• @[email protected]
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    183 months ago

    The bombing is worse, but using signal instead of official communication channels is still really fucking serious. They want to plan and commit war crimes and avoid any responsibility for it by trying to keep it from ever getting under public scrutiny.

  • @[email protected]
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    223 months ago

    They are bombing Yemen, because the houthis are attacking our boats. Transportation ships. Never fuck with US international commerce.

  • @[email protected]
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    23 months ago

    Houthis are the only international actor acting in open military opposition to the genocide in Gaza. They are doing their best to enforce a shipping blockade pending a cessation of Israeli war crimes. The US obviously wants the genocide to continue, as well as all shipping trade through the area.

  • I Cast Fist
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    203 months ago

    One way to look at it: Yemen’s current conflict is a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Put it another way, it’s their Vietnam

  • @[email protected]
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    423 months ago

    Because it is controlled by the Houthis, Islamist terrorists threatening global trade, overthrowing a quasi-friendly government and REINSTITUTING SLAVERY.

    • @[email protected]
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      143 months ago

      They’re not threatening global trade, they’re fulfilling their obligation under international law to prevent genocide by blocking ships of countries that are aiding genocide.

    • @[email protected]
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      143 months ago

      Houthis did not reinstate slavery. The “legitimate” Yemeni government that the Houthis are rebelling against reinstituted slavery

            • @[email protected]
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              113 months ago

              Why do you assume that the US gov is more trustworthy than the Houthis? After all the horrible shit the US gov has done what will it take for you to stop believing it when it tells you that it’s the good guy and the people it’s fighting are the bad guys.

              • @[email protected]
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                43 months ago

                First of all, the State Department document is just one of a variety of reports detailing the Houthi reintroduction of slavery.

                Second of all, the fact you can’t actually attack the contents of the report and solely argue I shouldn’t believe it because you, personally, hate America undermines your argument.

                Third, rape and slavery are not pasttimes in America, as they are in Houthi controlled Yemen.

                • @[email protected]
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                  73 months ago

                  It’s not because I personally hate America, the US has been helping israel commit a genocide for over a year, apparently that isn’t enough for you to question their statements but it is more than enough for me

        • @[email protected]
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          From the US State Department report:

          Media reports referencing muhamasheen activists noted that while social castes and slavery were abolished in the 1960s, tribal justice systems reinforced historical patterns of discrimination. The most recent estimated number of victims of modern slavery in country remained the 2018 report by Walk Free, an NGO focused on ending modern slavery. Walk Free estimated there were 85,000 victims of modern slavery in the country, or 3.1 percent of the population, but that due to the impossibility of conducting surveys under conflict, data likely underestimated the problem. This broad category included forced labor and debt bondage, human trafficking, and forced and early marriage.

          This is the Walk Free report mentioned, it’s referencing modern-day slavery and how vulnerable the population of Yemen is, the main being political instability. That same article shows Saudi Arabia as having over 4 times per capita more modern day slaves.

          The only other article that mentions Slavery under the Houthis is Al-Awsat which is a state propaganda newspaper working at the behest of the Saudi Royal Family.

          There is no mention of slavery in the 2024 HRW Report Or 2023 Amnesty Report

          The Saudi puppet government that did institute slavery are what the Houthis fought and won against, and continue to face a US-Saudi genocide because of it. It’d certainly help to reduce modern day slavery if the entire population of Yemen wasn’t facing a genocide.

          Quotes

          Guterres put the crisis in stark perspective, emphasizing the near complete lack of security for the Yemeni people. More than 22 million people out of a total population of 28 million are in need of humanitarian aid and protection. Eighteen million people lack reliable access to food; 8.4 million people “do not know how they will obtain their next meal.”

          Besides Saudi Arabia, the coalition attacking Yemen includes the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, Kuwait and Bahrain. Qatar was part of the coalition but is no longer.

          Based on the information available to it using open sources, YDP reports that two-thirds of the coalition’s bombing attacks have been against non-military and unknown targets. The coalition isn’t accidentally attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure – it’s doing it deliberately.

          The air and naval blockade, in effect since March 2015, “is essentially using the threat of starvation as a bargaining tool and an instrument of war,” according to the UN panel of experts on Yemen.

          The coalition’s genocide in Yemen would not be possible without the complicity of the U.S. This has been a bipartisan presidential effort, covering both the Obama and Trump administrations.

          U.S. arms are being used to kill Yemenis and destroy their country. In 2016, well after the coalition began its genocidal assault on Yemen, four of the top five recipients of U.S. arms sales were members of the coalition.

          The U.S. has also provided the coalition with logistical support, including mid-air refueling, targeting advice and support, intelligence, expedited munitions resupply and maintenance.

          As of February 2018, according to the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, the coalition had killed 6,000 people in airstrikes and wounded nearly 10,000 more.

          Yet, according to the OHCHR report, these counts are conservative. Tens of thousands of Yemenis have also died from causes related to the war. According to Save the Children, an estimated 85,000 children under five may have died since 2015, with more than 50,000 child deaths in 2017 alone from hunger and related causes.

          US complicity in the Saudi-led genocide in Yemen spans Obama, Trump administrations

    • @[email protected]
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      83 months ago

      What lead them to be on position to be able to do such a thing?

      Who helped to stabilise the previous gov & infrastructure (hospitals) … and stopped overnight destabilising the country early pre-covid?

      • Oniononon
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        23 months ago

        its something that would benefit russia so it was either russia or us

      • @[email protected]
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        73 months ago

        I don’t know, but I presume the answer is us.

        But that doesn’t mean it is at all reasonable to just let them shoot at our boats and, I reiterate, REINSTITUTE SLAVERY.

          • @[email protected]
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            Not everyone’s boats, just the ones of countries facilitating genocide, as they are obligated to under international law. They’re not touching Chinese boats, Iranian boats, Turkish boats, etc.

            • @[email protected]
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              They are targeting indiscriminately. You might hear otherwise from their statements, but the reality is they don’t seem to have capacity to distinguish

              Edit: this has happened numerous times and there is plenty of evidence. Sorry it’s your heroes commiting atrocities

            • @[email protected]
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              63 months ago

              Boats marked with a specific country are not strictly captained, crewed, or even owned by individuals from that country.

              • @[email protected]
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                93 months ago

                They aren’t targeting boats based on their flags, nor their captain, nor their crew, nor their ownership, but based on their connection to Israel.

    • @[email protected]
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      193 months ago

      They overthrew Gaddafi when he was the only thing preventing slavery from returning, and the allies of the West now have open slave markets in Libya.

    • @[email protected]
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      The United States government just sold over 200 people, without trial, into slavery in El Salvador. And the US explicitly allows slavery as part of its own prison system. The US has a large number of legal slaves.

      • @[email protected]
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        113 months ago

        Yes, and how does that justify anything? I don’t understand this logic at all, the US being bad doesn’t make the Houthi slavers good. Slavery is wrong regardless of who does it.

        • @[email protected]
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          23 months ago

          It doesn’t justify anything. What it does do is point out the absurdity of arguing that the Huthis deserved to be bombed due to slavery. If they deserve to be bombed, so do we.

      • @[email protected]
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        183 months ago

        I don’t think people understand just how fucking MASSIVE that bullshit is. Any credibility that the US had in human rights is long gone.

        What turn is doing is what the original filibusters did prior to the civil war. Basically considering chattel slavery such an important part of their ‘liberty’ ideal that they wanted to spread it to places where slavery had been abolished. Like the carribbean and Central America.

    • @[email protected]
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      63 months ago

      The houthis aren’t exactly the best representatives of the movement but still, this issue would be better solved by stopping arms shipments to israel and pushing them to a ceasefire towards a permanent peace. The houthis have shown that they will stop there attacks when the bombs stop dropping on gaza with this last ceasefire.

      These strikes don’t do shit besides hardening the antagonism against the west in Yemen. Ask Saudi Arabia, you can’t take out the houthis with bombs. This is just a way for trump to flex his arms and act like a tough guy.

      • @[email protected]
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        63 months ago

        I do not trust murderous terrorist slavers to keep their word. And even if I did, the mere fact that there are attacking our people is more than justification enough to blow them to Hell.

        • @[email protected]
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          103 months ago

          That doesn’t solve the issue, you blow up one terrorist and five civilians then the brothers/fathers of those five civilians become terrorists. The only thing blowing them up does, besides making the leaders and the people of the u.s. feel tough, is enrich the weapons industry.

          We bombed Afghanistan for more then a decade and the taliban still control Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia bombed the houthis for years and they now control Yemen, Israel has leveled gaza and hamas is still in control.

          YOU CANT BOMB AWAY TERRORISTS.

            • @[email protected]
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              93 months ago

              No, I’m proposing that we push our client state Israel to stop bombing gaza so the attacks will stop. That’s the only way to stop them from attacking us, because again, bombing them won’t stop them, it’ll just fuel further conflict.

              Also we arent being attacked, no one in u.s. territory has been harmed, ships in a war zone are being attacked. Are you proposing that we blow the hell out of anyone that killed an american in a war zone? Because Israel has killed American citizens in its war on gaza, so has hamas, should we just carpet bomb the whole area to show we mean business?

              • @[email protected]
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                23 months ago

                First of all, that comparison is bullshit and you know it. The Houthis are purposefully attacking American citizens abroad.

                Second of all, I disagree that destroying their capabilities to attack would accomplish nothing and I have no sympathy for genocidal, rape happy slaver terrorists, so you aren’t tugging on my heartstrings by talking about carpet bombings.

                Thirdly, as I mentioned, they’re genocidal slaver terrorists. So I do not trust them.

                Fourth, this is why any politician supported by Lemmy is obviously going to fail. You have no conception of what normal people think is acceptable. For example: the average American does not hear about Americans being attacked abroad by terrorists who commit rape en mass, support genocide and have reintroduced slavery and think, “We should give these people what they want.”

                • @[email protected]
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                  83 months ago

                  Explain to me how Israel blowing up a food aid convoy is different then the houthis attacking merchant ships.

                  oh but that was an accident, they didn’t know the truck with there logo that reported there location to the idf was an aid truck. That’s not there stated policy to blow up aid trucks.

                  Israel has implemented a full blockade of Gaza since the ceasefire ended. So if an American tried to drive an aid truck across the Gaza border, Israel would blow it up. That’s currently just a threat, and they haven’t done that, but the houthis haven’t attacked a ship since the ceasefire, they only threatened to which is what prompted this strike.

                  Are all Yemeni rape happy slavery terrorists? Because these bombings are pretty indiscriminate, a majority of the people are civilians. This latest strike was on an apartment building, not some secret houthi military base. They killed a couple terrorist leaders that will be easily replaced, while killing substantially more civilians.

                  the average American does not hear about Americans being attacked abroad by terrorists who commit rape en mass, support genocide and have reintroduced slavery and think “we should give these people what they want”

                  All of those descriptors except for the slavery one apply to israel and half of Americans give them unequivocal support.

                  This isn’t just giving them what they want, the large majority of the world wants a ceasefire in gaza, look at the UN votes. If everyone in the world supports reducing pollution you don’t turn that around and say north Korea and the taliban want to reduce pollution, and we can’t let them get anything they want so we should pollute more. That’s the height of reactionary, oppositional politics that destroys any progress and solidarity.

  • @[email protected]
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    1453 months ago

    Are you actually asking?

    The Houthi’s are an Iranian controlled terrorist organization that have been attacking commercial shipping in the Red Sea since November 2023.

    The Houthis have sunk two vessels and killed four crew members, forcing a lot of shipping to Europe to be diverted around the South of Africa.

    The US and allies have been fighting the Iranian-backed Houthis for over a decade, this is just a recent resurgence following the war in Israel.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67614911.amp

    • @[email protected]
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      433 months ago

      Sure bro.

      That justified blowing up the apartment building the target’s girlfriend lived in.

      Because it doesn’t just make more Houthis every time.

      • @[email protected]
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        123 months ago

        That may be true, but there is one consistent lesson we can learn from US history.

        Don’t. Touch. The. Boats.

          • finder
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            23 months ago

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

            Iran did something similar in the late 80’s. Iran began to mine the Persian Gulf, international waters, as part of the Iran-Iraq war threatening oil shipments passing through.

            An Iranian mine struck an American warship escorting an oil tanker. Prompting the Americans to bomb the fuck out of the Iranian navy. Don’t want to be bombed? Don’t attack American warships in international shipping lanes.

            Especially with this racist and blood thirsty regime that doesn’t give a fuck about silly things like “civilian casualties”.

      • @[email protected]
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        393 months ago

        I never said the attack itself was justified. I only answered the question.

        A more targeted strike was possible, and it’s reprehensible that one was not chosen.

        The target himself was a legal target even by the most strict interpretation of armed conflict international law.

    • @[email protected]
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      The Houthi’s are enforcing their ban on ships headed to or from Israel to enter Yemen’s water territory. They did this as a sanction on Israel because Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people. When the US and European countries started bombing Yemen for enforcing their law, they also banned US and some European ships from entering their waters. During the ceasefire they lifted the blockade, and since Israel ended the ceasefire they started banning ships again.

      • @[email protected]
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        83 months ago

        If the Houthi’s are going to enact a shipping ban then I assume they’re willing to accept the consequences of enforcing the ban.

        • @[email protected]
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          53 months ago

          If the US and UK are going to support genocide, then I assume they are willing to accept the consequences

      • @[email protected]
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        This is simply false.

        The Houthis are not a state. There are a rebel faction in a civil war in Yemen.

        Even if it were the Yemen government banning ships from it’s waters it’s can’t do that by international law. They don’t own the whole strait.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab-el-Mandeb

        Lastly, a UN resolution passed that outlaws this behavior.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2722

        • @[email protected]
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          This is like calling the US now a rebel faction in the civil war in the British Empire.

          We won.

          America is its own country.

          Ansarallah won. The conquered basically all of the territory except for a few towns held by another faction with whom Ansarrallah made peace with.

          All of this while under continuous air attacks from Saudi Arabia w/ US intelligence, refueling and weapons. Meanwhile the US supported a complete blockade, including food, into a country that at that time imported 90% of its food.

          • @[email protected]
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            63 months ago

            Once they are recognized by the UN, they can legally act as the legitimate government of Yemen.

              • @[email protected]
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                No, they are the world legislative body.
                Of course no country can be forced to follow the UN’s laws, but they are what we call “international law”.
                If the UN don’t recognize you, you may be the only government in your country, and you may even be the legitimate one, nationally speaking.
                But you won’t be internationally recognized as legally in charge of things like shipping lanes.

                • OBJECTION!
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                  53 months ago

                  So that means that for a country to be legitimate, it has to be accepted by every member of the security council? You’re not a legitimate country unless Russia, China, and the US all like you enough? That’s BS.

    • @[email protected]
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      233 months ago

      Yep and it’s much easier and cheaper just to send in a bunch of drones that end up killing a few hundred innocents than to send in special forces that find the target with precision. And that in turn would be a lot easier than to stop actively funding regional genocide and try to calm the situation down diplomatically.

    • @[email protected]
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      153 months ago

      It’s to make us forget about the “group chat” (see how familiar and nice it sounds too, group chat). Damage control.

      Someone else can probably explain better than me why the “group chat” is not just a group chat but a massive abuse and illegal thing to do.

      • @[email protected]
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        The Federal Records Act was violated several times due to the disappearing messages feature of Signal they were utilizing for their plans. Jeff Goldberg took screenshots of the messages before they were automatically deleted when all Federal Records are legally required to be preserved for archiving and may not be destroyed except under specific parameters that they obviously did not follow.

        https://www.ed.gov/about/ed-overview/required-notices/federal-records-act

        Also, by using Signal, which is a secure end to end encrypted messenger, the vulnerability that is built into the desktop sync feature where messages aren’t locally encrypted can result in enemy and adversarial nation states collecting these messages due to them being stored on an infected device which can compromise the mission and risk lives.

        They could also have their accounts and subsequently their messages hacked with their information widely publicly available to hackers.

        https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/hegseth-waltz-gabbard-private-data-and-passwords-of-senior-u-s-security-officials-found-online-a-14221f90-e5c2-48e5-bc63-10b705521fb7

        • @[email protected]
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          123 months ago

          Firendly reminder that this was the real issue with buttery males/but her emails: that Hillary Clinton was using a private email server to circumvent these laws.

          And every other US government employee that knowingly emailed to or from that server is also complicit.

          Yet another legitimate problem tossed out with the bathwater because it got associated with the maga crowd. Very handy, that.

          • @[email protected]
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            163 months ago

            Point of order. These laws were written because of Mrs. Clinton’s server. She wasn’t circumventing shit, because the law hadn’t caught up to technology, technically it still hasn’t, but that’s a whole other kettle of fish.

            The reason it got “forgotten” is that after they wasted years and tons of money trying to find something to charge her with, they came up empty handed, since it really was just a mistake.

            • @[email protected]
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              63 months ago

              This is bullshit. I’m old enough to remember when the Bush administration setting up their own email servers to avoid these very same exact laws was a big issue for the Democratic Party.

              • @[email protected]
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                They updated the laws since then. The Clinton administration was the one that passed the laws that W Bush was flirting with breaking. As far as I remember, they also didn’t actually break the established law, they just got close enough that the Dems started screaming about their precious rules and norms.

                HWBush didn’t actually have much in the way of laws binding him, but his administration didn’t bother with the Internet. Whitehouse.com was a porn site until '97-'98

    • @[email protected]
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      153 months ago

      The Houthis are a tribe. The majority (though not all) represented tribe within the government of Ansarrallah, a government that formed during and won the civil war when Saudi Arabia tried to steal Yemen.

      Calling them Houthis is racist and makes as much sense as calling Americans ‘Kennedys’

      They have not been attacking shipping. They have been enforcing a naval blockade of a country committing genocide, something that is a legal requirement under international law. When Israel was “abiding” (or abiding as much as Israel ever abides) during the peace treaty, Ansarrallah dropped their blockade. If this is about shipping, the easiest way to stop this would be to stop applying arms to a state engaged in ethnic cleansing.

      America has never been at war with Yemen. We got sucked into supplying Intel and support and weapons to Saudi Arabia under Obama because of all three weapons purchases from Saudi Arabia.

      Finally, Iran has done very little in support of Ansarallah, in comparison to other countries that are majority Shia.

      Calling Ansarrallah Iranian controlled is about as accurate as calling Israel American-Controlled. It’s just another racist way to try to justify the murder of civilians. You know, the unjustifiable except to fascists like the person I’m responding to.

      • @[email protected]
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        13 months ago

        How do we feel about the Houthis killing civilians on trade vessels not bound for Israel?

        • @[email protected]
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          43 months ago

          I wouldn’t know, since a single tribe (a good amount whom aren’t members of the government) hasn’t done that.

          • @[email protected]
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            13 months ago

            Oh cool. OK, how do we feel about the armed combatants from Yemen repeatedly attacking civilian trade ships not connected to Israel?

    • @[email protected]
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      813 months ago

      You know, I don’t question what you have said; however, this group chat has put many asterisks on this whole situation. I believe one person in that chat has said something to the effect of: “remember the narrative, Biden’s fault and Iran backed.” Makes me less sure about the whole story and motivations.

      • @[email protected]
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        183 months ago

        It’s always going to be Bidens fault, and Obama’s fault, and Clinton’s fault. Whether it’s terrorism or egg prices or the economy or <insert whatever issue here>

        But that doesn’t excuse Iran’s behavior either.

          • e$tGyr#J2pqM8v
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            Exactly, also Houthi attacks on ships flared up when Israel started the Palestinian-genocide. Of course no party is innocent, but people always blaming Iran is rather bizarre.

              • e$tGyr#J2pqM8v
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                I have no doubt in my mind that they do.

                The question is, is it the fault of “evil Iran”. Or is it multiple parties fighting eachother, and they all share blame. Obviously Iran sides with the Shia minority in Yemen. What do you suggest they do, leave the entire Middle East to the US/Israel/Saudis? If the response here is “evil Iran”, then we’re missing the bigger picture. The Saudis, the US, Israel, Iran, everyone backs all sorts of groups wether it’s in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan or Yemen. The frame of Iran as an evil agrssor country and for instance Israel as an innocent victim is in fact, rather bizarre. And why do we NEVER talk about the Saudis? Perhaps because it happens to be our ally and we like their oil? Oh no but Iran is evil, so they are and always have to remain our enemy. They all share blame for the mess that’s been created in the Middle East. As long as the frame is “the enemy is evil” we’ll never find common ground, move beyond all these proxy wars. Of course Iran is also to blame, but Iran is also protecting legitimate Shia interests.

                • @[email protected]
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                  13 months ago

                  The “funny” thing is always when Saudi and Irani diplomats at some point go “hey at the moment this whole proxy war thing really isnt working for us, could we please work together for a while?” and then most of the pointless killing and attacking in the middle east stops for a while.

                  And you realize once again that they are not actually enemies to death or anything like that. For them, it’s just a “power struggle” for influence in the region.

                • @[email protected]
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                  the Saudis are the problem

                  their oil, IS the problem

                  their strangle hold on their religion is why they are fighting with Iran. It’s the Troubles on a much higher scale.

                  stupid rich assholes fighting over the religion while ganging up to throw shots at the mutual ancient enemy religion of the region

      • Echo Dot
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        163 months ago

        And Vance said something to the effect of, he didn’t want to do it because it would benefit Europe more than it would benefit America.

  • @[email protected]
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    233 months ago

    I’ve heard it called Operation Amazon Prime, which is pretty hilarious. But only like 10% of global trade even goes by this area, even less of you’re just considered direct US trade. Combine that with the context from that Signal chat and it’s clear they bombed Yemen just because Trump wants to.

    • @[email protected]
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      153 months ago

      Launching a $2 million dollar missile and crushing a few children to death should also be sensational.

      Unfortunately here in America that’s just another Saturday.

      • @[email protected]
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        43 months ago

        It’s not like there hasn’t been (and there isn’t currently) reporting that’s critical of US foreign policy but this kind of foreign policy has been going on continually for our entire lifetimes (and before) There have been protests and complaints. But in the end the vast majority of us care more about our daily lives than some kid in Yemen being bombed, especially when it feels like we can’t do anything about it. So we move on.

        Obviously it’s not right but as a society we’ve all decided we just don’t care enough to do anything about it.

  • @[email protected]
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    163 months ago

    Because bombing the Houthis for terrorism or attacking Gulf states/western interests has been the status quo for over a decade.

    • @[email protected]
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      93 months ago

      You’re shipping? As in you have any legitimate borders or control of the red sea? No? Just an imperial bootlicker then?

      • @[email protected]
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        173 months ago

        they have been attacking shipping long before that cease fire

        but they claim their attacks are in line with Israel’s war in Gaza. Truth is this is just a proxy war with Iran, Yemen is just stuck as the battlefield.

    • @[email protected]
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      103 months ago

      Sooooo corporations should actually pay more in taxes and the ultra wealthy that benefit from our subsidizing their global police force should too.

      It’s pretty disgusting that they on the one hand tell us our gigantic military budget is needed to protect global shipping lanes but also we need to reduce taxes on the ultra wealthy and their corporations too…