Serious answers only. For over a year I was told that trump “doesn’t have anything to do with that”.
I honestly need to know from an actual Republican who believed trumps words and is now witnessing p2025 almost hit 50% completion with the department of education getting dismantled.
And with that; how do these people feel that public schools, daycare centers and tech schools all going to cost 3-6x as much as it does now for tuition?
Like it’s their third rail of blow and their homie just picked up another ounce.
However they’re told to feel
Project 2025 is the most double talky I’ve ever seen Donald Trump. “Project 2025? Nope, never seen it, never heard of anything in it, but it’s got some great ideas. I’m not going to follow it and I don’t have anything to do with it but I hear it has some really good ideas, but I won’t be adhering to them.”
Reminds me of the “Unite The Right” rally where he wouldn’t really condemn anyone: “Those folks are really nasty, but also there’s a lot of good folks.”
I think this is part of his “charm”. He double talks, so if you are a fan you perk up on the positives and let your eyes glass over during the bad parts.
this was actually a key part of Hitler’s strategy. early on in the Nazi meetings they would try to pin down and give an exact agenda and set of policies.
he would yell at everyone that they’re missing the point. it’s more about the vibe than the logic. being vague and ambiguous keeps your options open.
“It is not truth that matters, but victory.” Adolph
By refusing precise definitions, you are able to retroactively decide what the ideology “always meant”. so when it’s convenient to hate against health insurance CEOs you are “against the swamp”. when it’s convenient to dismantle the government you are “against the swamp”
it can mean whatever you want it to. similar with the “enemies of the state”
nazis would use the word marxists or “degenerates” very loosely. makes it very easy to shift blame to a specific target or another when necessary
berlin’s degeneracy is because of gays, somewhere else it may be gypsies, another it’s the jews, etc.
today we see phrases like “radical leftists” “cultural marxists” “woke ideology” etc
a federal judge blocked some of Trump’s orders (Trump ignored it of course) and what does he call him? a radical left judge. something that couldn’t be further from the truth- radical left would imply some type of communist or socialist. but it doesn’t really matter because the term is vague enough it can work
Oh no, the lying liar who is best known for lying about literally everything lied and gullible people believed it (or conveniently ignored it, or didn’t care or thought it was just peachy because they thought it wouldn’t apply to them and were perfectly fine with it applying to other people)? Who could possibly have predicted that? Oh wait, I think literally every left wing person in the US predicted that.
YouGov has good data
I don’t see any drastic changes on Trump’s approval, but there’s unfavorablity across the board otherwise
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Donald_Trump
This is a cool website. Thank you.
According to my neighbors on neighborhood.com, it’s fake news. Seriously. They simply don’t believe Trump has anything to do with it.
Pretty much. Somethings are going to be the same, they’re just that obvious, the sky is blue, water is wet, and we should deport illegal immigrants. But a lot of p25 goes well beyond that.
The person i was talking to about it said that he doesn’t want Project 2025 put in place, but also voted Trump and (as you said) said Trump “doesn’t have anything to do with that”.
When I went to talk to them again after the election, he had either deleted his account or blocked me after I ask about Trump appointing many involved with Project 2025.
i am guessing this would the case on an average. thanks though
You were lied to, unfortunately. Project 2025 was always their plan, and as you’re seeing now, they’re going full steam ahead with it. The best thing you can do now is learn from this mistake. Don’t trust what politicians tell you they want, or tell you they’re doing; see for yourself what they’re actually doing.
By the way, you’re going to get responses from like 95% leftists since it’s lemmy. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong though.
What kind of a moron believes anything a politician says, especially a openly fascist cunt
Like 80% of the US apparently
What? Bro I voted for Harris lmao. I’m also a wannabe Canadian, don’t like this country.
The period is tripping everyone up lmao
I honestly need to know. From an actual Republican who believed trumps words
Fair lol. I try to type how I would speak so it’s meant to be a pause
I don’t know any republicans personally but I would not be surprised if, given a choice between admitting fault and feeling bad, or literally any other option including lying or violence, they won’t admit fault. If they weren’t emotionally stunted, they wouldn’t be conservatives.
This is why blaming conservatives or getting them to admit fault doesn’t work. It only makes them become more defensive and entrenched.
A better approach is to appeal to their victim complex. IE: Instead of “Trump is ruining this country and its your fault for voting for him!” try “Dude, Trump is screwing us! This isn’t the great America we were promised!” or some variation of that. Gotta use different tactics.
I’m not sure it’s possible to blame Trump rather than his voters when he literally promised to make most of these changes. It might be more effective to say that Trump was misled by Musk.
Yeah, you have to make them see you as a member of a shared in-group. That’s the most important thing to them (and many people, honestly. we’re all susceptible to tribalism and such)
Humans in general are very hesitant to admit that they were wrong. Cult members doubly so.
It’s so unfortunate too, because so many of our society’s current ills can literally be boiled down to “so and so refused to admit they were wrong”
Yeah I realized admitting fault is kind of a power move. You can just be like “oh! I was wrong. Woops” and what might have been a like hour long argument about some unimportant minutia instead just wraps up. Nothing bad happens.
I have literally stopped speaking to my parents over this and have put the ball in their court, telling them that all they need to do is re-evaluate their position about this one fucking guy and admit they were wrong.
And I guess they’re fine with just not speaking to their son instead.
You’re very unlikely to get a response from a Republican on Lemmy
I don’t expect them, either, but normal people might come in and share their experiences with Republicans.
Truth.
Some will call Lemmy an echo chamber. Personally, I don’t give a damn. Sharing platforms with far-right lunatics is a deeply unpleasant experience.
I don’t need dumbass opinions in any chamber I’m occupying, Republicans can stay gone for all I care
I like to fuck with em when I can. Keep the space hostile to them, it worked for punk bars it works for us.
Shout out to Turbohaüs in Montreal
I like to fuck with em when I can. Keep the space hostile to them, it worked for punk bars it works for us.
Heh come make a meme or 2 on [email protected] though I will admit it’s a tad less fun without actual conservatives to downvote, but it’s still fun lolol
I don’t mean to criticize what you’ve done with the place, but I do think it might’ve been interesting to have something that purported to be a sincere community for conservatives but that wasn’t moderated as a ‘safe space’ for them.
Keep the space hostile to them, it worked for punk bars it works for us.
That was a confusing URL
I do have to agree with that.
It would be one thing if we were debating different ways to solve health care, education, incarceration, mental health, homelessness, wealth inequality, or something else.
While I personally think the right is wrong in their solutions I’d be happy to debate them.
But the right isn’t talking about these issues or solutions for them. You can’t have a debate when you’re talking about two completely different things.
Not just different things, but whether those things even exist
Like, I’m all about debating the best approaches to fighting climate change. I’m not about debating whether it exists.
You can’t debate solutions when you disagree about what the problem is
Especially when they think your views are the problem.
Exluding intolerance doesn’t result in an echo chamber.
Truth
As much as I can understand your point, it’s a truth that if you can argue against your beliefs, you have a full understanding of both sides. You should be well versed in order to provide a solid understanding. Just as one side wants the other to hear reason, there has to be a common ground somewhere.
That’s fantastic advice. Every now and then you gotta check yourself. Those MAGA folks don’t know they’re brainwashed, and honestly, neither would any of us. Nobody is too smart for propaganda!
Oh great Garfield of the lasagna, share with us your wisdom.
But my government says so.
Those MAGA folks don’t know they’re brainwashed, and honestly, neither would any of us.
I challenge this line of reasoning. All that is required is asking the question “is that true?”, then attempting to answer that question. There are very few modern conservative talking points that cannot be riddled with holes via 10 min of googling. I understand that people of western society have had our attention robbed of us, but all that is required is a desire to know the truth. They don’t. They want to have an interesting story that triggers their emotions. I will not abide apologies for anyone still supporting the MAGA agenda.
Oh for sure. I did a deep dive into Fox News to try to understand where they were coming from and it’s all just blatant bullshit. And I honestly tried to find at least one valid argument that I probably wouldn’t agree with.
Just gotta check every now and then.
Understanding the other side doesn’t mean there will be a common ground. Understanding nazis doesn’t mean there is common ground to share with them.
Welllllllll, you’re probably right. I hope you’re right. But, just to be on the safe side of sane, please allow me to recommend this nicely-made retrospective about the 2001 film portraying the Wannsee conference, for your cerebral pleasure.
The problem is literally that people keep labeling anything slightly right of genderqueer marxist-lenninist a “nazi”. There’s plenty of common ground between what Lemmy considers a “Nazi” and actual Nazis.
Did you lived under a rock for the last two months??? The Republican are literally nazis. They are doing nazi salute at their rally, Deporting people to camp, Censuring scientific paper that disagree with them, Actively trying to genocide at least one group of person, dismantling law and order in the usa, Ect…
If you think we can have common ground with these people that say a lot about your political views… (And please “everything slightly right of genderqueer Marxist leninist” was absolutely pathetic. First its completely hypocrite, people using the word nazi is too much for you but the people you dont like are Communist? And further more … I mean yeah people who think we should prevent genderqueer people from existing are at the very least Nazi aligned "
We’re not talking about the politicians here, we’re talking about individuals in society who aren’t responsible for the things you point out. Normal people who visit Lemmy.
Nobody is calling anyone communist, it was used as an anchor point for the reference in the political spectrum. Hell, the word communist wasn’t even used, you’re putting words into my mouth.
The word “Nazi” has been devalued so much because of how easily the word is thrown around. It’s slapped onto anyone and everyone who doesn’t agree with wildly out of touch values commonly put forth on Lemmy.
Politics isn’t black and white. It’s not even a fucking spectrum. It’s a multi-thorned spider graph with an incredible number of facets surrounding everything from Employment, to Belief Systems, to Social Safety, and many other things. To immediately label anyone and everyone who doesn’t hit FULL FUCKING TILT on all of your issues a “Nazi” just means you’re not mature enough to have an adult conversation about the topic and that you’re living in a bubble of unreality.
We have more in common than we disagree on. The first step is not throwing a tantrum like a god damn child.
“What do you mean you arent forced into 2 sentences max and have to structure your thoughts ??2?”
More like “how do I make an account? I give up. Fucking immigrants ruining my signup process”.
reddit too though has the reputation of lacking conservatives… and theres google signin and alat
Even if you got a response it will likely not be genuine. They’d rather save face than say they were wrong.
And very unlikely to get a serious response about P2025. They just have no response
Don’t kid yourself, they’re here. Make sure they know they aren’t welcome.
I live surrounded by republicans and they are super happy with all the good things Trump is doing together with puppet master Musk. Everything that he said during his fake State of the Union was truth and proof of his many victories during the first 2 months of his presidency. I tried once to bring up how the tariffs are sales tax for Americans (making life even more unaffordable), because I thought that would be something nobody could disagree with, and weeks later I’m still getting shit about it. I am convinced that he could launch a nuke on a ‘lib city’ and most of the republicans would still applaud it. In a cult the leader is always right and is never to blame for the bad.
There’s a guy in the news at the moment who has started a GoFundMe for a legal defence for his wife who has been deported. Says he doesn’t regret his vote for Trump.
Complete non sequitur, but i knew someone about 20 years ago that referred to herself as Sara Tonin. Hope she’s doing ok.
It’s crazy. How many Democrats do you know that had Joe Biden profile pictures? I know people can’t tell their in a cult usually. But man they make it obvious most of the time.
I got into an argument with my dad a couple days ago about this exact thing.
I was bitching that despite being given unlimited power, Biden just fucked off and let the carion eaters have their way with the corpse of America. His response? “It’s all Biden’s fault.” He’s being sarcastic and thinks he’s making fun of maga, but he’s right. This shit is Biden’s fault. And Garland’s, and all the other bitches in Blue. He actually thinks I’m defending fucking TRUMP when i point out Dems fuckups. He goes on and on about how politics isn’t a team sport, but then he engages in fucking tribalism, just like the magats.
It’s infuriating.
He actually thinks I’m defending fucking TRUMP when i point out Dems fuckups.
Herein lies the biggest problem. We’ve taken up sides along the single line drawn for us, and are therefore blinded to the fact that this is a class war. You can say “it’s not red versus blue”, and get nods of agreement, and then in the next sentence, they’ll say shit like this, showing they don’t really get it.
It’s not left and right, it’s up and down.
yea it seems they are into this idea that manufacturing will come back in the united states. nevermind that the equity growth and low prices of goods these guys are enjoying are due to the united states not manufacturing things, getting things through trade while exporting intellectual property instead. nothing they are doing is going to bring down home prices. it’s objectively a misunderstanding of economics.
They don’t think Trump and Musk are doing anything wrong. When quizzed they’ll ask you to name anything they’ve done wrong.
Everything Trump and Musk are doing is guised in Libertarian and Conservative values.So nothing wrong has been done on their eyes.
If you go places like r/JordanPeterson (to ask) and r/Conservative to observe the media landscape - you’ll see that “The Woke” are wrong and have turned violent against Tesla. You’ll see Trump and Musk are thought of as doing great things.
That’s how they think. They’re not in the same media landscape as everyone else is.
I think it’s so funny that Republicans have found this magical loophole to excuse just about any action by just saying it’s woke. The second anything is called woke, it instantly must be destroyed and there’s no disputing it because it is just simply too woke. Shit at this point I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Trump said that zelensky and Ukraine has gone woke and they will send military aid to Russia to stop them
This administration is woke …
Fuck, that didn’t work.
That’s how they think. They’re not in the same media landscape as everyone else is.
This is literally the cause of all our issues. Fucking propagandists creating an alternate “reality” for Magoos to exist within where they are the good guys fighting the evil evil communist far left scum.
I can blame a Magoo for being so susceptible to hate filled ppropaganda, but I really REALLY fucking despise the propagandists with every fiber of my being. If there were ever a group of people that deserved a firing squad it would be those like Sean Hannity who know exactly what they’re doing…
But they also think you’re in an alternative reality because of “leftist reactionaries” over blowing things in the media. Some of them would probably go as far to say that “We need anti-propaganda laws against the left wing media”…
…the problem for the left is, the right wing “alternative facts, alternative media landscape” is unfortunately MORE REAL in a legal sense because they own SCOTUS, and SCOTUS want to institute Unitary Executive theory… Which is what they’re doing.
It’s a very clean sounding bunch of words for a kind of fascism.
Tell them research into women’s medical conditions (like endometrial cancer) is no longer allowed. I’d love to know how they’d spin that one as positive.
The problem is their spin isn’t designed to be positive or have mass appeal. It’s designed to create fervent followers who are desperate for something different and a sense they’re winning.
In your example I believe the response for them would be something along the lines of “Good, women shouldn’t be getting special treatment anyways - END DEI !!!”
Even though this means men are getting special treatment. Because research into prostrate cancer, for example, hasn’t been banned.
Yeah it’s crazy. What’s that line: To the privileged any attempt at equality is going to look like a loss of privilege.
Something like that. I’m pretty sure they just want to harm come to groups they’re prejudiced against. Even more insulting is I’m pretty sure the Trump administration has a lot of drink and drug related parties, Trump spent his youth in nightclubs, Musk is addicted to ketamine and Grimes mentioned them tripping on acod together.
So it’s debauchery at the top, austerity for everyone else. It’s a real let them eat cake they’re doing. Not serious or good people at all. Very little in the way of mprals or ethics, it’s all about power, privilege, politics, and personal gain.
When quizzed they’ll ask you to name anything they’ve done wrong.
Why is this a thing? I’ve seen that so many times. “Oh yeah, well name Trump’s indictments” as if they got a trump card.
And, well… uhh there’s a summary right here. What do they expect? Secret knowledge? As if pretending nobody knows that they are gives them leverage? I don’t understand.
They’ll say a mix of “He’s clearly not guilty because nothing stuck! Teflon Don!” and “You shouldn’t go after politicians personal lives” and “Sucks for you he’s President now! You’re just a sore loser.”
…that might make you mad, which they enjoy.
I asked my MAGA coworker whether he thought Trump broke the law in the hush money case, and his response was “she should have kept her trap shut”.
Edit: apparently the part in OP starting “From a Republican…” is not meant to imply that OP is a Republican. As it lacked a main verb, I assumed it was ultimately meant as a relative clause and misassigned it to “I”. Leaving this comment anyway but it doesn’t apply to OP.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this post, and I appreciate you noticing this trend.
But I’ve got to be honest: the writing was on the wall the whole time. Being in the Republican bubble doesn’t really change the fact that you only get here from a lack of critical thinking and a general susceptibility to propaganda. These are things that many people spend time and resources getting educated about. It’s hard to have sympathy when the whole country is now suffering because so many were so sure they knew better.
If I sound angry, I am. I do hope you take it constructively, but you also need to understand: most of the damage has already been done. It doesn’t really matter how you feel from here on out, because the deed (from voters) is done.
I voted for Harris lol, and that was because I thought she was the lesser of the two evils overall. I wish Michelle Obama ran for office.
Then how was it that you “believed Trump’s words”?
Reread the post, or remove the period
What period?
Edit: nm, got it. Period in OP.
I’m really digging the irony of this thread…
What?
You said you thought she was the lesser of two evils. I’m not sure how that is believing Trump’s words, as you said in the original post.
He was not believing Trump’s words, you’re misinterpreting his post
Ah, got it. Thanks.
I took the sentence “From a Republican…” as OP saying they were a Republican who had changed their view (since it isn’t really a full sentence… alas).
Wishful thinking, I guess.
Really, already 50%!?
Closer than you might think. 41%
The older ones are hearing stories of social security being canceled on people like them and they are getting nervous. My vehement Trump supporting co-workers are having trouble backing things he does. The cracks are small and slow but the confidence in their statements of support are getting weaker. I think some support is eroding, but it’s slow. It’s really going to have to affect them more directly for it to fully erode sadly. Though I think it will, the damage the right will inflict in the mean time will change this country for generations.
You can tell it’s hitting, every repub that was loud af about trump this trump that good idea this good idea that. The only thing I’ve heard lately is the CRT stuff that they just don’t understand because they’re unable to see anything from anyone else’s perspective and one of their buddies kids asked their parents about the racist comments they were making and if they were racist.
Wait till they officially start calling for a constitutional amendments and they suddenly start losing some of their own rights. But by then who knows what it’s gonna look like.
Well historically, that doesn’t really matter all that much. They just stop talking about it openly and continue to quietly support it and vote for it.
Trump knows that his supporters are going to turn on him eventually, which is why he’s working so hard to set up an infrastructure that can crush opposition without due process. He’s also testing the waters about ignoring court orders.
If the supreme court lets him use the AEA then that means the president can use war-time statutes without Congress needing to declare a war, which means that he’ll be able to use a different statute to deploy the military on US territory. At that point, US democracy is officially over.
I have one word:
Eggs.
“Shut up about eggs”
- Trump’s retweet
