I mean, there are two side of the argument.
Pragmatically, fleeing would save your life.
But ethically, it feels cowardly. (I’m not calling anyone a “coward”, its just how I internally feel about such an act, if I were the one doing it)
Whether you decide to fight or flee, I won’t judge you. Do what makes sense for you and your loved ones. This is a difficult decision. Don’t let Lemmy guilt trip you over it.
I have a family and kids that need me. I’ll support the resistance where I can, but I can’t fight on the front lines. I’m lucky I’m not a target of this administration yet, but if we go out and protest, we may become targets.
In recent years, my family has been getting our passports together and fulfilling requirements to get jobs in another country. If things get violent in my hometown, we can flee across the border. I’ll do whatever it takes to keep my family safe.
If I was alone and no one depended on me, I’d disappear into the resistance. Somewhere, there’s a cache of vintage World War II weapons that would love to fight Nazis again. But, I’m honestly not the gun nut type.
Whether to flee or fight isn’t a very useful distinction, I think. It’s a false dichotomy.
Fighting someone or fighting for something in a way that risks your life just isn’t a very smart way to fight. Obviously run when your life is at stake. When you’re safe, fight.
Never take any risks to improve the world, that’s how things are gonna get better!
Never take any risks to improve the world, that’s how things are gonna get better!
No, I don’t think I’d agree with that.
I always hated the “cowardly” argument.
Who gives a flying fuck what others think? Fuck that egotistical bullshit.
Do what you can to survive. That’s more important than worrying about how brave others think you are.
There is an argument to be made that fleeing anytime fascists threaten your democracy can maybe done once in a lifetime. If you happen to flee the American fascist regime to another country that collapse into fascism soon after, do you flee again? Do you finally stay and fight?
People should make these decisions for themselves and their families.
Who gives a flying fuck what others think? Fuck that egotistical bullshit.
Isn’t egoism kinda the opposite of caring about what others think?
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a place worth dying for would he nice
I think it is. Not in a nationalistic sense - we’ve done a lot of harms in the world. Maybe more harm than good, even. But there’s still a lot worth saving here. (USA)
If you just walk around and talk to people on the street, we’re still one of the most progressive people around, despite everything. The US is a melting pot, a country of immigrants, and therefore a fierce battleground for ideas and ideologies. Right now the fascists are in power, but that doesn’t make them the majority.
I really do think that if we get past this, we’ve got the “bones” to create something really great.
And that doesn’t even include American culture. Sure, there’s things I don’t like, but there are some really good parts, too.
We’re loud. Gregarious. We’ll strike up conversations with complete strangers. Most Americans are culturally curious, too - we like to try foods from other places, we’re fond of foreign movies and media, and we have a weird fascination with people who speak other languages (even though most of us only speak English).
Many of us see ourselves as citizens of the world, not just our own country. We like the idea of the US being a “global superhero” standing up for democracy and human rights. I know that’s mostly propaganda, and the real history of US intervention is more about maintaining global capitalism. But it doesn’t have to be that way. We could actually help the UN, defend Ukraine, defend Palestine, push for peace. The cultural groundwork is already there, we just need a more democratic system so that the will of the people is actually followed.
If you look at US history, you’ll see a lot of bad. That’s the nature of the two party system. But we have had some really good times, too. We have had leaders like John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and Jimmy Carter who have done a lot of good. And that’s just presidents, we’ve also had activists and leaders fighting for what’s right throughout our whole history.
They didn’t spring up from nowhere. Those people have always been here, and they’re just as “American” as the bad ones. In a sense there are two "America"s. There always have been. And, as in every generation, it’s worth fighting for.
I’m not American but I totally agree with you. You guys might be at a low point right now, and the flawed system can be demoralising, but yours is still a country to be proud of. Heck, I’m proud of your country for some things.
Thanks!
I also feel like I might as well fight. I’m single and I don’t have a family (or not really - they’re on the other side and pretty fanatical about it). And I have more to lose than others do. More reason to be angry.
Well said!
I’m actually inspired. We need more of this!
“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz:
It’s our civic duty to make our country better.
Some people may need to move because because they aren’t safe here right now.
Some people need to be removed, one way or another.
It’s a very valid question and I think it comes down to an individual’s situation and circumstances. Not many can afford to actually leave or have family, friends, other ties to their home that they cannot emotionally afford to leave. Others struggle in how they can support efforts to fight for their rights or simply don’t have the physical or emotional reserves to make such a fight. I think the only truly ethically irresponsible answer would be to do the opposite that you are able and willing to do. I could never judge someone for leaving or for staying; it’s not really a mark of their character.
I’ve spent my whole life fighting for progressivism and my right to exist as a trans immigrant. My partner and I have been preparing to leave for a year. We’re personally done, see y’all on the other side
I hope you thrive on the other side!
I have two multi-racial disabled family members I care for. Even if I could leave the country, they couldn’t - very few nations allow the disabled to immigrate.
I’m here till the fight is done.
I have thought about emigrating after I get my bachelor’s, but I don’t think I will.
My family has been here for generations. Why should I have to leave when the reactionaries are the ones that suck? Besides, where would I go? Ultimately, nowhere can guarantee safety from the rise of authoritarianism and climate change.
Canada and Scandinavia will probably weather climate change alright, but they’ll have instability on their doorstep, especially if mass migration becomes a thing. Iceland? New Zealand? Switzerland? Probably all decent choices, to be honest.
I could also become a mountain man out a remote northern wilderness, living as self-sufficiently as possible while working remotely via satellite internet. Or, I could stay where I am and try and do as much good as possible, whatever that looks like.
Eventually you’ll run out of places to run to.
True, but if you die, you won’t be doing much running anymore anyway.
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stay. you will feel like shit when things go down and you are on the other side of the world doing nothing. it’s pussy shit.
It’s pussy shit, sure, but you only get one life. You don’t get another chance. You may feel like shit for leaving, but you’re alive and not in a prison. Which, if you ask me, I’d rather feel bad than be dead.
The original post did not mention fear of political persecution. I think that’s a different situation.
It’s a paradox – for the individual it’s better to leave, but migration en masse would be unsustainable both for the source country and for the recipient country. You simply cannot fit the whole of a country like Somalia into a country like Denmark. This is why I personally am an advocate of foreign aid, and that includes political.
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American Resistance? Just give Eggs pls. Thanks
Giving us eggs would just be used to make the current administration look better.
“See? We brought egg prices down just like we promised! Take that, biden!”
In the meantime, you could try alternative plant based eggs, like Just Egg.
To me, nationality is just a roll of the dice. You shouldn’t have to stay somewhere just because you were born there. You wanna leave? By all means, go have your life’s adventure.
And immigration should be widely supported in terms of higher ethical standards. Countries who make it difficult for people seeking to find a comfortable place to live is more immoral than a person seeking a new home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6tSqGCfoCI (I think some people are using this video in bad faith but the main message still stands)
I would flee if I could. Its not like the current stuff came and it was like hey im going to start fighting. We have been trying to change course and despite this its been going in the wrong direction. I mean will fight to the last but if my back was not against a wall I would be gone.
This is apparently what the US wants. My family is seriously looking into moving to a different country. We don’t want to be stuck in the new modern nazi party country.
