Serious answers only. For over a year I was told that trump “doesn’t have anything to do with that”.
I honestly need to know from an actual Republican who believed trumps words and is now witnessing p2025 almost hit 50% completion with the department of education getting dismantled.
And with that; how do these people feel that public schools, daycare centers and tech schools all going to cost 3-6x as much as it does now for tuition?
The person i was talking to about it said that he doesn’t want Project 2025 put in place, but also voted Trump and (as you said) said Trump “doesn’t have anything to do with that”.
When I went to talk to them again after the election, he had either deleted his account or blocked me after I ask about Trump appointing many involved with Project 2025.
i am guessing this would the case on an average. thanks though
You were lied to, unfortunately. Project 2025 was always their plan, and as you’re seeing now, they’re going full steam ahead with it. The best thing you can do now is learn from this mistake. Don’t trust what politicians tell you they want, or tell you they’re doing; see for yourself what they’re actually doing.
By the way, you’re going to get responses from like 95% leftists since it’s lemmy. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong though.
What kind of a moron believes anything a politician says, especially a openly fascist cunt
Like 80% of the US apparently
What? Bro I voted for Harris lmao. I’m also a wannabe Canadian, don’t like this country.
The period is tripping everyone up lmao
I honestly need to know. From an actual Republican who believed trumps words
Fair lol. I try to type how I would speak so it’s meant to be a pause
I don’t know anything about it. What is it? I guess it’s got some good stuff in. But I wouldn’t endorse it. Whatever it is.
some good stuff
If you want to live in medieval time with your wife/servant, sure.
Religious conservatives love project 2025. Most Republicans are Religious, so they love it.
Religious conservatives love project 2025. Most Republicans are
Religiousbrainwashed Christofascists, so they love it.I approve of this edit
I still don’t see them as Trump’s actual plan.
I’m like one of three conservatives here, do you really expect a response?
i was hoping for a response yes. and really hoping for an actual intellectual as well.
so what makes you think it isn’t trumps plan? even though you can follow the progress online of p2025 and trump is checking off each objective.
what do you see p2025 as? and do you think it will make america “awesome again”
so what makes you think it isn’t trumps plan?
They’re an idiot, duh
Their name is eerily close to a reference to a famously horrible and Nazi-infested (like, actually) instance, especially given their previously discussed viewpoint, so they’re probably also a Nazi openly lying about their beliefs
Reddthat isn’t a Nazi instance, wtf.
Never claimed it was, work on your reading comprehension
Maybe I didn’t understand what you meant. Can you explain the connection you see between Nazis and the instance name?
Exploding heads was (I think it’s gone for good now) an extreme Nazi instance full of people trying their damndest to be the worst people they could be
The guys name is Kaboom and regularly posts the same kind of talking points they did, I don’t think it’s a coincidence, personally
The fuck are you talking about?
I see Trump’s plan as Trump’s plan. P25 holds some similarities, some things are just that obvious, like illegal immigrants should be deported, but it’s not Trump’s plan. P2025 is it’s own thing, some wishlist created by some think tank that got picked up by the news because it’s so stereotypical.
I think that Trump’s plan is an attempt to put America back on the right track economically.
Protective tariffs for instance, are a pretty standard way of protecting domestic industry. It’s expensive to comply with OSHA and labor laws, it’s a lot cheaper to make stuff in China and ship it over here. Tariffs make it so that it’s no longer cheaper. Bernie Sanders agrees, even if can’t directly agree with Trump. https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trump-tariffs/
Does p25 have anything on tariffs? No, they don’t.
P25 does have stuff on things like racial discrimination, which no politician in their right mind would support.
P25 literally does have stuff on tariffs and it’s exactly what is happening right now.
It starts on page 765. https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf Like literally the entire section from page 765-783 are just about tariffs and how high to increase them.
And an article discussing it https://seekingalpha.com/article/4769053-what-project-2025-tells-us-about-what-will-happen-tariffs-april-2
Tbh, I only ever read the cliff notes. I never read the hundreds of pages, I had better things to do with my time.
I also haven’t read the hundreds of pages, but it was a simple search away (either a search engine or literally just typing ‘tariff’ into the PDF). You said something that wasn’t true and didn’t bother to check if it was accurate before hand, and it was kind of the base “fact” of your entire post.
I do appreciate that you’re willing to come in here and actually discuss your viewpoint, which is why I tried to react quite neutrally. I would appreciate continuing the conversation because I do wonder if that revelation has changed your view that trump has no ties to P25.
Republicans already passed the removal of DEIA in the workforce. Idk how you feel about that but that can be seen as racial discrimination which a lot of Republicans have shown don’t give a shit about. A lot are pro white power, women are baby makers. i also can’t see how someone would think p2025 or “trumps plan” as a good thing. I see no benefits to destroying government agencies with no though or plan before hand. How many times has he fired a department only for him to go “woops . We actually needed those people” and then rehire them? 3?.. 4?. Like what’s the point? A lot of Republicans say “we are finding the fraud, so much winning”. How do you feel saying that or hearing it knowing that trump is convicted of 34 felonies? Was on tape gloating how he walked on in naked 15 year old girls and is an actual fraud to the country?
How do you feel about our administration literally editing the Internet and leaves of history to remove anyone of color or nationality other than white?
How do you feel about doge finding “wasted tax payer money” but trump plays golf with tax payer money? I’m sorry I just don’t understand and no one has ever answered these questions they just deflect. Like you can’t deny trump is a fucking scum bag monster pedophile
Tariffs are one way to protect domestic industry.
They are completely useless when that industry does not exist already. When an industry doesn’t exist and you want to build it, you need subsidies, not tariffs.
Do you believe the US has sufficient industry to protect? Or that we should instead be focused on growing more?
Yes I do. We have chip fabs, car factories, steel mills, all sorts of things. But they’ve been hurt by the likes of China for a very long time.
Did you know Gary Indiana used to have a Steel Mill? And it was when it closed that Gary went to shit?
And we can do both. We already are subsidizing lots of things.
We are not subsidizing recreating those factories that are gone. Which is a shame.
What you’re saying makes sense if we were putting tariffs an those specific industries that we have factories for, but not other industries. Are we doing that?
Thanks for being honest. What is Trumps actual plan?
Trump’s plan is an attempt at putting America’s economy back on track. Protective tariffs, less “aid” to foreign nations, deporting illegal immigrants, not acting like the world’s police when it’s Europe that will be affected most, that sort of thing.
First of all, the economy was doing fine under Biden.
How is banning the words “female”, “women” and “bias” in research papers getting the economy back on track?
How is taking away the passports of trans people and changing their gender getting the economy back on track?
Was it really do well, or was it doing well for the rich? Because all I ever heard on Lemmy was that they were broke and oppressed by the system.
And the whole dei shit was a badly worded EO compounded by bad actors upset with the EO. You should actually read the EO if you’re curious, it’s not long. He did not ban any of those words.
How is that something to mention? It sounds so minor, I doubt he knew of it. And getting advice from a variety of people is a good thing and probably helped. Why are you against it?
They are not taking away passports. If you read the damn article, one transman had trouble renewing his, and the bureaucracy was taking it’s time figuring it out. I ran into the same damn thing when I renewed mine two years ago, and I’m cis. Not every single issue is because of your identity. Sometimes shit happens.
How do you rectify the idea of not being world police with:
"I have signed a declaration to use emergency authorities to expedite the delivery of approximately $4 billion in military assistance to Israel. "?
Or is that somehow different?
I think the reasoning is very simple: Israel is extremely important in the Bible. Many conservatives like the Bible so supporting it seems good to them. Especially if it’s against Islam which is associated with immigrants and terror.
I’ve been trying to crack this and it seems impossible. It’s a black box. You can dismantle every policy by looking at it from a certain standpoint and trying to apply your subjective logic to it. But when Zionist Israel is on the table, all logic goes out the window.
We can take the presidents one by one:
Obama - change - doesn’t change anything about relations and policies with Israel
Biden - staunch defender of Israel. Doesn’t matter what they do, he condemns anything and everything bad, but Israel commits genocide and he doesn’t even acknowledge it.
Harris - polls showed that she could have gained massive voter support, had she expressed anything in favour of Palestine and acknowledge genocide, but she decided to lose instead for some reason. Proof of what would win her the election wasn’t enough. She could have lost the Zionist campaign funding and still come out ahead.
Trump - you’d assume he doesn’t care about money because he already has it, doesn’t care about power because he’s literally the president of the most powerful nation. He’s immune to prosecution, so Israel can’t even have something as stupid on him as being a serial child rapist, he’d shrug it off. That stupid Gaza beach resort video. Still doesn’t make sense from fiscal standpoint. He also breaks tradition and protocol on everything.
There could be better allies in the region, and there have been. But it has to be Israel for some reason, in its current apartheid and genocidal state. My only explanation would be that the Zionist government of Israel and the US government are one and the same on some level, somehow, somewhere.
Because Israel is literally the only liberal country in the middle east, relatively speaking. If they can expand their influence, less women will be oppressed, less gay people will get thrown off buildings, and Jewish people won’t be massacred until there’s none left in the middle east.
And why are siding with Hamas and Hezbollah? Do you hate LGBT people? Do you just hate women? Do you just want to see the aggressors win?
I bet you didn’t even know that they’ve been attacking this entire time. Just yesterday, Hamas fired 3 rockets in an attempt to kill more civilians. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2dr7jd7mno Or maybe you do know and you like killing civilians?
So you’re saying it’s ok if we’re policing the world as long as it’s for liberal countries?
To some extent. We need a good ally in the middle east. I’d say that Germany should be the one footing the bill, but they’re not a particularly reliable ally when it comes to military funding.
Israel is a pretty unique case, and they’re surrounded by those who have done harm and wish to do more harm to us. It’s not a great position, but it’s the one they’re in.
Ok. So we fund countries that are battling other countries that have done us harm. Proxy fights, if you will. So Israel and Ukraine. And cut the rest of the funding for wars.
That seems reasonable. Is that what we’re doing?
Contributions to global organisations is what is known as “soft power” - for example, the only time NATO article 5 has been invoked is by the USA after 9/11
And guess what - every other country stood up and came to America’s defence. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a pretty good deal to spend a few million for the billions you get back in cooperative agreements with the rest of the world.
So tell me, how does funding a musical in Ireland help with that?
Honestly, if we’re taking the stance of "lets run the government like a business*,
It’s just good marketing.
It makes people in other countries that little bit more likely to buy something made in the USA, or to visit as tourists or to volunteer to help during a natural disaster.
The example you’re referring to isn’t even in the millions - it was around $70K! Ireland spent $163 Billion on Amercian services because of a good, long standing relationship between the two countries.
By making America seem like a good neighbor. Would you lend a hand to someone who doesn’t treat you decently?
Treaties, military aid, investment, all of them requires the feeling that things will turn out alright if you get involved. A dickhead like Trump makes it clear that he would shank you and fuck your mother, just because he feels likes it. To say the least, no reasonable or good person would want to associate with a Trumpian nation.
Nations within and without, are built on relationships.
They don’t think Trump and Musk are doing anything wrong. When quizzed they’ll ask you to name anything they’ve done wrong.
Everything Trump and Musk are doing is guised in Libertarian and Conservative values.So nothing wrong has been done on their eyes.
If you go places like r/JordanPeterson (to ask) and r/Conservative to observe the media landscape - you’ll see that “The Woke” are wrong and have turned violent against Tesla. You’ll see Trump and Musk are thought of as doing great things.
That’s how they think. They’re not in the same media landscape as everyone else is.
I think it’s so funny that Republicans have found this magical loophole to excuse just about any action by just saying it’s woke. The second anything is called woke, it instantly must be destroyed and there’s no disputing it because it is just simply too woke. Shit at this point I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Trump said that zelensky and Ukraine has gone woke and they will send military aid to Russia to stop them
This administration is woke …
Fuck, that didn’t work.
That’s how they think. They’re not in the same media landscape as everyone else is.
This is literally the cause of all our issues. Fucking propagandists creating an alternate “reality” for Magoos to exist within where they are the good guys fighting the evil evil communist far left scum.
I can blame a Magoo for being so susceptible to hate filled ppropaganda, but I really REALLY fucking despise the propagandists with every fiber of my being. If there were ever a group of people that deserved a firing squad it would be those like Sean Hannity who know exactly what they’re doing…
But they also think you’re in an alternative reality because of “leftist reactionaries” over blowing things in the media. Some of them would probably go as far to say that “We need anti-propaganda laws against the left wing media”…
…the problem for the left is, the right wing “alternative facts, alternative media landscape” is unfortunately MORE REAL in a legal sense because they own SCOTUS, and SCOTUS want to institute Unitary Executive theory… Which is what they’re doing.
It’s a very clean sounding bunch of words for a kind of fascism.
Tell them research into women’s medical conditions (like endometrial cancer) is no longer allowed. I’d love to know how they’d spin that one as positive.
The problem is their spin isn’t designed to be positive or have mass appeal. It’s designed to create fervent followers who are desperate for something different and a sense they’re winning.
In your example I believe the response for them would be something along the lines of “Good, women shouldn’t be getting special treatment anyways - END DEI !!!”
Even though this means men are getting special treatment. Because research into prostrate cancer, for example, hasn’t been banned.
Yeah it’s crazy. What’s that line: To the privileged any attempt at equality is going to look like a loss of privilege.
Something like that. I’m pretty sure they just want to harm come to groups they’re prejudiced against. Even more insulting is I’m pretty sure the Trump administration has a lot of drink and drug related parties, Trump spent his youth in nightclubs, Musk is addicted to ketamine and Grimes mentioned them tripping on acod together.
So it’s debauchery at the top, austerity for everyone else. It’s a real let them eat cake they’re doing. Not serious or good people at all. Very little in the way of mprals or ethics, it’s all about power, privilege, politics, and personal gain.
When quizzed they’ll ask you to name anything they’ve done wrong.
Why is this a thing? I’ve seen that so many times. “Oh yeah, well name Trump’s indictments” as if they got a trump card.
And, well… uhh there’s a summary right here. What do they expect? Secret knowledge? As if pretending nobody knows that they are gives them leverage? I don’t understand.
They’ll say a mix of “He’s clearly not guilty because nothing stuck! Teflon Don!” and “You shouldn’t go after politicians personal lives” and “Sucks for you he’s President now! You’re just a sore loser.”
…that might make you mad, which they enjoy.
I asked my MAGA coworker whether he thought Trump broke the law in the hush money case, and his response was “she should have kept her trap shut”.
Oh no, the lying liar who is best known for lying about literally everything lied and gullible people believed it (or conveniently ignored it, or didn’t care or thought it was just peachy because they thought it wouldn’t apply to them and were perfectly fine with it applying to other people)? Who could possibly have predicted that? Oh wait, I think literally every left wing person in the US predicted that.
Project 2025 is the most double talky I’ve ever seen Donald Trump. “Project 2025? Nope, never seen it, never heard of anything in it, but it’s got some great ideas. I’m not going to follow it and I don’t have anything to do with it but I hear it has some really good ideas, but I won’t be adhering to them.”
Reminds me of the “Unite The Right” rally where he wouldn’t really condemn anyone: “Those folks are really nasty, but also there’s a lot of good folks.”
I think this is part of his “charm”. He double talks, so if you are a fan you perk up on the positives and let your eyes glass over during the bad parts.
this was actually a key part of Hitler’s strategy. early on in the Nazi meetings they would try to pin down and give an exact agenda and set of policies.
he would yell at everyone that they’re missing the point. it’s more about the vibe than the logic. being vague and ambiguous keeps your options open.
“It is not truth that matters, but victory.” Adolph
By refusing precise definitions, you are able to retroactively decide what the ideology “always meant”. so when it’s convenient to hate against health insurance CEOs you are “against the swamp”. when it’s convenient to dismantle the government you are “against the swamp”
it can mean whatever you want it to. similar with the “enemies of the state”
nazis would use the word marxists or “degenerates” very loosely. makes it very easy to shift blame to a specific target or another when necessary
berlin’s degeneracy is because of gays, somewhere else it may be gypsies, another it’s the jews, etc.
today we see phrases like “radical leftists” “cultural marxists” “woke ideology” etc
a federal judge blocked some of Trump’s orders (Trump ignored it of course) and what does he call him? a radical left judge. something that couldn’t be further from the truth- radical left would imply some type of communist or socialist. but it doesn’t really matter because the term is vague enough it can work
Ask the guy who had his wife deported and is still supporting Trump.
I’d prefer to never have to interact with someone that hateful and stupid.
Edit: apparently the part in OP starting “From a Republican…” is not meant to imply that OP is a Republican. As it lacked a main verb, I assumed it was ultimately meant as a relative clause and misassigned it to “I”. Leaving this comment anyway but it doesn’t apply to OP.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this post, and I appreciate you noticing this trend.
But I’ve got to be honest: the writing was on the wall the whole time. Being in the Republican bubble doesn’t really change the fact that you only get here from a lack of critical thinking and a general susceptibility to propaganda. These are things that many people spend time and resources getting educated about. It’s hard to have sympathy when the whole country is now suffering because so many were so sure they knew better.
If I sound angry, I am. I do hope you take it constructively, but you also need to understand: most of the damage has already been done. It doesn’t really matter how you feel from here on out, because the deed (from voters) is done.
I voted for Harris lol, and that was because I thought she was the lesser of the two evils overall. I wish Michelle Obama ran for office.
Then how was it that you “believed Trump’s words”?
Reread the post, or remove the period
What period?
Edit: nm, got it. Period in OP.
I’m really digging the irony of this thread…
What?
You said you thought she was the lesser of two evils. I’m not sure how that is believing Trump’s words, as you said in the original post.
He was not believing Trump’s words, you’re misinterpreting his post
Ah, got it. Thanks.
I took the sentence “From a Republican…” as OP saying they were a Republican who had changed their view (since it isn’t really a full sentence… alas).
Wishful thinking, I guess.
Do you think that Project 2025 isn’t what a bunch of conservatives want? It didn’t just come from one person. A bunch of people wanted to vote for this.
Serious answers only.
The worlds too dark to take anything too seriously right now.
I just meant like no “Kamala Harris genocide derrererre” comments or someone changing the subject because libs
You’re not gonna get an answer here. Try asking on a random Instagram APNews thread. Most of the answers you’ll get are from bots, but Republicans are taught to parrot whatever they say, so it’s basically the same thing
You’re not gonna get an answer here.
*scrolls up. scrolls back down*
I see a whole bunch of answers?
I meant from a Republican. They don’t use Lemmy
I don’t know any republicans personally but I would not be surprised if, given a choice between admitting fault and feeling bad, or literally any other option including lying or violence, they won’t admit fault. If they weren’t emotionally stunted, they wouldn’t be conservatives.
I have literally stopped speaking to my parents over this and have put the ball in their court, telling them that all they need to do is re-evaluate their position about this one fucking guy and admit they were wrong.
And I guess they’re fine with just not speaking to their son instead.
This is why blaming conservatives or getting them to admit fault doesn’t work. It only makes them become more defensive and entrenched.
A better approach is to appeal to their victim complex. IE: Instead of “Trump is ruining this country and its your fault for voting for him!” try “Dude, Trump is screwing us! This isn’t the great America we were promised!” or some variation of that. Gotta use different tactics.
Yeah, you have to make them see you as a member of a shared in-group. That’s the most important thing to them (and many people, honestly. we’re all susceptible to tribalism and such)
I’m not sure it’s possible to blame Trump rather than his voters when he literally promised to make most of these changes. It might be more effective to say that Trump was misled by Musk.
Humans in general are very hesitant to admit that they were wrong. Cult members doubly so.
It’s so unfortunate too, because so many of our society’s current ills can literally be boiled down to “so and so refused to admit they were wrong”
Yeah I realized admitting fault is kind of a power move. You can just be like “oh! I was wrong. Woops” and what might have been a like hour long argument about some unimportant minutia instead just wraps up. Nothing bad happens.
they’re not going to “snap out of it”. what he does for them isn’t the point. he could personally fire each and every Republican and fuck every one of their wives but as long as he’s a big tough guy triggering the libz, it’s all fine. this is just 21st century politics now.
Dang. At least in Black Mirror 21st century politics got to be shadow-ruled by an animated blue dog puppet, which took a modicum of the edge off the oppression.
I remember finding that episode annoying when it first came out.
I watched it again after 2016, and boy did I view it differently.
The older ones are hearing stories of social security being canceled on people like them and they are getting nervous. My vehement Trump supporting co-workers are having trouble backing things he does. The cracks are small and slow but the confidence in their statements of support are getting weaker. I think some support is eroding, but it’s slow. It’s really going to have to affect them more directly for it to fully erode sadly. Though I think it will, the damage the right will inflict in the mean time will change this country for generations.
Wait till they officially start calling for a constitutional amendments and they suddenly start losing some of their own rights. But by then who knows what it’s gonna look like.
I have one word:
Eggs.
“Shut up about eggs”
- Trump’s retweet
Well historically, that doesn’t really matter all that much. They just stop talking about it openly and continue to quietly support it and vote for it.
You can tell it’s hitting, every repub that was loud af about trump this trump that good idea this good idea that. The only thing I’ve heard lately is the CRT stuff that they just don’t understand because they’re unable to see anything from anyone else’s perspective and one of their buddies kids asked their parents about the racist comments they were making and if they were racist.
Trump knows that his supporters are going to turn on him eventually, which is why he’s working so hard to set up an infrastructure that can crush opposition without due process. He’s also testing the waters about ignoring court orders.
If the supreme court lets him use the AEA then that means the president can use war-time statutes without Congress needing to declare a war, which means that he’ll be able to use a different statute to deploy the military on US territory. At that point, US democracy is officially over.
