found the related source: https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2025/attorney-general-james-secures-1675-million-doordash-cheating-delivery-workers
I didn’t see anything on a quick read about how they came up with these numbers, or if there are any more serious penalties. Seems like a pretty light penalty.
Wage theft is bigger than all other theft, but far fewer people are dragged onto the sidewalk and strangled to death for it. Maybe that should change.
“When the truth walks away, everybody stays 'cuz the truth about the world is that crime does pay. So if you walk away, who is gonna stay? 'Cuz I like to think the world is a better place.”
Underrated Offspring jam! I feel like Offspring get written off as pop-punk but are generally underrated as political artists.
Listening to that album nowadays is hair-raising. It’s almost as though people have been screaming in Americans faces for decades about what’s becoming impossible to ignore, I know I was singing these lyrics since 1999:
"Well, I’d like to tell you all about my dream
It’s a place where strip malls abound
And diversion’s mere moments away
Where culture’s defined by the ones least refined
And you’ll be left behind if you don’t fit in
It’s all distorted in Americana my way
Well, fuck you
Whoa, whoa, whoa, well, my dream has come true
Whoa, whoa, whoa, my vision has come true
Now give me my cable, fast food
Four-by’s, tat’s right away
I want it right now 'cause
My ge-generation don’t like to wait
My future’s determined by thieves, thugs and vermin
It’s quite an excursion but it’s okay
Everything’s backwards in Americana my way
Well, fuck you
Whoa, whoa, whoa, well, my dream has come true
Whoa, whoa, whoa, my vision has come true
Yeah, it’s all coming true
I’m a product of my environment
So don’t blame me, I just work here
But I wanna fuck it up
My rights are denied by those least qualified
Trading profit for pride but it’s, it’s okay
Everything’s backwards in Americana my way
Well, fuck you
Whoa, whoa, whoa, my nightmare has come true
Whoa, whoa, whoa, my nightmare has come true
Yeah, it’s all coming true
Yeah, it’s all coming true"
To add to your punk rock reference :)
The power is in the hands of the few
There are too many homeless too many starving
They don’t care they don’t listen
Their profit is more important than our pain
Than our oppression than our human rights
Sure take from the rich and give to the poor
But when will the greed stop when will the human rights
Be of some importance
They can have their money and their system
We can’t have freedom with restrictions
We can’t have freedom and equity with an entire
System based on competitionDefiance - Hands of the Few, 1995. This shit ain’t new.
Come now, you rich people, weep and wail for the miseries that are coming to you. Your riches have rotted, and your clothes are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you, and it will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure during the last days. Listen! The wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have nourished your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the righteous one, who does not resist you.
James 5:1-6
Dayum! New favorite bible passage for being obnoxious towards hypocrites with just dropped!
And by “just” I mean “a thousand years ago”, or whenever that part of their book was written 🤷
I’m sure this global company only did it in NY for some reason though, better not look into this globally. Wouldn’t want to do that now!
This is why, regardless of who delivers food the few times I order out, I always tip in cash (don’t have to claim it, company can’t steal it.)
US workers do have to claim tips though. Whether they do or not, and how enforceable that is, is a different story.
Canada here, I believe ours do as well, but easier to hide when in cash and company can’t steal it. I had heard of this when DD et. al. was relatively new and decided then cash was the way. It is up to the employee to do or not do
Despite living in a country where cash is practically non-existent (Netherlands), this is my reason for keeping a cash-jar.
Maybe only NY had the foresight to make this practice illegal?
Few things.
- Corporations are not people. Laws need to change and loopholes need to be closed.
- The rich need to pay their way. Laws need to change and loopholes need to be closed.
Lmao that’s sickening
If corporations are people then they can be put to death
The question is how are we gonna go about that.
We start by closing loopholes and making the rich pay their way.
And if they don’t? Guillotines, baby!
I’m all for that, truly.
How do we start?
We’ve been talking about this online for as long as I remember, and my beard is starting to get grey hairs. To be honest, it’s been pumping up recently, but it’s still just unorganised discontent instead of an actual organised effort to do something. And those do exist, yeah, but they don’t rival the power of the large companies.
So I’m starting to lose my optimism.
Organizing is hard and I don’t know how to do it, either. It doesn’t help that a lot of media is owned by conservatives, and the police/gov’t historically hasn’t hesitated to murder organizers (see: fred hampon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton )
I think it’s easier for conservatives because they just attract morons and their aims aren’t creating a unified entity to do something, rather it’s to benefit personally.
It’s way harder to create a peaceful global cooperative than it is to sow chaos and steal things.
Also i think it’s easier when you have the backing of the wealthy. i think the “tea party” had rich backers, for example, while ‘occupy wall street’ never had the same financial support.
I think with the internet, we could actually change this.
I think that if there was a unified community, a properly large one, one could use the economic power derived from the consumers to target specific things.
Wouldn’t need strikes. You’d just need an app to tell you what things not to buy for a week and what are the alternatives so you can still get your addiction on, whatever it may be (coffee, alcohol, dresses, chocolate, a specific type of heroin, who cares).
Like a global union, with the power that a full strike gives you, but without having to actually even strike.
🐷✂🗑 I had to get creative, my keyboard doesn’t have an guillotine emoji
Pig-scissors-thrash is kinda clear tbh.
Luigi started. Who will take up the mantle?
All I can tell you is it has to get a lot worse before it gets better. I don’t see change coming without bloodshed because those in power and their enablers don’t want either of those things to happen.
The funny thing is, when I first started working retail, we were encouraged to just say, “Oh, did you forget to complete your purchase?” We weren’t allowed to go straight to accusing someone of stealing. That gave them the opportunity to either pay for the items or leave them behind.
Good for them. And you’re not employees. It’s gig work. If you’re living off dashing you’re the loser.
You’re a fucking idiot.
“a company is literally stealing from you and breaking the law? You are a sucker”
I really really hope hope you get to sit on the other side of the fence, just so you can reconsider.
Hello bootlicker, you don’t get any prizes for sucking the parasite corporations dick. Did you know that?
