I mean, there are two side of the argument.

Pragmatically, fleeing would save your life.

But ethically, it feels cowardly. (I’m not calling anyone a “coward”, its just how I internally feel about such an act, if I were the one doing it)

  • @[email protected]
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    1 month ago

    The US is a massive place. Yes the federal govt can suck but state and local governments are where you see the real day to day effects like roads, local businesses, utilities and parks.

    Sit in on a meeting (a lot of stuff is streamed thanks to covid). Get to know the people in office in your area and what they stand for. If you want make your voice heard however you choose and give them some perspective on how an upcoming decision effects you. You can vote wisely and build a community with them from the bottom up.

    You can have a surprising level of influence just by reminding people that voters exist and care enough to give input now and then.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 month ago

    It’s a paradox – for the individual it’s better to leave, but migration en masse would be unsustainable both for the source country and for the recipient country. You simply cannot fit the whole of a country like Somalia into a country like Denmark. This is why I personally am an advocate of foreign aid, and that includes political.

  • @[email protected]
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    91 month ago

    This is apparently what the US wants. My family is seriously looking into moving to a different country. We don’t want to be stuck in the new modern nazi party country.

  • socsa
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    61 month ago

    America will bring down the entire western world. There is no option but to fight.

    • @[email protected]
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      21 month ago

      Is the “Western world” even worth fighting for? Who is included in it? More importantly, who is excluded?

  • @[email protected]
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    91 month ago

    Stay and fight for it. Because what happens if and when shit goes south wherever your new home is? Just keep running?

  • @[email protected]
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    91 month ago

    Imagine someone keeps breaking into your house and shitting on your pillow. Do you move out and find a new house, or do you grab a baseball bat and beat the shit bandits ass?

    Both are valid options with positive and negative consequences. Which path we choose is largely determined by the value we personally place on our things and spaces. We tend to value our homes and families more, so it’s easier to choose the bat. But, it’s the exact same choice when your country goes sideways (or any difficult decision, really).

    Ask yourself; How valuable is the country, to you? How valuable is your role in its society, to you? How valuable is it that you stand up for your beliefs, to you? If you place no value on your country, then move on and feel good about taking care of yourself. If you value your country a lot, then stand and fight to the end. No one on the internet can answer these questions for you, and there is no right or wrong choice unless you decide there is.

    • @[email protected]
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      21 month ago

      If it’s the police that keep breaking in and shitting on your pillow it would be best to move to a different town.

      • @[email protected]
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        11 month ago

        Makes no difference if the little shit is a pig or a bastard, if something you value and care about is threatened, fucking fight for it. When they have bigger guns than you, all that means is its time to get creative.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 month ago

    For me it’s a mix of different factors. Is there a place where I am better equipped to fight for what I believe in? Where I can be more effective in creating the world I want to live in? Maybe even a place from which I can more actively advocate and fight for the future I want for the place I just left?

    I come from a family of refugees, immigrants and political prisoners. My dad fled his country with his family in the 70s, my mum’s parents did the same in the 50s. Others didn’t leave their homes, some survived, others did not. Every single one of my 19 cousins can call at least two countries their home.

    I just left the US 5 weeks ago. I was a trans immigrant with a disabled, trans wife and an EU passport. Yes, part of me wants to fight the continuous fascist power grab happening right now in the US, which has become my home, but I’d be in a very precarious situation where just keeping myself safe enough to fight another day would occupy a lot of my capacities. Getting myself arrested and (best case) deported, wouldn’t really be helpful. Returning to my country of origin allows me to fight the same trends and politics from a significantly more secure position. It allows me to financially support US organizations I believe in, in ways I couldn’t while living there myself. And it’s not like the same people aren’t trying to achieve the same goals with varying success all across Europe.

    But when we moved back here, I also decided that this would be it. This is where I am taking my stand and where I will fight for my future with all means necessary. Be that against internal threats or external ones. Not because this place or it’s people is somehow more important to me based on the coincidence of my birth, but because there is no place where I personally have more resources, better support and a stronger starting position. Moving somewhere else to avoid the conflict would leave me with fewer resources and less ability to stand up for my beliefs.

    I don’t think there is anything cowardly about fleeing your country when you’re not safe there. Being an immigrant, let alone a refugee is really fucking hard sometimes. Leaving your home and everything and everyone you’ve ever known behind, especially if you do so without knowing if you’ll ever be able to return, can be incredibly traumatic. Starting over in a new place, even under the best circumstances, is scary, exhausting and often deeply isolating. We all have different priorities, strengths, weaknesses, needs and capacities and only you can decide based on those, what the right move is for you. Don’t let someone who hasn’t risked their life while staying tell you you are a coward for leaving or someone who hasn’t ever left their home tell you you’re stupid for staying.

  • @[email protected]
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    21 month ago

    Don’t run away unless it makes you stronger because of it. Once something has been gained, never yield it without a purpose or a strategy - even if that ends up being a bad decision it was at least yours to make.

    It is a difficult endeavor to gain new ground; it is nigh impossible to fully recover that which has been lost.

    After you have ceded all your land and yielded every advantage, where will you seek shelter and from what will you find strength?

  • tate
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    241 month ago

    I’m just so grateful that so many great scientists fled nazi germany. Also that those who stayed behind (this is controversial and not known for sure) hindered and delayed Germany’s nuclear weapons program.

  • cobysev
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    221 month ago

    This depends on a lot of factors. If you’re part of a targeted demographic due to race, gender, religion, etc., then it might be safer to flee before you draw attention to yourself.

    If you’re not a targeted demographic, then it might be best to stick around and stand up for your fellow citizens. But this could also lump you in with the targeted demographic and might eventually lead to your own persecution, so it’s a risky choice.

    Either way, I still advocate for standing up to any oppression or persecution going on in your home country. No one should ever lose their home to dictators and/or fascists.

    This is actually how a lot of states get divided politically. People see a place as a “red state” or a “blue state” and decide to either avoid them or move away if their political ideology doesn’t line up. But that just further entrenches the area into a political leaning. By sticking around and advocating for human rights and better community and respect, you can help prevent the splitting of communities and stop divisive concepts like fascism from forming.

    • @[email protected]
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      71 month ago

      I’m autistic and trying to figure out if autism is an at-risk minority group. It doesn’t help that I was extremely vocal on Reddit about how much I hate Trump and Musk. I deleted my account, but Reddit is now a fascist platform and would likely turn over my posts and email address to this administration without a second thought.

      I’m not sure what to do. I’m not sure if I could even leave at all, with my debilitating anxiety and trauma.

  • @[email protected]
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    61 month ago

    Generally, I feel like it depends on how viable it seems to fix. Is this the same issue that people marched about 50+ years ago?

    Specific elephant in the room, what possible fix within 2-4 decades is there when the right has most of the keys including a stacked supreme court?

    Personally, I can’t really fight or leave. I am nowhere close to anything politically relevant… I have no transportation, income, or ID/passport etc. I am a shut-in with untreated health issues. I’m just letting the days go by.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 month ago

    While you are staying, your productivity is fueling the economy, and the taxes you pay go to the government you dislike. If you flee, that’s a big economic difference you’re making over the years. I guess if you fight symbolically but non-pragmatically and get arrested, they have to feed you and house you in a prison which will cost a little extra, but compared to your non-productivity that’s just a small bonus. Fleeing also means you get to proactively contribute to competitors and reward them for being a better place to live, which in a way doubles your economic impact. There’s a reason the Berlin wall was built and North Korea executes 3 generations of the families of defectors. People are valuable, and they can’t afford to lose too many of them.

    On the other hand, if your threshold for fleeing is too low, there are no competitors to support, because every country has their issues, and some may be at a risk of the same developments as the country you’re fleeing from, making it a pointless exercise. And your loved ones could be essentially hostages that can be used to make you stay.

    So it kind of depends, but at least the cowardice argument seems pointless to me. Pragmatic small-scale effectiveness tends to beat symbolic perfectionism at making an impact.